Playoff tie breakers?

[Juggernauts 0]

How do your leagues handle playoff tie breakers?

 

We have 4 teams tied at 7-6 for 3 playoff wild card spots. Our constitution isn't very clear as what to do. It states you use head to head unless 3 or more teams are tied, then you use total points scored.

 

My interpretation is that once the first wild card playoff spot is awarded you revert back to step one (head to head). If 3 or more teams are still tied for it you move on to total points. Once the second wild card playoff spot is awarded you revert back to step 1 (head to head). That makes the most sense to me.

 

We are having an "issue" because one owner has a different interpretation because my way he's out. He thinks it means total points is the only tie breaker since there are more than 3 teams. He'd qualify at the #6 spot his way, but loses the head to head with the other person my way.

 

Which one makes the most sense and is most fair?

[abair058 0]

How do your leagues handle playoff tie breakers?

 

We have 4 teams tied at 7-6 for 3 playoff wild card spots. Our constitution isn't very clear as what to do. It states you use head to head unless 3 or more teams are tied, then you use total points scored.

 

My interpretation is that once the first wild card playoff spot is awarded you revert back to step one (head to head). If 3 or more teams are still tied for it you move on to total points. Once the second wild card playoff spot is awarded you revert back to step 1 (head to head). That makes the most sense to me.

 

We are having an "issue" because one owner has a different interpretation because my way he's out. He thinks it means total points is the only tie breaker since there are more than 3 teams. He'd qualify at the #6 spot his way, but loses the head to head with the other person my way.

 

Which one makes the most sense and is most fair?

 

 

My league is about the same. We have 3 tied right now and are going to do total points if 3 teams are tied. The 3 teams all beat one another also.

 

Look at it as the Rose bowl bid for the big ten. 3 way tie went to highest BCS ranking.

 

Givint it to the team with the highest total points is the most fair because they are "truely" the best team and deserve it the most.

[FeelingMN 273]

If you're going to use total points to determine one of the playoff teams, you have to use total points for all the playoff teams. You can't apply one tiebreaker for one team, then another tiebreaker for another team.

 

4 teams at 7-6....top 3 in total points get in. It's the easiest, and fairest way in my opinion.

[Juggernauts 0]

If you're going to use total points to determine one of the playoff teams, you have to use total points for all the playoff teams. You can't apply one tiebreaker for one team, then another tiebreaker for another team.

 

4 teams at 7-6....top 3 in total points get in. It's the easiest, and fairest way in my opinion.

 

 

My understanding/interpretation isn't that total points is THE one we are using...head to head is, then total points. We aren't applying one tie breaker for one team then another. It's the same. Head to head, if no winner, then total points, then back to head to head.

 

I'm the #1 seed so it doesn't impact me, I just think my way is right. What's the point of even having head to head then as a tie breaker? You may as well just use total points. If you do that, then why even bother having head to head matchups from week to week? You may as well just become a league that uses total points.

[cmh6476 1,023]

pray it works itself out with wins and losses next week and then make your rules clearer the following year is your best case scenario

 

 

since it says points if more than two are tied, my inerpretation would be that it goes points for the 2 spots if you three are still tied

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

1 - h2h record

2 - division h2h record

3 - total points

 

We use these 3, in order, and there's no grey area.

[pimptastic69 0]

How do your leagues handle playoff tie breakers?

 

We have 4 teams tied at 7-6 for 3 playoff wild card spots. Our constitution isn't very clear as what to do. It states you use head to head unless 3 or more teams are tied, then you use total points scored.

 

My interpretation is that once the first wild card playoff spot is awarded you revert back to step one (head to head). If 3 or more teams are still tied for it you move on to total points. Once the second wild card playoff spot is awarded you revert back to step 1 (head to head). That makes the most sense to me.

 

We are having an "issue" because one owner has a different interpretation because my way he's out. He thinks it means total points is the only tie breaker since there are more than 3 teams. He'd qualify at the #6 spot his way, but loses the head to head with the other person my way.

 

Which one makes the most sense and is most fair?

 

You're using the NFL's interpretation of the tiebreaking rules, where you use the rules to eliminate one team at a time and then revert back to step one for the remaining teams. So, in my opinion, you are technically correct.

 

I used to use the same rules, but it always seemed to create bad blood among the league. I've found it much easier to simply use total points as the primary tiebreaker. When I changed to total points, I made it abundantly clear to the rest of the league the reason why, and they understood it.

 

Some may say, "Why play in a H2H league when H2H doesn't mean anything at the end of the year?" To me, weekly H2H provides the fun factor, and total points pays the bills. If you were playing in a 32 team league with 2 conferences and 8 divisions, I could see using the NFL's tiebreaker rules, but 99.99% of FF leagues are 10-14 teams, so it doesn't really work. The ultimate goal for every team is to score as many points as possible. My tiebreakers are overall winning % followed by total points. It has never failed and everyone in the league knows exactly what they need to do to get in the playoffs. It leaves no room for interpretation.

[FeelingMN 273]

My understanding/interpretation isn't that total points is THE one we are using...head to head is, then total points. We aren't applying one tie breaker for one team then another. It's the same. Head to head, if no winner, then total points, then back to head to head.

 

I'm the #1 seed so it doesn't impact me, I just think my way is right. What's the point of even having head to head then as a tie breaker? You may as well just use total points. If you do that, then why even bother having head to head matchups from week to week? You may as well just become a league that uses total points.

 

I don't use head to head because it's not fair to penalize a team who had byes/injuries/bad luck for 1 or 2 weeks but was otherwise a competitive team throughout the season.

 

Head to head is all luck. Sometimes you score a lot, and it doesn't matter who you're matched up with. Sometimes you don't and it does. Usually it's somewhere in between. In the long run, this will even out. If you have a good FF team, you'll usually end up scoring more than the opposition.

 

Your record is an artifact of a lot of extraneous variable. Whereas your points scored reflects all the decisions you've made from the draft, to starting player A and benching player B, to acquiring free agents. It doesn't matter if you've gone up against the top scoring team every week. If you've done a good job at managing your team, you'll have outscored other teams....and I prefer to emphasize this than the luck involved in drawing a favorable schedule.

 

[Matthew's Berry's 0]

Sounds like the intent of your constituition was to mimic the NFL rules. So with 3 teams use total points to award a team playoff spot. Then go back to step #1 with remaining 2 teams.

 

We use to do same rules of following NFL but switched to total points only as tie breaker. I'm all for "being" like the NFL but the problem is the NFL doesn't deal with bye weeks like fantasy does ... for 7 weeks fantasy deals with byes, whereas the NFL doesn't - they don't win, lose or tie during a bye because they simply just don't play! H2H tiebreakers are frustating and piss the "man out" off. Playing H2H weekly is no doubt fun, and moving to total points as tiebreaker was the easiest and greatest move we ever made as a league.

 

Good Luck ...

[Super Cubs 154]

How do your leagues handle playoff tie breakers?

 

We have 4 teams tied at 7-6 for 3 playoff wild card spots. Our constitution isn't very clear as what to do. It states you use head to head unless 3 or more teams are tied, then you use total points scored.

 

My interpretation is that once the first wild card playoff spot is awarded you revert back to step one (head to head). If 3 or more teams are still tied for it you move on to total points. Once the second wild card playoff spot is awarded you revert back to step 1 (head to head). That makes the most sense to me.

 

We are having an "issue" because one owner has a different interpretation because my way he's out. He thinks it means total points is the only tie breaker since there are more than 3 teams. He'd qualify at the #6 spot his way, but loses the head to head with the other person my way.

 

Which one makes the most sense and is most fair?

 

Your way is what is used in the little league world series. Its hard to swallow when your on the loosing end.

[cyclone24 1,913]

We had the exact same thing with 5 teams at 7-6. We decided to go based off of record vs the other 7-6 teams first since head to head is almost impossible. If that doesnt settle it...then off points. But at any point you can use head to head...we used it.

 

So for instance if 3 teams were a lock and you needed 3 more teams. If TEAM A went 2-1 (depending on schedule) and TEAM B and C were 1-2 and TEAM D was 2-1....then TEAM A and D are in.

 

Then if C and B played each other....whoever won that game would be the 6th team

 

 

Dont use points!!

 

Thats crap if 4 teams are 7-6 and one team went 4-0 against the other 7-6 teams but scored 5 less points over a year than a team that went 0-4 against the other 7-6 teams. how is that fair?

[pimptastic69 0]

[quote name='cyclone24' date='06 December 2010 - 02:34 PM' timestamp='1291663920' post='4381959'

 

Dont use points!!

 

Thats crap if 4 teams are 7-6 and one team went 4-0 against the other 7-6 teams but scored 5 less points over a year than a team that went 0-4 against the other 7-6 teams. how is that fair?

 

Did the team that went 4-0 vs. the other teams do anything different than they would have done vs. the 9-2 team? It's not like there is some type of emotional bond that you have with your players where you can root them on like the Gipper. The H2H thing is a farce.

 

What you do against your fellow league mates week to week is for fun. That's the luck part. Total points scored throughout the season is the skill part. I think any league that disregards total points in favor of H2H standings is retarded.

[cyclone24 1,913]

Did the team that went 4-0 vs. the other teams do anything different than they would have done vs. the 9-2 team? It's not like there is some type of emotional bond that you have with your players where you can root them on like the Gipper. The H2H thing is a farce.

 

What you do against your fellow league mates week to week is for fun. That's the luck part. Total points scored throughout the season is the skill part. I think any league that disregards total points in favor of H2H standings is retarded.

 

 

Yeah i mean......one team scoring 5 more points, but losing to every actual good team is way better than rewarding a team that beat top teams but scored 5 points less.....right.

 

Again...if 4 teams are tied...and one of those teams beat the others they are tied with 3 or 4 times....you cant justify them getting bounced out by a 0-4 team against the other 7-6's by saying..."well they scored 5 more points this year". THATS...dumb

[Matthew's Berry's 0]

Both sides aren't right or wrong ... smart or dumb ... just different ways of doing it.

 

Its whatever the league chooses, and they better have well written scenerios laid out in the rules or someones butt is going to ger hurt.

 

For us H2H is fun during the season, while using TP for tiebreakers is easy and clean. Its a combination of both types of leagues that makes it work. I've played both styles and enjoy just playing FF regardless, but for this league of 8 years of constant modification we finally have successfully been thrilled with it for past three years and won't look back.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,316]

I am always of the opinion that each seed is its own entity.

 

if your tie breakers are H2H then total points, then you have to follow it

 

if you have 4 teams for 3 spots lets say 4th - 6th seed I assume

 

4th seed (most total points) start over

5th seed (most total points) of 3 remaining

6th seed (H2H)

 

this is how is should be in your scenario. change it next year if you like but according to what you have said this is how it should end up

[MrDooDooMan 3]

Yeah i mean......one team scoring 5 more points, but losing to every actual good team is way better than rewarding a team that beat top teams but scored 5 points less.....right.

 

Again...if 4 teams are tied...and one of those teams beat the others they are tied with 3 or 4 times....you cant justify them getting bounced out by a 0-4 team against the other 7-6's by saying..."well they scored 5 more points this year". THATS...dumb

 

If four teams are tied why not have them draw straws? Maybe paper rock scissors? Flip a coin? All those options are about as reasonable as going by the head to head vs teams of the same record. Lets say team A goes 4-0 against other 7-6 teams with outcomes like 75-80..does that team deserve to get in over team B who lost to those same 7-6 teams with outcomes like 135-140? Hell no..team A is likely gonna be one and done while team B could possibly give the top seeds a real fight.

[Evil Genius 0]

HTH tiebreakers are ridiculous.

 

We do head-to-head for 1) amusement, 2) to mimick the NFL because we can, 3) AND it creates drama (the most important element of HTH).

 

Though FF is the drama-king, some of us play in Roto, or season-based Points leagues based on other sports - like Hockey, for example. The object of every pool you have ever, EVVVVVERRRR been in, including FF, is to Score Points. And you accumulate these points on a week-to-week basis or a season-based basis.

 

The structure of HTH masks such truths in FF by creating an illusion/veneer that Total Points don't matter. But ultimately, the primary objective is to accumulate points and tie-breakers should acknowledge that.

 

When you score tons of points in HTH and yet lose, you generally feel a great sense of injustice at the HTH system and its bias towards luck. Why would you want to repeat that injustice when you are metering out playoff positions (and really, the money)?? You wouldn't.

[Matthew's Berry's 0]

Reasonable and sums it up to a T ...

 

HTH tiebreakers are ridiculous.

 

We do head-to-head for 1) amusement, 2) to mimick the NFL because we can, 3) AND it creates drama (the most important element of HTH).

 

Though FF is the drama-king, some of us play in Roto, or season-based Points leagues based on other sports - like Hockey, for example. The object of every pool you have ever, EVVVVVERRRR been in, including FF, is to Score Points. And you accumulate these points on a week-to-week basis or a season-based basis.

 

The structure of HTH masks such truths in FF by creating an illusion/veneer that Total Points don't matter. But ultimately, the primary objective is to accumulate points and tie-breakers should acknowledge that.

 

When you score tons of points in HTH and yet lose, you generally feel a great sense of injustice at the HTH system and its bias towards luck. Why would you want to repeat that injustice when you are metering out playoff positions (and really, the money)?? You wouldn't.

[Juggernauts 0]

I am always of the opinion that each seed is its own entity.

 

if your tie breakers are H2H then total points, then you have to follow it

 

if you have 4 teams for 3 spots lets say 4th - 6th seed I assume

 

4th seed (most total points) start over

5th seed (most total points) of 3 remaining

6th seed (H2H)

 

this is how is should be in your scenario. change it next year if you like but according to what you have said this is how it should end up

 

 

I agree 100%, but that's not the Commish's ruling.

[Juggernauts 0]

HTH tiebreakers are ridiculous.

 

We do head-to-head for 1) amusement, 2) to mimick the NFL because we can, 3) AND it creates drama (the most important element of HTH).

 

Though FF is the drama-king, some of us play in Roto, or season-based Points leagues based on other sports - like Hockey, for example. The object of every pool you have ever, EVVVVVERRRR been in, including FF, is to Score Points. And you accumulate these points on a week-to-week basis or a season-based basis.

 

The structure of HTH masks such truths in FF by creating an illusion/veneer that Total Points don't matter. But ultimately, the primary objective is to accumulate points and tie-breakers should acknowledge that.

 

When you score tons of points in HTH and yet lose, you generally feel a great sense of injustice at the HTH system and its bias towards luck. Why would you want to repeat that injustice when you are metering out playoff positions (and really, the money)?? You wouldn't.

 

It is reasonable and I would agree, except that if I wanted to be in a total points based league, I would. We do head to head and if it's not going to count in the playoffs, why bother? I'm not saying that it's head to head if all four teams have the same record as Matthews Berry thinks. Sure, then it makes sense to use total points, but then you "reset" after each spot is set like Raider's Haters states. Doesn't matter anyway.

[Juggernauts 0]

I do appreciate the opinions though. Thanks.

 

(I was too quick on the submit button.)

[We Tigers 71]

It is reasonable and I would agree, except that if I wanted to be in a total points based league, I would. We do head to head and if it's not going to count in the playoffs, why bother? I'm not saying that it's head to head if all four teams have the same record as Matthews Berry thinks. Sure, then it makes sense to use total points, but then you "reset" after each spot is set like Raider's Haters states. Doesn't matter anyway.

Head to head is already counted in wins and losses. As has already been stated, you can't really mirror the NFL in fantasy in this way. If the rules are contested, I would default to the simplest solution for comparing so many teams, which is total points.

[trich20 0]

In our league, Yahoo posted rules the other day saying the order was

 

- Division record

- Total points

 

We have 2 teams tied for first, one 8-1 division, the other 7-2. The 8-1 was awarded 1st.

 

Then we had a 3 way tie for the last two playoff spots. B and C got in

 

a) 6-7(4-5 div record)(1253 points)

6-7(3-5 div record)(1416 points)

c) 6-7 (3-5 div record)(1313 points)

 

Shouldn't A and B be given the last two spots in order, based on yahoo's tiebreak? The tiebreaks were inconsistent from one case to another in the same league.. I'm the commisioner as team A getting shafted so I don't wanna make a big deal, but I think I'm right... right?

[We Tigers 71]

It looks like the tiebreak for the division winner is based on division record, but all other tiebreakers are based on total points. None of my Yahoo leagues use divisions, but they do default to total points.

[Stewburtx8 67]

In our league, Yahoo posted rules the other day saying the order was

 

- Division record

- Total points

 

We have 2 teams tied for first, one 8-1 division, the other 7-2. The 8-1 was awarded 1st.

 

Then we had a 3 way tie for the last two playoff spots. B and C got in

 

a) 6-7(4-5 div record)(1253 points)

6-7(3-5 div record)(1416 points)

c) 6-7 (3-5 div record)(1313 points)

 

Shouldn't A and B be given the last two spots in order, based on yahoo's tiebreak? The tiebreaks were inconsistent from one case to another in the same league.. I'm the commisioner as team A getting shafted so I don't wanna make a big deal, but I think I'm right... right?

 

Are ALL 3 teams in the same division? If they aren't in the same division, then division records don't apply. You can't break a tie by using divison record amongst teams that aren't in the same division. Most likely they played completely unbalanced schedules. In this case teams B and C should make the playoffs based on total points.

[Evil Genius 0]

We do head to head and if it's not going to count in the playoffs, why bother?

 

You have missed the point.

 

HTH does count. It's how the teams got into the Tie-breaking situation in the first place.

 

It never ceases to amaze how persons solicit opinions, 'appreciate' these opinions, and then quickly dismiss them, because it doesn't match their personal agenda/previously-made decision. Anyone who truly appreciates a sound, rational argument might realize that something they previously thought was correct might actually be flawed.

 

JFK once said "an error does not have to become a mistake until you refuse to correct it". Albiet, he wasn't speaking about Fantasy Football, but for the record, I personally used HTH tie-breakers in the past. So did another local Commish, before me. Both of us realized it was sub-optimal and moved on, years ago. You can chose to learn from our efforts, or not.

 

Guys can and will run Leagues how they want. However, it's disappointing to create a logical argument only to have it fall on the deaf ears of those who aren't ready to listen.

 

Shaw said "we learn from experience...that we learn nothing from experience".

[Gepetto 1,355]

In our league, Yahoo posted rules the other day saying the order was

 

- Division record

- Total points

 

We have 2 teams tied for first, one 8-1 division, the other 7-2. The 8-1 was awarded 1st.

 

Then we had a 3 way tie for the last two playoff spots. B and C got in

 

a) 6-7(4-5 div record)(1253 points)

6-7(3-5 div record)(1416 points)

c) 6-7 (3-5 div record)(1313 points)

 

Shouldn't A and B be given the last two spots in order, based on yahoo's tiebreak? The tiebreaks were inconsistent from one case to another in the same league.. I'm the commisioner as team A getting shafted so I don't wanna make a big deal, but I think I'm right... right?

 

Are you saying that you have 7 or more wins and missed the playoffs to a team with only 6 wins? That is a definite error if true.