BattleshipLorenzen 3 Posted December 19, 2011 IMO the solution is both simple yet almost needlessly complicated. Combine the double-header and defense-subtracts approaches. Luck plays a big role in who wins the H2H mathcup. As has been pointed out, having IDPs or DSTs subtract from the opposing team doesn't mathematically affect the H2H matchup. But it WILL affect the scoring game. In this scenario, you CAN influence your opponent's chances to win the scoring matchup by playing good defense. In this scenario, playing against a team with a monster defense is actually scary, because they can beat you H2H and cause you to lose in the scoring game as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nzoner 937 Posted December 19, 2011 Thinsg we do to even out the HTH league. $80 entry fee $20 a week in high weeks $35 to total points winner 6th playoff spot if given to the team who has scored the most points that is not in the top 5 places. So if you are that high scoring team and are just unlucky, you probably still com away with around $100 from multiple high weeks and the most points. Ours is $160 entry (12 team league) We give $10 per week high score $50 at season's end to the highest one week QB,RB,WR and DEF/ST $40 for highest scoring month Sept thru Nov and $120 to Highest scoring team Dec to keep all teams interested Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JtmoneyJag 25 Posted December 19, 2011 Is a league where there are no playoffs and the best team wins every year that inconceivable to some of you? No, but whining about it is. Listen, I'm okay with both, whatever floats your boat. But don't choose to play in a certain format then whine about it when you don't get your way. Personally, total points would seem boring and H2H offers excitement especially towards the end. Total points normally is pretty much wrapped up weeks before the season is over, but if that is what you like then great, there are plenty of people who play in those types of leagues. FYI, I was leader in points in 2 out of 3 leagues and knocked out of the first playoff game in one and am in the Championship game in the other. When I lost I didn't start whining about it, just is what it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JtmoneyJag 25 Posted December 19, 2011 Any league that is only based on H2H is dumb. It's all luck then. Wrong. Getting to the playoffs takes plenty of skill. The playoff themselves do involve luck. I've made the playoffs 4 out of 6 years in the same league, placing 1st twice, 3rd once and am in the championship game again this year with a chance to be 3 time champ. That isn't luck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JtmoneyJag 25 Posted December 19, 2011 do total points REALLY determine the best team? The highest scoring team in one of my H2H leagues is 6-8. Why? Because his team has been wildly inconsistent. He scored highest week for 3 monster weeks. While 5 other weeks, he was near the bottom of the scoring. While, I was 3rd in scoring but ended up with a 10-4 record since I was much more consistent. at the end of the day, the most points really doesn't determine who had the best team if you consider consistency. H2H leagues will determine that. Great point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT 137 Posted December 19, 2011 It's fantasy football. Try to delude yourselves all you want, but it's driven by luck regardless the format. You control player acquisition and start/sit. That's it. Real team success, weather, injuries, coaches decisions, offensive/defensive systems are all out of our control. The NFL schedule, though you may be able to work it in your favor over the short haul (ie playoff matchups) is still subject to all the vagaries listed above. Some guys spend more time/effort working the ww, have a more consistent draft strategy, and/or are better at working trades. That explains why certain players, especially in leagues that have had a fairly consistent group of contestants over the years, seem to win or lose more consistently. But it's luck. I've won with crappy teams, lost with good ones and vice versa. In any contest where you have no influence on how much your opponent scores, there's more luck involved than anything else. Oh, and OP is a crybaby. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thesitedoc 5 Posted December 20, 2011 do total points REALLY determine the best team? The highest scoring team in one of my H2H leagues is 6-8. Why? Because his team has been wildly inconsistent. He scored highest week for 3 monster weeks. While 5 other weeks, he was near the bottom of the scoring. While, I was 3rd in scoring but ended up with a 10-4 record since I was much more consistent. at the end of the day, the most points really doesn't determine who had the best team if you consider consistency. H2H leagues will determine that. Not sure I understand. When u draft you draft players who are going to score the most points for the year. So why does scoring the most points not equate to having the best team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaintsInDome2006 441 Posted December 20, 2011 I never understand this argument. One guy puts the work in, has superior knowledge and has a great draft. Ok, then what? He leads in points because of his great draft, hardly even needs to ever pick up new players because his bench is so deep. Another guy, maybe doesn't have a good draft. Either doesn't put in the homework or just misses. But then team no. 2 spends time during the season playing matchups, TAKING RISKS, picking up the right players maybe well in advance for just the right game, doing the homework week in and week out just to survive..... but when that team beats team no. 1 it's just "bad luck", right? People need to reevaluate what is meant by luck, there is (almost) no such thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
plasma george 62 Posted December 20, 2011 No reason not to do both, see sig. We have a $175 entry, 10teamer, 20+ years, and have 2 Titles. Pot gets to about $2400. SuperBowl winner and Total Points winner, 35% SuperBowl runnerup and #2 Total Points, 15% #3 Total Points, entry fee Right now we have #1 in Total Points in the Superbowl, dude's team is stacked, and he could take 70% of $2400. I hope not, as Commissioner and inventor of this payout, I like seeing the money get spread around. The other owner in the SB isn't in the Total Points Race, so it will be 4 different owners winning money. Last year our #1 didn't make the playoffs and we had 5 different winners. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,850 Posted December 20, 2011 Not sure I understand. When u draft you draft players who are going to score the most points for the year. So why does scoring the most points not equate to having the best team. so consistency doesn't matter? sure, I guess if your league is just based on total points it doesn't, but that's yet another reason why H2H leagues involve more strategy. hate to bring up the real life comparisons again, but as has been mentioned, it doesn't matter how many points teams score as long as they win the game. The 2010 Phillies scored more runs than the Giants in the NLCS, but they lost the series 4 games to 2. And no, they weren't the better team. They won one game by 5 but lost 3 by 1. That one game skews the average. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boilermaker04 11 Posted December 20, 2011 FF is luck like poker is luck. Sometimes you just don't have the cards and get beat. Sometimes the best hand doesn't win. Sometimes you win when you know you shouldn't have. Sometimes you notice the guys that are always playing last are either the regular winners or the ones who regularly lose the most money. And sometimes its best to just say fock it and grab another beer and not worry about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swirvenirvin 25 Posted December 20, 2011 I never understand this argument. People need to reevaluate what is meant by luck, there is (almost) no such thing. Seriously? Wow?? DUMB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,850 Posted December 20, 2011 luck = preparedness + opportunity /cliche Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
montana 89 Posted December 20, 2011 Oh jeez. Now we (the Commishs) have to give participation trophies out in Fantasy Football? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
p00h 85 Posted December 20, 2011 hey wait, it's luck deciding who your starters are and who should be on the bench, so lets just count points for the whole team. Oh wait, total pt leagues already do that. You know what else is luck, the draft. I mean one guy gets McCoy, and the next guy gets DMC. Not fair. Lets all just own a small piece of each player. Hmm, wait a second, that would lead to everyone tying every week. Yeah, that's the way it should be. That's FF at its best... morons Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgcrawfish 232 Posted December 20, 2011 I led both of my leagues in total points this season, but due to bad luck on matchups I didn't win my division in either. So I still made the playoffs in both leagues but lost my first round matchup ending my season. To make things worse it appears I am going to have the top score in both leagues this weeekend. Yes I am whining big time but it is very frustrating that I had two of my best teams ever and didn't walk away with any earnings, our league pays out only on the SB and runner up winner. I have heard of many other formats that are still H2H but have some safeguards to remove some of the luck. Anyone else get burnt this year because of bad H2H luck? guys in my main $$$ league can't figure out why I go so deep every nearly every year in the playoffs. I draft with an eye on Week 14-16 schedules and adjust all season long on WW to players I think might help me then. Obviously you can never fully tell at the beginning of a season which teams will be weak at the end, that's why you adjust on WW and trades as the season progresses so you can get the better matchups when they count. I've played in leagues where they do total points with no playoffs all the way up to Week 16. The problem is that if one team gets on a really hot run during several weeks of the season, you may never see them again. Even if they're only average during the last 3-4 weeks of the season, it's hard to make up a couple hundred points. I've also played in a league where top 8 (of 12) scoring teams went into a playoff format that took the top scoring teams each week for a playoff. However, even though it's not "head to head" and comes out a bit more "fair", you can still get screwed in the last week by a team that has a fluke huge week or a fluke bad week by you. It's educated guessing, and there's no guarantees. Now quit whining. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LSUtiger 9 Posted December 20, 2011 I led both of my leagues in total points this season, but due to bad luck on matchups I didn't win my division in either. So I still made the playoffs in both leagues but lost my first round matchup ending my season. To make things worse it appears I am going to have the top score in both leagues this weeekend. Yes I am whining big time but it is very frustrating that I had two of my best teams ever and didn't walk away with any earnings, our league pays out only on the SB and runner up winner. I have heard of many other formats that are still H2H but have some safeguards to remove some of the luck. Anyone else get burnt this year because of bad H2H luck? :cry: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JtmoneyJag 25 Posted December 20, 2011 Not sure I understand. When u draft you draft players who are going to score the most points for the year. So why does scoring the most points not equate to having the best team. It depends what your definition of "best team" is. I personally would prefer to have the most consistent team, week in and week out, but that is because I play in H2H and that is how I draft. I don't like boom or bust guys like Vincent Jackson. I may even prefer a guy who scores a few less points over him if the guy is more conistent week to week. You take a different approach in H2H IMO then you would in points only league. You also, like someone else said, put a lot into the match-ups from week 14-16 with waiver wire and trades. Of course there is luck involved, but if you, year in and year out, put yourself in the best position to win, you will probably do so more often then not compared to your opponents. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BattleshipLorenzen 3 Posted December 20, 2011 Oh jeez. Now we (the Commishs) have to give participation trophies out in Fantasy Football? Actually, we DO give participation trophies in my league ...in the form of draft order. Playoff teams are at the bottom like normal, with the SB winner last, etc. Non-playoff teams are basically reverse order based on points scored--most points for a non-playoff team gets 1st pick, second gets 2nd, etc. There is no incentive to lose in this league except for the consolation round of the playoffs (3rd vs. 4th). It's a 10-team, 3-player keeper league, and keepers are redrafted after 3 years. Foster, Rice, MJD, and maybe Turner are going to be available next year. Players fight for those draft picks no matter their records or standing with regard to playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kopy 568 Posted December 20, 2011 We use VP's over at MFL. H2H format. Winner gets 2 points. top 4 scoring for the week get 2 points next 4 (5 through 8 in a 12 team league) gets 1 point. Top 6 teams in VP's make the playoffs. The 3 division winners also get a money bonus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stewburtx8 67 Posted December 20, 2011 Not sure I understand. When u draft you draft players who are going to score the most points for the year. So why does scoring the most points not equate to having the best team. 12 team PPR league. I finished 8-6 and and in 5th place in the standings (missed the playoffs). I led the league in points with 1797.17. My team was very consistent, never scoring less than 103 points but never scoring more than 145 points. Yes, I was unlucky not to make the playoffs. But I would definitely not say I had the best team. Another team finished with 1796.27 points. He finished 11-3 and won the regular season. But he had one week where he only put up 55 points. He loaded up his bye weeks in week 7 and basically took a loss that week. His team was pretty dominant the rest of the season. In a total points league, I would of won the league. He would of been punished for one bad week and A LOT of dominant weeks. 7 teams in the league finished with at least 1700 total points. It was very close. I don't think total points is the end all in determining the "best" team. I prefer H2H because in the end, it often rewards consistency. Yes, a team like mine this past season could get "unlucky" to miss the playoffs. But I know there have been other years where I was "lucky" to make the playoffs or lucky to win the regular season championship, etc. It just adds to the fun in my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted December 20, 2011 12 team PPR league. I finished 8-6 and and in 5th place in the standings (missed the playoffs). I led the league in points with 1797.17. My team was very consistent, never scoring less than 103 points but never scoring more than 145 points. Yes, I was unlucky not to make the playoffs. But I would definitely not say I had the best team. Another team finished with 1796.27 points. He finished 11-3 and won the regular season. But he had one week where he only put up 55 points. He loaded up his bye weeks in week 7 and basically took a loss that week. His team was pretty dominant the rest of the season. In a total points league, I would of won the league. He would of been punished for one bad week and A LOT of dominant weeks. 7 teams in the league finished with at least 1700 total points. It was very close. I don't think total points is the end all in determining the "best" team. I prefer H2H because in the end, it often rewards consistency. Yes, a team like mine this past season could get "unlucky" to miss the playoffs. But I know there have been other years where I was "lucky" to make the playoffs or lucky to win the regular season championship, etc. It just adds to the fun in my opinion. All of my Total Points Leagues play through week 16. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FAN OF STEEL 0 Posted December 21, 2011 I have been doing H2H leagues for 15 yrs, and like most FF players I have had my share of getting "screwed" with being the highest scoring team and not making the playoffs, etc...so this year I joined a Total Points league...I kept my H2H leagues also, but figured I'd try the total points thing... Well, I absolutely HATED it. I am telling you, if you enjoy the "high" of the competitiveness of FF, then you will find Total Points soooo boring. It's like that kitchen gadget..."Set it & forget it". I like rooting for my players AND against my opponents players and with Total Points, it's not the same...you can't root against the rest of the NFL. I understand the frustrations that come with H2H leagues, but I'll take that over the boredom that I experienced in my 1st and last year in a Total Points league. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
