Lamar Miller headed to Houston

[sirensong 111]

Glad I could amuse you. Thought I'd engage in a lucid and open minded discussion, but in hindsight will adjust accordingly.

 

 

did you forget where you were?

[Aaron Rudnicki 9]

Glad I could amuse you. Thought I'd engage in a lucid and open minded discussion, but in hindsight will adjust accordingly.

 

We could, but why on earth would you predict a backwards outcome when he will get more touches?

Seems unreasonable to see the added touches and say he cant get it or do even better.

[R8RMick 242]

 

 

did you forget where you were?

 

Lol... most certainly. Dude couldn't wrap his mind around Miller not being a Top 5 player. I gave a possible reason, based on a lot of what I'd seen and heard from most pundits. It wasn't an unreasonable one either. I think he just likes to argue, from what I've seen of course.

 

And off you go.

[Smileseers 54]

Lol... most certainly. Dude couldn't wrap his mind around Miller not being a Top 5 player. I gave a possible reason, based on a lot of what I'd seen and heard from most pundits. It wasn't an unreasonable one either. I think he just likes to argue, from what I've seen of course.

 

And off you go.

How about you give more than one possible reason why Miller won't be a top 5 RB next season???

[R8RMick 242]

How about you give more than one possible reason why Miller won't be a top 5 RB next season???

 

 

How about I just cut and paste my original reply-

 

The one knock on Miller is exactly what you keep referencing, the fact he hasn't proven himself in extensive action. Will he hold up? I personally think he can, but the question can't be ignored with the certainty you give it.

 

Houston has also made some moves on the offensive line, which is already pretty good. That defense should keep games close, giving Miller the opportunities. He caught 50 passes last year, no doubt they'll keep him busy out of the backfield down there. Finally, I like the guy because he doesn't fumble, averaging one every 140 carries. That's pretty good. Not sure about top five overall, he'll be battling a team mate for that feat as well. But top five RB? Most definitely.

[Ray_T 591]

RB2? You think there are going to be at least 12 RBs in the league better than him? I highly doubt it.

 

He's an RB1, only question is if he's top 5.

you are not taking all the downside risks into account.

 

and not only because of the risks associated with him.

 

There is also the risk that Osweiler may not be the QB the team thought he was.

 

In Miami, Millers YPC was decent even though he played behind a subpar line. Why? You could say talent was a part of it, but part of it was because the QB in miami was good enough to keep teams from stacking the box.

 

That makes up for a lot of line problems by itself.

 

Now Miller moves to a team with a better D, what should be a better line, and an unproven QB who looked a bit shaky at times in winning 5 of 7 starts on a team that many felt had the best Defense in football.

 

The only way Miller puts up top 5 numbers is if Osweiler also lights it up. Honestly, I'm just not seeing it.

 

I see a middling season from Osweiler and a slight bump in stats for Miller. Not enough to make him a full fledged RB1. You could make an argument for 8-10 on the RB list. But that's as high as it gets for me (my prediction is hes #10-12).

 

remember, you are looking at a Whole new Backfield like what we saw in Philly last year. New QB, New RB and a new system with some new and different wrinkles. This is basically a whole new offense. If you are predicting a top 5 result, you are expecting this offense that has never worked together to light it up out of the gates.

 

We saw how well that worked in Philly. They sucked early in the year, but did improve as the season wore on.

 

The reality is the offense needs to learn to play together as a unit. That takes time.

 

I expect a slow start for the first 3-5 games of the season and the stats for him and Osweiler will likely improve as the season progresses.

 

I'd be seriously surprised if Miller finished top 5. Top 10? sure. its possible. Top 5????? I dont think so.

 

There are too many downside risks to draft him as a top 5 RB and you'd be foolish to do so.

 

A top 5 RB should be money in the bank with very little risk. Miller isnt that guy. (at least not this year.... next year maybe. But this year?.... No)

[ralphster 274]

Miller is familiar enough with ZBS, and Osweiler will check down enough that Miller should be a RB1 through sheer volume alone. I'm thinking he touches the ball 22 times a game and ends up being RB 4-8 with 1200+ total yards along with 45 receptions. A solid every week starter.

[Aaron Rudnicki 9]

Miller is familiar enough with ZBS, and Osweiler will check down enough that Miller should be a RB1 through sheer volume alone. I'm thinking he touches the ball 22 times a game and ends up being RB 4-8 with 1200+ total yards along with 45 receptions. A solid every week starter.

 

Very good reason, volume seems to be the reason why some think a Top 5 player at RB can capitalize even more.

[Aaron Rudnicki 9]

you are not taking all the downside risks into account.

 

and not only because of the risks associated with him.

 

There is also the risk that Osweiler may not be the QB the team thought he was.

 

In Miami, Millers YPC was decent even though he played behind a subpar line. Why? You could say talent was a part of it, but part of it was because the QB in miami was good enough to keep teams from stacking the box.

 

That makes up for a lot of line problems by itself.

 

Now Miller moves to a team with a better D, what should be a better line, and an unproven QB who looked a bit shaky at times in winning 5 of 7 starts on a team that many felt had the best Defense in football.

 

The only way Miller puts up top 5 numbers is if Osweiler also lights it up. Honestly, I'm just not seeing it.

 

I see a middling season from Osweiler and a slight bump in stats for Miller. Not enough to make him a full fledged RB1. You could make an argument for 8-10 on the RB list. But that's as high as it gets for me (my prediction is hes #10-12).

 

remember, you are looking at a Whole new Backfield like what we saw in Philly last year. New QB, New RB and a new system with some new and different wrinkles. This is basically a whole new offense. If you are predicting a top 5 result, you are expecting this offense that has never worked together to light it up out of the gates.

 

We saw how well that worked in Philly. They sucked early in the year, but did improve as the season wore on.

 

The reality is the offense needs to learn to play together as a unit. That takes time.

 

I expect a slow start for the first 3-5 games of the season and the stats for him and Osweiler will likely improve as the season progresses.

 

I'd be seriously surprised if Miller finished top 5. Top 10? sure. its possible. Top 5????? I dont think so.

 

There are too many downside risks to draft him as a top 5 RB and you'd be foolish to do so.

 

A top 5 RB should be money in the bank with very little risk. Miller isnt that guy. (at least not this year.... next year maybe. But this year?.... No)

 

Wow everything you said is rhetoric and looks like a Trump supporter trying to justify Trump as President, unreal.

So much nonsense.

 

What makes him any riskier than anyone else?

What makes him more of a risk than Johnson? (rookie who can bust in year 2?)

Peterson? (Age?)

Freeman? (Was it a one year fluke?)

Bell (Coming of Injury)

Gurley (Will he be the sophomore who busts?)

 

It is comedy that people keep saying this no chance at Top 5, when he goes to a team that will use him more, when he was already a Top 5 RB.

 

Also, comparing any other team to a Chip Kelly team? Someone said it, I forgot where I was. Someone on this site actually did that and claim to know something about football.

 

Did Tannehill light it up, no, and Miller put up Top 5 numbers, but he needs Oz to? Logic is flawed in every word you have said.

 

Fabricated risks are not "risks" its just bad "thinking."

[IGotWorms 3,315]

you are not taking all the downside risks into account.

 

and not only because of the risks associated with him.

 

There is also the risk that Osweiler may not be the QB the team thought he was.

 

In Miami, Millers YPC was decent even though he played behind a subpar line. Why? You could say talent was a part of it, but part of it was because the QB in miami was good enough to keep teams from stacking the box.

 

That makes up for a lot of line problems by itself.

 

Now Miller moves to a team with a better D, what should be a better line, and an unproven QB who looked a bit shaky at times in winning 5 of 7 starts on a team that many felt had the best Defense in football.

 

The only way Miller puts up top 5 numbers is if Osweiler also lights it up. Honestly, I'm just not seeing it.

 

I see a middling season from Osweiler and a slight bump in stats for Miller. Not enough to make him a full fledged RB1. You could make an argument for 8-10 on the RB list. But that's as high as it gets for me (my prediction is hes #10-12).

 

remember, you are looking at a Whole new Backfield like what we saw in Philly last year. New QB, New RB and a new system with some new and different wrinkles. This is basically a whole new offense. If you are predicting a top 5 result, you are expecting this offense that has never worked together to light it up out of the gates.

 

We saw how well that worked in Philly. They sucked early in the year, but did improve as the season wore on.

 

The reality is the offense needs to learn to play together as a unit. That takes time.

 

I expect a slow start for the first 3-5 games of the season and the stats for him and Osweiler will likely improve as the season progresses.

 

I'd be seriously surprised if Miller finished top 5. Top 10? sure. its possible. Top 5????? I dont think so.

 

There are too many downside risks to draft him as a top 5 RB and you'd be foolish to do so.

 

A top 5 RB should be money in the bank with very little risk. Miller isnt that guy. (at least not this year.... next year maybe. But this year?.... No)

I guess our definitions of an RB1 differ. You said he's an RB2 I said no way he's at least a low-end RB1 and possibly top 5.

 

Now you're coming back and saying he's 10-12, well isn't that an RB1? Low end for sure, but unless you're playing in an 8 team league that is an RB1.

 

Basically we aren't really arguing, you're just taking the pessimistic view on whether he can finish top 5. A few years ago I probably would've agreed but there are so few sure things at the RB position these days

[Ray_T 591]

 

Wow everything you said is rhetoric and looks like a Trump supporter trying to justify Trump as President, unreal.

So much nonsense.

 

What makes him any riskier than anyone else?

What makes him more of a risk than Johnson? (rookie who can bust in year 2?)

Peterson? (Age?)

Freeman? (Was it a one year fluke?)

Bell (Coming of Injury)

Gurley (Will he be the sophomore who busts?)

 

It is comedy that people keep saying this no chance at Top 5, when he goes to a team that will use him more, when he was already a Top 5 RB.

 

Also, comparing any other team to a Chip Kelly team? Someone said it, I forgot where I was. Someone on this site actually did that and claim to know something about football.

 

Did Tannehill light it up, no, and Miller put up Top 5 numbers, but he needs Oz to? Logic is flawed in every word you have said.

 

Fabricated risks are not "risks" its just bad "thinking."

ok, I"ve supported my case with real examples and sound rationale. you've supported your case with very little. I've got nothing else to say.

[Ray_T 591]

I guess our definitions of an RB1 differ. You said he's an RB2 I said no way he's at least a low-end RB1 and possibly top 5.

 

Now you're coming back and saying he's 10-12, well isn't that an RB1? Low end for sure, but unless you're playing in an 8 team league that is an RB1.

 

Basically we aren't really arguing, you're just taking the pessimistic view on whether he can finish top 5. A few years ago I probably would've agreed but there are so few sure things at the RB position these days

well, RB1 to me is inside the top 10. there is upside to the point where he could be top 10. but that is the best case scenario.

 

you dont draft a guy where his best case scenario falls.

 

you draft a guy based on the midpoint of the range and adjust based on the upsides and the risks.

 

he has upside. but he also carries a lot of risk.

 

the bigger risk is that the whole backfield is new and have never played together. Not to mention playing with a different coach and a QB who may or may not be the real deal. (sample size is too small to tell for sure)

 

If that QB turns out to be the next Tim couch, teams will stack the box and Miller will have a subpar season.

 

You dont draft guys like this as if they were top 5.

 

that's why I draft him as a high end RB2 because if he does better I win.

 

If he slightly underperforms, I"m not hurtin that bad.

 

at least I'm not having a serious underperforming player selected in the first round.

 

that's where I"m coming from

[Aaron Rudnicki 9]

ok, I"ve supported my case with real examples and sound rationale. you've supported your case with very little. I've got nothing else to say.

 

No you have not. Rhetoric is not examples, its just rhetoric.

I have supported my case with more than rhetoric but with the fact that a top 5 performing RB is going to get more carries in a better offense.

[Aaron Rudnicki 9]

well, RB1 to me is inside the top 10. there is upside to the point where he could be top 10. but that is the best case scenario. No, RB1 is inside the Top 12 in a 12 team leagues

 

you dont draft a guy where his best case scenario falls. Rhetoric, that is exactly what you do by the definition of drafting, since its based off prognosticating.

 

you draft a guy based on the midpoint of the range and adjust based on the upsides and the risks. Rhetoric, I draft based off the points they will get me.

 

he has upside. but he also carries a lot of risk. Rhetoric, a lot of risk? No, he doesnt.

 

the bigger risk is that the whole backfield is new and have never played together. Not to mention playing with a different coach and a QB who may or may not be the real deal. (sample size is too small to tell for sure) Rhetoric, How do people ever change teams and succeed then?

 

If that QB turns out to be the next Tim couch, teams will stack the box and Miller will have a subpar season. Rhetoric

 

You dont draft guys like this as if they were top 5. Rhetoric

 

that's why I draft him as a high end RB2 because if he does better I win. Rhetoric

 

If he slightly underperforms, I"m not hurtin that bad. Rhetoric, Bell was the #1 RB drafted last year, he under performed, so did Lacy. It happens.

 

at least I'm not having a serious underperforming player selected in the first round.

 

that's where I"m coming from

rhet·o·ric (or as it is becoming known... Ray-T-o-ric)

ˈredərik/

noun

1. the art of effective or persuasive speaking or writing, especially the use of figures of speech and other compositional techniques.

   synonyms: oratory, eloquence, command of language, way with words

   "a form of rhetoric"

   • language designed to have a persuasive or impressive effect on its audience, but often regarded as lacking in sincerity or meaningful content.

     "all we have from the opposition is empty rhetoric"

     synonyms: bombast, turgidity, grandiloquence, magniloquence, pomposity,extravagant language, purple prose; More

[Super Cubs 132]

As a Texan fan I like them bring in Miller, but he most likely will not finish a top 5 Rb. I'm thinking more in the 10, 11, 12 range. The offense and o-line is not that great. I hope he does do better, but right now I don't see it.

[giraldi02 470]

The offense and o-line is not that great. I hope he does do better, but right now I don't see it.

This. While I'm optimistic about Miller, the line has depth issues. The Texans had eight different combinations over the first half of the season. Duane Brown tore his quad late in the season. They also lost Brandon Brooks to free agency.

 

I think they've done a decent job with the free agent signings along the line. Allen and Bergstrom should provide some depth in the interior. But again, the question is valid regarding the chemistry of the new pieces and whether or not it will take a while to adjust.

 

The other hypothetical I'm focusing on is not if Osweiler fails, but if he succeeds. Bill O'Brien has traditionally had a significant lean towards running the ball. But he's also never had a good QB. If Osweiler opens up that offense, the dependency of bailing out a horrible QB with the run game might not be so prevalent. Couple that with the potential development of not only Jaelen Strong, but Keith Mumphery and maybe a rookie, as well as Miller in the passing game, and I could see less carries...but he's still factoring in with PPR leagues.

 

Overall Miller went to the best possible landing spot for fantasy purposes regardless. Top 5 or top 10 or top 15 is semantics. I think most, if not all, of us see him having a safe floor for the first few running backs selected. In an age where we are constantly worried about time shares and workload, Miller now is void of those particular fears.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

well, RB1 to me is inside the top 10. there is upside to the point where he could be top 10. but that is the best case scenario.

 

you dont draft a guy where his best case scenario falls.

 

you draft a guy based on the midpoint of the range and adjust based on the upsides and the risks.

 

he has upside. but he also carries a lot of risk.

 

the bigger risk is that the whole backfield is new and have never played together. Not to mention playing with a different coach and a QB who may or may not be the real deal. (sample size is too small to tell for sure)

 

If that QB turns out to be the next Tim couch, teams will stack the box and Miller will have a subpar season.

 

You dont draft guys like this as if they were top 5.

 

that's why I draft him as a high end RB2 because if he does better I win.

 

If he slightly underperforms, I"m not hurtin that bad.

 

at least I'm not having a serious underperforming player selected in the first round.

 

that's where I"m coming from

 

Well you're probably not going to be able to so basically you won't have Lamar Miller on your team. And that's fine, but quit acting like you can wave a magic wand and make him the 15th RB off the board or something. It ain't gonna happen. Someone is drafting him among the top 10 RBs and if it isn't going to be you, then you aren't going to get him.

 

Personally I will roll those dice. You won't. But you act like there's a bunch of sure things among RBs out there and that just isn't true. Maybe 5 years ago, but times they have a changed.

[doggiestyles 1]

well, RB1 to me is inside the top 10. there is upside to the point where he could be top 10. but that is the best case scenario.

 

you dont draft a guy where his best case scenario falls.

 

you draft a guy based on the midpoint of the range and adjust based on the upsides and the risks.

 

he has upside. but he also carries a lot of risk.

 

the bigger risk is that the whole backfield is new and have never played together. Not to mention playing with a different coach and a QB who may or may not be the real deal. (sample size is too small to tell for sure)

 

If that QB turns out to be the next Tim couch, teams will stack the box and Miller will have a subpar season.

 

You dont draft guys like this as if they were top 5.

 

that's why I draft him as a high end RB2 because if he does better I win.

 

If he slightly underperforms, I"m not hurtin that bad.

 

at least I'm not having a serious underperforming player selected in the first round.

 

that's where I"m coming from

ok, lets see your top 10 list for running backs. I would be interested to see who you have 6-10.

[Aaron Rudnicki 9]

ok, lets see your top 10 list for running backs. I would be interested to see who you have 6-10.

 

I, second that motion.

[Aaron Rudnicki 9]

Why are posts getting deleted?

Why would posts about me asking someone for a list get deleted?

This happens far too often around here.

 

I mean if you want to direct the narrative as a mod, it is important people know that.

[Super Cubs 132]

Why are posts getting deleted?

Why would posts about me asking someone for a list get deleted?

This happens far too often around here.

 

I mean if you want to direct the narrative as a mod, it is important people know that.

 

maybe someone thinks you are being a tool

[giraldi02 470]

I'd speculate it's because there's two consecutive posts (both being the most recent comments on this thread, none of which pertains to the topic of the thread) stating to see a list from him. Don't we have a Top-10 RB thread for next season? http://www.fftodayforums.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=452588

 

But that's just my guess

[Aaron Rudnicki 9]

 

maybe someone thinks you are being a tool

 

Ironic, cause none of my posts are like this.

[ralphster 274]

 

Ironic, cause none of my posts are like this.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all.

 

Note: I believe that ANY thread starter can delete posts from a thread they start. Not positive, but I think it doesn't have to be a mod.

[Mike FF Today 608]

Why are posts getting deleted?

Why would posts about me asking someone for a list get deleted?

This happens far too often around here.

 

I mean if you want to direct the narrative as a mod, it is important people know that.

 

Because you already asked "someone" for a list. Asking them again wasn't necessary. Your post was nothing more than trolling and had no value to any kind of meaningful discussion of the topic.

 

Stop doing that. Participate in the discussion without making it personal or don't participate at all. End of discussion.

[Too Loud 5]

i had a post that is no longer here and an attempt to continue the discussion about miller and provided an actual list of 12 rbs.

where did it go the post i quoted is gone too.