Bradshaw vs Trich

[Einstein's Dog 20]

1-Yes, it has, IF he is now in a RBBC!!!! If he was averaging 13 FF pts a game when he was averaging 23 touches/game, then it is not logical to believe he will continue to average the same amount of points with 17 touches/game. If you don't think Bradshaw is going to get more touches than Chris Ogbonnaya, then that's your opinion.

 

2-I'm siding with what I've seen, which is that Richardson isn't special. He seems to lack vision, and while he has good speed, he doesn't have good burst/quickness. He needs to get a head of steam up to hit top speed, and that is tough in the NFL. You keep saying "two teams used 1sts on him." That doesn't change the fact that in his 19 NFL games, he hasn't demonstrated that he is a special talent.

 

3-Lynch wasn't a workhorse in Buffalo, he was in a timeshare with Fred Jackson. Seattle didn't have any RBs on their roster that was the caliber of Bradshaw. So that wasn't an NFL team actively trying to trade their workhorse. It was a franchise who was tired of dealing with a player's attitude and off the field issues getting rid of a player, when they felt they had a capable replacement. Richardson had no off-field issues, he wasn't an attitude problem (from anything I've read), and they had no viable replacement for him. Yet THEY sought out Indy and initiated the trade.

 

4-No, I wasn't. YOU tried to explain Richardson's low YPC as being partially due to his "success in short-yardage." I merely pointed out that he isn't all that successful in short-yardage, especially compared to two RBs who you suggested had higher YPC because they didn't get those types of rushes. Then I pointed out that Bradshaw is better in short-yardage situations. I pointed it out because when I was checking your false statements, it jumped out at me.

 

You keep calling Richardson an elite back. But, there is nothing elite about him. His YPC is below average, his TD/touch ratio isn't special, his short-yardage running is below average. I suppose that you could say his pass-catching is elite, but those numbers are WAY down this year.

Of course TRich's value is tied to how many touches he gets. And I'm telling you he is not in a RBBC. When has there ever been a first round pick for the goal line portion of a RBBC? It's either power, workhorse back or electrifying scatback in the first round.

 

While you may not view TRich as elite, Indy certainly views him as special, they gave up a first rounder for him.

 

The idea that you will give up a first rounder for someone for a 60/40 timeshare doesn't make sense. Who does that? And if the GM and coach came to the decision to bring him in for a first rounder, then the thought is this guy is going to be a star. He's not going to be a star if he only gets 60% of the carries.

 

I don't see how people can think that Indy just spent their number one pick on someone they consider to be similar in skill to Bradshaw. It wouldn't have happened. The coach and the GM have a vested interest in making TRich work.

[BufordT 371]

Just so you guys know, when you start numbering your responses, I stop reading. I'm not cross-referencing some damn post on an Internet message board. And I'm sure I am not alone in that.

That's your loss, you're missing some pearls of wisdom.

[FeelingMN 273]

Of course TRich's value is tied to how many touches he gets. And I'm telling you he is not in a RBBC. When has there ever been a first round pick for the goal line portion of a RBBC? It's either power, workhorse back or electrifying scatback in the first round.

 

While you may not view TRich as elite, Indy certainly views him as special, they gave up a first rounder for him.

 

The idea that you will give up a first rounder for someone for a 60/40 timeshare doesn't make sense. Who does that? And if the GM and coach came to the decision to bring him in for a first rounder, then the thought is this guy is going to be a star. He's not going to be a star if he only gets 60% of the carries.

 

I don't see how people can think that Indy just spent their number one pick on someone they consider to be similar in skill to Bradshaw. It wouldn't have happened. The coach and the GM have a vested interest in making TRich work.

Buffalo drafted Spiller in the first only to have him in a committee. So there's precedent for spending a high draft pick on a committee back.

 

Plus, if Indy wants to run it 30 times a game....which I kinda think they do....with a 60/40 split, TRich is still looking at 18 carries a game. Not a lot of backs are going to exceed that number. Still plenty of work in a committee where the team wants to pound the rock.

 

The issue is his ypc. 18 carries at 3.8 ypc just isn't gonna cut it. Otherwise he'll need to carry the ball 28 times a game to squeeze RB1 value.

[Belushi 9]

I can see why Cleveland was happy to trade him for a 1st round pick. Richardson just isn't that good. Whenever Bradshaw comes back, he'll get plenty of touches. Bradshaw looked great against the 49ers. He's motivated to land a good contract in the offseason, and when healthy he can be better than Richardson. The Colts want to win games - they'll go with the hot hand at RB, not whoever was drafted higher.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

That's your loss, you're missing some pearls of wisdom.

Oh it's a good argument, I just can't stand the numbered points format. Boil it down to your main contention.

 

Anywho, I do think the Colts are planning on TRich being a bell-cow--why else would they trade a first round pick for him?

 

However, I think the Colts also overvalued TRich and may come to find that Bradshaw (when healthy) actually gives them a better chance to win. At that point they are going to go for results.

[BufordT 371]

Oh it's a good argument, I just can't stand the numbered points format. Boil it down to your main contention.

 

Anywho, I do think the Colts are planning on TRich being a bell-cow--why else would they trade a first round pick for him?

 

However, I think the Colts also overvalued TRich and may come to find that Bradshaw (when healthy) actually gives them a better chance to win. At that point they are going to go for results.

Don't disagree, however, the Colts want to win this year. They are in a "win now" frame of mind. That's what most people are forgetting or don't seem to realize. If Bradshaw ever gets healthy enough, Indy will go with the RB that gives them the best chance to win now. That could change from game to game.

[Einstein's Dog 20]

Buffalo drafted Spiller in the first only to have him in a committee. So there's precedent for spending a high draft pick on a committee back.

 

Plus, if Indy wants to run it 30 times a game....which I kinda think they do....with a 60/40 split, TRich is still looking at 18 carries a game. Not a lot of backs are going to exceed that number. Still plenty of work in a committee where the team wants to pound the rock.

 

The issue is his ypc. 18 carries at 3.8 ypc just isn't gonna cut it. Otherwise he'll need to carry the ball 28 times a game to squeeze RB1 value.

Spiller is under the category of electrifying back. The additional back added was the goal line back. That happens. What has not happened is paying a first round price tag for the goal line portion of the RBBC.

 

Even under your estimates, (18 x 3.8) 68 yd rushing, +20 yds receiving (he had 24 per game last yr) + (.75 x 6) 4.5 TDs = 13.3 fpg

Last year the 10th RB had 12.8 fpg's.

He can be an RB1 without getting 28 carries a game.

[Houston Texans 10]

Of course TRich's value is tied to how many touches he gets. And I'm telling you he is not in a RBBC. When has there ever been a first round pick for the goal line portion of a RBBC? It's either power, workhorse back or electrifying scatback in the first round.

 

While you may not view TRich as elite, Indy certainly views him as special, they gave up a first rounder for him.

 

The idea that you will give up a first rounder for someone for a 60/40 timeshare doesn't make sense. Who does that? And if the GM and coach came to the decision to bring him in for a first rounder, then the thought is this guy is going to be a star. He's not going to be a star if he only gets 60% of the carries.

 

I don't see how people can think that Indy just spent their number one pick on someone they consider to be similar in skill to Bradshaw. It wouldn't have happened. The coach and the GM have a vested interest in making TRich work.

I have no problem continuing this discussion with you, but if you going to stick to the same tired arguments "he was a 1st round pick," and "he's elite," then it is becoming pointless.

 

As I've already posted (but you decided to ignore), being a first round pick doesn't guarantee that you will be a workhorse. There are 6 first round RBs in the league RIGHT NOW that are in a RBBC. How many 1st round RBs are workhorses in the league right now? You can keep saying "you don't use a 1st round pick on a guy in a RBBC," but the facts show that NFL teams do just that. RBBC is the way of the NFL. You can ignore that all you want, but it doesn't change the fact.

 

Bradshaw and Richardson aren't similar in skill. They are two very different backs, and that is why they would be part of a RBBC. Richardson is likely to be the main back in that RBBC, because Bradshaw is likely gone after this year, but Pagano and the Colts want to win this year. They aren't going to keep plugging Richardson's 3.5 YPC out there when Bradshaw is able to get them a yard more per carry. They will utilize both RBs, and that is why Richardson won't get the touches to be a RB1.

 

Again, I would be more than happy to continue this discussion, but if all you are going to do is say "Richardson is elite," without anything to back it up, then let's just agree to disagree.

[Houston Texans 10]

Buffalo drafted Spiller in the first only to have him in a committee. So there's precedent for spending a high draft pick on a committee back.

 

Plus, if Indy wants to run it 30 times a game....which I kinda think they do....with a 60/40 split, TRich is still looking at 18 carries a game. Not a lot of backs are going to exceed that number. Still plenty of work in a committee where the team wants to pound the rock.

 

The issue is his ypc. 18 carries at 3.8 ypc just isn't gonna cut it. Otherwise he'll need to carry the ball 28 times a game to squeeze RB1 value.

Exactly. I feel that number is high (Indy might want to hit it, I don't know if they will be able to do so, consistently). But even if it is accurate, Richardson will need to average more than 3.5 YPC to be a true RB1. He hasn't show the ability to do that.

[Einstein's Dog 20]

I have no problem continuing this discussion with you, but if you going to stick to the same tired arguments "he was a 1st round pick," and "he's elite," then it is becoming pointless.

 

As I've already posted (but you decided to ignore), being a first round pick doesn't guarantee that you will be a workhorse. There are 6 first round RBs in the league RIGHT NOW that are in a RBBC. How many 1st round RBs are workhorses in the league right now? You can keep saying "you don't use a 1st round pick on a guy in a RBBC," but the facts show that NFL teams do just that. RBBC is the way of the NFL. You can ignore that all you want, but it doesn't change the fact.

 

Bradshaw and Richardson aren't similar in skill. They are two very different backs, and that is why they would be part of a RBBC. Richardson is likely to be the main back in that RBBC, because Bradshaw is likely gone after this year, but Pagano and the Colts want to win this year. They aren't going to keep plugging Richardson's 3.5 YPC out there when Bradshaw is able to get them a yard more per carry. They will utilize both RBs, and that is why Richardson won't get the touches to be a RB1.

 

Again, I would be more than happy to continue this discussion, but if all you are going to do is say "Richardson is elite," without anything to back it up, then let's just agree to disagree.

I keep saying you don't use a first round pick on the goal line portion of a RBBC but you choose not to hear this.

 

Most people don't think Bradshaw and TRich are similar, they view TRich as vastly superior. In NYC, talk radio was buzzing if the Giants should have done the trade for TRich. And the Giants have Wilson who is viewed as superior to Bradshaw, No one was saying they shouldn't do it because Wilson is the equal or better than TRich, they just didn't want to use the first round resource in that manner.

[Giants Fan 85]

Ok, this clearly needs to be said: You don't trade away a first round draft pick for a player .... just kidding.

 

It doesn't matter. The Colts might be wrong about Richardson and not know it yet. They may have overvalued him, too. He may just be an average guy for the first few years of his career. Look at Jerome Bettis, he was pretty much average for like 10 years and then all of a sudden became a beast.

 

What's clear, is that floor for Richardson, being just OK for a few years, is a more long term solution than Bradshaw. I drafted both these players, and right now, if they were both healthy, I would tell you that Bradshaw is the more talented and versatile back. There's really no arguing that point. Bradshaw IS the better, more dynamic RB of the two, right now. But Bradshaw is not a long term solution.

 

And there you have it. Going forward, as long as Bradshaw is healthy, you can expect him to get a good number of carries, and he will likely out produce Richardson, this year.

 

The Colts could care less about your fantasy football team.

[Houston Texans 10]

I keep saying you don't use a first round pick on the goal line portion of a RBBC but you choose not to hear this.

 

Most people don't think Bradshaw and TRich are similar, they view TRich as vastly superior. In NYC, talk radio was buzzing if the Giants should have done the trade for TRich. And the Giants have Wilson who is viewed as superior to Bradshaw, No one was saying they shouldn't do it because Wilson is the equal or better than TRich, they just didn't want to use the first round resource in that manner.

No one ever said he was the goal line portion of a RBBC. That would imply that he gets nothing but GL work. That's absurd, and it's never even been remotely suggested in this thread. I believe he will get the lion's share of carries in a RBBC (I think 60%), AND the GL work. That is completely different.

 

Who views Wilson as superior to Bradshaw? That's just an absurd statement. Please show me where this was blogged, written, typed, etc, so I can know never to listen to that reporter/blogger/FF "expert" ever again. Wilson has played in every game this season. Bradshaw outscored him in the 1 game where he was in a timeshare with Richardson. Yeah, he's superior to Bradshaw.

 

I'll say it again,(so please stop ignoring this point): You keep arguing that NFL teams don't use 1st round picks on RBs to be part of a RBBC, yet I've noted 6 such examples. Here's another one: Adrian Peterson was drafted in the 1st round, and he played at an elite level his rookie year. 5.6 YPC; yet he got (guess what) 60% of the carries, in a RBBC. So, if the best RB in the NFL today, and arguably one of the best in the history of the game can be involved in a 60/40 timeshare in his 1st year with a franchise, why couldn't Trent Richardson?

[Giants Fan 85]

Wilson was a first round draft pick. Bradshaw, if I remember correctly was a 6th rounder, and drafted pretty much to be Tiki Barber's backup.

 

Right now ... Bradshaw is better ... but Wilson is more of a long term solution.

 

I just got deja vu.

[Houston Texans 10]

Wilson was a first round draft pick. Bradshaw, if I remember correctly was a 6th rounder, and drafted pretty much to be Tiki Barber's backup.

 

Right now ... Bradshaw is better ... but Wilson is more of a long term solution.

 

I just got deja vu.

This is what I am concerned with. Right now, this season.

 

Perhaps Einstein's and I are discussing two different things. If he is referring to Richardson's dynasty value in Indy, then absolutely, I agree he has RB1 potential, (obviously depending on what other RBs Indy has on their future rosters). I can't see any scenario where Bradshaw re-signs in Indy after this year. If Indy doesn't get a back of Bradshaw's caliber, Richardson should get A LOT of touches, and could become a FF RB1, due to a high volume of touches. For redraft, however, the Colts have Bradshaw on their roster, and he is better than Richardson right now, so he will take enough touches to prevent Richardson from compiling RB1 type FF points.

[Einstein's Dog 20]

Ok, this clearly needs to be said: You don't trade away a first round draft pick for a player .... just kidding.

 

It doesn't matter. The Colts might be wrong about Richardson and not know it yet. They may have overvalued him, too. He may just be an average guy for the first few years of his career. Look at Jerome Bettis, he was pretty much average for like 10 years and then all of a sudden became a beast.

 

What's clear, is that floor for Richardson, being just OK for a few years, is a more long term solution than Bradshaw. I drafted both these players, and right now, if they were both healthy, I would tell you that Bradshaw is the more talented and versatile back. There's really no arguing that point. Bradshaw IS the better, more dynamic RB of the two, right now. But Bradshaw is not a long term solution.

 

And there you have it. Going forward, as long as Bradshaw is healthy, you can expect him to get a good number of carries, and he will likely out produce Richardson, this year.

 

The Colts could care less about your fantasy football team.

You could say Bradshaw is the better back but you would be wrong. And how is there no arguing the point? Two pro organizations have deemed TRich first round material, while Bradshaw twisted in the wind on the free agent market. Pro teams do not think Bradshaw is anywhere near TRich.

 

Bradshaw outproduce TRich? You've lost it.

 

Why would you expect Bradshaw to get a lot of carries if Indy installs a power running scheme. Think Bus, Emmit Smith, Lynch, even S Jax or Eddie George - the power runners don't share many carries. It is part of the philosophy of wearing down a defense. You would not be instituting the philosophy of the power run game if you gave Bradshaw 40% ot the carries.

 

Jeff Tuell outperformed EF Manual, M Simms outperformed Geno, and Bradshaw looked better than TRich in one game. A small sample sized deviation is not enough to change a decision that has been invested in heavily. The decision to feature TRich was made with the trade, no one would change their mind based on one respectable showing out of Bradshaw.

[The Hood 9]

Ok, this clearly needs to be said: You don't trade away a first round draft pick for a player .... just kidding.

 

It doesn't matter. The Colts might be wrong about Richardson and not know it yet. They may have overvalued him, too. He may just be an average guy for the first few years of his career. Look at Jerome Bettis, he was pretty much average for like 10 years and then all of a sudden became a beast.

 

 

This might be one of the dumbest things you've ever said. Which is no small feat.

 

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BettJe00.htm

[Houston Texans 10]

You could say Bradshaw is the better back but you would be wrong. And how is there no arguing the point? Two pro organizations have deemed TRich first round material, while Bradshaw twisted in the wind on the free agent market. Pro teams do not think Bradshaw is anywhere near TRich.

32 pro organizations passed on drafting Arian Foster, and Donald Brown was drafted in the 1st round that year, so obviously Donald Brown is the better back. That is the logic you're using. Can you please stop with the 1st round nonsense? After those picks are used, they don't matter (with regards to who is the better player). If a player picked in the 6th round produces more than a player picked in the 1st round, the 6th rounder is the better NFL player, PERIOD.

 

Bradshaw outproduce TRich? You've lost it.

Why? Richardson had 1 game where he WAS the workhorse. Bradshaw was out, and he got 20 carries. He put up 12.6 FF points. Bradshaw had 1 game where he was the workhorse. Ballard was out, Richardson trade hadn't happened yet. He put up 14.4 FF points. So, in similar situations (although Richardson's game was against a MUCH weaker defense), Bradshaw has outproduced Richardson. Yet someone who believes this has lost it? OK.

 

Why would you expect Bradshaw to get a lot of carries if Indy installs a power running scheme. Think Bus, Emmit Smith, Lynch, even S Jax or Eddie George - the power runners don't share many carries. It is part of the philosophy of wearing down a defense. You would not be instituting the philosophy of the power run game if you gave Bradshaw 40% ot the carries.

A "power running scheme" doesn't have to mean only one RB getting carries. Especially if that one RB isn't effective with those carries. You know what those RBs you mentioned have in common? They all averaged more than 3.5 YPC. Eddie George was the worst, but he averaged around 4.0 YPC early in his career, not 3.5. If your "power running scheme" can't generate enough yardage to get the first down, you have to throw, then you are no longer a running team. The Colts will use Bradshaw because using him, along with Richardson, is their best change to be a strong running team, which is what they want to be.

 

Jeff Tuell outperformed EF Manual, M Simms outperformed Geno, and Bradshaw looked better than TRich in one game. A small sample sized deviation is not enough to change a decision that has been invested in heavily. The decision to feature TRich was made with the trade, no one would change their mind based on one respectable showing out of Bradshaw.

As has already been noted, it's not a small sample size. Bradshaw has outperformed Richardson since Richardson got into the league. You can ignore that all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that it's true.

[Einstein's Dog 20]

Houston - the reason the first round pick was brought up is because Giantsfan thought there was no argument that Bradshaw was better. Of course there is. The real question is if Bradshaw is in the same league. And the opinion that matters on this question is Indy's. So far every indication is that Indy thinks TRich is far and away the better back for the system they want.

 

The reason it is so far fetched to think Bradshaw is going to outproduce TRich is because of the lack of opportunity. Generally a power running scheme is dependent upon one main back, I can't think of one that is not. And Bradshaw is not considered a power runner.

 

You can claim Bradshaw has outperformed TRich since they have been in the league, but obviously Indy does not share your point of view. The first round pick is relevant is because it is a recent first round pick. The whole current organization is totally biased and has a vested interest in TRIch succeeding. Using that resource just 60% of the time, doesn't justify the price you just paid. I doubt that is their plan.

 

A small hiccup, by a game by Bradshaw is not going to change the implementation of the plan. Not when such a huge investment was made.

[crazywhorse 6]

*yawn*

 

all this bickering is going no where. besides... good chance Bradshaw is out again this week.

 

 

Ahmad Bradshaw (neck) is not practicing Wednesday.

Bradshaw's neck injury appears to be more serious than the Colts originally let on. We've marked him as "week to week" instead of "day to day." If Bradshaw can't go in Week 5, Trent Richardson is going to carry the mail against the Seahawks' dominant front seven on Sunday. Donald Brown will be mixed in as well.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4305/ahmad-bradshaw

[Houston Texans 10]

Houston - the reason the first round pick was brought up is because Giantsfan thought there was no argument that Bradshaw was better. Of course there is. The real question is if Bradshaw is in the same league. And the opinion that matters on this question is Indy's. So far every indication is that Indy thinks TRich is far and away the better back for the system they want.

 

The reason it is so far fetched to think Bradshaw is going to outproduce TRich is because of the lack of opportunity. Generally a power running scheme is dependent upon one main back, I can't think of one that is not. And Bradshaw is not considered a power runner.

 

You can claim Bradshaw has outperformed TRich since they have been in the league, but obviously Indy does not share your point of view. The first round pick is relevant is because it is a recent first round pick. The whole current organization is totally biased and has a vested interest in TRIch succeeding. Using that resource just 60% of the time, doesn't justify the price you just paid. I doubt that is their plan.

 

A small hiccup, by a game by Bradshaw is not going to change the implementation of the plan. Not when such a huge investment was made.

I get where you are coming from, you believe that Indy wants Richardson to be a stud RB for them. He is obviously going to have a longer tenure with Indy than Bradshaw is. So, let's assume that you are right, and that is "their plan."

 

However, what they want, isn't going to matter on the field. They may want Richardson to be a stud, but he hasn't been anything close to a stud to this point in his career. Could that change? Yes, but blindly assuming that it will doesn't mean it will happen. If Richardson continues to put up 3.0-3.5 YPC, and Bradshaw is doing better than that (which he has, consistently, throughout his career), they will not chalk this season up to trying to make "their plan" for Richardson work. They will play the RB who performs better. That doesn't mean they will bench Richardson, but that Bradshaw will get more carries than you think he will. If that happens, Richardson isn't going to perform as a RB1.

[Canadianfan 76]

I get where you are coming from, you believe that Indy wants Richardson to be a stud RB for them. He is obviously going to have a longer tenure with Indy than Bradshaw is. So, let's assume that you are right, and that is "their plan."

 

However, what they want, isn't going to matter on the field. They may want Richardson to be a stud, but he hasn't been anything close to a stud to this point in his career. Could that change? Yes, but blindly assuming that it will doesn't mean it will happen. If Richardson continues to put up 3.0-3.5 YPC, and Bradshaw is doing better than that (which he has, consistently, throughout his career), they will not chalk this season up to trying to make "their plan" for Richardson work. They will play the RB who performs better. That doesn't mean they will bench Richardson, but that Bradshaw will get more carries than you think he will. If that happens, Richardson isn't going to perform as a RB1.

Take this with a grain of salt............

 

 

Colts coach Chuck Pagano acknowledged Wednesday newly acquired running back Trent Richardson hasn't had great numbers in his short time with Indianapolis, but he's not concerned. Pagano said Richardson's low yards-per-carry average (2.9) since the trade is because he's still getting used to the offensive scheme.

"He's a shoelace here or there from breaking some really big runs," Pagano said, per the team's official website.

(Updated 10/2/2013). More...

 

 

 

....Maybe he's trying to pump Richardsons wheels, OR maybe he's actually not concerned beacause Trent is still learning the offensive? Either way, I'm taking the coaches word that he'll be fine (bias Richardson owner). If he really is a shoelace away from breaking a big run, bring it on T-Rich!!! Surprise us all and put a sock into your doubters mouths! .........Maybe we can get 'HOUSTON TEXAN' singing a different tune.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Well of course that's what Pagano is going to say regardless. You don't come out and say that a guy you traded a first round pick for is probably going to be a failure, two games after you made the trade.

[Canadianfan 76]

Well of course that's what Pagano is going to say regardless. You don't come out and say that a guy you traded a first round pick for is probably going to be a failure, two games after you made the trade.

Your brilliant!

[seadog54 20]

ESPN's Adam Schefter reports Ahmad Bradshaw (neck) is doubtful for Week 5.

Bradshaw has yet to resume practicing and should be considered week to week. Trent Richardson will remain an every-down back for Sunday's game against the Seahawks in a tough matchup. Richardson is a back-end RB1 option against a Seattle defense that isn't as stout away from home. Arian Foster racked up 171 yards and a touchdown on 33 touches against the Seahawks in Week 4.

 

[JBT 1]

You could say Bradshaw is the better back but you would be wrong. And how is there no arguing the point? Two pro organizations have deemed TRich first round material, while Bradshaw twisted in the wind on the free agent market. Pro teams do not think Bradshaw is anywhere near TRich.

 

Bradshaw outproduce TRich? You've lost it.

 

Why would you expect Bradshaw to get a lot of carries if Indy installs a power running scheme. Think Bus, Emmit Smith, Lynch, even S Jax or Eddie George - the power runners don't share many carries. It is part of the philosophy of wearing down a defense. You would not be instituting the philosophy of the power run game if you gave Bradshaw 40% ot the carries.

 

Jeff Tuell outperformed EF Manual, M Simms outperformed Geno, and Bradshaw looked better than TRich in one game. A small sample sized deviation is not enough to change a decision that has been invested in heavily. The decision to feature TRich was made with the trade, no one would change their mind based on one respectable showing out of Bradshaw.

You really need to drop the first round argument. It's been beaten like a dead horse. Scouts are never wrong? What's Ryan Leaf up to these days? You could say Richardson is the better back and you'd be wrong too. It's one opinion vs. another. What's so crazy about saying Bradshaw would outproduce TRich? He's shown thus far he's quite capable. As for why Bradshaw wasn't getting much interest in free agency? I attribute that more to teams not wanting to deal with health issues than their judgement of his character.

[Einstein's Dog 20]

You really need to drop the first round argument. It's been beaten like a dead horse. Scouts are never wrong? What's Ryan Leaf up to these days? You could say Richardson is the better back and you'd be wrong too. It's one opinion vs. another. What's so crazy about saying Bradshaw would outproduce TRich? He's shown thus far he's quite capable. As for why Bradshaw wasn't getting much interest in free agency? I attribute that more to teams not wanting to deal with health issues than their judgement of his character.

You don't seem to understand the implications of being a number one pick. It is not that it means he is going to be good, it means he is going to get the opportunity. Ryan Leaf played. Indy is going to play TRich.

 

I believe it is crazy to think Bradshaw outproduces TRich because he won't get nearly as many carries and he won't get the goal line work.

 

Everything has gone according to script so far, and yet people keep denying it. Bradshaw has an ambiguous injury and surprise, surprise Indy is going to be very conservative in treating him. Coach has come out and said TRich is doing well.

 

Next weeks positive spin depends on what they have to work with. If he just does another pathetic sub 3 ypc it will be he actually improved because it was against a stellar D and the strides he has made in pass blocking or receiving. If he does a pedestrian 3.3 it will be all about his steady improvement. If he does anything approaching decent they will gush like little school girls.

[Houston Texans 10]

You don't seem to understand the implications of being a number one pick. It is not that it means he is going to be good, it means he is going to get the opportunity. Ryan Leaf played. Indy is going to play TRich.

 

I believe it is crazy to think Bradshaw outproduces TRich because he won't get nearly as many carries and he won't get the goal line work.

 

Everything has gone according to script so far, and yet people keep denying it. Bradshaw has an ambiguous injury and surprise, surprise Indy is going to be very conservative in treating him. Coach has come out and said TRich is doing well.

 

Next weeks positive spin depends on what they have to work with. If he just does another pathetic sub 3 ypc it will be he actually improved because it was against a stellar D and the strides he has made in pass blocking or receiving. If he does a pedestrian 3.3 it will be all about his steady improvement. If he does anything approaching decent they will gush like little school girls.

I understand the implications. I haven't said EVER that Bradshaw will get more touches than Richardson. You don't seem to understand that in 2013, RBBC is the way of the NFL.

 

If Adrian Peterson, a first round pick, who played MUCH better than Richardson gave up 40% of the carries to Chester Taylor (who he greatly out-performed), why can't you understand the idea that the Colts could give Bradshaw 40% of the carries if he is out-performing Richardson? NFL teams utilize RBBC because it works for them. If you have 2 viable RBs, you work them both, regardless of what your perception of a power-running scheme is. Peterson is THE DEFINITION of a "workhorse" back, he was putting up better numbers than Taylor, yet Taylor still got 40% of the work. The Colts have 2 viable RBs, when Bradshaw gets healthy. If Richardson doesn't improve, Bradshaw will perform better. They WILL give him work, even if you want to keep your head in the sand, that's your choice.

[JBT 1]

You don't seem to understand the implications of being a number one pick. It is not that it means he is going to be good, it means he is going to get the opportunity. Ryan Leaf played. Indy is going to play TRich.

 

I believe it is crazy to think Bradshaw outproduces TRich because he won't get nearly as many carries and he won't get the goal line work.

 

Everything has gone according to script so far, and yet people keep denying it. Bradshaw has an ambiguous injury and surprise, surprise Indy is going to be very conservative in treating him. Coach has come out and said TRich is doing well.

 

Next weeks positive spin depends on what they have to work with. If he just does another pathetic sub 3 ypc it will be he actually improved because it was against a stellar D and the strides he has made in pass blocking or receiving. If he does a pedestrian 3.3 it will be all about his steady improvement. If he does anything approaching decent they will gush like little school girls.

I absolutely understand the implications. And I agree he will be given every opportunity...after this year. But I don't agree that just because they gave up a first round draft pick for him, they're going to abandon a RB that's got more experience and is being more productive. I don't in the least expect them to give the majority of the snaps to Bradshaw unless Richardson gets hurt, but I don't see them phasing Bradshaw out in favor of Richardson just to give Richardson the "opportunity". If Bradshaw continues to produce more than Richardson you can bet they're going to find a way to keep him in the mix. And why not? You've got him a one year, you can run him until his legs fall off and save some tread on the tires of your future work horse. Makes sense to me. If Richardson starts to tear it up while Bradshaw's hurt with this injury it's a whole different story then.

[Canadianfan 76]

Throw all the Bradshaw/Richardson time share out the window. This neck for Bradshaw could be worse than we first thought. Why isn't anyone in the indy organization telling us what the injury is? I wouldn't be surprised we hear in the next few days that he'll require surgery and gone for the year.

 

 

lets just play the assumption game. What happens if Bradshaw is out for the year? discuss..

[Houston Texans 10]

Throw all the Bradshaw/Richardson time share out the window. This neck for Bradshaw could be worse than we first thought. Why isn't anyone in the indy organization telling us what the injury is? I wouldn't be surprised we hear in the next few days that he'll require surgery and gone for the year.

 

 

lets just play the assumption game. What happens if Bradshaw is out for the year? discuss..

If Bradshaw were out for the year, than I would have Richardson back at the pre-season ranking he had coming into the season with Cleveland. That ranking was based on the volume of touches he was expected to get. If his only real competition for those carries is Donald Brown, than I would expect him to get 20+ touches each week, and be a FF RB1.

[JBT 1]

Throw all the Bradshaw/Richardson time share out the window. This neck for Bradshaw could be worse than we first thought. Why isn't anyone in the indy organization telling us what the injury is? I wouldn't be surprised we hear in the next few days that he'll require surgery and gone for the year.

 

 

lets just play the assumption game. What happens if Bradshaw is out for the year? discuss..

 

 

I'd guess 75/25 Richardson/Brown.

[Canadianfan 76]

I'd guess 75/25 Richardson/Brown.

85/15 T-RICH

[seadog54 20]

Interview with coach pagano

 

Are you at all concerned about Trent Richardson only averaging about three yards per carry?

 

Im not concerned because its early still and (hes) getting acclimated to the system, to the calls, to his surroundings, to the people up front, getting used to the blocking, those type of things. Hes a shoelace here and there of breaking some really big runs, which obviously will change those numbers. The big thing for him, and for all of us, is just stay patient. We played a good front seven last week, Jacksonvilles really good up front. They got good linebackers that can run. He was a hair away on a couple runs in his first ball game at San Fran, and the second one there where he couldve ripped off a 20 or 30-yard run in a heartbeat, which obviously would change that average. He just needs to stay patient, we need to stay patient and the yards will come.

 

http://www.indystar.com/article/20131002/SPORTS03/310020059/Heard-Colts-locker-room-Getting-off-line-scrimmage-challenge-Colts-receivers-vs-Seattle-s-cornerbacks?nclick_check=1

[Houston Texans 10]

Interview with coach pagano

 

Are you at all concerned about Trent Richardson only averaging about three yards per carry?

 

Im not concerned because its early still and (hes) getting acclimated to the system, to the calls, to his surroundings, to the people up front, getting used to the blocking, those type of things. Hes a shoelace here and there of breaking some really big runs, which obviously will change those numbers. The big thing for him, and for all of us, is just stay patient. We played a good front seven last week, Jacksonvilles really good up front. They got good linebackers that can run. He was a hair away on a couple runs in his first ball game at San Fran, and the second one there where he couldve ripped off a 20 or 30-yard run in a heartbeat, which obviously would change that average. He just needs to stay patient, we need to stay patient and the yards will come.

 

http://www.indystar.com/article/20131002/SPORTS03/310020059/Heard-Colts-locker-room-Getting-off-line-scrimmage-challenge-Colts-receivers-vs-Seattle-s-cornerbacks?nclick_checkI

IMO, this is coach speak. What is he supposed to say, "He sucks, he can only average 3.0? Why did we trade a 1st for this guy?"

 

That being said, obviously, they are going to be patient with him. Bradshaw is hurt, they don't have anyone else right now. Even if Bradshaw were healthy, Richardson would still get his carries. They have to see if he can improve on what he's shown so far. They have him under contract for several moe years, and they are going to give him the chances. IF, however, he does't show some improvement by the time Bradshaw is back, I don't see them giving him 20+carries/game.

 

BTW-Jax is "really good up front. They got good linebackers that can run??" Why has every other RB that has faced them averaged 5.6 YPC then? Were they saving it all up for Richardson?

[Canadianfan 76]

IMO, this is coach speak. What is he supposed to say, "He sucks, he can only average 3.0? Why did we trade a 1st for this guy?"

 

That being said, obviously, they are going to be patient with him. Bradshaw is hurt, they don't have anyone else right now. Even if Bradshaw were healthy, Richardson would still get his carries. They have to see if he can improve on what he's shown so far. They have him under contract for several moe years, and they are going to give him the chances. IF, however, he does't show some improvement by the time Bradshaw is back, I don't see them giving him 20+carries/game.

 

BTW-Jax is "really good up front. They got good linebackers that can run??" Why has every other RB that has faced them averaged 5.6 YPC then? Were they saving it all up for Richardson?

Buddy, give it a rest. For fock sakes

[Houston Texans 10]

Buddy, give it a rest. For fock sakes

What are you talking about, "For fock sakes?"

 

This is a FF discussion board. I am discussing a FF subject, "For fock sakes."

 

You don't want to read what I type, don't. Either skip my posts, or put me on ignore, "For fock sakes."

[Canadianfan 76]

What are you talking about, "For fock sakes?"

 

This is a FF discussion board. I am discussing a FF subject, "For fock sakes."

 

You don't want to read what I type, don't. Either skip my posts, or put me on ignore, "For fock sakes."

Dude, you've spent WAY to much time on this... Move on, we get it. Go find Bradshaw and get on you knees.

[Houston Texans 10]

Dude, you've spent WAY to much time on this... Move on, we get it. Go find Bradshaw and get on you knees.

Again, don't read my posts if you don't want to. I don't particularly care if you want me to post or not. Your validation or approval means nothing to me.

[Canadianfan 76]

Again, don't read my posts if you don't want to. I don't particularly care if you want me to post or not. Your validation or approval means nothing to me.

Just pulling your leg buddy, LOL......I don't mind reading your posts! Full of wonderful facts.

[Einstein's Dog 20]

IMO, this is coach speak. What is he supposed to say, "He sucks, he can only average 3.0? Why did we trade a 1st for this guy?"

 

That being said, obviously, they are going to be patient with him. Bradshaw is hurt, they don't have anyone else right now. Even if Bradshaw were healthy, Richardson would still get his carries. They have to see if he can improve on what he's shown so far. They have him under contract for several moe years, and they are going to give him the chances. IF, however, he does't show some improvement by the time Bradshaw is back, I don't see them giving him 20+carries/game.

 

BTW-Jax is "really good up front. They got good linebackers that can run??" Why has every other RB that has faced them averaged 5.6 YPC then? Were they saving it all up for Richardson?

Why are you so dismissive about what he says, and yet so stubborn about what you think he is going to do? You say of course the coach said he is doing well, that is coach speak. Yet you have a hard time saying of course Indy is playing TRich they traded, mid-season, a first round pick for him.

 

You claim "if" he shows improvement. I'm telling you he will show improvement because the grader is the same group who brought him in. If he maintains his "good" 2.9 ypc it will be improvement because of the even stouter D he did it against. If he catches more than one pass, he is really getting the hang of the passing game. If none of the stats go up he probably would have really improved his pass protection. So, technically I suppose you're right, "if" he doesn't improve there is a chance Bradshaw gets a lot of carries. The thing is, with all my self-evaluations I have always improved.

 

As for Bradshaw's injury it looks a lot to me like the kind of thing Rob Johnson had when Flutie was taking over. I think Indy will be real cautious with Bradshaw, wouldn't want to rush him back. But if Vegas put out odds Bradshaw's chances of suiting back up they would increase after TRich puts up some good numbers. And after Bradshaw suits up, I wouldn't be surprised if they want to ease him back into playing.