Dan Marino going down

[Dan 66]

Okay, barring injuries to Drew Brees and Tom Brady . . . immediately . . . Dan Marino's 27 year old passing yardage record is going down, and in a big way. Brees is on pace to throw over 5400 yards, Brady on pace for over 5200. Further . . . Eli Manning (4362) and Aaron Rodgers (4360) have outside shots, though hitting 5000 is 15 yards away from their average/game.

 

Here's the thing, though. Dan Marino accomplished what he did when the defense wasn't so very restricted, especially in pass coverage, and in a league that was much more balanced in run vs. pass. This season, four QBs will pass or threaten that impressive record. Six QBs are already over 4000 yards. 10 QBs are on pace to finish over 4000 yards, matching the accomplishment of 2009. In 1984, three QBs finished over 4000, two of them (Neil Lomax, Phil Simms) doing it in career years. Well, three, clearly.

 

That the NFL is much more of a passing league now is undeniable. That the NFL wants more scoring and less defense seems clear enough to avoid serious debate. But I wonder if this cheapens this accomplishment in your minds? Didn't we just figure this was a matter of time in the arcade version of the NFL that we have now?

 

I am not in any way denigrating the quality of the QBs approaching history this season. I am merely looking for perspective before Mr. Marino gives a gracious concession speech . . . probably on Christmas.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

Sort of like when 4 guys break the home run record that stood for so long.

 

When you have 3 guys who are that close in one season, it really does cheapen it a bit.

[swamp dog 0]

it gives me greater appreciation for marino, that's for sure.

 

keep in mind this was back in the era when qbs didn't wear a red hankey in their back pocket and a "don't hit me" practice jersey.

 

rodgers would have been destroyed back in the era. obliterated. the way he whines now when anyone lays a hand on him? lol...wuss. can you imagine marino doing a dumbass heavy-weight belt move when he threw a td--or worse yet, channeling his inner lady gaga like rodgers was doing yesterday? what a twit.

 

marino also did it no matter what the conditions. he put up the stats with guys in his face. as we saw yesterday, rodgers needs a lot of time and a lot of things to be just right to put up those pretty stats. throw even a tiny wrinkle in the timing, and he's suddenly pretty average.

[mgs316 14]

Marino's 1984 is still the best and will always be the best considering the rule changes and the fact people can't really destroy his records since they are so high already.

 

Today's defenses can't touch the QB or WR, it's a simple fact.

 

The fact that a handlful of players are making a run at the record shows how the league has radically tipped the scale towards passing.

 

And when Dan broke the TD record he didn't just beat it by 1 or 2, he beat it by 12 I believe. Think 36 by Unitas was the previous record or something like that. He showed what the possible upper limit of TD's were and it was enforced by the fact that Brady and Manning only beat him by 1 and 2 TD's in this day and age.

 

Plus Dan didn't dink and dunk, he'd drop back and chuck it down field. He'd tell Duper and clayton, screw the route, just get open. Fun to watch.

[Matthew's Berry's 0]

What Marino did was amazing and fun to watch. But you can't just say "the NFL is more of a passing game now" and not give credit to Brady and Brees. When Marino made his record he was passing it just as much as these guys are so I don't buy that.

 

You also state "defenses aren't the same and the rules allowing them to play D has changed to favor the WR and QB" ... true, but you should also include other rule changes that DON'T favor the QB/WR:

 

Game Clock: the clock starts once the ball is placed even after the WR/RB goes out of bounds, hence "shortening" today's games and opportunites. Back then the clock "stopped" and didn't start until hiked.

 

Two Feet In Bounds: now a CB can push a WR out of bounds while in the air and not get credit for a catch. Back then it was up to the referree to judge if the WR would of landed inbounds, therefore crediting him a catch.

 

Legal Catch: Back then you take a step after catching it and it's a catch, and if you put two hands on the ball in the endzone it's a TD. Nowadays you have to almost take 5 steps, get up with the ball, squeeze if for another two seconds, THEN allowed to hand it to the ref for it to be a completion.

 

 

So while I agree Marino was amazing and the rules were "different", you can't just say "oh D's hands are now tied compared to then" and totally discount what Brees/Brady/Rodgers are accomplishing.

[unloopme 4]

So while I agree Marino was amazing and the rules were "different", you can't just say "oh D's hands are now tied compared to then" and totally discount what Brees/Brady/Rodgers are accomplishing.

Uhhhh....yes you can.

[Dan 66]

Not discounting what they've done. I even indicated in my original post that I was not doing so. It's extremely impressive. Consider that Brees is about to break 5000 for the second time. THAT's impressive.

 

However, the numbers cannot be dismissed. I hear your differences that "aide" the 80s' receivers, but the numbers clearly indicate that today's NFL is more open to big passing numbers.

Consider this: before Peyton Manning did it, no QB in history had thrown for 4000 yards in three consecutive seasons. It has now been five times.

Consider this: 3000 yards passing used to be an impressive benchmark for a quality QB. If a QB misses 3000 yards today, then he is below average.

 

The bar has been raised in the passing game; the numbers are higher, and expected to be. The numbers are still impressive, and the feat is a laudable accomplishment. I am a Drew Brees fan; I'm happy for him and the mark he's about to set. But the like the TD record-breaking performances before this, I'm more impressed by the former.

[Matthew's Berry's 0]

Not discounting what they've done. I even indicated in my original post that I was not doing so. It's extremely impressive. Consider that Brees is about to break 5000 for the second time. THAT's impressive.

 

However, the numbers cannot be dismissed. I hear your differences that "aide" the 80s' receivers, but the numbers clearly indicate that today's NFL is more open to big passing numbers.

Consider this: before Peyton Manning did it, no QB in history had thrown for 4000 yards in three consecutive seasons. It has now been five times.

Consider this: 3000 yards passing used to be an impressive benchmark for a quality QB. If a QB misses 3000 yards today, then he is below average.

 

The bar has been raised in the passing game; the numbers are higher, and expected to be. The numbers are still impressive, and the feat is a laudable accomplishment. I am a Drew Brees fan; I'm happy for him and the mark he's about to set. But the like the TD record-breaking performances before this, I'm more impressed by the former.

 

I was a kid when Marino SHATTERED the records in '84, but I bet there were people saying back then "well, it's a different game now ... more 3-5 WR sets are used ... the TE is utilized as a WR more than a blocker ... the QB and WR get to wear protective helmets instead of leather ... etc".

 

These conversations happen all the time a record is threatened. The game evolves, strategies change, rules get tweaked (usually for the better). Probably in a few years one of Jim Brown's records will be in sight and people will say "the game has changed, you can't tackle the RB the same anymore, etc."

 

[Dan 66]

I was a kid when Marino SHATTERED the records in '84, but I bet there were people saying back then "well, it's a different game now ... more 3-5 WR sets are used ... the TE is utilized as a WR more than a blocker ... the QB and WR get to wear protective helmets instead of leather ... etc".

 

These conversations happen all the time a record is threatened. The game evolves, strategies change, rules get tweaked (usually for the better). Probably in a few years one of Jim Brown's records will be in sight and people will say "the game has changed, you can't tackle the RB the same anymore, etc."

 

 

True enough. Yet many still consider Jim Brown as the greatest running back ever. They have an argument.

 

You're right; the game is constantly changing. And so . . . we create the discussion. Because that's how we attempt to measure across generations.

[Matthew's Berry's 0]

No doubt Dan Marino and the passing game was not the norm back then ("defense and running the ball wins championships"). So of course his records look "unbelievable", because Miami was doing something different ... teams weren't playing that way (and for reason, it wasn't successful in order to win the big games).

 

 

So just because there are multiple players threatening the record doesn't necessarily mean it's because of rule changes, simply could mean Drew Brees and Tom Brady are actually pretty good QBs. Dan Marino does own the record for most past attempts over 5 years, so to me what is happening NOW and what happened to DAN is very comparable. It's just back then he was the only one playing that style where today many many QBs are playing that style.

 

Just baffles me why people get so damn protective over records.

No need for (*), move along ...

[Cruzer 1,996]

I was a kid when Marino SHATTERED the records in '84, but I bet there were people saying back then "well, it's a different game now ...

W/out question - and the man generally recognized as the one who started the new era was Don Coryell. "Air Coryell" totally changed the landscape of football - from schemes, to personnel, to the very rules of football. Even as a Cowboys fan I would marvel at what Dan Fouts could do and loved watchnig them play.

[WR Guru 31]

If young Marino played now with the kinds of skill position players that Brees and Brady and Manning have had, the points he would put up would be frightening. Marino set those records with Clayton and Duper, who were smurfs, and I can't even remember who the starting RB was on that team (Tony Nathan?). The Dolphins always did a sh!t job of putting talent around Marino, which is a shame.

[unloopme 4]

If young Marino played now with the kinds of skill position players that Brees and Brady and Manning have had, the points he would put up would be frightening. Marino set those records with Clayton and Duper, who were smurfs, and I can't even remember who the starting RB was on that team (Tony Nathan?). The Dolphins always did a sh!t job of putting talent around Marino, which is a shame.

+1000

[posty 2,849]

If young Marino played now with the kinds of skill position players that Brees and Brady and Manning have had, the points he would put up would be frightening. Marino set those records with Clayton and Duper, who were smurfs, and I can't even remember who the starting RB was on that team (Tony Nathan?). The Dolphins always did a sh!t job of putting talent around Marino, which is a shame.

 

Woody Bennett was the #1 rusher (in yards), Nathan was #2...