PsychoBelichickFan 0 Posted November 30, 2009 "Ergo, Brady is not that valuable", I hope you mean in relation to Manning, Favre, this year? We'll see after tonight what's being said on this board. brady wins rings......he is not concerned with mvp stuff....unlike other stat padders like manning and favre with three mvps each and only one ring. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ras66not99 0 Posted November 30, 2009 I'm as unbiased as they come being a Browns fan... Peyton Manning is the MVP The term MOST VALUABLE PLAYER is overlooked a lot with the stats, in a lot of sports.... When the record and stats and all that jive is similar between players..... I like to remove that player off his team in my mind and wonder....???? Vikings were a pretty good squad last year, sure Favre has made them much better and is clearly in the discussion.... Brady he's my boy and has clearly made the Pats better than they were last season, but they did win 11 games without the guy last year, that's some great coaching over there..... Brees I believe is a very close 2nd to Peyton, cause the Saints, eh it wouldn't be that pretty if he got hurt, but they'd still be respectable.... Peyton I believe is in a class of his own in this part of the discussion.... This guy IS THE COLTS... he runs the show over there, shiat if I found out he called the defensive plays when he's on the sidelines it wouldn't shock me... without him they're 4-12 IMO... All these cats are deserving, but in my eyes Peyton is the MOST VALUABLE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,757 Posted November 30, 2009 I'm as unbiased as they come being a Browns fan... Peyton Manning is the MVP The term MOST VALUABLE PLAYER is overlooked a lot with the stats, in a lot of sports.... When the record and stats and all that jive is similar between players..... I like to remove that player off his team in my mind and wonder....???? Vikings were a pretty good squad last year, sure Favre has made them much better and is clearly in the discussion.... Brady he's my boy and has clearly made the Pats better than they were last season, but they did win 11 games without the guy last year, that's some great coaching over there..... Brees I believe is a very close 2nd to Peyton, cause the Saints, eh it wouldn't be that pretty if he got hurt, but they'd still be respectable.... Peyton I believe is in a class of his own in this part of the discussion.... This guy IS THE COLTS... he runs the show over there, shiat if I found out he called the defensive plays when he's on the sidelines it wouldn't shock me... without him they're 4-12 IMO... All these cats are deserving, but in my eyes Peyton is the MOST VALUABLE solid post and I agree with you but the fact is, if they continue on these paths, Favre will win because the media is a sucker for a story. and as much as we should all be sick of Favre by now, its a damn good story this time. Hes having possibly the best season of his career at age 40 for the team the Packers didn't want him playing for. as much as wed like to wish it was simply an award for who means the most to their team, it rarely is in any sport. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PsychoBelichickFan 0 Posted November 30, 2009 I'm as unbiased as they come being a Browns fan... Peyton Manning is the MVP The term MOST VALUABLE PLAYER is overlooked a lot with the stats, in a lot of sports.... When the record and stats and all that jive is similar between players..... I like to remove that player off his team in my mind and wonder....???? Vikings were a pretty good squad last year, sure Favre has made them much better and is clearly in the discussion.... Brady he's my boy and has clearly made the Pats better than they were last season, but they did win 11 games without the guy last year, that's some great coaching over there..... Brees I believe is a very close 2nd to Peyton, cause the Saints, eh it wouldn't be that pretty if he got hurt, but they'd still be respectable.... Peyton I believe is in a class of his own in this part of the discussion.... This guy IS THE COLTS... he runs the show over there, shiat if I found out he called the defensive plays when he's on the sidelines it wouldn't shock me... without him they're 4-12 IMO... All these cats are deserving, but in my eyes Peyton is the MOST VALUABLE the colts d is fierce and even without peyton they have a great offensive line stud rb and stud TE and WR. Sorgi might be a good qb.........the colts are no less than 7-9 without manning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmbryant09 1 Posted November 30, 2009 the colts d is fierce and even without peyton they have a great offensive line stud rb and stud TE and WR. Sorgi might be a good qb.........the colts are no less than 7-9 without manning. HAAAAA - I'm sorry, but our OLine is only good for one thing, and that's pass blocking, and that's mostly because Manning gives them their assignments pre-snap. Stud RB???? Are you kidding me? If you listed the RBs from top to bottom based on talent alone, Addai isn't in the top15, add in the fact that he gets dinged up nearly every game, and he's far from a stud RB. Wayne is absolutely a stud WR, Clark is a great TE that probably wouldn't be as good with any other QB throwing to him. The day Manning goes down for the season is the day the Colts become a 5-6 win team, MAX. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PsychoBelichickFan 0 Posted November 30, 2009 HAAAAA - I'm sorry, but our OLine is only good for one thing, and that's pass blocking, and that's mostly because Manning gives them their assignments pre-snap. Stud RB???? Are you kidding me? If you listed the RBs from top to bottom based on talent alone, Addai isn't in the top15, add in the fact that he gets dinged up nearly every game, and he's far from a stud RB. Wayne is absolutely a stud WR, Clark is a great TE that probably wouldn't be as good with any other QB throwing to him. The day Manning goes down for the season is the day the Colts become a 5-6 win team, MAX. lol.........they also said the viking line was only good for run blocking and look at favre now...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmbryant09 1 Posted November 30, 2009 lol.........they also said the viking line was only good for run blocking and look at favre now...... What does that have to do with anything??? I'd take the Vikings OLine anyday over the Colts, run or pass blocking. Another failed attempt at belittling Peyton Manning Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PsychoBelichickFan 0 Posted November 30, 2009 What does that have to do with anything??? I'd take the Vikings OLine anyday over the Colts, run or pass blocking. Another failed attempt at belittling Peyton Manning just trying to illustrate your incorrect assessment of the colts line. It is top ten easily. manning is a stud.....I am just saying the guy has alot of talent around him just like favre, just like brees, just like brady. Bottom line: Favre is the MVP. The vikes went froman 8-8 team to the best team in the nfc and a 15-1 to 14-2 team. Favre is doing all this at age 40. Favre has 24 tds and only 3 ints. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remote controller 143 Posted December 1, 2009 brady wins rings......he is not concerned with mvp stuff....unlike other stat padders like manning and favre with three mvps each and only one ring. This is really off base, like most of his uneducated posts. Do you really want to talk stat padding??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmbryant09 1 Posted December 1, 2009 just trying to illustrate your incorrect assessment of the colts line. It is top ten easily. manning is a stud.....I am just saying the guy has alot of talent around him just like favre, just like brees, just like brady. Bottom line: Favre is the MVP. The vikes went froman 8-8 team to the best team in the nfc and a 15-1 to 14-2 team. Favre is doing all this at age 40. Favre has 24 tds and only 3 ints. What is your statistical support illustrating the Colts OLine as "top ten...easily". If you knew anything about our organization, our OLine is our weakness, particularly our Left Tackle. Top 10??? Are you basing that off our bottom 5 ranked running attack? If you say it's Manning's sack #s, you are off base. Manning rarely takes sacks, and has a bigger hand in the pass-blocking than any OLinemen does. The Vikes went from a 10-6 team (not "8-8") to one of the 2 or 3 best NFC teams (not "the best). Most likely 12-14 wins. Manning and the Colts are undefeated, and their wins are a more direct result of Manning's play compared to the Vikes wins to Favre's play. And oh yeah - Manning leads the league in yards, TDs, and completion %...On an undefeated team...With 6 come-from-behind victories...Without Marvin Harrison AND his replacement. Yes he has Wayne and Clark. But when teams like NE take those options away, Manning turns a rookie Austin Collie and a 2nd year nobody Pierre Garcon into top wideouts. Favre has the best run-blocking OLine in the game, along with the best RB in the game, and arguably the most dominant front 4 and 7 in the game, with the DEF MVP front-runner Jared Allen. You're really going to argue that Manning is in a better situation than Favre is?? Try again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,757 Posted December 1, 2009 "Ergo, Brady is not that valuable", I hope you mean in relation to Manning, Favre, this year? We'll see after tonight what's being said on this board. so, whats being said? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,757 Posted December 1, 2009 What is your statistical support illustrating the Colts OLine as "top ten...easily". If you knew anything about our organization, our OLine is our weakness, particularly our Left Tackle. Top 10??? Are you basing that off our bottom 5 ranked running attack? If you say it's Manning's sack #s, you are off base. Manning rarely takes sacks, and has a bigger hand in the pass-blocking than any OLinemen does. The Vikes went from a 10-6 team (not "8-8") to one of the 2 or 3 best NFC teams (not "the best). Most likely 12-14 wins. Manning and the Colts are undefeated, and their wins are a more direct result of Manning's play compared to the Vikes wins to Favre's play. And oh yeah - Manning leads the league in yards, TDs, and completion %...On an undefeated team...With 6 come-from-behind victories...Without Marvin Harrison AND his replacement. Yes he has Wayne and Clark. But when teams like NE take those options away, Manning turns a rookie Austin Collie and a 2nd year nobody Pierre Garcon into top wideouts. Favre has the best run-blocking OLine in the game, along with the best RB in the game, and arguably the most dominant front 4 and 7 in the game, with the DEF MVP front-runner Jared Allen. You're really going to argue that Manning is in a better situation than Favre is?? Try again. i think Manning is in a better offensive situation. I wouldn't be upset with either guy winning MVP if they both stay the course but right now my gut says Favre wins it. voters will take note that guys like Sidney Rice and Shiancoe are far exceeding expectations and putting up numbers they couldn't sniff with T-Jack at the helm. Favre is visibly making them better. Now while I agree that the Colts wouldn't be near as good without Peyton, we have seen him do it year in and year out and guys like Wayne and Clark are already established so we don't get the immediate sense that Manning is making them better. I think its pretty safe to say that Wayne and Clark would still be pro bowl players on another team. Perhaos they wouldn;t put up quite as gaudy numbers without Manning but who would? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redtodd 7 Posted December 1, 2009 I am changing it again: #1 Brees #2 Favre #3 take your pick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,757 Posted December 1, 2009 I am changing it again: #1 Brees #2 Favre #3 take your pick. nah, you're just saying that because Brees torched the Patriots tonight. go back and look at his game by game performance. He has monster games and has disappeared for others. He is in the mix but this single game doesn't elevate him over Favre (or the guy you refuse to mention, Manning) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redtodd 7 Posted December 1, 2009 nah, you're just saying that because Brees torched the Patriots tonight. go back and look at his game by game performance. He has monster games and has disappeared for others. He is in the mix but this single game doesn't elevate him over Favre (or the guy you refuse to mention, Manning) Seeing how Manning needed a lot of help (30+ yard awful pass interference call, major defensive stands and a bad 4th down call) to "come back" against the SAME defense that Brees torched from beginning to end without throwing two picks in the process. To me it is obvious that Brees is better this year. The debate right now is whether Favre deserves it over Brees or not. One thing working against Brees in the voting though will be the lack of commercials he is in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bushy 0 Posted December 1, 2009 Seeing how Manning needed a lot of help (30+ yard awful pass interference call, major defensive stands and a bad 4th down call) to "come back" against the SAME defense that Brees torched from beginning to end without throwing two picks in the process. To me it is obvious that Brees is better this year. The debate right now is whether Favre deserves it over Brees or not. One thing working against Brees in the voting though will be the lack of commercials he is in. Actually, outside New England, Manning will be very much in the conversation. One thing that tonight did though is ensure that Brady isn't winning it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,757 Posted December 1, 2009 Seeing how Manning needed a lot of help (30+ yard awful pass interference call, major defensive stands and a bad 4th down call) to "come back" against the SAME defense that Brees torched from beginning to end without throwing two picks in the process. To me it is obvious that Brees is better this year. The debate right now is whether Favre deserves it over Brees or not. One thing working against Brees in the voting though will be the lack of commercials he is in. the excuses are flying out of NE at record speeds these days. Manning will be in the conversation wether you like it or not. You can whine about all the calls the Colts get (as a Patriot fan im not sure what basis you have to whine but to each his own) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redtodd 7 Posted December 1, 2009 Actually, outside New England, Manning will be very much in the conversation. You are right. Manning is definitely in it. It is between him and CJ for the Bronze. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redtodd 7 Posted December 1, 2009 the excuses are flying out of NE at record speeds these days. Manning will be in the conversation wether you like it or not. You can whine about all the calls the Colts get (as a Patriot fan im not sure what basis you have to whine but to each his own) Excuses? I just admitted to a QB owning the Patriots tonight. I am sorry that Manning was not able to do what Brees did. Brees is obviously better this year against the same defense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,757 Posted December 1, 2009 Excuses? I just admitted to a QB owning the Patriots tonight. I am sorry that Manning was not able to do what Brees did. Brees is obviously better this year against the same defense. I know you have a deep hatred for the Colts, its a big rivalry I understand that. But you literally just gave a bunch of excuses for why the Colts were able to come back on the Pats. The "BS calls" etc. Your memory can't be that bad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redtodd 7 Posted December 1, 2009 I know you have a deep hatred for the Colts, its a big rivalry I understand that. But you literally just gave a bunch of excuses for why the Colts were able to come back on the Pats. The "BS calls" etc. Your memory can't be that bad Yes, Manning needed help at the end. Brees had the game in hand the whole time. No need for a comeback. No need for a 4th down call. Brees easily out performed Manning against the same defense. What is there not to understand? Also, I do not hate any team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,757 Posted December 1, 2009 Yes, Manning needed help at the end. Brees had the game in hand the whole time. No need for a comeback. No need for a 4th down call. Brees easily out performed Manning against the same defense. What is there not to understand? Also, I do not hate any team. umm hate to break it to you but I never said Brees didn't "outperform" Manning. I simply said you were making excuses for Mannings win. Which you did. what is there not to understand? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Huh? 7 Posted December 1, 2009 brady wins rings......he is not concerned with mvp stuff....unlike other stat padders like manning and favre with three mvps each and only one ring. Brady stopped winning rings once he started padding his stats. The tense on your sentence is wrong. It should be past tense. It's been 5 years man! You probably didn't have a driving license the last time the Pats won anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmbryant09 1 Posted December 1, 2009 Excuses? I just admitted to a QB owning the Patriots tonight. I am sorry that Manning was not able to do what Brees did. Brees is obviously better this year against the same defense. Against Miami: Manning - 14-23, 303 yards (13.2 ypa), 2 TDs 0 INTs 133.9 QB rating. Brees - 22-38, 298 (7.8 ypa), 1 TD, 3 INTs 2 Fumbles Lost, 58.9 QB rating ya - base your argument on common oppenents Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remote controller 143 Posted December 1, 2009 I am changing it again: #1 Brees #2 Favre #3 take your pick. I agree with brees over brett, and Brett over manning at this point too. That was a quality win last night. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted December 1, 2009 1...can't decide between Brees and Manning. Prior to last night it was Manning easy...but that dismantling of the Pats was impressive. 2. Favre is close...but IMO, that soft schedule knocks him behind the other 2. 3. If the Titans keep winning, and Johnson gets 2000 yards, he may sneak in there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mambokings 0 Posted December 1, 2009 I'm curious to see what Favre does in the playoffs. Will he blow another postseason game for his team or will he be as measured and effective as he's been all season? I'm hoping he doesn't choke, on a personal level, because that would be the way he's remembered. You're only as good as your last performance, as they say, and it would be a shame to write off what's been an amazing season for a guy his age. He's endured some very bitter criticism to get where he is and it would make for a good football story if the Vikings tasted postseason success. Superbowl? Maybe. Saints/Vikings would be a hell of a matchup. MVP? Maybe, if only because "Manning for MVP" gets sports writers tired before they even open up their word processors. Brees for MVP? That's more likely, but any one of these three Quarterbacks make a good case for themselves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMMensaMind 462 Posted December 2, 2009 just trying to illustrate your incorrect assessment of the colts line. It is top ten easily. manning is a stud.....I am just saying the guy has alot of talent around him just like favre, just like brees, just like brady. Bottom line: Favre is the MVP. The vikes went froman 8-8 team to the best team in the nfc and a 15-1 to 14-2 team. Favre is doing all this at age 40. Favre has 24 tds and only 3 ints. Favre has the easiest QB job in the NFL, and he knows it. That team has an O-line that isn't letting him get touched; a dominant RB that other teams scheme for and stop - opening up easy throwing lanes and plenty of time to throw for Favre - and a defense which gives him the comfort level necessary to dictate the pace of the game. That said, he's playing great...but not as an MVP. Minnesota is a playoff caliber team without him. I judge the term 'MVP' literally. Which team would suffer the most if they lost their contender, and which team is performing at the highest level to this point? Given that metric, here's how I have it to this point in the season: 1st place (tie): Manning, Brees 2nd place: Chris Johnson 3rd place: Favre I think it's easy to defend this ranking: both Indy and New Orleans would have at least 5 losses each without their QBs: neither have a dominant running game, and neither has a dominant defense (each has a decent defense in their own way: NO has a fantastic scoring D, but allows a ton of points; Indy has had the fortune of playing mostly low scoring teams). I think it's obvious that both teams revolve around their QB. Chris Johnson makes Tennessee run, and is playing at a Hall-of-Fame level. Without him, teams play defense differently, and Vince Young doesn't get to revitalize. They are, though, helping each other right now. Favre is playing fantastic, but is in the perfect situation to do so. It's the reason he wanted to go to Minnesota! That team would be a threat with only AP on offense, and was. I cannot give Favre MVP credit for this reason, but I can give him props. I'd love to see Minnesota lose to New Orleans (that is, if my Packers don't do enough this year, hehe). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joey Gladstone 33 Posted December 2, 2009 If Peyton and Brees dont finish the season undefeated I can't see any possible way that Favre won't win MVP. A large majority of white America would cream their shorts and announcers could jerk each other off while calling him a 4 time MVP every 5 seconds during the playoffs. Personally, I'd vote for Chris Johnson. The dude has single-handedly carried his offense on his back. It is absolutely ridiculous that after their horrid start Tennessee is still in the wild-card hunt. The guy is focking lethal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted December 2, 2009 If Peyton and Brees dont finish the season undefeated I can't see any possible way that Favre won't win MVP. A large majority of white America would cream their shorts and announcers could jerk each other off while calling him a 4 time MVP every 5 seconds during the playoffs. Personally, I'd vote for Chris Johnson. The dude has single-handedly carried his offense on his back. It is absolutely ridiculous that after their horrid start Tennessee is still in the wild-card hunt. The guy is focking lethal. What will hurt Chris Johnson...especially saying he single handedly carried the offense is the difference between his numbers with Collins, and his numbers with VY back there. They have changed dramatically. Both guys have been great for the other. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joey Gladstone 33 Posted December 2, 2009 What will hurt Chris Johnson...especially saying he single handedly carried the offense is the difference between his numbers with Collins, and his numbers with VY back there.They have changed dramatically. Both guys have been great for the other. True, but I think that speaks more to how bad Collins was this season. I think he'd be putting up similar numbers if they still had Volek. It will still hurt him though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Moz 69 Posted December 2, 2009 Favre will win MVP unless there is a major collapse -- but he then needs to retire finally especially if he wins a SB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted December 2, 2009 Drew Brees is the MVP and it isn't close. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMMensaMind 462 Posted December 2, 2009 Drew Brees is the MVP and it isn't close. That's clearly not an educated statement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
