Gepetto 1,001 Posted October 30, 2012 Maybe stop blaming the skill position players and focus on the craptastic o-line and defense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikki2200 4 Posted October 30, 2012 Well I got two things both bad news: 1. This team is that bad. On O we got a brittle inaccurate QB, a pair of #2 caliber wideouts and a terrible OL. McCoy is the only player who scares opposing D's even a little. On D the safety play still sucks, both CBs are overrated and the front 7 meh. This team is the definition of average on paper and on the field. 2. It'll get worse before it gets better. Go sixers! I have no expectations after Reid is gone for this to be a playoff team. My only expectation is the new coach is aware of the holes they have (in the O-line, defensive line, etc.) and act on it. Only then could I get excited about watching this team again. I also think you are underrating the offense a bit. Our wide outs aren't too shabby if they had a QB who could actually get them the ball. And Celek is completely under utilized. And if we had a coach who wasn't so ###### arrogant that he refuses to run the ball just because everyone says he should run the ball.... well... McCoy is a top 5 back in the league with an arrogant coach who refuses to run the ball. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 5,941 Posted October 30, 2012 If I'm too hard on the O that's cause the local media talks about our weapons like we've got Isaac Bruce and Tory Holt at receiver with Marshall Faulk in the background. In truth this is a good but not great group of receivers that lacks a real go to stud. Both DAL and NYG have better receivers and that's just in the division. They're probably about the 10th best overall group on the league. McCoy is legitimately a top 5 back though. None of that matters much when you've got a bad QB and OL, which is where we're at now. And frankly that is a lot more important than having flashy players in the backfield and at receiver. It doesn't help that the D is so-so at best and special teams have sucked for years. This isn't a talented team playing below their abilities. This is a totally average team that will deserve to finish 8-8. What's infuriating is that Eagles ownership really seems to think this team is a few moves away from a championship when really, they should just blow it up and start over. You could replace half this roster tomorrow and it wouldn't matter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT 137 Posted October 30, 2012 Actually, that's a good reason to put in Foles. The kid is better than you think. No, he's not. He's worse. Much, much worse. Couldn't win a third of his starts in a putrid PAC 10. Throws one pass, the fade, very well. Mobile as a statue. Put him behind this current O-line and you'll guarantee two QB on the roster so damaged by their experience that neither plays effectively in the NFL ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
giraldi02 470 Posted October 31, 2012 If I'm too hard on the O that's cause the local media talks about our weapons like we've got Isaac Bruce and Tory Holt at receiver with Marshall Faulk in the background. Ummm what local media talks like that? From everything I've heard on WIP and the Fanatic both stations criticize the receivers all day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 5,941 Posted October 31, 2012 Ummm what local media talks like that? From everything I've heard on WIP and the Fanatic both stations criticize the receivers all day. I hear on both networks all the time that the O is loaded with weapons and that the team is flat, which is another way of saying they're not playing to potential. The truth is the Eagles are extremely average talent wise and its time the organization realized it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Bozworth Fan Club 0 Posted October 31, 2012 I saw something on ESPN today showing Vick has been pressured by opposing defenses more than any other QB in the league thus far. I'm sure this has a lot to do with the poor play of Vick and his receivers. Vick's made his fair share of mistakes, but if you consistantly pressure any QB they're going to make mistakes. The Eagles blaming Vick as if he's the main problem is stupid IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Giants Fan 85 Posted October 31, 2012 If you go back and read the week 4 article I wrote, "Perception vs. Reality" at the-pffl.com, I told Vick owners to pick up Foles. WTF are you guys waiting for? You gotta handcuff Vick now! Switch to a standard pro style offense and rely on Foles as a pocket passer ... it's a whole new game plan. Run Shady more, do some play action. Get back to basics. I mean ... Vick, unless he has a huge game this weekend ... is likely done, as a starting QB in the NFL. I wont miss him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,656 Posted October 31, 2012 Iggles vs Aints this week. If they don't light them up Vick is in trouble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
p00h 85 Posted October 31, 2012 No, he's not. He's worse. Much, much worse. Couldn't win a third of his starts in a putrid PAC 10. Throws one pass, the fade, very well. Mobile as a statue. Put him behind this current O-line and you'll guarantee two QB on the roster so damaged by their experience that neither plays effectively in the NFL ever. classic armchair quarterbacking by most here. Forget the fact that this wasn't some heralded, guaranteed stud, prospect coming from college. Even if he was, to throw someone in like that and just say, 'he can't be worse than vick' is moronic beyond belief. Vick has been bad, but they'be been in every single game except the atlanta one, and atlanta is arguably the best team in football. On top of that, they're not a 1 win team, they've got some wins. For everyone saying he can't be worse than vick, he can be shitload worse than vick. Picture a game where he has 3 pics on the 1st 3 possessions, and they're down 27-0 at the half. Not only is that a strong possibility, but that outcome basically now ruins his confidence. And now every team they play just blitzes the crap out of him and their season goes down the gutter. It's stupid to believe the rook gives them a better shot, it's downright idiotic actually. Vick has been bad, but he's not the whole problem. The walrus is an idiot, doesn't use one of the best rbs in the league properly, and Vick has nothing to do with their crap D giving up points the way they do. Plugging in a rook and expecting all those things to some how magically be solved is, again for a lack of a better word, moronic... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
donhaas 18 Posted October 31, 2012 Fantasywise Vick has not been awful.... He just has not been good I don't think the Eagles have any choice whatsoever but to stick with him.... I, on the other hand, will give him one last game against NO and then that is it forever But don't be glum, eagles fans.... here's something to cheer you up in the meantime! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOEq7p4r00U Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikki2200 4 Posted October 31, 2012 Freddie focking Mitchell :lol: Vick is pressured more than any other QB in the league because he can't read a defense, can't call a play at the line, and if things don't go as planned he runs around like a scared school girl. He sucks. Yea the o-line is horrible but AT LEAST half of the blame is on Vick for just being dumb as a box of rocks as it relates to playing the QB position. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius 0 Posted October 31, 2012 I...will give him one last game against NO and then that is it forever Quite frankly I think that's the position of the Eagles as well. If Vick can just win on Monday night, he has the entire world at his feet, Fantasy-wise, going forward. His schedule opens up like the Red Sea, if he can just keep the damn job. 10 11/11 DAL 11 11/18 @WAS 12 11/26 CAR 13 12/2 @DAL 14 12/9 @TB 15 12/13 CIN 16 12/23 WAS I can see him getting massive numbers in each and every one of these games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
donhaas 18 Posted October 31, 2012 Quite frankly I think that's the position of the Eagles as well. If Vick can just win on Monday night, he has the entire world at his feet, Fantasy-wise, going forward. His schedule opens up like the Red Sea, if he can just keep the damn job. 10 11/11 DAL 11 11/18 @WAS 12 11/26 CAR 13 12/2 @DAL 14 12/9 @TB 15 12/13 CIN 16 12/23 WAS I can see him getting massive numbers in each and every one of these games. I'm like the severely beaten wife.... all set to finally leave him but here comes 3 dozen roses (NO defense) and a good remaining schedule I have Freeman... the smart play would be to play him this week... But I can't The NO pass defense is that awful Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 5,941 Posted October 31, 2012 I'm like the severely beaten wife.... all set to finally leave him but here comes 3 dozen roses (NO defense) and a good remaining schedule I have Freeman... the smart play would be to play him this week... But I can't The NO pass defense is that awful Don't underestimate the Eagles ability to make them look like the steel focking curtain! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
southcarolina 166 Posted October 31, 2012 I'm like the severely beaten wife.... all set to finally leave him but here comes 3 dozen roses (NO defense) and a good remaining schedule I have Freeman... the smart play would be to play him this week... But I can't The NO pass defense is that awful You are not alone my friend. Mike told me he would stop turning the ball over. I think this time he really means it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadLizard 73 Posted October 31, 2012 I saw something on ESPN today showing Vick has been pressured by opposing defenses more than any other QB in the league thus far. I'm sure this has a lot to do with the poor play of Vick and his receivers. Vick's made his fair share of mistakes, but if you consistantly pressure any QB they're going to make mistakes. The Eagles blaming Vick as if he's the main problem is stupid IMO. Vick is the problem though - he sucks and cant play QB at a professional level. Thats that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PATSSOX 22 Posted October 31, 2012 Ive been trying to upgrade at QB over Romo. Guy with Ryan and RGIII wanted Megabust or Roddy White so i decided to pass. So instead i went for the HOME RUN or BUST. Traded Andy Dalton, Pierre Thomas, and Felix Jones for Michael Vick and Broncos D/ST. Im sitting in 4 way tie for last playoff spot at 6-10. Now Have QB: Romo or Vick RB1: McCoy RB2: Charles WR1: Roddy White WR2: Megabust TE: A. Hernandez(Celek) Flex: Mike Wallace K: D/ST: Broncos with Vjax, Dwyer, and some other scrubs on bench Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikki2200 4 Posted October 31, 2012 Why in the world would you think Vick is an upgrade to Romo? That's weird. ARE YOU NOT PAYING ATTENTION? Vick is going to be benched!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PATSSOX 22 Posted November 1, 2012 Why in the world would you think Vick is an upgrade to Romo? That's weird. ARE YOU NOT PAYING ATTENTION? Vick is going to be benched!!!! Did not get him as an upgrade. Rather to have if he performs like the Vick when he blew up for Eagles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Bozworth Fan Club 0 Posted November 1, 2012 Vick is the problem though - he sucks and cant play QB at a professional level. Thats that. I think you're overstating things a bit. Despite Vicks struggles he's had success at the professional level as a starting QB. If Vick couldn't play at the professional level he never would have lasted this long in the NFL, and Andy Reid who's a good coach and knows a little more than you do about who can play QB at the professional level, wouldn't have had him QB his squad for the past 2-1/2 seasons. If he gets benched as the season progresses it won't take away from the fact he has been a productive QB for quite a few seasons and had success. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikki2200 4 Posted November 1, 2012 I think you're overstating things a bit. Despite Vicks struggles he's had success at the professional level as a starting QB. If Vick couldn't play at the professional level he never would have lasted this long in the NFL, and Andy Reid who's a good coach and knows a little more than you do about who can play QB at the professional level, wouldn't have had him QB his squad for the past 2-1/2 seasons. If he gets benched as the season progresses it won't take away from the fact he has been a productive QB for quite a few seasons and had success. WRONG. My 96 year old grandma knows more about who can play QB at the professional level than fat Andy does. HTH!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stewburtx8 67 Posted November 1, 2012 I think you're overstating things a bit. Despite Vicks struggles he's had success at the professional level as a starting QB. If Vick couldn't play at the professional level he never would have lasted this long in the NFL, and Andy Reid who's a good coach and knows a little more than you do about who can play QB at the professional level, wouldn't have had him QB his squad for the past 2-1/2 seasons. If he gets benched as the season progresses it won't take away from the fact he has been a productive QB for quite a few seasons and had success. Michael Vick has had success at the professional level due to his unbelievable athleticism. BUT, that's not there anymore, or at least not close to the level it was. You're giving Andy Reid waaaay too much credit. He's not a good football coach. Jim Johnson was a tremendous football coach. He saved Andy's a$$ for a decade. Since his very unfortunate passing, the Eagles have been a complete trainwreck of a football team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
walleyeshark 0 Posted November 1, 2012 How worried are you guys about Vick getting benched at halftime or whatever point during the game??? I'm seriously thinking of starting Weeden for this exact reason!! I haven't had the chance to watch Vick the last 2-3 games but from what I've been reading, it just doesn't look like he's going to start putting up points all of a sudden...even if it is the Saint's.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
megatron's mom 6 Posted November 1, 2012 Quite frankly I think that's the position of the Eagles as well. If Vick can just win on Monday night, he has the entire world at his feet, Fantasy-wise, going forward. His schedule opens up like the Red Sea, if he can just keep the damn job. 10 11/11 DAL 11 11/18 @WAS 12 11/26 CAR 13 12/2 @DAL 14 12/9 @TB 15 12/13 CIN 16 12/23 WAS I can see him getting massive numbers in each and every one of these games. Also a good schedule to throw at a rookie qb if you think he is the future of your franchise. Just a thought. If they were gonna make a change this week against the NFL worst defense would be the time to do it. If they are even considering a change because they believe Foles is the future then they need to just do it. Waiting is only gonna hurt this team long term and they aren't going anywhere this year regardless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Houston Texans 10 Posted November 1, 2012 Also a good schedule to throw at a rookie qb if you think he is the future of your franchise. Just a thought. If they were gonna make a change this week against the NFL worst defense would be the time to do it. If they are even considering a change because they believe Foles is the future then they need to just do it. Waiting is only gonna hurt this team long term and they aren't going anywhere this year regardless. But you need to understand the situation. Reid is likely done after this year, if they don't get to the playoffs. Seeing if Foles can lead them to the playoffs is probably a risk he can't afford to take, even if it might be better for Philly, as a franchise, in the long-term. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frozenbeernuts 1,652 Posted November 1, 2012 If the rookie comes in and leads the team to the playoffs then he looks more like a genius than a dope to the mainstream. Foles leading the team to the playoffs = hope for the future and maybe Andy Reed just needs a little more time to get the Eagles to the Super Bowl. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikki2200 4 Posted November 1, 2012 Michael Vick has had success at the professional level due to his unbelievable athleticism. BUT, that's not there anymore, or at least not close to the level it was. You're giving Andy Reid waaaay too much credit. He's not a good football coach. Jim Johnson was a tremendous football coach. He saved Andy's a$$ for a decade. Since his very unfortunate passing, the Eagles have been a complete trainwreck of a football team. It was all Jim Johnson. That couldn't be more apparent now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Houston Texans 10 Posted November 1, 2012 If the rookie comes in and leads the team to the playoffs then he looks more like a genius than a dope to the mainstream. Foles leading the team to the playoffs = hope for the future and maybe Andy Reed just needs a little more time to get the Eagles to the Super Bowl. But that isn't likely. Foles is very immobile, and the Philly O-line is basically a sieve. He likely wouldn't lead them to the playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stewburtx8 67 Posted November 1, 2012 But that isn't likely. Foles is very immobile, and the Philly O-line is basically a sieve. He likely wouldn't lead them to the playoffs. The Eagles aren't going to the playoffs regardless of who is at QB. But Foles is 6'6" and would be much more suited for the short, quick passing West coast offense this team needs to be running considering how bad the offensive line is. Michael Vick's strength as a passer (if he has one) is throwing the ball down the field. With this offensive line, there isn't time for those routes to develop. I honestly believe this offense could run more efficiently with Nick Foles at QB simply because I think Andy/Marty would adjust their play calling to protect the rookie and run a more conservative offense. They did the same thing when guys like AJ Feeley and Jeff Garcia came in as backups. They would run the ball more, run more screens, run more quick routes to their WR's, etc. Get the ball in the hands of your playmakers. Honestly, this offense can't get much worse. Between Vick's poor play, a sieve of an offensive line, and two doofuses calling the plays; the offense is a complete and utter failure. I think their is a greater than zero chance that the offense would be better with Nick Foles at QB, which to me, is enough to say give the kid a shot. They have nothing to lose. This is a 6-10 football team if it stays the course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PATSSOX 22 Posted November 1, 2012 How worried are you guys about Vick getting benched at halftime or whatever point during the game??? I'm seriously thinking of starting Weeden for this exact reason!! I haven't had the chance to watch Vick the last 2-3 games but from what I've been reading, it just doesn't look like he's going to start putting up points all of a sudden...even if it is the Saint's.... He is playing the worst defense in the NFL. If he gets benched at halftime than your screwed anyway you look at it since you backup seems to be Weeden. So id ride Vick until he does or does not get benched. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
megatron's mom 6 Posted November 1, 2012 But you need to understand the situation. Reid is likely done after this year, if they don't get to the playoffs. Seeing if Foles can lead them to the playoffs is probably a risk he can't afford to take, even if it might be better for Philly, as a franchise, in the long-term. Then the gm needs to step in and tell Reid he wants to see what the kid has. They need to know. It can save them a high draft pick or a ton of money in FA. If they wait n Foles sucks next year that's another year wasted. They need to see what the kid has. It's not likely to affect their playoff hopes n it could save them money. IFfffff they believe Foles is the future... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stewburtx8 67 Posted November 1, 2012 Then the gm needs to step in and tell Reid he wants to see what the kid has. They need to know. It can save them a high draft pick or a ton of money in FA. If they wait n Foles sucks next year that's another year wasted. They need to see what the kid has. It's not likely to affect their playoff hopes n it could save them money. IFfffff they believe Foles is the future... I agree with you. But the GM, Howie Roseman, really has no say when it comes to Andy Reid. Andy Reid is the VP of Football Operations. He basically has the final say now that Joe Banner is out of the picture. Only Jeffrey Lurie could step in and change that, but he's shown no willingness to do that over the last 14+ years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikki2200 4 Posted November 1, 2012 I agree with you. But the GM, Howie Roseman, really has no say when it comes to Andy Reid. Andy Reid is the VP of Football Operations. He basically has the final say now that Joe Banner is out of the picture. Only Jeffrey Lurie could step in and change that, but he's shown no willingness to do that over the last 14+ years. I think I posted it earlier in this thread, but I can totally see Andy benching Vick and going with Foles and submitting a plea to Lurie that it was all Castillo's and Vick's fault. If Foles even looks halfway decent, Andy's the freaking hero. I also agree with everything you posted about about improvement in the offense by playing more conservatively with a rookie QB. Also it's not exactly true that Lurie never steps in. I think it's pretty apparent that he had a huge hand in McNabb going. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Houston Texans 10 Posted November 2, 2012 I think I posted it earlier in this thread, but I can totally see Andy benching Vick and going with Foles and submitting a plea to Lurie that it was all Castillo's and Vick's fault. If Foles even looks halfway decent, Andy's the freaking hero. I also agree with everything you posted about about improvement in the offense by playing more conservatively with a rookie QB. Also it's not exactly true that Lurie never steps in. I think it's pretty apparent that he had a huge hand in McNabb going. You might be able to see it, but its unlikely to happen. Reid is a stubborn guy; that's been demonstrated over the years. He's come out and said that the job is Vick's, not on a week-to-week basis, but it's his job, period. He's also said that he never seriously considered benching him. Having made those definitive statements, I see very little chance that he will backtrack (barring injury) and bench him. I also see it as highly unlikely that Lurie will step into this situation and force the benching of Vick. To be clear, I don't disagree with those people who are saying the best/right decision would be to play Foles and see what potential he has, but I don't believe that Reid will go that route. IMO, he has decided that Vick is his best chance to make the playoffs, and he will go with Vick, until Vick can't go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stewburtx8 67 Posted November 2, 2012 Also it's not exactly true that Lurie never steps in. I think it's pretty apparent that he had a huge hand in McNabb going. Ehh...I was a huuuge McNabb fan and I never got that feeling. Lurie was obviously in favor of trading McNabb at the time, but I don't think he ever pushed McNabb out or stepped on the toes of Banner, Roseman, or Reid. Maybe helped nudge them in that direction. But if those guys would of shown much resistance to trading McNabb, I don't think it would of happened. This is a great article from the time about how the whole thing transpired... http://articles.philly.com/2010-07-25/sports/24969602_1_novacare-complex-donovan-mcnabb-andy-reid . As far as Reid switching to Foles...I really have no idea what I think he will do. If Vick continues to play poorly and they lose another game or two, I could see him making the change just because he is out of options. But if Lurie goes back on his declaration that an 8-8 season won't cut it for Reid, their might be a riot in the city though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikki2200 4 Posted November 2, 2012 You might be able to see it, but its unlikely to happen. Reid is a stubborn guy; that's been demonstrated over the years. He's come out and said that the job is Vick's, not on a week-to-week basis, but it's his job, period. He's also said that he never seriously considered benching him. Having made those definitive statements, I see very little chance that he will backtrack (barring injury) and bench him. I also see it as highly unlikely that Lurie will step into this situation and force the benching of Vick. To be clear, I don't disagree with those people who are saying the best/right decision would be to play Foles and see what potential he has, but I don't believe that Reid will go that route. IMO, he has decided that Vick is his best chance to make the playoffs, and he will go with Vick, until Vick can't go. Yes. Andy is very very stubborn. However he did pull Kolb to start Vick after going on and on and on about how Kolb was the guy. I just think with his job being on the line and the public announcement by Lurie that Reid will lose his job if the team does not go 8-8, which in my opinion is setting the bar a little low, he's going to be in panic mode and will need to do something if Vick keeps sucking. At this point I doubt the Eagles will go 8-8 with the way they have been playing. That's why I just have this theory that at some point in the next few weeks, Foles will be the guy and Andy tries to throw Castillo and Vick under the bus in an attempt to save his job. It's just wild speculation. But he's kind of out of options. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikki2200 4 Posted November 2, 2012 Ehh...I was a huuuge McNabb fan and I never got that feeling. Lurie was obviously in favor of trading McNabb at the time, but I don't think he ever pushed McNabb out or stepped on the toes of Banner, Roseman, or Reid. Maybe helped nudge them in that direction. But if those guys would of shown much resistance to trading McNabb, I don't think it would of happened. This is a great article from the time about how the whole thing transpired... http://articles.philly.com/2010-07-25/sports/24969602_1_novacare-complex-donovan-mcnabb-andy-reid . As far as Reid switching to Foles...I really have no idea what I think he will do. If Vick continues to play poorly and they lose another game or two, I could see him making the change just because he is out of options. But if Lurie goes back on his declaration that an 8-8 season won't cut it for Reid, their might be a riot in the city though. I haven't finished the article. It's really interesting. I just remember at the time having the impression that Reid was really no too keen on the McNabb trade but was left with little choice. And it was one of those - it's either him or you - scenarios. And Lurie seemed to really have a lot of love for Kolb. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfloisillest 0 Posted November 2, 2012 I traded for Vick last week, thinking he couldn't possibly be any worse than he's been thus far. While he didn't turn the ball over this week, he certainly didn't do anything to inspire lots of confidence moving forward. It was really frustrating to watch all the dink and dunk offensive play-calls in this game against the Falcons. Plus Philly's defense really stinks right now. That being said, it was a matchup against the Falcons, who are looking like the best team in the NFL so far. While Vick made some uninspiring comments in his post-game news conference, I just dont see how throwing rookie Nick Foles into the fire is going to solve anything. Philly has way too many weapons on offense to be playing this horrible. That and the fact that they still have a shot at making the playoffs. They've had some pretty tough opponents the last few weeks as well. Bottom line: Is this a rough patch, and is there still some hope to turn things around?? Or is it officially time to stick a fork in Vick and the Eagles??? If he is going to make a comeback now is the time. He is playing the two worst defenses in the league over the next three weeks. But if he stinks it up against NO that might be all she wrote for the Vick era in philly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyLaughlin 0 Posted November 2, 2012 Everyone in my league has been texting me about it, but I dropped Vick for Amendola this week in favor or letting somebody else get Amendola, dropping Sidney Rice or play this week with no TE (I'm 5-3 trying to avoid a 4-4 4-way tie). I'm going with RGIII then dropping my TE for a fill-in next week when Hernandez comes back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
