Is it dishonorable for me to throw my final game to improve my playoff matchup?

[TimHauck 1,887]

Now two posters have stated that real football teams have attempted to lose their games. Please give me some examples with proof that teams tried to throw games. Coaches and players jobs are on the line, so they are not going to throw games. Also, please don't give me examples of teams that rest players as they have already gotten home field advantage - these teams are resting players so they do not get injured for the playoffs (fantasy teams do not have any risk of injury - they are playing regardless if they are in your lineup or not). Finally, these teams are still trying to win the game.

 

It is similar to resting players. Yes they're still "trying" but a lot of times when teams rest players they lose (and as shown by this season when the Colts start Curtis Painter at QB does that really qualify as trying? ). Those losses can effect other teams' playoff chances. No, you don't have to "rest" fantasy players, but just like the NFL, you do whatever you feel gives you the best chance to win the championship. If tanking your last matchup does that, then so be it. I've done it a couple times. And just like the NFL, sometimes it works out, an sometimes it doesn't.

[GridIronAssassin#1 0]

Either you think your team is good enough to win it all or not.

 

If you throw a game in FFB you are a punk. End of story.

 

Then it makes everyone else less than a punk if they lose the championship to him. If you're a glass is half empty kind of guy, then this would be your take on it. The thing is, is it can backfire. It's not a given that the matchup is favorable, it's only a perceived concept.

[JtmoneyJag 25]

I think it does suck for the other team and it is a tough call. I don't disagree with either side though. If it isn't in the rules and you want to manage your team as you see fit, then by all means. NFL teams do it every year and sometimes they do have an affect on other teams playoff hopes. You earned the right to do it IMO.

[TimHauck 1,887]

To those saying it is dishonorable, what about this hypothetical situation (and no I'm not doing this so am not trying to get advice):

 

You have your playoff spot locked up, so in preparing for the playoffs, you want to get a head start on defense matchups so you carry 3 Defenses on your team temporarily. To do so, you must drop your kicker/TE which you feel is easily replaced (yes I know that may not be the case). So you play this week with no kicker or TE...is that still dishonorable? Yes I also know people have suggested this and still thought they could win their matchup, but in this case you have no intention of winning.

[RoadLizard 73]

To those saying it is dishonorable, what about this hypothetical situation (and no I'm not doing this so am not trying to get advice):

 

You have your playoff spot locked up, so in preparing for the playoffs, you want to get a head start on defense matchups so you carry 3 Defenses on your team temporarily. To do so, you must drop your kicker/TE which you feel is easily replaced (yes I know that may not be the case). So you play this week with no kicker or TE...is that still dishonorable? Yes I also know people have suggested this and still thought they could win their matchup, but in this case you have no intention of winning.

 

That I dont like - you are literally starting an INVALID lineup which we dont allow. You MUST have 8 starters. Now, if you want to bench a good player and take a chance on a bad player then we usually look the other way since it gets subjective at that point or at least it could be argued or partially justified. But taking a zero due to not even starting a player and leaving a slot blank, that would be a no go deal in our league.

 

Just saying.

[mobb_deep 919]

I think it does suck for the other team and it is a tough call. I don't disagree with either side though. If it isn't in the rules and you want to manage your team as you see fit, then by all means. NFL teams do it every year and sometimes they do have an affect on other teams playoff hopes. You earned the right to do it IMO.

 

As someone else mentioned, NFL teams do it to avoid injuries to top players, not to tamper with the integrity of the playoff's. Benching a fantasy player does nothing to prevent them from being injured in real life, so that whole argument is silly.

 

This is pretty black and white. It's wrong, dooshy and would not be permitted in any league I run or play in.

[steelers2101 7]

I don't see the problem with this, IF it doesn't influence people still trying to get into the playoffs. If you're simply doing to shuffle the seeds of those already in the playoffs, I don't see any problem with it. After all, higher seeds are supposed to have easier matchups, and it is only because of the randomness/luck of fantasy sports that the higher seeds often get worse matchups (though, granted, this happens in reality too).

 

That said, you are asking for it and could pick the wrong poison.

 

I'm trying to make the same decision in one of my leagues. The playoff teams are set. The 5 and 6 seed are set. (7 playoff teams, 1 bye, 2 plays 7, 3 plays 6, 4 plays 5). I can be the 3 or 4 depending on what happens this week.

 

The 5 seed next week:

 

QB: Romo vs. NYG

RB: Foster and Tate @Cincy (or if healthy, Bradshaw @Dal instead of Tate)

WR: DeSean @Mia, and 2 of Manningham @Dal, Decker vs. Chi, James Jones vs. Oak, Vincent Brown vs. Buf

TE: Gronk @Was

K: Crosby vs. Oak

D: Detroit vs. Min

 

The 6 seed next week:

 

QB: Brady @Was

RB: MJD vs.TB, Murray vs. NYG

WR: Nicks @Dal, VJax vs. Buf, Crabtree @Ari

TE: Hernandez @Was

K: Hanson vs. Min

D: Pittsburgh vs. Cle

 

I'm pretty sure I'd rather play the 5 seed, but don't want to get "unlucky" and have the 5 seed somehow outscore the 6 seed.

 

Luckily, I play probably the best team in the league (though he is without AP and DMC), and I may not have to make this decision.

[Matt Mueller 146]

Now two posters have stated that real football teams have attempted to lose their games. Please give me some examples with proof that teams tried to throw games. Coaches and players jobs are on the line, so they are not going to throw games. Also, please don't give me examples of teams that rest players as they have already gotten home field advantage - these teams are resting players so they do not get injured for the playoffs (fantasy teams do not have any risk of injury - they are playing regardless if they are in your lineup or not). Finally, these teams are still trying to win the game.

 

Many teams pull their starters, to rest them sure, but they don't always have their focus on winning.

 

If a fantasy owner 'pulls his starters' sure he is trying to lose more than an NFL team but it's not that far off.

 

 

The biggest thing that would piss me off is if I was another owner than needed say the team you were playing to lose and you threw the game. That I'd ###### about.

[TimHauck 1,887]

Many teams pull their starters, to rest them sure, but they don't always have their focus on winning.

 

If a fantasy owner 'pulls his starters' sure he is trying to lose more than an NFL team but it's not that far off.

 

 

The biggest thing that would piss me off is if I was another owner than needed say the team you were playing to lose and you threw the game. That I'd ###### about.

 

Guess they should've done better during the first 12 weeks of the season then instead of whining about something they can't even control during the last one.

[OD99 0]

First I am completely opposed to this and agree with whoever said you are a douche/tool/whatever word you want to use if you do this but is it just up to you?

 

Do you know if your commish would even allow this? We don't have a specific rule for this but as commish I wouldn't allow it and I know everyone else in the league would back me up. It's one thing to make a decision based on a match-up and sit a stud but to obviously tank a game? Totally lame.

 

For the people who keep trying to bring real NFL into this I think you are wrong too. As mentioned, when they sit players they are making sure they are rested and available for their play-off match-up, not attempting to lose. They also see side benefits from playing bench players because they can gain experience to be used in the future as they mature or in case of injury, etc...there is no real connection between real NFL sitting players and what you are attempting to do.

 

Don't be a ###### - play your normal line-up and see what happens.

[All_The_Way 0]

I've never seen anyone do that in all my years of this until this year and I'm not even sure its going to help him out. He left only his kicker in the line up.

 

and i just figured out why..

 

we are both locked in the playoffs i'm first 9-3 and he's 2nd 8-4. he has the most points scored. We talked yesterday and i mistakenly told him I had bad first week matchups but the final week was good for me. The next 2 in line for the playoffs can only tie him record wise. They need to score over 50 per game to overtake him in the points. this is the reason is he playing nobody on his roster. he wants to stay at 8 wins and have the other guys get 8 wins for a 3 way tie, but if he doesn't play anyone to score points he will fall to 4th because of point total and play me the first week.

[IronCity Steel 0]

First I am completely opposed to this and agree with whoever said you are a douche/tool/whatever word you want to use if you do this but is it just up to you?

 

Do you know if your commish would even allow this? We don't have a specific rule for this but as commish I wouldn't allow it and I know everyone else in the league would back me up. It's one thing to make a decision based on a match-up and sit a stud but to obviously tank a game? Totally lame.

 

For the people who keep trying to bring real NFL into this I think you are wrong too. As mentioned, when they sit players they are making sure they are rested and available for their play-off match-up, not attempting to lose. They also see side benefits from playing bench players because they can gain experience to be used in the future as they mature or in case of injury, etc...there is no real connection between real NFL sitting players and what you are attempting to do.

 

Don't be a ###### - play your normal line-up and see what happens.

 

The best thing to discourage this sort of thing is to require a complete starting lineup. Using MFL, I can set it up so that the system will not permit a team to submit a lineup with a starting position empty. Best case scenario would be that MFL submits the prior week's starting lineup for the upcoming game. Although not perfect in preventing this, it makes it more difficult. Sure, someone could start players that are either injured or non-starters for their NFL teams.

 

In addition, we have a tournament for the teams that don't qualify for the playoffs to play for the right to the following year's first draft pick in hopes that team's don't tank games resulting in teams not really earning a playoff spot.

 

Since this league's inception several years ago, I've never even suspected someone trying to throw a game hoping to get a perceived favorable matchup in the playoffs.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,653]

This!

 

I've done it before; hell yeah! I think I've even manipulated my team MULTIPLE weeks, to get good matchups for the playoffs. And, I've got multiple Superbowl wins to show for it.

I doubt your team is so good year in and year out that you always have the option to throw games just to make good playoff matchups. Lies.

[southcarolina 166]

If only approve of this if you start Joe Webb.

 

Joe Webb is the Ruiner of Fantasy Football, and is the main reason why not one single FF league was played this year in the entire world.

[JtmoneyJag 25]

As someone else mentioned, NFL teams do it to avoid injuries to top players, not to tamper with the integrity of the playoff's. Benching a fantasy player does nothing to prevent them from being injured in real life, so that whole argument is silly.

 

This is pretty black and white. It's wrong, dooshy and would not be permitted in any league I run or play in.

 

If it isn't permitted in your league then there is no argument. If it is, then again, you, IMO, earned the right to do it. If it helps your team when a Championship then ultimately that is what it is all about. People argue here all the time that you should be able to manage your team the way you see fit when we are talking about trades even if they are terrible trades that hurt others in the league, but then want to argue the other side of the fence here. Anyways, I do think it is a douche move, but I can understand why someone would do it.

[JtmoneyJag 25]

One other thing Mobb_Deep. The argument about the NFL sitting players because they are worried about injury is silly to me. The end result is the same. Ultimately those teams are doing what is in the best interest of their team. Same as in Fantasy Football. Again, if you have a rule against it then the point is moot. But if you don't just like in the NFL they don't have a rule for sitting starting players, then I can't see anything wrong with it.

 

Let me ask you... is calling a TO right before a kicker kicks the ball a douche move? Probably, but it is within the rules and they do it all the time. Is it dishonorable? No.

[Bills04 46]

I doubt your team is so good year in and year out that you always have the option to throw games just to make good playoff matchups. Lies.

 

I didn't say I do this "year in and year out." I probably did it in .. 2003 and 2004?

[Matt Mueller 146]

Just got reminded for 2009 when the 14-0 Colts pulled Manning leading by just 5 in the 3rd quarter.

 

Sure they wanted to rest their starters but I also think they wanted to let the Jets sneak into the playoffs.

[TimHauck 1,887]

One other thing Mobb_Deep. The argument about the NFL sitting players because they are worried about injury is silly to me. The end result is the same. Ultimately those teams are doing what is in the best interest of their team. Same as in Fantasy Football. Again, if you have a rule against it then the point is moot. But if you don't just like in the NFL they don't have a rule for sitting starting players, then I can't see anything wrong with it.

 

Let me ask you... is calling a TO right before a kicker kicks the ball a douche move? Probably, but it is within the rules and they do it all the time. Is it dishonorable? No.

 

Pretty much. People are saying this is dishonorable in FF because "you're not trying your hardest to win." But as I said earlier, I'd like to hear someone make a valid argument that playing Curtis Painter over Peyton Manning is trying your hardest to win.

[mobb_deep 919]

You guys are comparing apples and oranges.

 

What relation does the Colts not playing a guy who is injured have to trying to fix fantasy games? Calling a TO before a field goal is the same as cheating? No, there is absolutely zero correlation between the two. If you're going to draw a comparison, try using comparable things.

 

Keep grasping at straws...

[Matt Mueller 146]

You guys are comparing apples and oranges.

 

What relation does the Colts not playing a guy who is injured have to trying to fix fantasy games? Calling a TO before a field goal is the same as cheating?

 

Keep grasping at straws...

 

When the Colts lost they allowed the Jets, a lesser team in most peoples opinion, into the playoffs.

 

The OP is talking about throwing a game, so that he could possibly be matched up with a lesser team in the playoffs.

 

The comparison works for me.

 

Still a douche move.

[Patmos 2]

Now two posters have stated that real football teams have attempted to lose their games. Please give me some examples with proof that teams tried to throw games. Coaches and players jobs are on the line, so they are not going to throw games. Also, please don't give me examples of teams that rest players as they have already gotten home field advantage - these teams are resting players so they do not get injured for the playoffs (fantasy teams do not have any risk of injury - they are playing regardless if they are in your lineup or not). Finally, these teams are still trying to win the game.

 

I recently saw Jimmy Johnson on TV (I think it was during Fox pre-game, but I can't say for sure) talking about the "Suck for Luck" sweepstakes, and he said he benched some good players deliberately to get better draft picks the following year -- he then got his big three and reeled off several Super Bowl wins...

 

For the record, just because he did it doesn't mean I think it's okay...but, as an Indy fan, I am secretly glad we are winless.

[mobb_deep 919]

A better comparison would be Donaghy betting on NBA games he refereed. He manipulated the outcome of games for personal gains. That's reallyy what the OP is doing, when it comes down to it. Just MO...

[Matt Mueller 146]

This is an interesting topic to me.

 

Part of me thinks you have the right to the league to win every game.

 

Part of me thinks you have the right to manage your team how you want, WITHOUT colluding with other players.

 

 

 

During the season, I was watching the battle of the 1st and 4th place teams in my league very closely. The 4th place team decided not to play a kicker and decided to keep some of his bench players that were on byes instead as depth.

 

I know some leagues have rules against this but we aren't quite so organized.

 

I wanted to scream to high heavens b/c a loss by the current 1st place team would have vaulted me into the lead but at the same time part of me wanted me to let him manage his own team as he saw fit.

 

Anyway, the 4th place team that didn't start a kicker won his game and in the end put himself in a better position for the rest of the season.

 

 

A different angle but what's everyone's take on something like this?

 

Do you have the right to not start a kicker/D or another position if you wanted to hold onto depth during byes?

[Patmos 2]

I play in a league with a shallow bench, and I seem to lose 3 games virtually every year. Two of these come during bye weeks because I will not sacrifice my playoff team configuration for a win during the season. This strategy has paid off for me huge over the years as I am continually playing in the championship game (not every year, but 8 of 10 years, and the other two I lost in the earlier rounds of the playoffs). And yes, I quietly laugh at people who manage their teams to "get into the playoffs and then worry about it." Bottom line...I would quit the league if they forced me to field a complete team during bye weeks.

[Matt Mueller 146]

I play in a league with a shallow bench, and I seem to lose 3 games virtually every year. Two of these come during bye weeks because I will not sacrifice my playoff team configuration for a win during the season. This strategy has paid off for me huge over the years as I am continually playing in the championship game (not every year, but 8 of 10 years, and the other two I lost in the earlier rounds of the playoffs). And yes, I quietly laugh at people who manage their teams to "get into the playoffs and then worry about it." Bottom line...I would quit the league if they forced me to field a complete team during bye weeks.

 

Thanks. In the end, I can see both viewpoints but the libertarian in my likes this.

[TimHauck 1,887]

You guys are comparing apples and oranges.

 

What relation does the Colts not playing a guy who is injured have to trying to fix fantasy games? Calling a TO before a field goal is the same as cheating? No, there is absolutely zero correlation between the two. If you're going to draw a comparison, try using comparable things.

 

Keep grasping at straws...

 

I was referring to several years ago when the Colts would consistently rest Manning at the end of the year (maybe Painter wasn't always the backup back then). Yes, it was to avoid the risk of injury, but by not playing Manning for the whole game they were not really trying that hard to win, IMO.

[nygiants 0]

I need another team to beat the team he is playing this week for me to get in. So I made a lopsided trade with that team to improve his lineup (not at the expense of my lineup though). Even if I see this team in the playoffs I don't care, as long as I made it too...just have to make it into the dance and anything can happen. This is a little different scenario but you do whatever it takes to win as long as it's within the rules. Sportmanship? F Sportsmanship. It's fantasy football for crying out loud...we play an imaginary game every week.

[seadog54 20]

That I dont like - you are literally starting an INVALID lineup which we dont allow. You MUST have 8 starters. Now, if you want to bench a good player and take a chance on a bad player then we usually look the other way since it gets subjective at that point or at least it could be argued or partially justified. But taking a zero due to not even starting a player and leaving a slot blank, that would be a no go deal in our league.

 

Just saying.

 

My league doesn't require 8 starters. If you don't want to start a QB, then you don't have to start a QB. Illegal rosters in my league are only for more players per position than allowed. I think it's dumb to REQUIRE each team to have 8 starters. Sometimes going into a Monday night game, if you hold a small lead, you can still bench that player to ensure a victory. Of if you have players on bye and don't want to play with a kicker or defense for 1 week, it's up to you. But we do have weekly $50 high score prizes, so if you want to lose on purpose, you lose out on a chance at $50 each week.

[DrG 94]

Better to keep your edge by winning.

 

There are guys in my league who are out of it and working the wire in order to be spoilers. If it doesn't feel right don't do it

[southcarolina 166]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf04zlExM8c

[madd futher mucker 36]

If you even have to ask, then you are beyond hope. The fact that you would post this speaks volumes about you.

 

Even if there is no stated rule aganst it, common sense should give you your answer. How many guys do you think would want to play in the league with you ever again? How may would trust you as a business partner? As a friend?

 

If this is not agaist your league rules or by-laws it is only because your commissioner thought that nobody would stoop that low. Guess what - assuming there is an offchance you are invited back into the league next year, it is highly probable there will be a rule prohibiting this. It would be only appropriate that they call it the duchebag rule and name it in your honor.

[Foghorn Leghorn 0]

If you even have to ask, then you are beyond hope. The fact that you would post this speaks volumes about you.

 

Even if there is no stated rule aganst it, common sense should give you your answer. How many guys do you think would want to play in the league with you ever again? How may would trust you as a business partner? As a friend?

 

If this is not agaist your league rules or by-laws it is only because your commissioner thought that nobody would stoop that low. Guess what - assuming there is an offchance you are invited back into the league next year, it is highly probable there will be a rule prohibiting this. It would be only appropriate that they call it the duchebag rule and name it in your honor.

 

Agreed 100%. I think it's safe to say the OP doesn't have any friends in the pool....or any friends at all, for that matter....

[thesitedoc 5]

As long as you have a valid lineup and you are not colluding with anyone else, then you start whomever you want that gives you the best chance to win your championship.

 

It's that simple. If you think the better chance to win in the playoffs is to go up against team B instead of team A and losing to team C helps create that matchup then by all means do what you can within the rules to lose to team C.

 

Again, all we are talking about here is submitting a less then perceived optimal lineup. There is no lopsided trade between two teams that gives another team a huge advantage to keep another team out of the playoffs nor is there any starting of injured players.

 

Whether my victory or loss determines if team C or team D makes it into the playoffs, it is not my responsibility to help either team into the playoffs. It was their responsibility during the year to have a good enough team to get in on their own.

[TimHauck 1,887]

If you even have to ask, then you are beyond hope. The fact that you would post this speaks volumes about you.

 

Even if there is no stated rule aganst it, common sense should give you your answer. How many guys do you think would want to play in the league with you ever again? How may would trust you as a business partner? As a friend?

 

If this is not agaist your league rules or by-laws it is only because your commissioner thought that nobody would stoop that low. Guess what - assuming there is an offchance you are invited back into the league next year, it is highly probable there will be a rule prohibiting this. It would be only appropriate that they call it the duchebag rule and name it in your honor.

 

I actually LOL'ed at this post. "If you even have to ask, then you are beyond hope." LMAO. You guys are acting like being "dishonorable" at fantasy football means you're going to hell or something. Thank Tebow it doesn't. Honestly the words "dishonorable" and "fantasy football" shouldn't even be used in the same sentence.

[swirvenirvin 25]

No I plan to do it in my keeper league.

 

Next years draft order is based on where you finish minus the playoff winner. I have clinched a spot but cant do any better. It's a 10 team league and there are no dominant teams and that is including mine. So not doing for positional because it is too hard to figure out what will happen, but doing for better draft pick in next years draft. And yes I am sure I will lose because of it but oh well, my team isnt that good anyways for a 10 team league I really dont expect to rattle off 3 straight wins with this lineup going.

 

Tebow

C. Johnson

Flavor of the week, Starks, Bradshaw, K. Smith, Gerhart, L. Ball, J. Battle

Desean Jackson

Greg Jennings

Gronk.

 

Well just so you know I benched Chris Johnson (Gerhart) and Jennings S. Moss , and I am still going to win. They only thing I did was cost myself $20 for high week. There is your karma for you.