Santonio Holmes or Calvin Johnson?

[martyj13 1]

After many mocks I get to the point where many times I have a choice between Santonio Holmes or Calvin Johnson.

 

Any advice?

[gocolts 300]

Calvin Johnson, and it ain't even close.

[Law 220]

Hmmm, one plays on a team that was pass happy and will now run more and the other plays on a team that was run-run-run and now will be more balanced, if not pass happy.

 

One plays along side another rising stud (who is in a contract year) and the other is the stud along side a somewhat fading stud.

 

Hmmmm...

 

Calvin: 67 catchs, 1036 yards, and 7 Tds

Santonio: 68 catches, 1095 yards, and 8 TDs

 

 

Obviously not even close.

[WhiteWonder 2,200]

i wont say its not even close but i will say the answer is Santonio Holmes.

 

calvin johnson has proven he is a freak of an athlete with a bad back. Holmes still has Ward to demand attention and has the better QB throwing to him.

 

ill take the 3rd yr WR who has already shown a little something.

[PackYourNut 47]

Both should be good... If you want to play it safe, Holmes. If you want HUGE upside, Calvin...

 

Megatron is the next Randy Moss and is physically superior to any defensive back he plays against, especially seeing how it will be the #2 DB. I fully expect double digit TD's this year from him.

 

IMO the upside for Calvin is 15-20 TD's with 1200+ yds.

[49ER MAN 0]

Calvin Johnson, and it ain't even close.

 

Based on what? Martz has left the building and I believe Detroit will try to be more of a running team this year. Johnson has more competition for numbers with Roy Williams than Holmes does with Ward. Holmes has gotten better and it wouldn't surprise me to see him bust out big time in year 3.

[gocolts 300]

Based on what? Martz has left the building and I believe Detroit will try to be more of a running team this year. Johnson has more competition for numbers with Roy Williams than Holmes does with Ward. Holmes has gotten better and it wouldn't surprise me to see him bust out big time in year 3.

♦♠♠♠Based on Big Ben. Based on how the Steelers flat out run the ball. Based on Johnson being the superior talent. Based on the Steelers will be more D and ball control and Detroit will constantly play from behind. Based on Megatron being the #1 on his team and Holmes being the #2 on his. I could go on all night. I find it rather amusing, and hope some guys in my league buy this shiat too, that folks think the Steelers are all of a sudden going to be throw throw throw. Ain't going to happen.

[Law 220]

♦♠♠♠Based on Big Ben. Based on how the Steelers flat out run the ball. Based on Johnson being the superior talent. Based on the Steelers will be more D and ball control and Detroit will constantly play from behind. Based on Megatron being the #1 on his team and Holmes being the #2 on his. I could go on all night. I find it rather amusing, and hope some guys in my league buy this shiat too, that folks think the Steelers are all of a sudden going to be throw throw throw. Ain't going to happen.

 

 

I find it rather amusing how far behind the times you really are.

[dreadlocks34 0]

Based on what? Martz has left the building and I believe Detroit will try to be more of a running team this year.

 

They have Tatum Bell and a checked past Kevin Smith at running back. They have Calvin Johnson and Roy Williams at receiver. I think I know which pair whose hands the football should be in.

[Cymark 0]

With Martz gone the Lions are going back to a more traditional 2 receiver set which means way more looks for Calvin Johnson. Shawn Mac and Furry stole tons of receptions last year in the Martz system....3 yard slants to 5 foot 8 receivers is what Martz loves. He really had no idea how to get Megatron involved last year and than after the back injury his season was totally derailed.

 

After seeing how Kitna targeted Calvin in the 1st preseason game I would look for him to bust out this year.

[Joey Gladstone 33]

To say this isn't even close is just straight short bus material.

 

It's extremely close. All I can say is Holmes is the more sure thing while Calvin has all the upside in the universe (on a lesser team).

[murf74 461]

♦♠♠♠Based on Big Ben. Based on how the Steelers flat out run the ball. Based on Johnson being the superior talent. Based on the Steelers will be more D and ball control and Detroit will constantly play from behind. Based on Megatron being the #1 on his team and Holmes being the #2 on his. I could go on all night. I find it rather amusing, and hope some guys in my league buy this shiat too, that folks think the Steelers are all of a sudden going to be throw throw throw. Ain't going to happen.

 

Your nuts, its a close call, very close.

 

But about the rest of your post, wow where do I start?

 

Ben 32 TDs / 11 INTs vs. Kitna 18 TDs / 20 INTs (oh yeah you would never want your WR to be on the receiving end of a pro bowl QB entering his prime)

 

Steelers struggled running the ball and could never grind out the clock as you speak unless they were playing the 49ers, etc. Did you not watch the last 8 games of the season? You know when the Steelers were mostly playing from behind?

 

Holmes is #2? Hmmmm OK. Did you just not watch the Steelers last season? And when did "Megatron" become the #1 WR on his team? What do you base this on?

 

Johnson having superior talent? Haven't seen that yet unless you want to count college.

 

Your post is soooo 2004 in regards to the Steelers.

 

Is there such thing as "most uninformed post of the year" award? If so I nominate you, do I have someone to second that motion?

[49ER MAN 0]

They have Tatum Bell and a checked past Kevin Smith at running back. They have Calvin Johnson and Roy Williams at receiver. I think I know which pair whose hands the football should be in.

 

Well, I don't disaagree with the above. From some of the things I've read this offseason, it sounds like Detroit wants to emphasize the run more than last year. We will see if this happens.

[Bgards79 0]

All I care about is that some of you guys stop referring to Calvin as "Megatron". Sounds really really lame.

[mr.shitty 0]

Johnson.

[Law 220]

Your nuts, its a close call, very close.

 

But about the rest of your post, wow where do I start?

 

Ben 32 TDs / 11 INTs vs. Kitna 18 TDs / 20 INTs (oh yeah you would never want your WR to be on the receiving end of a pro bowl QB entering his prime)

 

Steelers struggled running the ball and could never grind out the clock as you speak unless they were playing the 49ers, etc. Did you not watch the last 8 games of the season? You know when the Steelers were mostly playing from behind?

 

Holmes is #2? Hmmmm OK. Did you just not watch the Steelers last season? And when did "Megatron" become the #1 WR on his team? What do you base this on?

 

Johnson having superior talent? Haven't seen that yet unless you want to count college.

 

Your post is soooo 2004 in regards to the Steelers.

 

Is there such thing as "most uninformed post of the year" award? If so I nominate you, do I have someone to second that motion?

 

 

murf,

 

Like the effort, but I just considered the source and moved on. She's not worthy of your time.

[HenryChinaski 1]

If anyone has the edge - its Santonio Holmes.

 

Honestly, how can one justify taking Calvin Johnson higher than Santonio, when Santonio has proved himself in this league, while Calvin Johnson obviously has not.

 

Even when considering their upside potential, while I can see how high Calvin Johnson's is, I still feel like Santonio has just as huge of a ceiling - possibly even higher.

 

Maybe CJ will be a higher pick next year, if he finally proves his lofty draft status, but until then, I will go with the up and coming WR that's actually produced.

[gocolts 300]

Your nuts, its a close call, very close.

 

But about the rest of your post, wow where do I start?

 

Ben 32 TDs / 11 INTs vs. Kitna 18 TDs / 20 INTs (oh yeah you would never want your WR to be on the receiving end of a pro bowl QB entering his prime)

 

Steelers struggled running the ball and could never grind out the clock as you speak unless they were playing the 49ers, etc. Did you not watch the last 8 games of the season? You know when the Steelers were mostly playing from behind?

 

Holmes is #2? Hmmmm OK. Did you just not watch the Steelers last season? And when did "Megatron" become the #1 WR on his team? What do you base this on?

 

Johnson having superior talent? Haven't seen that yet unless you want to count college.

 

Your post is soooo 2004 in regards to the Steelers.

 

Is there such thing as "most uninformed post of the year" award? If so I nominate you, do I have someone to second that motion?

I guess we will see. I think your counter to my points is way off base. Sure Big Ben had the better year last year. Probably a career year. Just because all that stuff happened last doesn't mean it will this year. I bet the Steelers get back to running the ball and clock control now that they have their RB back. That is why they struggled so much in the run game. Plus, they have another talented RB waiting in the wings. Half a season of pass pass pass after they lost their star RB doesn't mean they are not going to try and get back to it. It's just an opinion and you don't have to like it.

 

Is there such thing as "most uninformed post of the year" award? If so I nominate you, do I have someone to second that motion?

Yeah, that's it. I have no clue.

[jgcrawfish 232]

I'm not sure anybody who posted here is right so far. Last year the steelers ranked #3 in rushing offense, they only had trouble after Willie went down, although they did have problems w/ finding the endzone with their running game. Nothing will change, the team did not have problems obviously in run-blocking to rank freakin #3 overall. Holmes benefits from having Ward on the other side and from the play action game because of the respect teams have to give to the Steelers rushing attack. Holmes is exceedingly talented but he's not Calvin talented. Holmes won't be the primary WR for the offense and is used as more of the long ball threat (as evidenced by his league leading YPC stat).

 

Calvin on the other hand is now in a traditional offense (not Martz-wacky throw to the little quick guy underneath crap) and is not only the redzone target, but also the possession AND the freakin deep ball receiver. His upside is the only one that can actually have Randy Moss/TO potential. Not to mention he has an uber-talented WR with nearly the same skill set (only not as much of it) across from him. As opposed to the Steelers, the Lions have no run blocking, and have no defense and WILL be playing from behind a lot.

 

I'm a Steelers homer, and to me this isn't even close. I'd take Calvin a round ahead of Holmes...and I really like Holmes.

[gocolts 300]

I'm not sure anybody who posted here is right so far. Last year the steelers ranked #3 in rushing offense, they only had trouble after Willie went down, although they did have problems w/ finding the endzone with their running game. Nothing will change, the team did not have problems obviously in run-blocking to rank freakin #3 overall. Holmes benefits from having Ward on the other side and from the play action game because of the respect teams have to give to the Steelers rushing attack. Holmes is exceedingly talented but he's not Calvin talented. Holmes won't be the primary WR for the offense and is used as more of the long ball threat (as evidenced by his league leading YPC stat).

 

Calvin on the other hand is now in a traditional offense (not Martz-wacky throw to the little quick guy underneath crap) and is not only the redzone target, but also the possession AND the freakin deep ball receiver. His upside is the only one that can actually have Randy Moss/TO potential. Not to mention he has an uber-talented WR with nearly the same skill set (only not as much of it) across from him. As opposed to the Steelers, the Lions have no run blocking, and have no defense and WILL be playing from behind a lot.

 

I'm a Steelers homer, and to me this isn't even close. I'd take Calvin a round ahead of Holmes...and I really like Holmes.

This is right on. I was obviously exaggerating some in my posts to make a point. You did it much better than I did.

[Ras66not99 0]

I guess we will see. I think your counter to my points is way off base. Sure Big Ben had the better year last year. Probably a career year. Just because all that stuff happened last doesn't mean it will this year. I bet the Steelers get back to running the ball and clock control now that they have their RB back. That is why they struggled so much in the run game. Plus, they have another talented RB waiting in the wings. Half a season of pass pass pass after they lost their star RB doesn't mean they are not going to try and get back to it. It's just an opinion and you don't have to like it.

Yeah, that's it. I have no clue.

You don't have to defend yourself here..... Pittsburgh is one of only 5 teams last year to run the ball more than they passed the ball last year.... Two idiots in my league keep thinking Pittsburgh is all of a sudden this pass happy juggernaut also because they had a few shootouts at the end of last year, but when you run the ball more than you pass the ball as a whole it really doesn't bode well...(in the fantasy world anyway)...Big Ben only had 3,100 yards passing last year and out of the 16 Qb's that attempted 400 or more passes last year only Jason Campbell had less yardage... I'll never knock Big Ben the guy is great, and If I was running a franchise there is only 3 guys I'd rather have than him running my team, but fantasy is about opportunity.... and I'm sure that offense probably could be a pass happy juggernaut, but the coaches mentality and team philosophy (is what it is) a pound it out smash mouth balanced offense...

 

As for the posters original question I think I would give the slight edge to Santonio Holmes if it was a re-draft for this year... I can see 70, 1,200 type stuff this year from Holmes he's a beast... with Calvin slightly less....long run obviously I like Calvin because he could/should be one of those 90-1400-12 guys when he fully adapts to the NFL... his ceiling is HIGH

[dynastybaby 0]

Ok, one has Roy Williams to deal with & one has an old possesion reciever in Hines Ward. One has a Pro Bowl QB & one has Kitna, one is coming into his third year (which has been proven over and over to be the pivitol year for WR's) & one is going into year 2 after not showing all that much year one. I think this is pretty easy guys, HOLMES! Johnson may one day be the "Next Randy Moss" but for now, he is going to still be the number 2 WR on his team. With Pitt having a more balanced offense, Holmes will have way more opportunities to shine. Who the hell is going to bite play action with Kevin Smith??

 

Holmes- 87 Rec 1298 yrds 10 TD

Johnson 76 Rec 1150 yrds 7 TD

 

IMO

[hitman29 0]

I have the 4th pick in the 5th round of a keep 4 league. This is the last year of the league, so this year is basically a redraft. I'm most likely going WR with the pick and will most likely have to choose between these two. I was leaning towards Johnson, but now I'm not sure. I figure they both should put up similar numbers this year, but I like Johnson since his ceiling seems to be higher. Tough call.

[Quickolas1 80]

in a re-draft, they're close so it's really personal preference

you could attach 1100/7 or 1200/8 to either of them

 

however for those who actually will be in the position to make this decision (i.e. not the steeler lovers posting their man-love for santonio), i would take a look at the receptions & yardage for last year's lion wrs. then look at the news sources saying mcdonald and furrey are vying for slot/3rd down wr and neither will probably have more than 40 receptions. there's a lot of catches and yards that will have to go to someone on a team that will not be in a position to ever run out of the clock.

[HenryChinaski 1]

in a re-draft, they're close so it's really personal preference

you could attach 1100/7 or 1200/8 to either of them

 

however for those who actually will be in the position to make this position (i.e. not the steeler lovers posting their man-love for santonio), i would take a look at the receptions & yardage for last year's lion wrs. then look at the news sources saying mcdonald and furrey are vying for slot/3rd down wr and neither will probably have more than 40 receptions. there's a lot of catches and yards that will have to go to someone on a team that will not be in a position to ever run out of the clock.

 

good post.

[jgcrawfish 232]

To me, bottom line that Detroit will have to throw more, and with an equal # of balls thrown to them, Calvin's ability will trump Holmes and he'll get more redzone opportunities. I'll admit they're fairly equal, but if one factors in that last year was Calvin's rookie year, and he had similar #'s to Santonio, I think he will come out above him this year. I think their receptions and yards will fairly equal, but Calvin will trump him on the TD front.

[TidesofWar 0]

♦♠♠♠Based on Big Ben. Based on how the Steelers flat out run the ball. Based on Johnson being the superior talent. Based on the Steelers will be more D and ball control and Detroit will constantly play from behind. Based on Megatron being the #1 on his team and Holmes being the #2 on his. I could go on all night. I find it rather amusing, and hope some guys in my league buy this shiat too, that folks think the Steelers are all of a sudden going to be throw throw throw. Ain't going to happen.

 

 

Yeah, Franco and Bleier are going to dominate this year

 

Actually, you may find the numbers in this article relevant to this thread............Steeler breakdown

[Law 220]

Yeah, Franco and Bleier are going to dominate this year

 

Actually, you may find the numbers in this article relevant to this thread............Steeler breakdown

 

 

Don't muddy up the waters of misinformation with actual numbers!

[ghouston 0]

Your nuts, its a close call, very close.

 

But about the rest of your post, wow where do I start?

 

Ben 32 TDs / 11 INTs vs. Kitna 18 TDs / 20 INTs (oh yeah you would never want your WR to be on the receiving end of a pro bowl QB entering his prime)

 

Steelers struggled running the ball and could never grind out the clock as you speak unless they were playing the 49ers, etc. Did you not watch the last 8 games of the season? You know when the Steelers were mostly playing from behind?

 

Holmes is #2? Hmmmm OK. Did you just not watch the Steelers last season? And when did "Megatron" become the #1 WR on his team? What do you base this on?

 

Johnson having superior talent? Haven't seen that yet unless you want to count college.

 

Your post is soooo 2004 in regards to the Steelers.

 

Is there such thing as "most uninformed post of the year" award? If so I nominate you, do I have someone to second that motion?

 

Seconded. Holmes is going to have a monster year.

[Ghost to the Post 2]

I hate Pittsburgh. But it is Holmes in a rout.

[Quickolas1 80]

it is Holmes in a rout.

 

really? megatron disagrees with you so far tonight

[swamp dog 0]

calvin.

 

not even remotely close.

 

are you kidding?

 

what are the people in this thread smoking?

[Pocket Pair Professor 0]

I just took both in my redraft today. I firmly believe Megatron and Bumble Bee will have 35 tds combined this season!

[ghouston 0]

calvin.

 

not even remotely close.

 

are you kidding?

 

what are the people in this thread smoking?

 

I've watched every single game that Holmes has played in. He's going to be a top 10 fantasy WR this year. Big Ben is a far superior QB than Kitna is, no contest. Does Johnson have better physical skills? Unquestionably. However, the Steelers' offense is much better than Detroit's. That will give Holmes many more TD chances.

 

From a purely fantasy standpoint, I'd draft Holmes over Johnson any day of the week. Just my $.02.

[murf74 461]

really? megatron disagrees with you so far tonight

 

Well, this weeks' preseason game did not separate the 2. Both had a 40 yarder.

 

Sometimes when a player is close as most agree.....I just rank the guy in the better offense, better team ahead of the other. After all it's about chances to score TDs. Pitt will have more chances on the opponents side of the field and score more TDs

[swamp dog 0]

I've watched every single game that Holmes has played in. He's going to be a top 10 fantasy WR this year. Big Ben is a far superior QB than Kitna is, no contest. Does Johnson have better physical skills? Unquestionably. However, the Steelers' offense is much better than Detroit's. That will give Holmes many more TD chances.

 

From a purely fantasy standpoint, I'd draft Holmes over Johnson any day of the week. Just my $.02.

 

if pitt is better than detroit, than from an ff perspective you should draft cj. detroit will be behind more, have to throw more, plus when they throw they're targeting cj a THE guy.

 

you're entitled to your opinion but let's bump this at the end of the year. if cj stays healthy he's going to the pro bowl. easily.

[mvgoatboy 0]

I got both in a NFL.com league after a trade and Reggie Wayne is my "1"... After reading this thread I think all 3 of my WRs can perform like 1's with Roethlisberger at QB, Gore, T.Jones, Mendenhall, B.Jackson at RB also Reggie Williams who should play good once back from his injury and Kellen Winslow at TE haha ... I wasn't even there for the live draft just changed the player rankings a bit before the draft

[ghouston 0]

if pitt is better than detroit, than from an ff perspective you should draft cj. detroit will be behind more, have to throw more, plus when they throw they're targeting cj a THE guy.

 

you're entitled to your opinion but let's bump this at the end of the year. if cj stays healthy he's going to the pro bowl. easily.

 

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. However, given that Kitna spends most of his time running for his life, just as Ben as has done in recent years(however, he makes some of his best plays while doing so), I like Holmes' chances for putting up numbers.

[swamp dog 0]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. However, given that Kitna spends most of his time running for his life, just as Ben as has done in recent years(however, he makes some of his best plays while doing so), I like Holmes' chances for putting up numbers.

 

true, but the lions have chucked martz's 7-drop system and are putting kitna in 3 and 5 drops. plus they have a fullback in there most of the time this year. these are changes worth noting.

 

one thing they've started doing with cj this year is throwing jump balls in his direction and just letting him go up and get them. because of this and the fact they'll throw to cj when most wrs wouldn't get a look in coverage, cj should get extra targets just on that reason alone.

 

just watching the condition cj's in, what he's looking like right now, how he's playing (knowing the play book and running great routes)...wow. yeah, i know it's preseason...but he looks like no other wr on planet earth out there.

[ghouston 0]

true, but the lions have chucked martz's 7-drop system and are putting kitna in 3 and 5 drops. plus they have a fullback in there most of the time this year. these are changes worth noting.

 

Granted. By the same token, given Roy Williams' proclivity for getting injured, if he isn't in there Johnson will be double-teamed all day. Eh, who knows what will happen this year. But, given my choice in a draft and both were available, I'd take Holmes. But, that's why they play the games.