obama - transgender bs

[MDC 7,881]

Why does anybody care where trans people piss? I just don't get it. They're an infinitely small % of te population, they're likely going where they want anyway, and I'd guess they're far less likely to sexually assault a person than other folks. This is such a non issue.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

The island all you Neanderthals are standing on is getting smaller by the minute.

Rest of the world? Go ahead and look at a globe and look at all the countries you think approve of this nonsense. I'll save you some time and let you know you can discount the Muslim countries you're so fond of.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

Why does anybody care where trans people piss? I just don't get it. They're an infinitely small % of te population, they're likely going where they want anyway, and I'd guess they're far less likely to sexually assault a person than other folks. This is such a non issue.

So why did Charlotte NC feel the need to pass a law then?

[Frank M 181]

No. And? So no criteria in schools, just say you are and it's so?

I have no problem with certain criteria being met.

 

I also have no problem with people being told what to do in this situation. Sometimes you have to drag people into the future if they're unwilling to move towards it themselves.

[MDC 7,881]

So why did Charlotte NC feel the need to pass a law then?

I'm guessing because some restaurants / establishments wanted to make a big deal about it when they should've just let the trannies crap in peace.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

I have no problem with certain criteria being met.

 

I also have no problem with people being told what to do in this situation. Sometimes you have to drag people into the future if they're unwilling to move towards it themselves.

The future huh? Prohibition on alcohol was once the wave of the future. Everyone had to be moved towards that. Worked out great. De-regulating Wall Street was once the future, as a matter of fact the law was called the "financial services modernization act". That worked out well. I wonder how the first slaves felt about being at the vanguard of the future?

[Frank M 181]

Rest of the world? Go ahead and look at a globe and look at all the countries you think approve of this nonsense. I'll save you some time and let you know you can discount the Muslim countries you're so fond of.

What gives you the idea that I'm fond of Muslim countries? Because I don't condemn all of Islam for the actions of some Muslims?

 

That's drobeski level stupid.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

What gives you the idea that I'm fond of Muslim countries? Because I don't condemn all of Islam for the actions of some Muslims?

 

That's drobeski level stupid.

I don't hear you condemning them for their views and how they treat LGBT people. You save your scorn for a country that shows more respect for them than most of the world. We debate which bathroom they should use. They debate on how they should kill them.

[Sho Nuff 720]

What gives you the idea that I'm fond of Muslim countries? Because I don't condemn all of Islam for the actions of some Muslims?

 

That's drobeski level stupid.

They hate Muslim countries...yet want us to be like them when it comes to backward social policy and capital punishment

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

Why is Obama entering into a trade partnership with countries where homosexuality is illegal, and people are executed for it ? Why do we continue to sell weapons to Saudi Arabia? Maybe they will use our arms to execute LGBT people? Big man, pushing around a couple of states in his own country who do much more than recognize their right to exist, which those countries won't even do.

[Frank M 181]

I don't hear you condemning them for their views and how they treat LGBT people. You save your scorn for a country that shows more respect for them than most of the world. We debate which bathroom they should use. They debate on how they should kill them.

 

I expect a little bit more from the greatest country in the world than I do from third-world theocratic regimes.

 

I'm funny that way.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

They hate Muslim countries...yet want us to be like them when it comes to backward social policy and capital punishment

Yeah, not wanting a 13 year old girl to have to share a locker room with an 18 year old man is the same as imprisoning, torturing and executing trans gender people.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

 

I expect a little bit more from the greatest country in the world than I do from third-world theocratic regimes.

 

I'm funny that way.

Of course, but lives are on the line in those countries. Why is the president giving them a pass? I'd say the problem for those poor people is a bit more urgent.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

I have no problem with certain criteria being met.

 

I also have no problem with people being told what to do in this situation. Sometimes you have to drag people into the future if they're unwilling to move towards it themselves.

So the criteria will be based on a how a kid who isn't deemed mature enough to drink, smoke, vote, drive ect feels? Can't do that stuff, but you go ahead and decide what sex you want to be, and everyone else will adjust, and we won't respect how they feel, it's all about you and your comfort level, no one else's.

[Frank M 181]

Of course, but lives are on the line in those countries. Why is the president giving them a pass? I'd say the problem for those poor people is a bit more urgent.

Oh, so you were talking out of your ass when you said I was fond of Muslim countries.

 

I already knew it.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

Oh, so you were talking out of your ass when you said I was fond of Muslim countries.

 

I already knew it.

You have defended their religious beliefs in the past. And their religious beliefs are their political beliefs if you hadn't noticed.

[Frank M 181]

So the criteria will be based on a how a kid who isn't deemed mature enough to drink, smoke, vote, drive ect feels? Can't do that stuff, but you go ahead and decide what sex you want to be, and everyone else will adjust, and we won't respect how they feel, it's all about you and your comfort level, no one else's.

I guess so.

 

Not losing any sleep over it. Apparently you are.

[Frank M 181]

You have defended their religious beliefs in the past. And their religious beliefs are their political beliefs if you hadn't noticed.

I support anybody's right to believe whatever stupid sh!t they want to believe.

[Frank M 181]

You have defended their religious beliefs in the past. And their religious beliefs are their political beliefs if you hadn't noticed.

And since when did defending the right for anyone to believe whatever stupid thing they want to believe in equate to "fondness"?

 

Anywhere outside of your stupid head, I mean.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

And since when did defending the right for anyone to believe whatever stupid thing they want to believe in equate to "fondness"?

 

Anywhere outside of your stupid head, I mean.

And I'm the guy they gets accused of name calling ect. Not that I care, just sayin.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

And since when did defending the right for anyone to believe whatever stupid thing they want to believe in equate to "fondness"?

 

Anywhere outside of your stupid head, I mean.

Their beliefs( and actions) go way passed stupid. Yet you refuse to condemn. But you condemn your own countrymen for discussing opposing views.

[Frank M 181]

Their beliefs( and actions) go way passed stupid. Yet you refuse to condemn. But you condemn your own countrymen for discussing opposing views.

You have a strange definition of condemnation.

 

I'm not condemning people who have issue with transgender in the bathroom. I'm saying they're stupid and backwards.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

You have a strange definition of condemnation.

 

I'm not condemning people who have issue with transgender in the bathroom. I'm saying they're stupid and backwards.

Then what does that say about Islamic beliefs? Sharia law, which is practiced in many Muslim countries, is directly out of the Koran. You think stupid beliefs (in your opinion) is worse than brutal action.

[Frank M 181]

Then what does that say about Islamic beliefs? Sharia law, which is practiced in many Muslim countries, is directly out of the Koran. You think stupid beliefs (in your opinion) is worse than brutal action.

I couldn't care less about your obsession with Islam.

 

HTH

[penultimatestraw 473]

Why does anybody care where trans people piss? I just don't get it. They're an infinitely small % of te population, they're likely going where they want anyway, and I'd guess they're far less likely to sexually assault a person than other folks. This is such a non issue.

This guy gets it.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

Why does anybody care where trans people piss? I just don't get it. They're an infinitely small % of te population, they're likely going where they want anyway, and I'd guess they're far less likely to sexually assault a person than other folks. This is such a non issue.

Why do trans people care where they piss? You don't get it.

[MDC 7,881]

Why do trans people care where they piss? You don't get it.

What?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

What?

You say it's no big deal where they piss. If it's no big deal, just tell them to piss in the bathroom that coincides with their biology. It doesn't matter, right?

[wiffleball 4,797]

Rest of the world? Go ahead and look at a globe and look at all the countries you think approve of this nonsense. I'll save you some time and let you know you can discount the Muslim countries you're so fond of.

 

I can't believe that you and I actually agree on something. But, you are right. If people knew the sort of the bathroom accommodations that were Prevalent in most countries, they sure as hell would not approve of this.In many many countries, it is literally just a hole that you squat over.And again, as a society, what do we draw the line? Can I just piss outside the grocery store now Because I feel like a pigeon.There have to be some basic absolutes in this world.And, did anybody else notice that this conversation didn't even start until gay marriage was approved? Which I am all for, But it's like they all got together and said Okay let's get the gay marriage thing done Because we can't overload people with all our freakishness.As much as I hate the slippery slope argument, This seems to be the manifestation of exactly that.Wear a dress, where Wonder Woman costume for all I care, But if I had a daughter I certainly wouldn't want a grown-ass straight man anywhere near her when her genitals are exposed.

[MDC 7,881]

You say it's no big deal where they piss. If it's no big deal, just tell them to piss in the bathroom that coincides with their biology. It doesn't matter, right?

I said who cares, meaning if you're not trans why do you give a sh1t at all? Obviously it matters to trans people. If you looked like and considered yourself a man you probably wouldn't want to have to go in the ladies room.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

I said who cares, meaning if you're not trans why do you give a sh1t at all? Obviously it matters to trans people. If you looked like and considered yourself a man you probably wouldn't want to have to go in the ladies room.

The whole point is that only what matters to the trans is what's being considered. Do you really think it's ok for a 13 year old girl to have to share a locker room with an 18 year old transgender ? What about that girl?

[Sho Nuff 720]

I can't believe that you and I actually agree on something. But, you are right. If people knew the sort of the bathroom accommodations that were Prevalent in most countries, they sure as hell would not approve of this.In many many countries, it is literally just a hole that you squat over.And again, as a society, what do we draw the line? Can I just piss outside the grocery store now Because I feel like a pigeon.There have to be some basic absolutes in this world.And, did anybody else notice that this conversation didn't even start until gay marriage was approved? Which I am all for, But it's like they all got together and said Okay let's get the gay marriage thing done Because we can't overload people with all our freakishness.As much as I hate the slippery slope argument, This seems to be the manifestation of exactly that.Wear a dress, where Wonder Woman costume for all I care, But if I had a daughter I certainly wouldn't want a grown-ass straight man anywhere near her when her genitals are exposed.

The can I piss outside if I feel like it is the dumbest focking argument ever.

[jerryskids 7,083]

You think there's no physical basis for the kids you know being transgender because you're a good judge of people.

 

You have no idea of knowing that one way or another. To be fair I have no idea of knowing that every transgender has it coded within their genes. But I don't think it's a guy like you or me who suddenly decides he wants to be a she. Theres something else at play....more than just typical teenage angst.

 

 

Possibly something at play, but being somewhere on the spectrum between full male and full female doesn't mean that a gender change is right for all. Here is a site by a guy who went through gender change and later regretted it. I haven't vetted his facts, but he claims a 31% suicide rate for those who have gone through the change.

 

http://www.sexchangeregret.com/

[jerryskids 7,083]

Here is another article, from the former psychiatrist in chief at Johns Hopkins University.

 

For forty years as the University Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins Medical School—twenty-six of which were also spent as Psychiatrist in Chief of Johns Hopkins Hospital—I’ve been studying people who claim to be transgender. Over that time, I’ve watched the phenomenon change and expand in remarkable ways.

A rare issue of a few men—both homosexual and heterosexual men, including some who sought sex-change surgery because they were erotically aroused by the thought or image of themselves as women—has spread to include women as well as men. Even young boys and girls have begun to present themselves as of the opposite sex. Over the last ten or fifteen years, this phenomenon has increased in prevalence, seemingly exponentially. Now, almost everyone has heard of or met such a person.

Publicity, especially from early examples such as “Christine” Jorgenson, “Jan” Morris, and “Renee” Richards, has promoted the idea that one’s biological sex is a choice, leading to widespread cultural acceptance of the concept. And, that idea, quickly accepted in the 1980s, has since run through the American public like a revelation or “meme” affecting much of our thought about sex.

The champions of this meme, encouraged by their alliance with the broader LGBT movement, claim that whether you are a man or a woman, a boy or a girl, is more of a disposition or feeling about yourself than a fact of nature. And, much like any other feeling, it can change at any time, and for all sorts of reasons. Therefore, no one could predict who would swap this fact of their makeup, nor could one justifiably criticize such a decision.

At Johns Hopkins, after pioneering sex-change surgery, we demonstrated that the practice brought no important benefits. As a result, we stopped offering that form of treatment in the 1970s. Our efforts, though, had little influence on the emergence of this new idea about sex, or upon the expansion of the number of “transgendered” among young and old.

Olympic Athlete Turned "Pin-Up" Girl

This history may clarify some aspects of the latest high-profile transgender claimant. Bruce Jenner, the 1976 Olympic decathlon champion, is turning away from his titular identity as one of the “world’s greatest male athletes.” Jenner announced recently that he “identifies as a woman” and, with medical and surgical help, is busy reconstructing his physique.

I have not met or examined Jenner, but his behavior resembles that of some of the transgender males we have studied over the years. These men wanted to display themselves in sexy ways, wearing provocative female garb. More often than not, while claiming to be a woman in a man’s body, they declared themselves to be “lesbians” (attracted to other women). The photograph of the posed, corseted, breast-boosted Bruce Jenner (a man in his mid-sixties, but flaunting himself as if a “pin-up” girl in her twenties or thirties) on the cover ofVanity Fair suggests that he may fit the behavioral mold that Ray Blanchard has dubbed an expression of “autogynephilia”—from gynephilia (attracted to women) and auto (in the form of oneself).

The Emperor’s New Clothes

But the meme—that your sex is a feeling, not a biological fact, and can change at any time—marches on through our society. In a way, it’s reminiscent of the Hans Christian Andersen tale, The Emperor’s New Clothes. In that tale, the Emperor, believing that he wore an outfit of special beauty imperceptible to the rude or uncultured, paraded naked through his town to the huzzahs of courtiers and citizens anxious about their reputations. Many onlookers to the contemporary transgender parade, knowing that a disfavored opinion is worse than bad taste today, similarly fear to identify it as a misapprehension.

I am ever trying to be the boy among the bystanders who points to what’s real. I do so not only because truth matters, but also because overlooked amid the hoopla—enhanced now by Bruce Jenner’s celebrity and Annie Leibovitz’s photography—stand many victims. Think, for example, of the parents whom no one—not doctors, schools, nor even churches—will help to rescue their children from these strange notions of being transgendered and the problematic lives these notions herald. These youngsters now far outnumber the Bruce Jenner type of transgender. Although they may be encouraged by his public reception, these children generally come to their ideas about their sex not through erotic interests but through a variety of youthful psychosocial conflicts and concerns.

First, though, let us address the basic assumption of the contemporary parade: the idea that exchange of one’s sex is possible. It, like the storied Emperor, is starkly, nakedly false. Transgendered men do not become women, nor do transgendered women become men. All (including Bruce Jenner) become feminized men or masculinized women, counterfeits or impersonators of the sex with which they “identify.” In that lies their problematic future.

When “the tumult and shouting dies,” it proves not easy nor wise to live in a counterfeit sexual garb. The most thorough follow-up of sex-reassigned people—extending over thirty years and conducted in Sweden, where the culture is strongly supportive of the transgendered—documents their lifelong mental unrest. Ten to fifteen years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to twenty times that of comparable peers.

How to Treat Gender Dysphoria

So how should we make sense of this matter today? As with any mental phenomenon, what’s crucial is noting its fundamental characteristic and then identifying the many ways in which that characteristic can manifest itself.

The central issue with all transgender subjects is one of assumption—the assumption that one’s sexual nature is misaligned with one’s biological sex. This problematic assumption comes about in several different ways, and these distinctions in its generation determine how to manage and treat it.

Based on the photographic evidence one might guess Bruce Jenner falls into the group of men who come to their disordered assumption through being sexually aroused by the image of themselves as women. He could have been treated for this misaligned arousal with psychotherapy and medication. Instead, he found his way to surgeons who worked him over as he wished. Others have already commented on his stereotypic caricature of women as decorative “babes” (“I look forward to wearing nail polish until it chips off,” he said to Diane Sawyer)—a view that understandably infuriates feminists—and his odd sense that only feelings, not facts, matter here.

For his sake, however, I do hope that he receives regular, attentive follow-up care, as his psychological serenity in the future is doubtful. Future men with similar feelings and intentions should be treated for those feelings rather than being encouraged to undergo bodily changes. Group therapies are now available for them.

Most young boys and girls who come seeking sex-reassignment are utterly different from Jenner. They have no erotic interest driving their quest. Rather, they come with psychosocial issues—conflicts over the prospects, expectations, and roles that they sense are attached to their given sex—and presume that sex-reassignment will ease or resolve them.

The grim fact is that most of these youngsters do not find therapists willing to assess and guide them in ways that permit them to work out their conflicts and correct their assumptions. Rather, they and their families find only “gender counselors” who encourage them in their sexual misassumptions.

Those with Gender Dysphoria Need Evidence-Based Care

There are several reasons for this absence of coherence in our mental health system. Important among them is the fact that both the state and federal governments are actively seeking to block any treatments that can be construed as challenging the assumptions and choices of transgendered youngsters. “As part of our dedication to protecting America’s youth, this administration supports efforts to ban the use of conversion therapy for minors,” said Valerie Jarrett, a senior advisor to President Obama.

In two states, a doctor who would look into the psychological history of a transgendered boy or girl in search of a resolvable conflict could lose his or her license to practice medicine. By contrast, such a physician would not be penalized if he or she started such a patient on hormones that would block puberty and might stunt growth.

What is needed now is public clamor for coherent science—biological and therapeutic science—examining the real effects of these efforts to “support” transgendering. Although much is made of a rare “intersex” individual, no evidence supports the claim that people such as Bruce Jenner have a biological source for their transgender assumptions. Plenty of evidence demonstrates that with him and most others, transgendering is a psychological rather than a biological matter.

In fact, gender dysphoria—the official psychiatric term for feeling oneself to be of the opposite sex—belongs in the family of similarly disordered assumptions about the body, such as anorexia nervosa and body dysmorphic disorder. Its treatment should not be directed at the body as with surgery and hormones any more than one treats obesity-fearing anorexic patients with liposuction. The treatment should strive to correct the false, problematic nature of the assumption and to resolve the psychosocial conflicts provoking it. With youngsters, this is best done in family therapy.

The larger issue is the meme itself. The idea that one’s sex is fluid and a matter open to choice runs unquestioned through our culture and is reflected everywhere in the media, the theater, the classroom, and in many medical clinics. It has taken on cult-like features: its own special lingo, internet chat rooms providing slick answers to new recruits, and clubs for easy access to dresses and styles supporting the sex change. It is doing much damage to families, adolescents, and children and should be confronted as an opinion without biological foundation wherever it emerges.

But gird your loins if you would confront this matter. Hell hath no fury like a vested interest masquerading as a moral principle.

Paul McHugh, MD, is University Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins Medical School and the former psychiatrist in chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital. He is the author of The Mind Has Mountains: Reflections on Society and Psychiatry.

 

 

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/06/15145/

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

Pfffft. Johns Hopkins? What do those quacks know? I don't know how Frank M is going to handle highly regarded scientists disagreeing with him.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Here is another article, from the former psychiatrist in chief at Johns Hopkins University.

 

 

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/06/15145/

That's interesting, and admittedly, most transgenders I've encountered have been pretty nutty. As in the article, I think this speaks to the need to investigate evidence based care of transgender individuals. But I don't think improved societal acceptance is a bad thing in any event.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

That's interesting, and admittedly, most transgenders I've encountered have been pretty nutty. As in the article, I think this speaks to the need to investigate evidence based care of transgender individuals. But I don't think improved societal acceptance is a bad thing in any event.

My issue isn't social acceptance, and no matter what liberals say, you can't force that on people. Invoking regulations that have an adverse result on others not only harms the cause, it's just plain unfair. And withholding funds paid for by taxpayers for education is as wrongheaded and arrogant as you can get. The people in NC and Texas gave their money to the federal Gov't so it can be used in a fair and effective way, not as a club to get them in line with the beliefs of the executive branch. There's a reason the founders of our country did not put the money in the hands of the president, but in the hands of the people, the people's house to be specific. Money is the most powerful tool, and one man should not control it. They knew this way back then.

[jerryskids 7,083]

That's interesting, and admittedly, most transgenders I've encountered have been pretty nutty. As in the article, I think this speaks to the need to investigate evidence based care of transgender individuals. But I don't think improved societal acceptance is a bad thing in any event.

 

Improved acceptance is fine, but my main point is that a lot, if not the majority, of people who consider themselves transgender need some amount of counseling, and we can't say that because acceptance words$#@!

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

In 1963 President Kennedy ordered the integration of the Alabama university system. Gov George Wallace refused to comply with the order. After negotiations broke down, Presisent Kennedy ordered the National Guard mobilized to ensure that black students were given the opportunity to register. That's how a Man does it. He didn't take some wuss way out and hide behind threatening to withhold federal funding, like the current President has chosen to do. I surmise that he's too much of a coward to withstand the political fall out that would ensue if he took a measure like that. And why won't he do it, if it's such an important civil rights issue? This guy is a rank amateur. Imagine standing up to racism and enforcing the constitution in the south back then by threatening to withhold funds? They would have laughed.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

 

Improved acceptance is fine, but my main point is that a lot, if not the majority, of people who consider themselves transgender need some amount of counseling, and we can't say that because acceptance words$#@!

Here here