McFadden

[fanfootballtn 33]

Why?

[pimptastic69 0]

I'll admit I only watched him play a few games, but I wasn't all that impressed. What I was impressed with didn't really translate well to the NFL.

 

I'm prolly in the minority/uninformed, but I'll let him pass.

[fanfootballtn 33]

This guy had 200-300 yards rushing games in SEC! By far thats the toughest conference in college. He ran a 4.3 at the combine. I would pick him in the 2nd round if it was a keeper league but i dont know if the raiders are going to use him as much as the vikes did AD.

 

I'll admit I only watched him play a few games, but I wasn't all that impressed. What I was impressed with didn't really translate well to the NFL.

 

I'm prolly in the minority/uninformed, but I'll let him pass.

[pimptastic69 0]

This guy had 200-300 yards rushing games in SEC! By far thats the toughest conference in college. He ran a 4.3 at the combine. I would pick him in the 2nd round if it was a keeper league but i dont know if the raiders are going to use him as much as the vikes did AD.

 

Is there some type of breakdown as to how many yards were from a traditional offense, and not from that goofy QB spread offense he ran?

 

Michael Bennett was pretty fast too, but that didn't really pan out.

[Vikings4ever 500]

http://www.fftodayforums.com/forum/index.p...p;#entry3560457

[fanfootballtn 33]

Thanks for the link. I looked at the topics b4 posting this because you know how so called "FF Geeks" are. DONT POST TOPICS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED!

 

 

http://www.fftodayforums.com/forum/index.p...p;#entry3560457

[pimptastic69 0]

Thanks for the link. I looked at the topics b4 posting this because you know how so called "FF Geeks" are. DONT POST TOPICS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED!

 

Look closely at were the link brought you. Those comments are from an actual NFL player.

[fanfootballtn 33]

Forgive me for looking so stupid but who's the NFL player? Wildman? Googled him and came up with comments from this site only.

 

Look closely at were the link brought you. Those comments are from an actual NFL player.

[Vikings4ever 500]

Forgive me for looking so stupid but who's the NFL player? Wildman? Googled him and came up with comments from this site only.

Wildman's not (although he is a respected contributor to this site).

 

scherber's a rookie WR.

[Me_2006 14]

Wow. Wildman killed it in that thread.

 

 

 

 

honestly, my thoughts on McFadden (as an SEC guy) was that he was really, really fun to watch in college, has explosive speed, but simply lacks the patience, instincts, body control and power to be a useful every down NFL back. If he weren't riding the AD hype from last year, he wouldn't be going where he is in drafts. The same reservations following Reggie Bush that caused AD to fall last year are what has teams reaching for McFadden this year. There simply is no correlation and for me to read people in the mock chats saying stuff like "the next Peterson", "don't wanna miss the next AD" or "He's gonna be a beast like Peterson was" is just misguided when you compare the two and their styles. If we've learned anything from that monster in purple, it's that he should be considered the exception--not the rule.

[fanfootballtn 33]

Yes he did. The "arm tackling out of bounds" comment really set it off for me. He is right. He is one of those guys that a DB can ride him down whereas it takes more than that to bring down LT, AD, Barber, Steven Jackson, LJ or even Westbrook. Bush is the same way. Just grab him and he's falling.

 

 

Wow. Wildman killed it in that thread.

honestly, my thoughts on McFadden (as an SEC guy) was that he was really, really fun to watch in college, has explosive speed, but simply lacks the patience, instincts, body control and power to be a useful every down NFL back. If he weren't riding the AD hype from last year, he wouldn't be going where he is in drafts. The same reservations following Reggie Bush that caused AD to fall last year are what has teams reaching for McFadden this year. There simply is no correlation and for me to read people in the mock chats saying stuff like "the next Peterson", "don't wanna miss the next AD" or "He's gonna be a beast like Peterson was" is just misguided when you compare the two and their styles. If we've learned anything from that monster in purple, it's that he should be considered the exception--not the rule.

[FantasyKing 4]

In the fantasy world, I think the year Peterson had last year is going to lead to McFadden being drafted way too early in most leagues.

[famousb 11]

This guy had 200-300 yards rushing games in SEC! By far thats the toughest conference in college. He ran a 4.3 at the combine. I would pick him in the 2nd round if it was a keeper league but i dont know if the raiders are going to use him as much as the vikes did AD.

something i looked at before - sure McDaddy had some huge games against SEC opponents, but go back and look what FJones did in those same games as the #2 RB on the team. He was doing the same thing as McDaddy, which just tells me that either Ark had those Ds just completed flustered, or that the Ds weren't really that good... what it doesn't tell me is that McDaddy is all that great... JMHO.

[The Moz 69]

I honestly think McFadden ends up being what pepple though Bush was!! he has amazing speed and is stronger than given credit for. All he needs to do is add a little weight to his frames and get it from around 208 - 210 to 220 - 225. I know Wildman think he will suck - but I doubt it would be the first time he was off on a guy!!

 

I am as pumped for DMac this season as I was for R.Moss last year! I really think he explodes out da gate on Monday night against Denver.

[Wildman 0]

McFadden is going to be exciting to watch even if it is just due to his home run potential.

 

It's been very quiet out in Raider land about him thus far. Once August hits, it's going to be cool to see how much time he gets in the preseason and how he looks. Will his techniques have gotten better? Will he run through defenses like a hot knife through butter? Or will he be on the bench by opening day and come in to the offense on predictable situations., etc..

[jgcrawfish 232]

I honestly think McFadden ends up being what pepple though Bush was!! he has amazing speed and is stronger than given credit for. All he needs to do is add a little weight to his frames and get it from around 208 - 210 to 220 - 225. I know Wildman think he will suck - but I doubt it would be the first time he was off on a guy!!

 

I am as pumped for DMac this season as I was for R.Moss last year! I really think he explodes out da gate on Monday night against Denver.

 

Keep it up Moz, please!!! Need McFadden to go #1, i don't want to be looking at him at the #2 spot.

[The Moz 69]

Keep it up Moz, please!!! Need McFadden to go #1, i don't want to be looking at him at the #2 spot.

 

 

Well if it was me I would take McFadden 1 overall and wouldn't think twice. others here tout Stewart all day an I think Stewart could be solid I just think McFadden is a special talent but more think he is a bust. The season will tell I guess.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Well if it was me I would take McFadden 1 overall and wouldn't think twice. others here tout Stewart all day an I think Stewart could be solid I just think McFadden is a special talent but more think he is a bust. The season will tell I guess.

 

Can't agree here Moz, i just don't see it. I watched footage of him and Chris Johnson and actually came away more impressed with Johnson. I know the competition he faced was considerably less than what McFadden faced, but what I saw of him was better in my opinion. Even on his long runs McFadden goes down too easily. For a guy of his size he doesn't run w/ the power I expected him to. But are obviously fast, but I see more natural and instinctive moves from Johnson than I do from McFadden. I definitely have both Stewart and Mendenhall as the better backs, although I don't think I have McFadden dropped as low as Waldman did in the RSP. But I have him in the tier behind those two.

[The Moz 69]

Can't agree here Moz, i just don't see it. I watched footage of him and Chris Johnson and actually came away more impressed with Johnson. I know the competition he faced was considerably less than what McFadden faced, but what I saw of him was better in my opinion. Even on his long runs McFadden goes down too easily. For a guy of his size he doesn't run w/ the power I expected him to. But are obviously fast, but I see more natural and instinctive moves from Johnson than I do from McFadden. I definitely have both Stewart and Mendenhall as the better backs, although I don't think I have McFadden dropped as low as Waldman did in the RSP. But I have him in the tier behind those two.

 

Watch some live game footage not only highlights. McFadden is stronger than people think and folks looks too hard at a few highlights. I know McFadden is no highly thought of right now but I think he is going to be a stud we will see. FYI - Mendenhall had a few great games and couldn't even beat our Pierre Thomas - IMO mendy is the back who ends up Busting.

[phlegmish 4]

Watch some live game footage not only highlights. McFadden is stronger than people think and folks looks too hard at a few highlights. I know McFadden is no highly thought of right now but I think he is going to be a stud we will see. FYI - Mendenhall had a few great games and couldn't even beat our Pierre Thomas - IMO mendy is the back who ends up Busting.

 

It's not the 33/195 against a crappy Bama team that concerns us.....it's the 17/43 against Auburn we think we'll see more often that puts McF a tier behind Mendehall and Stewart. I'd put him in the same class as Forte and Johnson personally but 5th, not 3rd.

[jgcrawfish 232]

It's not the 33/195 against a crappy Bama team that concerns us.....it's the 17/43 against Auburn we think we'll see more often that puts McF a tier behind Mendehall and Stewart. I'd put him in the same class as Forte and Johnson personally but 5th, not 3rd.

 

I've been debating on this as well. I like what I've seen of Forte, and actually have him ahead of McFadden as well. I'm torn over Johnson over McFadden. I also have Kevin Smith in that mix, but something about him doesn't have me convinced. For a guy who's being taking 4th in a lot of rookie drafts, my gut tells me that I'd rather Forte or Johnson over him. I'm hoping Johnson falls to me at the 10th spot but not holding my breath there. I'd feel very happy if I walked out the draft with Stewart or Mendenhall and Johnson (have the #2 and #10 picks).

[Four More Beers 0]

You guys that have convinced yourselves that McFadden is nothing but speed are high. I just watched a random highlight reel on YouTube and 3 of the first 4 runs involved him running over/through people. His stiff-arm was on full display throughout the reel and even more on display were the sick moves he makes while running through traffic. You know, 2 or 3 moves in a little tiny space that most backs wouldn't even find. The guy has that elusive quality known as "vision" in spades.

 

He's the best back drafted this year by a wide margin.

[The Moz 69]

You guys that have convinced yourselves that McFadden is nothing but speed are high. I just watched a random highlight reel on YouTube and 3 of the first 4 runs involved him running over/through people. His stiff-arm was on full display throughout the reel and even more on display were the sick moves he makes while running through traffic. You know, 2 or 3 moves in a little tiny space that most backs wouldn't even find. The guy has that elusive quality known as "vision" in spades.

 

He's the best back drafted this year by a wide margin.

 

Folks see he has skinny calves , he is fast and see many highlight reels of him jujst running through huge holes , see him going down a few times afte the first hit -- and claim he is bust. Folks that really watch him through an entire game usually leave thinking he is a damn great back. Many though Eric Dickerson might suck due to skinny legs , upright style , no real power ... how did his career en up being?

[phlegmish 4]

I've been debating on this as well. I like what I've seen of Forte, and actually have him ahead of McFadden as well. I'm torn over Johnson over McFadden. I also have Kevin Smith in that mix, but something about him doesn't have me convinced. For a guy who's being taking 4th in a lot of rookie drafts, my gut tells me that I'd rather Forte or Johnson over him. I'm hoping Johnson falls to me at the 10th spot but not holding my breath there. I'd feel very happy if I walked out the draft with Stewart or Mendenhall and Johnson (have the #2 and #10 picks).

 

I go 12th :-( price of winning I gladly accept but would LOVE a shot at the Stew/Mendenhall/Forte trio. #1 in my league will likely be MCF so i've been offering a mix of players and picks to get to 2/3/4. I'm not holdling my breath......

[phlegmish 4]

Folks see he has skinny calves , he is fast and see many highlight reels of him jujst running through huge holes , see him going down a few times afte the first hit -- and claim he is bust. Folks that really watch him through an entire game usually leave thinking he is a damn great back. Many though Eric Dickerson might suck due to skinny legs , upright style , no real power ... how did his career en up being?

 

comparing him to someone in Canton already????

 

statistically sepaking he has a better chance of being Rashaan Salaam..

[jgcrawfish 232]

You guys that have convinced yourselves that McFadden is nothing but speed are high. I just watched a random highlight reel on YouTube and 3 of the first 4 runs involved him running over/through people. His stiff-arm was on full display throughout the reel and even more on display were the sick moves he makes while running through traffic. You know, 2 or 3 moves in a little tiny space that most backs wouldn't even find. The guy has that elusive quality known as "vision" in spades.

 

He's the best back drafted this year by a wide margin.

 

Everybody looks good on YouTube when your best runs are plucked off and created in a pretty package little highlight real. I'm not sure which McFadden hype video you're watching, but chances are the stiff arm you're seeing is when he's 10 yrds downfield and has a DB coming up on him. It's pretty easy to look strong when you've got a full head of steam and haven't been touched for 10 yrds. I've watched several of those and haven't really seen one yet where i was impressed with anything other than his speed and the Arkansas blocking.

[Me_2006 14]

You guys that have convinced yourselves that McFadden is nothing but speed are high. I just watched a random highlight reel on YouTube and 3 of the first 4 runs involved him running over/through people. His stiff-arm was on full display throughout the reel and even more on display were the sick moves he makes while running through traffic. You know, 2 or 3 moves in a little tiny space that most backs wouldn't even find. The guy has that elusive quality known as "vision" in spades.

 

He's the best back drafted this year by a wide margin.

Based on that analysis, one would think Jerious Norwood is a HOF'er too.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs9HH3wywkc

[jgcrawfish 232]

Based on that analysis, one would think Jerious Norwood is a HOF'er too.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs9HH3wywkc

 

You mean he's not???

 

FWIW...I'm more impressed with the Jerious highlight reel than I am with the McFadden ones

 

Question...how come every highlight montage has to have the thug music w/ it? Wouldn't you think more highly of some guy that had all his highlights to Celine Dion "My Heart Will Go On" or something???

[The Moz 69]

OKay which one of you all wants a sig bet! 2 month bet - I think McFadden finishes as a top 15 standard PPR scoring RB. any takers

[Wildman 0]

I'll take a season-long bet on it this way...

 

McFadden makes the top 15 in a PPR and you win and I'll eat humble pie with a sig

McFadden makes the top 25 in a PPR and you win I'll simply link to this post in my sig

If McFadden isn't in the top 25, you link to this post in your sig

If McFadden isn't in the top 30 in a PPR you eat humble pie with a sig

 

Deal?

[The Moz 69]

I'll take a season-long bet on it this way...

 

McFadden makes the top 15 in a PPR and you win and I'll eat humble pie with a sig

McFadden makes the top 25 in a PPR and you win I'll simply link to this post in my sig

If McFadden isn't in the top 25, you link to this post in your sig

If McFadden isn't in the top 30 in a PPR you eat humble pie with a sig

 

Deal?

 

How about this along with the sig.

 

Just doing the McFadden being top 15 PPR bet.

 

 

If McFadden is top 15 you give me your scouting thing for 09 -- If he isn't I buy it as I would obviously need to after that

[famousb 11]

You mean he's not???

 

FWIW...I'm more impressed with the Jerious highlight reel than I am with the McFadden ones

 

Question...how come every highlight montage has to have the thug music w/ it? Wouldn't you think more highly of some guy that had all his highlights to Celine Dion "My Heart Will Go On" or something???

you know how i know you're ghey? cause you can actually name a Celine Dion song...

 

 

 

and FWIW, i think McDaddy will be avg coming out of the gate. Da Raiders ran the ball well last year, but they've also lost some OL over the offseason which is gonna hurt. add in that McDaddy is splitting w/ Fargas and MBush to at least some degree and i think his non-PPR value really plummets. PPR though he could be good if they do use him in the slot fairly often AND if he gels w/ Jamungus...

[jgcrawfish 232]

OKay which one of you all wants a sig bet! 2 month bet - I think McFadden finishes as a top 15 standard PPR scoring RB. any takers

 

you had me up until the PPR part. i don't think he's even that talented as a pass catching RB, but I think Jamarcus is going to depend on him a lot. I'd be willing to bet that Fargas gets 20% more touches.

[Wildman 0]

How about this along with the sig.

 

Just doing the McFadden being top 15 PPR bet.

If McFadden is top 15 you give me your scouting thing for 09 -- If he isn't I buy it as I would obviously need to after that

 

Deal!

[VaTerp 0]

Moz, I understand you're really high on McFadden and he could very well turn out to be all you think he will and people like me will be wrong but I think you're missing some key points here.

 

1) You keep saying that people need to watch game film and not highlights but I think you are the one who needs to rewatch some of the tape on Run DMC. He does not run w/ power. When he is in the open field and running at almost top speed, yes he will lower his shoulder on a DB and he has a decent stiff arm But that is not what scouts call running with power. He displays little to no LEG DRIVE and DOES NOT GAIN YARDS AFTER CONTACT. Those things are more indicative of running with power and those are 2 major factors in predicting RB success in the NFL. To this point he has not displayed that.

 

2) Another key factor pointed out by Wildman and NFL networks Mike Mayock are that McFadden does not run behind his pads or with leverage. Another indicator that he does not run with power. He has great size and upper body strength but his lack of lower body strength combined with the fact that he does play behind his pads is again indicative of his lack of NFL RB power.

 

3) Based on what I've seen and what many scouts say McFadden does not display an elite level at any of the following traits. Vision, patience, or catching the ball out of the backfield. I hear the Raiders plans to use him like Bush and you say he will be what people thought Bush was but I do not see that type of RB. The upright running style doesnt bother me at all, its all of the other stuff I just mentioned.

 

4) I think bust is an overused word. I hear what your saying but I disagree with the way your throwing the term out there. I like McFadden and think he is superbly talented and fun to watch. I just dont think he will live up to the expectations he has after his college career and the expectations that FF owners have for him this season. That doesnt mean he will be a "bust" just not as complete and dynamic a RB as some believe.

 

5) Like Wildman has stated numerous times most people on my side of this argument believe McFadden is a good RB but there are many deficiencies in his game right now. Can he improve on those things, yes. But to this point he has not shown them and IMO its hard for some guys who have had so much success like him to realize there are major things they needs to work on and commit to doing it.

 

I have read at least 3 scouts who have all said the same thing. When they sat down and went over the tape they were shocked at how poorly McFadden graded out. I still think he will have his moments and a productive NFL career but I think he will be dissapointing to some. I think of Herschel Walker in that sense. Great college career with a solid but not great Pro Career.

 

Maybe Im proven wrong but as far as this year is concerned I doubt I'll get him in any league. He will likely go way too high for me and I think Fargas will give you as good if not better production for a much cheaper price.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Moz, I understand you're really high on McFadden and he could very well turn out to be all you think he will and people like me will be wrong but I think you're missing some key points here.

 

1) You keep saying that people need to watch game film and not highlights but I think you are the one who needs to rewatch some of the tape on Run DMC. He does not run w/ power. When he is in the open field and running at almost top speed, yes he will lower his shoulder on a DB and he has a decent stiff arm But that is not what scouts call running with power. He displays little to no LEG DRIVE and DOES NOT GAIN YARDS AFTER CONTACT. Those things are more indicative of running with power and those are 2 major factors in predicting RB success in the NFL. To this point he has not displayed that.

 

2) Another key factor pointed out by Wildman and NFL networks Mike Mayock are that McFadden does not run behind his pads or with leverage. Another indicator that he does not run with power. He has great size and upper body strength but his lack of lower body strength combined with the fact that he does play behind his pads is again indicative of his lack of NFL RB power.

 

3) Based on what I've seen and what many scouts say McFadden does not display an elite level at any of the following traits. Vision, patience, or catching the ball out of the backfield. I hear the Raiders plans to use him like Bush and you say he will be what people thought Bush was but I do not see that type of RB. The upright running style doesnt bother me at all, its all of the other stuff I just mentioned.

 

4) I think bust is an overused word. I hear what your saying but I disagree with the way your throwing the term out there. I like McFadden and think he is superbly talented and fun to watch. I just dont think he will live up to the expectations he has after his college career and the expectations that FF owners have for him this season. That doesnt mean he will be a "bust" just not as complete and dynamic a RB as some believe.

 

5) Like Wildman has stated numerous times most people on my side of this argument believe McFadden is a good RB but there are many deficiencies in his game right now. Can he improve on those things, yes. But to this point he has not shown them and IMO its hard for some guys who have had so much success like him to realize there are major things they needs to work on and commit to doing it.

 

I have read at least 3 scouts who have all said the same thing. When they sat down and went over the tape they were shocked at how poorly McFadden graded out. I still think he will have his moments and a productive NFL career but I think he will be dissapointing to some. I think of Herschel Walker in that sense. Great college career with a solid but not great Pro Career.

 

Maybe Im proven wrong but as far as this year is concerned I doubt I'll get him in any league. He will likely go way too high for me and I think Fargas will give you as good if not better production for a much cheaper price.

 

Bingo, Bravo and Outstanding

[9-Route 0]

an angle i've never heard discussed or asked of mcfadden during all this, especially regarding his lack of running toughness:

 

was he saving himself? was he preserving himself from critical injury to preserve/lower the risk of losing the future nfl life, $$$$, etc?

 

for example, we've come to know AD is a warrior, a guy who runs like it is his last play on every play, and has no issues with contact and sacrificing his body during any and every play. but we've seen even great players (jerry rice, marvin harrison, barry sanders, emmitt smith) learn to get tackled and manuever themselves during tackles to deflect the brunt of blows and endure the least amount of punishment possible to preserve their bodies and extend longevity.

 

this guy has a large family, loads of talent, and a $$$$$ payday on the horizon. maybe he is mum on the fact that he was simply making sure he could live to see it. [there arent many willis mcgahee's around: he was a surefire top5, dropped to 23, and had a remarkable return to form following a tremendous injury his final collegiate game; very lucky and fortunate.] i even recall draft day, as mcfadden approaches commissioner goodell on the stage, the commish says, "congratulations, whats does this mean for you and your family", perhaps an allusion.

 

something outside the box.

[PackYourNut 47]

Put McFadden behind that Minny O-Line and he would EXPLODE... In Raider land, not so much.

 

Talent wise there are scouts who like DMac more then AD, because AD has injury history. It's hard to compare the two because their situations are different.

 

Both have inexperienced QB's

Both have decent, but not great WR

AD has great o-line / Dmac does not

AD has a great D to get him the ball back more / DMac does not

 

We could go on and on.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Put McFadden behind that Minny O-Line and he would EXPLODE... In Raider land, not so much.

 

Talent wise there are scouts who like DMac more then AD, because AD has injury history. It's hard to compare the two because their situations are different.

 

Both have inexperienced QB's

Both have decent, but not great WR

AD has great o-line / Dmac does not

AD has a great D to get him the ball back more / DMac does not

 

We could go on and on.

 

I wouldn't trust those talent scouts. IMO there are very few similarities between ADP and McFadden. Peterson has extraordinary balance for a guy his size, great moves, great acceleration, great power and great speed. physically he's about as complete a back as you'll find. he's not a good blocker and he has had some injury issues. What NFL back doesn't miss a couple of games here and there? McFadden is about speed, but nothing else I see is instinctive. And he doesn't run with power, until he's through the primary line and into the secondary. I'm not saying he wouldn't do well behind the Minny line, hell, I might do fairly well behind those monsters. I'm saying pound for pound, skill for skill, ADP >>>>>>>>>>>> McFadden.

[Wildman 0]

an anlge i've never heard discussed or asked of mcfadden during all this, especially regarding his lack of running toughness:

 

was he saving himself? was he preserving himself from critical injury to preserve/lower the risk of losing the future nfl life, $$$$, etc?

 

for example, we've come to know AD is a warrior, a guy who runs like it is his last play on every play, and has no issues with contact and sacrificing his body during any and every play. but we've seen even great players (jerry rice, marvin harrison, barry sanders, emmitt smith) learn to get tackled and manuever themselves during tackles to deflect the brunt of blows and endure the least amount of punishment possible to preserve their bodies and exted longevity.

 

this guy has a large family, loads of talent, and a $$$$$ payday on the horizon. maybe he is mum on the fact that he was simply making sure he could live to see it. [there arent many willis mcgahee's around: he was a surefire top5, dropped to 23, and had a remarkable return to form following a tremendous injury his final collegiate game; very lucky and fortunate.] i even recall draft day, as mcfadden approaches commissioner goodell on the stage, the commish says, "congratulations, whats does this mean for you and your family", perhaps an allusion.

 

something outside the box.

 

It's an interesting idea, but I think most people in collision sports preach the idea that you can't play NOT to get hurt or you will get hurt. You have to be aggressive. The way he runs, I strongly believe he's a tough kid. That's not the issue. The issue is poor techniques that keep him from being a consistent force between the tackles at the next level where he can wear down a defense with 4-6 yards on carries for the tough yards. He's not that type of back and people say he's like AD, which is so inaccurate it's almost annoying.