The Big Short

[RLLD 4,230]

You guys are getting mad at the kid who stole a pack of gum instead of the guy who burned the whole store down and cashed in for the big bucks.

 

My anger is directed most acutely at the government, but then also too at the banksters, then the buyers and finally the morons who sold at just ignorant price levels. By its own actions, over and over, the government laid the groundwork, the banks also did their part and gleefully setup a system intended to harm people, then cried and demanded help when their greed nearly destroyed them

[FeelingMN 273]

So long as the appraiser conforms to the proper method of valuation they can avoid the dilemma I note.

What is the "proper method of valuation"?

[Bert 1,128]

You guys are getting mad at the kid who stole a pack of gum instead of the guy who burned the whole store down and cashed in for the big bucks.

Phil Graham and Bill Clinton created the environment for this to happen. All the other government officials did nothing to correct the problem. This is the main problem. But make no mistake many of the people taking out those mortgages are also to blame. Of course the banks were at best unethical.

[TD Ryan2 316]

What is the "proper method of valuation"?

]

 

It should be the one where the evaluator gets paid based on how good his ratings prove to be, not one where the evaluator just gets paid every time he simply makes a rating and gets return business every time that rating is AAA.

[Strike 5,538]

 

My anger is directed most acutely at the government, but then also too at the banksters, then the buyers and finally the morons who sold at just ignorant price levels

 

Only a true moron would think a person who sold their house for what it is worth and made bank was a moron.

[Strike 5,538]

]

 

It should be the one where the evaluator gets paid based on how good his ratings prove to be, not one where the evaluator just gets paid every time he simply makes a rating and gets return business every time that rating is AAA.

 

Doing otherwise would be unethical and likely illegal. And it wouldn't make sense. The banks WANT a proper appraisal. The appraisal is how they determine whether they'll get screwed if the homeowner defaults. So IMO appraisals weren't the problem. So, if that's true, RLLD wants the same system that was actually used.

[TD Ryan2 316]

 

Doing otherwise would be unethical and likely illegal.

but this is what happened.

the ratings agencies, are businesses granted ratings-power by the Federal Government.

Those agencies became more interested in labeling products AAA creating happy customers and increased volume (revenue/profit). And the issuers were more creative in hiding the risk with the investments.

 

So, as much as the ratings agencies were "supposed" to be honest, they were making a fortune by stamping everything AAA and then hiding behind the whole "we didn't understand how dirty the investments were" schtick. The people selling the dirty goods knew, the people rating the dirty goods knew - but they were all making so much money off of it, they didn't speak up.

[Strike 5,538]

but this is what happened.

the ratings agencies, are businesses granted ratings-power by the Federal Government.

Those agencies became more interested in labeling products AAA creating happy customers and increased volume (revenue/profit). And the issuers were more creative in hiding the risk with the investments.

 

So, as much as the ratings agencies were "supposed" to be honest, they were making a fortune by stamping everything AAA and then hiding behind the whole "we didn't understand how dirty the investments were" schtick. The people selling the dirty goods knew, the people rating the dirty goods knew - but they were all making so much money off of it, they didn't speak up.

 

That's not what we were just discussing. I believe the most recent discussion was in regard to the question posed to RLLD about how homes should be valued, which is done via appraisals. If the appraisals were accurate, then he is saying he wants the system that was in use at the time to continue to be used.

[RLLD 4,230]

What is the "proper method of valuation"?

Not treating homes as fungible, in terms of the current discussion, though this was not a factor in the other line of discussion regarding the housing fraud. There is some minor efforts to stray from the original topic right now

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

1% is probably close, but even in that, most of that should be focused on speculators more so.... but to pretend one who sold for the ridiculous prices is absolved, I just don't buy it, access to profit is not a good enough reason to hurt people, JMHO

During times of inflated prices, how does one determine the "fair" value for their home? And when they need another place to live during these times, how do they find someone else who prescribes to such a moral code?

 

ETA I see Worms already asked the question, though I don't understand your nebulous answer. Are your posts fungible?

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Some of you guys are just so goddamned stupid, it can't be helped

[penultimatestraw 473]

Some of you guys are just so goddamned stupid, it can't be helped

Although it must be nice having such a better understanding than everyone else, it's gotta be frustrating to be surrounded by nimrods.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Although it must be nice having such a better understanding than everyone else, it's gotta be frustrating to be surrounded by nimrods.

You are correct, Herr Doctor

[Hardcore troubadour 15,423]

Although it must be nice having such a better understanding than everyone else, it's gotta be frustrating to be surrounded by nimrods.

It's just so funny that everyone agrees a crime was committed, but a lot of people won't blame the guys who got all the money. They are mad at the people who actually lost money. Sure, call them stupid, but for gods sake, move on to the real bad guys. Instead they cover for the very people who have purchased our government, making sure nobody is checking them while they pull this shite.

 

Banker man grows fat

Working man grows thin

It's all happened before

And it will happen again

[IGotWorms 4,058]

It's just so funny that everyone agrees a crime was committed, but a lot of people won't blame the guys who got all the money. They are mad at the people who actually lost money. Sure, call them stupid, but for gods sake, move on to the real bad guys. Instead they cover for the very people who have purchased our government, making sure nobody is checking them while they pull this shite.

 

Banker man grows fat

Working man grows thin

It's all happened before

And it will happen again

Penny's a pretty smart dude but at the end of the day like so many others... stopping just short of realizing who it is that's completely focked them, and who it is that ought to pay

[Hardcore troubadour 15,423]

I was out with my 3 nephews tonight, sharp kids, oldest deciding between NYU and Boston College. We were talking about history and I asked them that as they get older and look back at two events in the 2000's, to please not blame me when they realize that the Iraq war was the biggest foreign policy blunder in our history, and how we let a few hundred people steal our nations wealth. I wasn't fooled by either or down with it. They are going to think we were the biggest dopes in history. They can blame their other right wing moron uncle

[penultimatestraw 473]

Penny's a pretty smart dude but at the end of the day like so many others... stopping just short of realizing who it is that's completely focked them, and who it is that ought to pay

Ummm...I don't think I've weighed in on this issue. For the record, I don't like bankers, career investors or anyone whose morals are guided solely by maximizing profit. But I sold my first house right before the bubble burst as I was going through a divorce, making money in the process. I paid my second home's mortgage early and have frozen my credit because I have no intention of getting another loan anytime soon. So who has completely focked me?