Secret school abortions? WTF?!@$

[DankNuggs 305]

And contraceptives are 100% effective, right? No one ever accidentally gets pregnant.

the condom broke = dog ate my homework. Sure they are probably a couple dogs that actually ate the piece of paper, but i don't really buy it... If both sides are interested in responsibly preventing conception, then this issue becomes a very very small one... Next you will throw out the rape pregnancy, which again is several standard deviations from the mean in its occurance... The 'ol .001% justifying the 99.999% of actions...

[IMMensaMind 460]

I have a problem generally with people that pass judgment on others for making a decision that they could never possibly comprehend.

 

How do you know if they could never possibly comprehend?

 

I have a problem with people who try to remove legitimate ability to make determinations from someone who has not directly experienced such a circumstance. That's just lazy argumentation, offered for lack of a real argument.

 

Unless gocolts has been pregnant and been in a position to make this decision, then he shouldn't be calling women who do sluts, skanks, or self-centered because does not now, nor will he ever, have any focking idea what that decision entails or what the personal reasons were behind it. The End.

 

Sorry: not the end. GoColts - and everyone else with a focking brain - understands that such a sentiment is offered more tongue-in-cheek as a stereotypical rip against the behaviour that results in irresponsible pregnancy. He - as well as everyone else with a brain - knows that there are responsible people in there who have unfortunate things happen to them.

 

He - as well as everyone else with a brain - understands that irresponsibility is the mechanism through which this issue has become a huge problem, not responsible behaviour.

 

If you're not willing to cede this, then you may have your "The End", because I will be done talking to an irresponsible and irrational person not interested in discussing the truth.

 

Link to where I said citizens should pay for abortions?

 

Link to where I said you did? I am commenting in defense of the position that this article's theme opposes: private responsibility, and parental involvement. Clearly, this girl got railroaded away from both - and it is something which you have still not commented upon.

 

Link to where I said a child should be led to an abortion without the parents' consent?

 

Link to where you didn't? Since that was the whole point of the OP's article?

 

To answer your last question, it's a person/baby when it can sustain life outside of the womb on it's own. The End.

 

Ah. So we should pull the abortion prospect out of the womb, to give 'em a shot at making it, and if they don't....that's how the abortion was administered?

 

The End.

 

 

itsatip: a baby would not be able to sustain life on its own for many years. Your standard is awful, because it has no legitimate basis. Why should being able to sustain life "on its own" be the proper stance? People exist on life support in hospitals...if you would be consistent, you'd have to be against that.

 

Are you? If not, then please explain the dichotomy in your principles.

 

My post was because I was appalled by gocolts' outburst and gross generalizations and misinformation.

 

Which is why I directly criticized you for ignoring the content of the OP, since that is something to truly be appalled about - and yet, what you chose to attack is so much less serious. Actually calling someone a name in your book justified response, but an example of an abortion pulled off without the parent's consent, and with a minor....that didn't justify a response on your part.

 

You weren't appalled enough.

 

Your principles are jacked, and I'm here to pull out of you your explanations - on a topic which I knew you weren't going to stop talking about.

 

Like any decision, some people regret it, some don't. In my experience on this topic, not one person I know who has made this decision regrets it. But it's their personal focking decision/choice. I could sit here and judge gocolts' or anyone else's life and personal decisions they've made. But it's not my place to do so.

 

 

Like GoColts, I know of several women who have regretted it, and it has haunted them. Two of them, in fact, do not believe in God.

 

That should skewer the claims from those who criticized GoColts anecdotes on the same front - but I'm sure it will not stop an attempt to completely deflect (likely involving some sort of personal attack).

[nikki2200 4]

huh?

 

I wanna find that Gepetto post where he talks about your posts not flowing well.

 

Don't have the energy or time and luckily the law is on my side on this matter.

[IMMensaMind 460]

...but I'm sure it will not stop an attempt to completely deflect (likely involving some sort of personal attack).

 

 

 

huh?

 

I wanna find that Gepetto post where he talks about your posts not flowing well.

 

Don't have the energy or time and luckily the law is on my side on this matter.

 

Like clockwork.

 

[MDC 5,967]

The people who want small government want responsible government. Just like they want responsible decision making... Not using protection because you couldn;t be bothered to get it, then decide after the fact that you don't want to deal with the consequences is irresponsible.. Making contraceptives cheaper and more readily accessible, take away the excuses. Promote responsibility.

 

Here's the thing:

 

There's no medical or even religious consensus on whether a fetus during the early stages of pregnancy is the moral equal of a fully developed human being. I think people should have some basic respect for the potential for a human being and they should use birth control if they don't want to have a kid. But beyond that we're talking about removing a clump of cells. You may think that's a "baby" but that's your subjective call and most of the world doesn't agree. It's not your place to make these kind of moral and health decisions for other people.

 

[IMMensaMind 460]

Here's the thing:

 

There's no medical or even religious consensus on whether a fetus during the early stages of pregnancy is the moral equal of a fully developed human being. I think people should have some basic respect for the potential for a human being and they should use birth control if they don't want to have a kid. But beyond that we're talking about removing a clump of cells. You may think that's a "baby" but that's your subjective call and most of the world doesn't agree. It's not your place to make these kind of moral and health decisions for other people.

 

 

What percentage of abortions could be mutually agreed as simple removal of a clump of cells?

[porkbutt 866]

I've known probably close to ten women personally who had abortions and not a single one of them ever regret it.

 

Anyway, I don't think kids should be having abortions without their parents consent.

you keep awesome company.

 

also, complete bullsh;t

[Recliner Pilot 61]

you keep awesome company.

 

also, complete bullsh;t

Mebbe they were all his. The shame of producing an offspring from this mongoloid far outweighs the shame of an abortion.

[MDC 5,967]

What percentage of abortions could be mutually agreed as simple removal of a clump of cells?

 

I'd say all first trimester abortions, at least.

[DankNuggs 305]

What percentage of abortions could be mutually agreed as simple removal of a clump of cells?

the % of people hell bent on rationalizing poor decisionmaking.

[porkbutt 866]

the % of people hell bent on rationalizing poor decisionmaking.

[IMMensaMind 460]

I'd say all first trimester abortions, at least.

 

 

Um...

 

That's insane. As you can see by the pictures, the argument of "a clump of cells" ends after about 14-20 days.

 

the % of people hell bent on rationalizing poor decisionmaking.

 

 

I think he just proved you correct.

[MDC 5,967]

you keep awesome company.

 

also, complete bullsh;t

 

Anywhere from 25% to 40% of women have an abortion during their lives.

 

They just don't tell you. hth.

[Mungwater 589]

 

Let me facebook my high school girlfriend and see if she has any issues, I'll get back to you

[MDC 5,967]

Um...

 

That's insane. As you can see by the pictures, the argument of "a clump of cells" ends after about 14-20 days.

 

The fetus tops out at 2 inches at the tail end of the first trimester. This is not the equivolent of a born baby and at that point not entitled to the same rights. At least according to the law and most of the world's religions.

 

[IMMensaMind 460]

The fetus tops out at 2 inches at the tail end of the first trimester. This is not the equivolent of a born baby and at that point not entitled to the same rights. At least according to the law and most of the world's religions.

 

 

You said "clump of cells".

 

Either defend that, or retract it as complete crap. You just moved the goal posts.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

At least according to the law and most of the world's religions.

 

 

MDC found religion all the sudden.

[IMMensaMind 460]

Anywhere from 25% to 40% of women have an abortion during their lives.

 

They just don't tell you. hth.

 

Perhaps the niece of Dr. Martin Luther King holds some credibility with you? (Prolly not now, though ):

 

Alveda King, the niece of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., has had two abortions herself and now has serious regrets about her decisions.

 

“I know from my own experience that the weight and trauma of your abortion may not hit you until long after it’s over. For this study to exclude the many women like me only tells me that it was not looking for the truth,”

 

http://www.lifenews.com/2011/01/28/women-who-had-abortions-latest-mental-health-study-bogus/

[MDC 5,967]

You said "clump of cells".

 

Either defend that, or retract it as complete crap. You just moved the goal posts.

 

Are first trimester fetuses not composed of cells?

[IMMensaMind 460]

Are first trimester fetuses not composed of cells?

 

 

So are you. Please step over here while we finally have time for your rescheduled abortion. Scalpel, please.

 

[MDC 5,967]

Perhaps the niece of Dr. Martin Luther King holds some credibility with you? (Prolly not now, though ):

 

 

I don't know who MLK's niece is and I don't think I claimed that NO ONE who had an abortion will ever have regrets, only that none of the women I know who've had abortions regretted their decision later, and the APA at least finds no serious incidence of mental health issues related to abortion.

 

But I'm sure "lifenews" knows more on this topic than the APA.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

So are you. Please step over here while we finally have time for your rescheduled abortion. Scalpel, please.

 

 

Dude is flailing all over the place. He even found God.

[MDC 5,967]

So are you. Please step over here while we finally have time for your rescheduled abortion. Scalpel, please.

 

 

A "clump" of cells, buddy - read carefully.

[DankNuggs 305]

 

 

 

I think he just proved you correct.

I like when people draw abitrary lines in the sand.

[DankNuggs 305]

Because the APA actually does have a study that finds no psychological effects whatsoever from having an abortion, so maybe the women you know are just weak-minded losers.

 

hth

If there was $$$ in it like military PTSD, You bet your azz they'd be coming out of the woodwork looking for $$$... It'd be a Sokolove bonanza we haven't seen since mesothelioma

 

You are seriously trying to argue that there are no psychological effects to having an abortion... LOL..

[Strike 4,092]

I think it's idiotic for anyone to try to gauge the percentage of PEOPLE who might have regrets about an abortion. First of all, I don't think all chicks who do are going to tell people, either whether they've had an abortion or whether they have regrets. Second, you never know WHEN the regrets might happen. I don't talk about personal stuff with you mooks often, if ever, but I'm gonna say this. When I was 19 my GF had an abortion. It was the RIGHT decision at the time. Neither of us were ready to have a kid and both of us were still in college. And, to be honest we didn't even think about putting the kid up for adoption. It was either keep it or abort it. At the time I didn't think much of it quite honestly. About 20 YEARS later I looked back, realized I don't have any kids, and then realized I could have. I still believe it was the right decision at the time, but I DO have regrets regarding it. And I can't speak for her but I do know it affected her a lot because when we broke up she mentioned that she was hurt by my cavalier attitude regarding our loss of a child. I haven't spoken to her since but would love for her to know I've come to appreciate her POV. But you know, us guys mature slower.

[DankNuggs 305]

The fetus tops out at 2 inches at the tail end of the first trimester. This is not the equivolent of a born baby and at that point not entitled to the same rights. At least according to the law and most of the world's religions.

 

This is the sentiment of someone who feels entitled and elite... The type who feels the rights of the next generation should be less than HIS rights... The type who would borrow the country into bankruptcy to raise his standard of living at the expense of future generations.... It all comes down the same line of reasoning. Its selfishness ultimately...

[MDC 5,967]

If there was $$$ in it like military PTSD, You bet your azz they'd be coming out of the woodwork looking for $$$... It'd be a Sokolove bonanza we haven't seen since mesothelioma

 

You are seriously trying to argue that there are no psychological effects to having an abortion... LOL..

 

I didn't make any claims about all women or say there are no psychological effects, only that in my experience most women who have abortions don't regret it, and that's supported by the APA. And I was responding to gocolts who said this girl he doesn't know had wrecked her life. That assumption is ridiculous.

 

I can't even figure out what you're saying in your other rant.

[DankNuggs 305]

I didn't make any claims about all women or say there are no psychological effects, only that in my experience most women who have abortions don't regret it, and that's supported by the APA. And I was responding to gocolts who said this girl he doesn't know had wrecked her life. That assumption is ridiculous.

 

I can't even figure out what you're saying in your other rant.

Proving you have PTSD after getting out of the military is a big deal and defines the level of benefits you receive... If people who previously had abortions had an avenue to get benefits from the PTSD of having an abortion, I'm sure you'd find hoardes of them lining up at Jim Sokolove's offices... That was my point.

 

edit PTSD = Post traumatic stress disorder

[MDC 5,967]

Proving you have PTSD after getting out of the military is a big deal and defines the level of benefits you receive... If people who previously had abortions had an avenue to get benefits from the PTSD of having an abortion, I'm sure you'd find hoardes of them lining up at Jim Sokolove's offices... That was my point.

 

edit PTSD = Post traumatic stress disorder

 

The APA also discounts any real incidence of a PTSD-type condition post-abortion, something that a lot of pro-life groups try to promote.

 

I don't really think $$$ has much to do with this, since the APA would have a financial incentive to promote counseling or whatever for women who've had abortions.

[DankNuggs 305]

The APA also discounts any real incidence of a PTSD-type condition post-abortion, something that a lot of pro-life groups try to promote.

 

I don't really think $$$ has much to do with this, since the APA would have a financial incentive to promote counseling or whatever for women who've had abortions.

It would also prove as negative fodder for access to abortions... my point was hypothetical, its all just self fulfilling prophesies...

[IGotWorms 3,430]

The people who want small government want responsible government. Just like they want responsible decision making... Not using protection because you couldn;t be bothered to get it, then decide after the fact that you don't want to deal with the consequences is irresponsible.. Making contraceptives cheaper and more readily accessible, take away the excuses. Promote responsibility.

 

That's you passing judgment on others and making decisions for them. Doesn't sound like "small government" to me.

[IMMensaMind 460]

That's you passing judgment on others and making decisions for them. Doesn't sound like "small government" to me.

 

Huh? This is about discussion of laws and morality. It is not talking about creating another department.

 

Stop looking to score cheap points on non-existent arguments.

[DankNuggs 305]

That's you passing judgment on others and making decisions for them. Doesn't sound like "small government" to me.

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The poor judgement and poor decisionmaking is on them, not me. I don't want a penny of my tax dollars supporting any of it... big government supports this...

[MDC 5,967]

It would also prove as negative fodder for access to abortions... my point was hypothetical, its all just self fulfilling prophesies...

 

Again, the APA has no financial incentive to disprove mental health issues following abortion - in fact the opposite would be true - so I don't know why you claim bias.

 

This is all just a moral discussion without any endgame, really.

[DankNuggs 305]

Again, the APA has no financial incentive to disprove mental health issues following abortion - in fact the opposite would be true - so I don't know why you claim bias.

 

This is all just a moral discussion without any endgame, really.

its an academic organization = by definition liberal bias... its all self fulfilling prophesies, they clearly want to support the legitimacy of abortions, which is why they claim there are no negative psychological issues with it, which is just plain lunacy....

[MDC 5,967]

its an academic organization = by definition liberal bias... its all self fulfilling prophesies, they clearly want to support the legitimacy of abortions, which is why they claim there are no negative psychological issues with it, which is just plain lunacy....

 

The APA didn't claim there are "no" negative psychological issues related to abortion, just that they're not common. And they would financially benefit from the idea that abortions cause PTSD type disorders since that would theoretically create a new patient base. But I see you're already throwing out charges of "bias" - Republicans' favorite defense whenever reality proves them wrong. I can't argue with someone who's retreated into his own mental Candyland so I guess this conversation is over.

 

[The Next Generation 10]

How does this article have any validity? Secret school abortions...really? Who are they secret from? Everyone the law says should be notified, was. That would be no one. The girl decided to have an abortion, didn't want to talk to her parents about it, and chose to talk to the school counselor. By law, the school counselor cannot inform the parents or they'd be violating the girls rights.

 

Guidance counsellor Helen Bissett said the situation could be an "ethical nightmare", and a number of schools now had wellness centres so girls could see a nurse, not a counsellor.

 

Not knowing how a parent would react was one of the main reasons girls wanted to hide the truth, she said.

 

"In the heat of the moment, parents can say some pretty rough stuff but once they've got through that, they're often really supportive."

She talked to students "long and hard" about getting a family member involved. Girls had to see a doctor for tests, scans and see two certifying consultants before they could have an abortion. The consultants explained the health risks and the girl had to sign a form saying she understood and consented.

"I don't organise any and I never want to," Bissett said. "I go with them to the doctor, but I won't go to a termination."

 

Damned secret abortions!

[Recliner Pilot 61]

How does this article have any validity? Secret school abortions...really? Who are they secret from? Everyone the law says should be notified, was. That would be no one. The girl decided to have an abortion, didn't want to talk to her parents about it, and chose to talk to the school counselor. By law, the school counselor cannot inform the parents or they'd be violating the girls rights.

 

Guidance counsellor Helen Bissett said the situation could be an "ethical nightmare", and a number of schools now had wellness centres so girls could see a nurse, not a counsellor.

 

Not knowing how a parent would react was one of the main reasons girls wanted to hide the truth, she said.

 

"In the heat of the moment, parents can say some pretty rough stuff but once they've got through that, they're often really supportive."

She talked to students "long and hard" about getting a family member involved. Girls had to see a doctor for tests, scans and see two certifying consultants before they could have an abortion. The consultants explained the health risks and the girl had to sign a form saying she understood and consented.

"I don't organise any and I never want to," Bissett said. "I go with them to the doctor, but I won't go to a termination."

 

Damned secret abortions!

 

The OP said it was secret, not illegal.

 

It was kept secret from the parents.

 

HTH

[The Next Generation 10]

The OP said it was secret, not illegal.

 

It was kept secret from the parents.

 

HTH

 

I'm talking about the article. It's a non-story. It's like saying an 18-year-old talked to his school guidance counselor and then signed-up for the Army. Yeah, so, that's their right and they exercised it.