First Grade Teacher can't speak english - Can't be fired

[DankNuggs 305]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_...ostPop_Emailed1

 

 

By John R. Ellement, Globe Staff

 

A former Lowell teacher who was fired because she failed state-mandated English fluency tests may get her job back as a result of a decision today by the Supreme Judicial Court.

 

In a unanimous ruling, the state's high court said an arbitrator did not violate state law when he ruled that the Lowell School Committee had no right to dismiss Phanna Kem Robishaw, a first-grade teacher from Cambodia who failed English-speaking tests.

 

"Applying the well-settled limitations on judicial review of an arbitrator's decision, we conclude that the arbitrator's award in this case should be affirmed," Justice Margot Botsford wrote for the court.

 

In its ruling, the SJC said it was not passing judgment on the validity or legality of the English-speaking requirement that was added to the state's lawbooks as the result of a statewide referendum. In 2002, voters approved Question 2, which required, among other things, that all classroom teachers pass proficiency tests in English.

 

In 2003, the Lowell School Department implemented the new rules and Robishaw was required to take the tests. At the time, Robishaw had taught for 10 years at the Greenhalge School, where nearly 50 percent of the students were Cambodian immigrants.

 

A survivor of the murderous Khmer Rouge regime, Robishaw had four state teaching licenses to her credit when she failed two types of fluency tests, according to the SJC. She went on medical leave for post-traumatic stress disorder linked to her life in Cambodia and sought to get her job back in 2005.

 

But Lowell school officials, citing the 2003 failures, fired her instead. In 2007, an arbitrator ruled the school was wrong to conduct the tests when Robishaw was being treated for a psychiatric disorder and that her life story was an inspiration to her students.

 

The school committee appealed, and a Middlesex Superior Court judge ruled that the public policy requirements approved by voters in Question 2 must be applied to Robishaw. The judge included an audiotape of Robishaw speaking in the ruling to strengthen the conclusion that Robishaw was unfit to teach.

 

But the SJC said that under state law, judges cannot wholly substitute their own conclusions for those made by an arbitrator. "The judge was not free to reject the arbitrator's findings or his legal conclusion,'' Botsford wrote.

 

The SJC said that the arbitrator's conclusions did not violate state law requiring teachers to be fluent in English because the proficiency testing "must have been conducted in a procedurally appropriate manner and must be based on the use of substantively valid standards. If it was not, the superintendent's fluency determination need not be accepted. The judge was not free to reject the arbitrator's findings or his legal conclusion.''

 

 

Cliffs: Woman teaches 1st grade, can't speak english, fails fluency test in 2002... goes on paid medical leave for PTSD... comes back in 2005 wanting job back, they try to fire her but can't.... Her experience in Khamer Rouge is an inspiration to all, except her students who are receiving sub standard education.... Yay Massachusetts...protecting the teachers before the students once again...

 

 

What does it take to get rid of these deadbeat teachers?

[td parker 1]

Lowell has schools?

[td parker 1]

What does it take to get rid of these deadbeat teachers?

Get rid of the teachers union.

[DankNuggs 305]

What does it take to get rid of these deadbeat teachers?

 

Get rid of the teachers union.

agreed, get rid of tenure and the union = problem solved...

 

 

So simple...

[Johnny B Good 0]

agreed, get rid of tenure and the union = problem solved...

So simple...

 

 

 

If you think teachers are bad now, what do you think you'll get when they are paid minimum wage?

[Strike 5,213]

If you think teachers are bad now, what do you think you'll get when they are paid minimum wage?

 

They won't be paid minimum wage. HTH.

[JT 137]

What a joke our education system has become.

 

This first link is from 2007, when the state of Arizona faced penalties and witheld funding for not adequately teaching English to the children in it's schools.

 

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/n...html?&wired

 

The second is current. People are up in arms because the state has announced plans to reassign or terminate teachers who lack sufficient proficiency in English to teach the subject.

 

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/phoenixm...vIZLHK_OsA.cspx

 

The Wall Street Journal...which, apparently, has heavy involvement in Arizona schools...spun the initiative as a means to seek and destroy "heavily accented" teachers. Of course it is, as it is obviously in our best interest to have more citizens of Mexican heritage in the ranks of the unemployed.

 

WTF ever happened to common sense?

[phillybear 366]

If you think teachers are bad now, what do you think you'll get when they are paid minimum wage?

 

Less highfalutin teachers.

[itsbigmoni 1]

They fired her because she was under treatment. If she was never getting treatment, there wouldn't have been a problem.

 

I think its a cop out, but overall, i agree with the judge. I'd like to add, if you can't get fired for failing a test while you're under going treatment, you shouldn't be teaching either.

[Saint Elistan 106]

*She's been teaching since 1992.

*Half the school's students are Cambodian.

*English Laws Passed in 2002.

*She took the tests while being treated for PTSD in 2003.

*After treatment, in 2005, she comes back to her job; she's fired instead - citing the 2003 tests.

*In 2007, an arbitrator says school was wrongful in their termination based on tests while she was under psychiatric treatment.

 

I don't see why she shouldn't be allowed to test again. The arbitrator said they couldn't fire her for test results obtained while she was under psychiatric treatment. I think that's plenty fair. Yet the media, and you, paint this as a court ruling that non-English speaking teachers are free to ruin little white kids education. The judge simply ruled that the arbitrator's findings in the dispute did not violate the 2002 law because the results of the tests may not be accurate due to her psychiatric condition at the time.

The SJC said that the arbitrator's conclusions did not violate state law requiring teachers to be fluent in English because the proficiency testing "must have been conducted in a procedurally appropriate manner and must be based on the use of substantively valid standards. If it was not, the superintendent's fluency determination need not be accepted. The judge was not free to reject the arbitrator's findings or his legal conclusion.

Now that she's fine, give her another test. And if she fails, the school has every right to terminate her. That's all there is to it.

[frank 2,276]

What a joke our education system has become.

 

This first link is from 2007, when the state of Arizona faced penalties and witheld funding for not adequately teaching English to the children in it's schools.

 

Did you go to school in Arizona?

[frank 2,276]

Less Fewer highfalutin teachers.

 

Perhaps you meant the teachers would not be as "highfalutin" as before.

[edjr 6,578]

Massachusetts.

 

Way to represent!

[phillybear 366]

Perhaps you meant the teachers would not be as "highfalutin" as before.

 

Potato. Potatoe.

[itsbigmoni 1]

*She's been teaching since 1992.

*Half the school's students are Cambodian.

*English Laws Passed in 2002.

*She took the tests while being treated for PTSD in 2003.

*After treatment, in 2005, she comes back to her job; she's fired instead - citing the 2003 tests.

*In 2007, an arbitrator says school was wrongful in their termination based on tests while she was under psychiatric treatment.

 

I don't see why she shouldn't be allowed to test again. The arbitrator said they couldn't fire her for test results obtained while she was under psychiatric treatment. I think that's plenty fair. Yet the media, and you, paint this as a court ruling that non-English speaking teachers are free to ruin little white kids education. The judge simply ruled that the arbitrator's findings in the dispute did not violate the 2002 law because the results of the tests may not be accurate due to her psychiatric condition at the time.

 

Now that she's fine, give her another test. And if she fails, the school has every right to terminate her. That's all there is to it.

 

This was the point i was trying to make. You did it much better than me.

[supermike80 1,807]

*She's been teaching since 1992.

*Half the school's students are Cambodian.

*English Laws Passed in 2002.

*She took the tests while being treated for PTSD in 2003.

*After treatment, in 2005, she comes back to her job; she's fired instead - citing the 2003 tests.

*In 2007, an arbitrator says school was wrongful in their termination based on tests while she was under psychiatric treatment.

 

I don't see why she shouldn't be allowed to test again. The arbitrator said they couldn't fire her for test results obtained while she was under psychiatric treatment. I think that's plenty fair. Yet the media, and you, paint this as a court ruling that non-English speaking teachers are free to ruin little white kids education. The judge simply ruled that the arbitrator's findings in the dispute did not violate the 2002 law because the results of the tests may not be accurate due to her psychiatric condition at the time.

 

Now that she's fine, give her another test. And if she fails, the school has every right to terminate her. That's all there is to it.

Woah big fella. You new here? This IS the geek club!

[MedStudent 56]

*She's been teaching since 1992.

*Half the school's students are Cambodian.

*English Laws Passed in 2002.

*She took the tests while being treated for PTSD in 2003.

*After treatment, in 2005, she comes back to her job; she's fired instead - citing the 2003 tests.

*In 2007, an arbitrator says school was wrongful in their termination based on tests while she was under psychiatric treatment.

 

I don't see why she shouldn't be allowed to test again. The arbitrator said they couldn't fire her for test results obtained while she was under psychiatric treatment. I think that's plenty fair. Yet the media, and you, paint this as a court ruling that non-English speaking teachers are free to ruin little white kids education. The judge simply ruled that the arbitrator's findings in the dispute did not violate the 2002 law because the results of the tests may not be accurate due to her psychiatric condition at the time.

 

Now that she's fine, give her another test. And if she fails, the school has every right to terminate her. That's all there is to it.

 

[DankNuggs 305]

*She's been teaching since 1992.

*Half the school's students are Cambodian.

*English Laws Passed in 2002.

*She took the tests while being treated for PTSD in 2003.

*After treatment, in 2005, she comes back to her job; she's fired instead - citing the 2003 tests.

*In 2007, an arbitrator says school was wrongful in their termination based on tests while she was under psychiatric treatment.

 

I don't see why she shouldn't be allowed to test again. The arbitrator said they couldn't fire her for test results obtained while she was under psychiatric treatment. I think that's plenty fair. Yet the media, and you, paint this as a court ruling that non-English speaking teachers are free to ruin little white kids education. The judge simply ruled that the arbitrator's findings in the dispute did not violate the 2002 law because the results of the tests may not be accurate due to her psychiatric condition at the time.

 

Now that she's fine, give her another test. And if she fails, the school has every right to terminate her. That's all there is to it.

She already failed the test TWICE..she then hid on the taypayer payrolls getting treated for PTSD which is incurable. She clearly did that to avoid getting canned. Now she wants to come back and forget that she fails to qualify as a teacher.... BE GONE WOMAN!!!!!

 

Quit trying to outsmart the system. Our children deserve better.

 

 

Won't somebody please think of the children.

[Frank M 181]

*She's been teaching since 1992.

*Half the school's students are Cambodian.

*English Laws Passed in 2002.

*She took the tests while being treated for PTSD in 2003.

*After treatment, in 2005, she comes back to her job; she's fired instead - citing the 2003 tests.

*In 2007, an arbitrator says school was wrongful in their termination based on tests while she was under psychiatric treatment.

 

I don't see why she shouldn't be allowed to test again. The arbitrator said they couldn't fire her for test results obtained while she was under psychiatric treatment. I think that's plenty fair. Yet the media, and you, paint this as a court ruling that non-English speaking teachers are free to ruin little white kids education. The judge simply ruled that the arbitrator's findings in the dispute did not violate the 2002 law because the results of the tests may not be accurate due to her psychiatric condition at the time.

 

Now that she's fine, give her another test. And if she fails, the school has every right to terminate her. That's all there is to it.

 

Reasoned, thought-out reponses are not welcome here!!

[DankNuggs 305]

Reasoned, thought-out reponses are not welcome here!!

Yes, we can only be so lucky that our excellent teachers need 3 attempts over the course of several years to pass a basic engish fluency test...

[Frank M 181]

Yes, we can only be so lucky that our excellent teachers need 3 attempts over the course of several years to pass a basic engish fluency test...

 

Sadly, such a test is not required for this bored.

[Strike 5,213]

Sadly, such a test is not required for this bored.

 

Pretty sure she didn't get fired for a typo, or are you actually suggesting that he doesn't know how to spell "english"?

 

[DankNuggs 305]

Sadly, such a test is not required for this bored.

You lack substance.

[DankNuggs 305]

Pretty sure she didn't get fired for a typo, or are you actually suggesting that he doesn't know how to spell "english"?

 

When people can't intelligently debate, they name call, find typos...etc... Anything to avoid the embarrassment of getting intellectually curbstomped

[heavy-set 39]

figures its in a liberal place like boston MA. didnt they shut down the city due to lite-brites being strategically placed to promote a tv show?

 

good thing they caught those, and not mohommed atta before he crashed a plane into the WTC.

way to go boston

[edjr 6,578]

figures its in a liberal place like boston MA. didnt they shut down the city due to lite-brites being strategically placed to promote a tv show?

 

good thing they caught those, and not mohommed atta before he crashed a plane into the WTC.

way to go boston

 

Want to know the ultimate in irony?

 

Concord Massachusetts banned bottled water and 2 days later there was a huge water main break and there was no drinking water for 5 days, they had to go to the nearby cities to buy bottled water to drink

 

I love Moonbats

[DankNuggs 305]

figures its in a liberal place like boston MA. didnt they shut down the city due to lite-brites being strategically placed to promote a tv show?

 

good thing they caught those, and not mohommed atta before he crashed a plane into the WTC.

way to go boston

In their defense, they thought they were homemade bombs... But ya it was a comedy central show gag...

 

Just like that movie "blown away' (not the GOOD one with Nicole Eggert, this is the kurt russell movie about bombings in beantown)

[edjr 6,578]

In their defense, they thought they were homemade bombs... But ya it was a comedy central show gag...

 

Just like that movie "blown away' (not the GOOD one with Nicole Eggert, this is the kurt russell movie about bombings in beantown)

 

 

Howie Carr was right on top of this one.

[Saint Elistan 106]

She already failed the test TWICE..she then hid on the taypayer payrolls getting treated for PTSD which is incurable. She clearly did that to avoid getting canned. Now she wants to come back and forget that she fails to qualify as a teacher.... BE GONE WOMAN!!!!!

 

Quit trying to outsmart the system. Our children deserve better.

Won't somebody please think of the children.

 

If you can find anything saying that she took these tests before being treated for PTSD, then fine. But I can't:

In 2002, Massachusetts voters approved a ballot question designed to virtually eliminate bilingual education and require schools prove teachers are proficient in English.

 

In October of that year [2002], a new principal at the school expressed concern to the Lowell school superintendent about the English proficiency of several teachers, including Robishaw. The following January [2003], the principal gave Robishaw an "unsatisfactory" performance rating.

 

The next month [February 2003] Robishaw began experiencing symptoms of post traumatic stress disorder, first brought on after she fled the Khmer Rouge, and took a medical leave of absence. She asked to postpone two English fluency tests, but the request was denied. She failed both.

Sounds to me like she claimed to have PTSD before the tests were given. Sure, it's probably a biased link...but I can't find any other outlet that wasn't running with the "Judge ruled that teachers don't have to speak English" spin. He simply ruled that the school board has to conform with the arbitrator's findings...which said that the school couldn't fire someone for test results obtained while they're in need of, or undergoing, psychiatric treatment.

 

Give her another test and keep her canned if she fails. It's so focking simple. It doesn't matter if we think she abused the system by lying about PTSD or not. If she fails, she's gone and we can all celebrate justice.. If she passes, you look like a pr!ck.

[Frank M 181]

Pretty sure she didn't get fired for a typo, or are you actually suggesting that he doesn't know how to spell "english"?

 

 

 

 

Jesus.

[Strike 5,213]

Jesus.

 

Was deported last week. Alas, he has mowed his last lawn in So. Cal.

[Frank M 181]

When people can't intelligently debate, they name call, find typos...etc... Anything to avoid the embarrassment of getting intellectually curbstomped

 

You've already been "curbstomped" twice in this thread. But by all means, continue on with your moral outrage if it makes you feel better.

[Frank M 181]

If you can find anything saying that she took these tests before being treated for PTSD, then fine. But I can't:

 

Sounds to me like she claimed to have PTSD before the tests were given. Sure, it's probably a biased link...but I can't find any other outlet that wasn't running with the "Judge ruled that teachers don't have to speak English" spin. He simply ruled that the school board has to conform with the arbitrator's findings...which said that the school couldn't fire someone for test results obtained while they're in need of, or undergoing, psychiatric treatment.

 

Give her another test and keep her canned if she fails. It's so focking simple. It doesn't matter if we think she abused the system by lying about PTSD or not. If she fails, she's gone and we can all celebrate justice.. If she passes, you look like a pr!ck.

 

Oops! Too late.

[Riddlen 1]

They dont need to get rid of unions, just fix them. There has to be a way to fire some one for cause even if they are tenure. the problem with completely disbanding teachers unions is that my daughters 1st grade class is now taught by the lowest bidder. To the point in this thread, its clear to me that they fired her becuase they wanted to and used the test as an excuse. Clearly she could or could not speak english when they hired her and it takes X years (5 in MI) to get tenure so she has to be ok prior to that or they would have fired her. They were pissed off she was bilking the system with her PTSD garbage and tried to fire her when they realized they had an out.

[DankNuggs 305]

Give her another test and keep her canned if she fails. It's so focking simple. It doesn't matter if we think she abused the system by lying about PTSD or not. If she fails, she's gone and we can all celebrate justice.. If she passes, you look like a pr!ck.

I wouldn't send my kid to be taught by a teacher that needs 3 tests to pass english fluency....

 

 

F that, furthermore I would never send a kid to public school. Private schools actually have to perform to get parents to pay big bucks to send there kids there... Capitalism at work FTW... Better college FTW....Make more money FTW.... let the degens like Frank M keep their beloved ESL teachers... Enjoy having the vocabulary of a taco bell cashier... Have a nice life :wavey:

[Frank M 181]

I wouldn't send my kid to be taught by a teacher that needs 3 tests to pass english fluency....

F that, furthermore I would never send a kid to public school. Private schools actually have to perform to get parents to pay big bucks to send there kids there... Capitalism at work FTW... Better college FTW....Make more money FTW.... let the degens like Frank M keep their beloved ESL teachers... Enjoy having the vocabulary of a taco bell cashier... Have a nice life :wavey:

 

 

I will never tire of the irony of someone complaining about the state of education who can't even spell.

 

That's twice in this thread. Looks like your parents wasted THEIR money.

[Riddlen 1]

I wouldn't send my kid to be taught by a teacher that needs 3 tests to pass english fluency....

F that, furthermore I would never send a kid to public school. Private schools actually have to perform to get parents to pay big bucks to send there kids there... Capitalism at work FTW... Better college FTW....Make more money FTW.... let the degens like Frank M keep their beloved ESL teachers... Enjoy having the vocabulary of a taco bell cashier... Have a nice life :wavey:

 

meh. private schools have advantages of size usually. you can police your kids activity becuase you know every parent and kid they interact with. educationaly, private schools can hire anyone they want to teach your kids. the advantage that most private schools have is that more of thier kids have parents that care but empirically the edivendce that proivat school kids are smarter depends on which study you read.

 

I went both, private elementary, public middle and high school. I did well at both because I am smart and had good parents.

[DankNuggs 305]

 

I will never tire of the irony of someone complaining about the state of education who can't even spell.

 

That's twice in this thread. Looks like your parents wasted THEIR money.

 

 

Nice comeback Igor. Keep pickout out those typos...

[Frank M 181]

Nice comeback Igor. Keep pickout out those typos...

 

If you insist.

[DankNuggs 305]

meh. private schools have advantages of size usually. you can police your kids activity becuase you know every parent and kid they interact with. educationaly, private schools can hire anyone they want to teach your kids. the advantage that most private schools have is that more of thier kids have parents that care but empirically the edivendce that proivat school kids are smarter depends on which study you read.

 

I went both, private elementary, public middle and high school. I did well at both because I am smart and had good parents.

I wouldn't group all private schools into one category because they are not all the same. A good private school will provide a substantially better education and preparation for college and the white collar work force.

 

A good student at a public school certainly CAN excel, but they are fighting the institution to do so. Class size, resources, teacher ability it really isn't comperable.