josepaz2 1 Posted September 4, 2012 Agreed and why I'm starting both in my 14-team league! Anyone have a good estimate of the Cheifs RB output as a whole? Just trying to get a grip on what kind of #'s the tandem could put up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
travis_henrys_baby_momma 10 Posted September 4, 2012 How does he look? He looks like Forrest Gump back in his Alabama days. Fastest guy on the field, but not really a football player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmbryant09 1 Posted September 4, 2012 Although he doesn't fully play like one, Charles is still built like a scat-back. And although Todd Haily is indeed a moron, he was right in not giving Charles 300+ touches. The dude is the ultimate compliment to a bruising rusher, he can't shoulder a full workload by himself. Charles owners should hope Hillis stays upright, because through-out the course of the year they'll keep defenses on their toes and ensure that each other stays fresh. This isn't some RBBC or Charles being forced to share carries with a dinosaur, this is a legit rushing tandem that can lead the NFL. How the hell do you figure?!?!? He can't handle a full workload? The ONLY time he's been given the rock like a full-time back, he produced 1,096 total yards and 7 TD's in 8 games! In 2010, Charles had the 2nd highest ypc average on his carries 10-20. He's the same size as Chris Johnson, but 8 pounds heavier. In games when Charles was given 20+ touches, he's averaged 160 yards a game and 7 yards per attempt! (1,124 yards on 159 carries). How can you possibly say he can't handle a full workload? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kent 228 Posted September 4, 2012 Hillis got more carries than Charles in the last pre-season game. Which means Charles is going to start and get most of the looks when its for real. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eagles115 23 Posted September 4, 2012 Where do you get this 75% of the carries for Charles nonsense? Gotta love the forum members that make stuff up out of thin air! you're a focking idiot to think he wont! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcmmidwest 98 Posted September 4, 2012 How the hell do you figure?!?!? He can't handle a full workload? The ONLY time he's been given the rock like a full-time back, he produced 1,096 total yards and 7 TD's in 8 games! In 2010, Charles had the 2nd highest ypc average on his carries 10-20. He's the same size as Chris Johnson, but 8 pounds heavier. In games when Charles was given 20+ touches, he's averaged 160 yards a game and 7 yards per attempt! (1,124 yards on 159 carries). How can you possibly say he can't handle a full workload? duh he drafted hillis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SameSongNDance 0 Posted September 4, 2012 How the hell do you figure?!?!? He can't handle a full workload? The ONLY time he's been given the rock like a full-time back, he produced 1,096 total yards and 7 TD's in 8 games! In 2010, Charles had the 2nd highest ypc average on his carries 10-20. He's the same size as Chris Johnson, but 8 pounds heavier. In games when Charles was given 20+ touches, he's averaged 160 yards a game and 7 yards per attempt! (1,124 yards on 159 carries). How can you possibly say he can't handle a full workload? I'm pretty sure CJ2k put on 10 lbs in the off season, why? He said he wanted to become more durable. The dudes small for a RB no matter which way you look at it (in proportion to height and weight). You don't have a sample size large enough to say he can be leaned on as a workhorse back. 190 and 230 carries are a far cry from the 300+ workload a full time RB would need to see to be deemed a workhorse. My guess is KC followed that same logic in 2010 and continued to follow it this year by bringing in Hillis. It's true, maybe he could hold up a full season with 20+ touches a game, but why risk it? Especially now that he's coming back from a serious injury. IMO the people who think Charles is going to run away with this backfield as Hillis watches from the sidelines are delusional (I'm not speaking specifically about you btw). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmbryant09 1 Posted September 4, 2012 I'm pretty sure CJ2k put on 10 lbs in the off season, why? He said he wanted to become more durable. The dudes small for a RB no matter which way you look at it (in proportion to height and weight). You don't have a sample size large enough to say he can be leaned on as a workhorse back. 190 and 230 carries are a far cry from the 300+ workload a full time RB would need to see to be deemed a workhorse. My guess is KC followed that same logic in 2010 and continued to follow it this year by bringing in Hillis. It's true, maybe he could hold up a full season with 20+ touches a game, but why risk it? Especially now that he's coming back from a serious injury. IMO the people who think Charles is going to run away with this backfield as Hillis watches from the sidelines are delusional (I'm not speaking specifically about you btw). Chris Johnson's playing weight from 2008-2011 was 191 (he amassed 1,381 touches and missed 1 game) - would you call that handling a full workload? Also, I understand we haven't seen Charles put up season after season of 300+ touches. But to assume he can't with absolutely no relative argument is idiotic. The ONLY metrics we can use would be to look at his 2009 second half workload - he amassed 159 carries and 23 catches over 8 games (which projects to 364 touches in a season) and absolutely tore up the league. And in 2010, he amassed 275 touches and didn't suffer any hint of an injury. Keep talking out of your @$$ though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eagles115 23 Posted September 4, 2012 Chris Johnson's playing weight from 2008-2011 was 191 (he amassed 1,381 touches and missed 1 game) - would you call that handling a full workload? Also, I understand we haven't seen Charles put up season after season of 300+ touches. But to assume he can't with absolutely no relative argument is idiotic. The ONLY metrics we can use would be to look at his 2009 second half workload - he amassed 159 carries and 23 catches over 8 games (which projects to 364 touches in a season) and absolutely tore up the league. And in 2010, he amassed 275 touches and didn't suffer any hint of an injury. Keep talking out of your @$$ though Also lets not forget, the injury he suffered was a damn fluke..a non contact tear, a mere trip over the damn sideline markers..unlike peterson's knee which was destroyed. Charles look great in the preseason, like I mentioned above....hes getting 300 touches take that to the bank! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nobody 2,044 Posted September 4, 2012 For what it's worth, Hillis is reunited with his O-coordinator from his 2010 career year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SameSongNDance 0 Posted September 4, 2012 Chris Johnson's playing weight from 2008-2011 was 191 (he amassed 1,381 touches and missed 1 game) - would you call that handling a full workload? Also, I understand we haven't seen Charles put up season after season of 300+ touches. But to assume he can't with absolutely no relative argument is idiotic. The ONLY metrics we can use would be to look at his 2009 second half workload - he amassed 159 carries and 23 catches over 8 games (which projects to 364 touches in a season) and absolutely tore up the league. And in 2010, he amassed 275 touches and didn't suffer any hint of an injury. Keep talking out of your @$$ though CJ could simply be an outlier. He even acknowledged himself that he was too small, “I want to be a little heavier because it makes me feel a little sturdier and it helps me make it through the whole season without the bumps and bruises.”. Some players obviously have a higher tolerance for pain than others, maybe CJ played injured? Either way, I highly doubt were going to find out this year. I just don't see them working him that hard. Saying a sub 200lb RB may have durability issues with 300+ carries isn't "talking out of my ass", it's being logical. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmbryant09 1 Posted September 4, 2012 CJ could simply be an outlier. He even acknowledged himself that he was too small, “I want to be a little heavier because it makes me feel a little sturdier and it helps me make it through the whole season without the bumps and bruises.”. Some players obviously have a higher tolerance for pain than others, maybe CJ played injured? Either way, I highly doubt were going to find out this year. I just don't see them working him that hard. Saying a sub 200lb RB may have durability issues with 300+ carries isn't "talking out of my ass", it's being logical. No, its not logical. Saying Johnson bulked up to better take hits doesn't prove your argument. Seeing Chris Johnson average 350 touches a year for 4 years as a SMALLER RB than Charles basically proves that you're talking out of your ass. Sub 200lb RB is no metric that has ever proven a trend, and Jamaal Charles is 199 lbs. If he put 1 pound on, would that sway your opinion? I don't think Charles will eclipse 300 touches this year. But that's not the argument. The only time Charles was asked to be a featured back, he put up one of the best 8-game stretches the RB position has ever seen. When you compare RB's performance from touches 10-20 (a fair measure for a workhorse RB), he was 2nd best in the NFL behind injury-prone Darren McFadden. In games when he's received 20+ touches (again, a fair measure for a workhorse RB), he's averaged 160 ypg and 7 yards per carry - 7 YARDS PER CARRY! I'm not asking you to anoint the guy as Mr. Indestructible, Workhorse RB. But saying that he's not built to carry a full workload is talking out of your ass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SameSongNDance 0 Posted September 5, 2012 No, its not logical. Saying Johnson bulked up to better take hits doesn't prove your argument. Seeing Chris Johnson average 350 touches a year for 4 years as a SMALLER RB than Charles basically proves that you're talking out of your ass. Sub 200lb RB is no metric that has ever proven a trend, and Jamaal Charles is 199 lbs. If he put 1 pound on, would that sway your opinion? I don't think Charles will eclipse 300 touches this year. But that's not the argument. The only time Charles was asked to be a featured back, he put up one of the best 8-game stretches the RB position has ever seen. When you compare RB's performance from touches 10-20 (a fair measure for a workhorse RB), he was 2nd best in the NFL behind injury-prone Darren McFadden. In games when he's received 20+ touches (again, a fair measure for a workhorse RB), he's averaged 160 ypg and 7 yards per carry - 7 YARDS PER CARRY! I'm not asking you to anoint the guy as Mr. Indestructible, Workhorse RB. But saying that he's not built to carry a full workload is talking out of your ass. Yeah, I still don't think he's built to carry a full workload and I think the KC organization shares the same sentiments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nobody 2,044 Posted September 5, 2012 It's not so much about attempts for Jamaal Charles. It's about touches. He had only had 230 attempts in his 2010 campaign where he blew up, but he had 275 touches (rushing attempts + catches). He averaged 7 yards per touch in 2010, by the way. That's a statistical outlier. No runningbacks getting over 200 touches in a season average 7 yards per touch. In fact the vast majority don't even top 6 yards per touch. I should mention that in 2010, the Chiefs probably had the easiest schedule in the history of the NFL, so that might have had something to do with the inflated yards per touch numbers. So what's the point... Jamaal Charles Pros Best player on the Chiefs offense Can score from anywhere on the field Catches passes Has Peyton Hillis to keep him healthy Jamaal Charles Cons Coming off an ACL surgery His career year was against bad defenses and was such a statistical outlier, he's either a first ballot hall of famer that can't get carries or he'll come back down to earth Todd Haley and Charlie Weiss are better offensive coaches than Romeo Crennel and Brian Daboll (by a lot). Peyton Hillis is there to take away carries Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmbryant09 1 Posted September 5, 2012 Yeah, I still don't think he's built to carry a full workload and I think the KC organization shares the same sentiments. Yes, because an incompetent Todd Haley who refused to give Charles enough touches - and was later fired....and a coaching staff limiting Charles' role coming off an ACL tear will really prove your point. Whatever you say, good day to you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie Kennison 12 Posted September 5, 2012 you're a focking idiot to think he wont! They'll split carries down the middle all year long. Check back with me after the Falcons game, clown. Let's see how accurate your 75% to 25% split is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kent 228 Posted September 5, 2012 Jamaal Charles threads are always amazing. It will be a sad day when he retires. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueHenDave 0 Posted September 5, 2012 Have Charles on my team for the 3rd straight year. Obviously the 1st year was great...got burned last year and there I am in the draft order rolling the dice again. I think this guy has elite back ability. If he stays healthy, I think we will see the chiefs use him more and more each week. Too good not to be out there. With that said.....I also have Issac Redman. The reason I mention this is another manage in my leageu has Hillis/Mendenhall and proposed a trade to me. Hillis for Redman.... Any thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Next Generation 10 Posted September 5, 2012 Chiefs Depth Chart just released has both Charles and Hillis as 1st team RBs: OFFENSE WR Steve Breaston, Jon Baldwin, Devon Wylie LT Branden Albert, Donald Stephenson LG Ryan Lilja, Jeff Allen C Rodney Hudson RG Jon Asamoah RT Eric Winston TE Kevin Boss, Tony Moeaki, Steve Maneri, Jake O’Connell WR Dwayne Bowe, Dexter McCluster, Terrance Copper QB Matt Cassel, Brady Quinn, Ricky Stanzi RB Jamaal Charles, Shaun Draughn, Cyrus Gray RB: Peyton Hillis, Nate Eachus The most interesting thing here, is the RB position. The Chiefs have two groups of running backs, something I have never seen before. Group one features Jammal Charles, Shaun Draughn and Cyrus Gray, while group two shows Peyton Hillis and Nate Eachus. There are also no FBs listed. Clearly the Chiefs view Hillis and Eachus as FB options. This makes sense. Hillis has played full back and Eachus stepped up and played a little FB in the preseason. The fact of the matter is, the Chiefs probably don’t plan on using a traditional FB very often. They may often line up with Hilliis in the FB position and Charles behind him but make no mistake, both of these guys are running backs. The same goes for Eachus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie Kennison 12 Posted September 5, 2012 Have Charles on my team for the 3rd straight year. Obviously the 1st year was great...got burned last year and there I am in the draft order rolling the dice again. I think this guy has elite back ability. If he stays healthy, I think we will see the chiefs use him more and more each week. Too good not to be out there. With that said.....I also have Issac Redman. The reason I mention this is another manage in my leageu has Hillis/Mendenhall and proposed a trade to me. Hillis for Redman.... Any thoughts? What are you waiting for? That's a no-brainer! You a big Isaac Redman fan or something? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbfalcon 824 Posted September 5, 2012 Charles obviously has the talent to rush for 100 yards a game. Whereas Hillis has 60 yards a game talent given equal carries. But Charles will probably only rush for 85 of those potential 100 yards, whereas Hillis is a better bet to make the most of his blocks, the schemes, etc and get all 60 of his potential yards. So in the end, the coaches will give Hillis the carries as a coach would rather have someone that gets the most of the play call, etc...as oppose to someone like Charles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SameSongNDance 0 Posted September 5, 2012 Just to follow up on what The Next Generation posted.. The Chiefs have listed both Jamaal Charles and Peyton Hillis as starters on their Week 1 depth chart. It's yet another sign that the Chiefs are planning on splitting the rushing load pretty evenly. They want to "ground-n-pound," hoping to get their two backs a combined 500 touches this season. Hillis is going to have sneaky value as the red-zone option and power half of the committee. Our Season Pass ranks him 20th among fantasy running backs for Week 1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie Kennison 12 Posted September 5, 2012 Chiefs Depth Chart just released has both Charles and Hillis as 1st team RBs: OFFENSE WR Steve Breaston, Jon Baldwin, Devon Wylie LT Branden Albert, Donald Stephenson LG Ryan Lilja, Jeff Allen C Rodney Hudson RG Jon Asamoah RT Eric Winston TE Kevin Boss, Tony Moeaki, Steve Maneri, Jake O’Connell WR Dwayne Bowe, Dexter McCluster, Terrance Copper QB Matt Cassel, Brady Quinn, Ricky Stanzi RB Jamaal Charles, Shaun Draughn, Cyrus Gray RB: Peyton Hillis, Nate Eachus The most interesting thing here, is the RB position. The Chiefs have two groups of running backs, something I have never seen before. Group one features Jammal Charles, Shaun Draughn and Cyrus Gray, while group two shows Peyton Hillis and Nate Eachus. There are also no FBs listed. Clearly the Chiefs view Hillis and Eachus as FB options. This makes sense. Hillis has played full back and Eachus stepped up and played a little FB in the preseason. The fact of the matter is, the Chiefs probably don’t plan on using a traditional FB very often. They may often line up with Hilliis in the FB position and Charles behind him but make no mistake, both of these guys are running backs. The same goes for Eachus. Good post, man. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcmmidwest 98 Posted September 5, 2012 charles will get more carries all year long & if you think you no more about football put your $$$ where your mouth is http://www.fanduel.com/entry/EMAABR?invitedby=gcmmidwest&cnl=ba Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eagles115 23 Posted September 5, 2012 They'll split carries down the middle all year long. Check back with me after the Falcons game, clown. Let's see how accurate your 75% to 25% split is. Just shows your stupidity and that you really have absolutely not a clue what the hell you're talking about, scumbag! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigblue08 1 Posted September 5, 2012 Charles obviously has the talent to rush for 100 yards a game. Whereas Hillis has 60 yards a game talent given equal carries. But Charles will probably only rush for 85 of those potential 100 yards, whereas Hillis is a better bet to make the most of his blocks, the schemes, etc and get all 60 of his potential yards. So in the end, the coaches will give Hillis the carries as a coach would rather have someone that gets the most of the play call, etc...as oppose to someone like Charles. In terms of reading blocks: Hillis > T. Jones > Charles Plus, Hillis can catch the ball out f the backfield to boot. He is going to have a monster year, to the dismay of Charles owners. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eagles115 23 Posted September 6, 2012 In terms of reading blocks: Hillis > T. Jones > Charles Plus, Hillis can catch the ball out f the backfield to boot. He is going to have a monster year, to the dismay of Charles owners. just another clueless hillis owner who actually believes hillis is better than charles HAHAHAH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie Kennison 12 Posted September 6, 2012 Just shows your stupidity and that you really have absolutely not a clue what the hell you're talking about, scumbag! Are you mad? Yeah, he's mad! Tell us why you're so mad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eagles115 23 Posted September 6, 2012 Are you mad? No not mad at all....laughing at all these clowns that think hillis is better than charles HAHAHAH Yeah, he's mad! Tell us why you're so mad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,455 Posted September 6, 2012 In terms of reading blocks: Hillis > T. Jones > Charles Plus, Hillis can catch the ball out f the backfield to boot. He is going to have a monster year, to the dismay of Charles owners. Correct. But as a further note, Charles had become as good as T.Jones before he was hurt. The only area where Charles was still glaringly weak was pass protection. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squintz82 45 Posted September 6, 2012 Kansas City Chiefs head coach Romeo Crennel loves RB Jamaal Charles' speed and RB Peyton Hillis' power, and he plans to use both backs often in Week 1. However, Crennel added the flow of the game will dictate which back sees more time. "Just how we feel, how it's going," Crennel said when asked if he has a carry-split plan for Charles and Hillis. "And, that's totally honest with you. You can't say how a game is going to go. We go up there and we work all these hours at night and we put a game plan together, but if a play is not working, then you don't keep calling that play. So, whatever is working, that's what we're going to call, and that's why many times you look at that offensive call sheet that has so many plays on it because if they're not working, then you've got something else to go to." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kicked in the zombos 0 Posted September 6, 2012 This thread is hilarious. I am a Hillis owner. Did not draft him to start. He's a bye week filler so I don't really care what the split is. Personally I was thinking 60/40 with Hillis getting the 40 and the goalline. There have been LOADS of reports out of KC that point to more of a split. So anyone thinking their guy is going to get 300 carries is delusional. That being said I think KC is going to run the ball a ton this year and still think Charles is a solid #2 and Hillis will probably be a good #3. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Next Generation 10 Posted September 6, 2012 This thread is hilarious. I am a Hillis owner. Did not draft him to start. He's a bye week filler so I don't really care what the split is. Personally I was thinking 60/40 with Hillis getting the 40 and the goalline. There have been LOADS of reports out of KC that point to more of a split. So anyone thinking their guy is going to get 300 carries is delusional. That being said I think KC is going to run the ball a ton this year and still think Charles is a solid #2 and Hillis will probably be a good #3. I have them both and was going to start both but ATL is pretty stout against the run and will probably build a quick lead that may have the Chiefs playing catch-up. So...I'm leaning more toward flexing in 2 WRs instead ( T. Smith and N. Washington). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seadog54 20 Posted September 6, 2012 Crennel suggested a hot-hand situation when discussing Charles' potential workload against the Falcons Sunday. "It's just by how we feel and how it's going. You can't say how a game is going to go," he said. "The good thing about that is that I've got this guy named Hillis, who also could go into the game. I don't think we'll be disappointed when Hillis goes into the game." The two backs are listed as co-starters on the depth chart. Crennel has a man crush on Hillis. Sorry Charles owners... but face the facts.. this will be a full fledged RBBC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigblue08 1 Posted September 6, 2012 just another clueless hillis owner who actually believes hillis is better than charles HAHAHAH If you look back at previous years' posts on this topic, you'd see that the board's consensus was that Jones was the better RB because of his superior vision and block reading ability. And everyone can agree that Hillis was always superior to TJ. Therefore, Hillis is greater than Charles. If you think about it, it's all quite logical. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbfalcon 824 Posted September 6, 2012 just another clueless hillis owner who actually believes hillis is better than charles HAHAHAH Everyone agrees Charles is the more talented of the 2 backs. Yet everyone is saying it'll be a 50/50 split. Why would that be the case? I will tell you. The Chiefs coaches watch these guys read blocks and hit the designed holes every day in practice. They clearly see Hillis is superior in these areas to such a point that he more than makes up for his lesser talent. Hillis is the guy to own longterm. Physical skills are temporary and subject to many variables.. But the ability to correctly run a play as designed is more permanent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unclemercy 51 Posted September 7, 2012 Hillis is the guy to own longterm. aha i almost believe that you believe this. good one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stewburtx8 67 Posted September 7, 2012 Chris Johnson's playing weight from 2008-2011 was 191 (he amassed 1,381 touches and missed 1 game) - would you call that handling a full workload? Also, I understand we haven't seen Charles put up season after season of 300+ touches. But to assume he can't with absolutely no relative argument is idiotic. The ONLY metrics we can use would be to look at his 2009 second half workload - he amassed 159 carries and 23 catches over 8 games (which projects to 364 touches in a season) and absolutely tore up the league. And in 2010, he amassed 275 touches and didn't suffer any hint of an injury. Keep talking out of your @$$ though Good post. It's pretty ridiculous that people keep saying Jamaal Charles can't carry the full workload. Unfortunately I think we were robbed of the chance to see that because of the fluke knee injury last season. But EVERY time this guy has been given 20+ carries he's produced monster games. Charles could be the best RB in football if he was ever given the chance in terms of touches. Other than Chris Johnson, Shady McCoy is the same height as Charles and less than 10 lbs heavier. Warrick Dunn was 5'9", 180 lbs and had seasons of 265, 280, 286, and 227 carries in his age 29,30,31, and 32 seasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stewburtx8 67 Posted September 7, 2012 Yeah, I still don't think he's built to carry a full workload and I think the KC organization shares the same sentiments. Using the opinions of Todd Haley and Romeo Crennel is probably a bad idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
