obama - transgender bs

[Frank M 181]

Pfffft. Johns Hopkins? What do those quacks know? I don't know how Frank M is going to handle highly regarded scientists disagreeing with him.

I'm not going to lose a second of sleep over it. Thanks for your concern, though.

 

Oh, and RMFF.

[Frank M 181]

 

Improved acceptance is fine, but my main point is that a lot, if not the majority, of people who consider themselves transgender need some amount of counseling, and we can't say that because acceptance words$#@!

Who said they don't need counseling? Do you know the amount of counselling that is required for sex reassignment?

 

The argument isn't that there aren't true transgendered people or that they aren't the least bit focked up, it's discrimination towards them.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

Who said they don't need counseling? Do you know the amount of counselling that is required for sex reassignment?

 

The argument isn't that there aren't true transgendered people or that they aren't the least bit focked up, it's discrimination towards them.

Ok, how's about this, people who want to be recognized as trans gender have to go through counseling first, and wait until they are adults to make that huge, life altering decision?

[Frank M 181]

Ok, how's about this, people who want to be recognized as trans gender have to go through counseling first, and wait until they are adults to make that huge, life altering decision?

How about people decide for themselves what they want to believe and do with their lives?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

How about people decide for themselves what they want to believe and do with their lives?

Adult people? Sure. But let's say for now we put this alongside driving, voting, drinking, joining the army and all the rest of the the big decisions we don't let kids make?

[GobbleDog 1,010]

Google - The most frequently cited estimate is that 700,000 people in the United States, or about 0.2 to 0.3 percent of the population, are transgender

If it was 10%, I'd be a lot more sympathetic. As it is, my answer to this new problem is the same old solution - go to whichever bathroom doesn't piss off the most people.

[Frank M 181]

Adult people? Sure. But let's say for now we pit this alongside driving, voting, drinking, joining the army and all the rest of the the big decisions we don't let kids make?

Exactly how do you not allow kids to decide who and what they are or how they feel inside?

[GobbleDog 1,010]

Exactly how do you not allow 0.3% of kids to decide who and what they are or how they feel inside?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

Exactly how do you not allow kids to decide who and what they are or how they feel inside?

I didn't tell them not to feel. I'm not against these kids, they would be welcome in my home if they were a friend of my kid. I'm just trying to look out for some other kids. Those kids count too.

[Frank M 181]

I didn't tell them not to feel. I'm not against these kids, they would be welcome in my home if they were a friend of my kid. I'm just trying to look out for some other kids. Those kids count too.

You phrased it as a decision they shouldn't be allowed to make.

[jerryskids 7,083]

Who said they don't need counseling? Do you know the amount of counselling that is required for sex reassignment?

 

The argument isn't that there aren't true transgendered people or that they aren't the least bit focked up, it's discrimination towards them.

 

Apparently they aren't getting effective counselling, if my links are in any way accurate.

[GobbleDog 1,010]

You phrased it as a decision they shouldn't be allowed to make.

 

It's a decision they have to make. Conform with society or not. The world ain't built for them and I see their problem. I just don't see any practical solutions - bathroom wise.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

You phrased it as a decision they shouldn't be allowed to make.

I mean to say that it's a decision that shouldn't be recognized until they are of age. I feel this is a collegiate issue, not a junior high school or a high school issue. I'm concerned about immature kids on both sides of it. I could care less about the bathroom policy at Applebees or the mall.

[Frank M 181]

 

Apparently they aren't getting effective counselling, if my links are in any way accurate.

If my kid said he was transgender, counseling would be the first thing I'd explore.

 

I'm not sure I agree with his premise that since counseling is lacking for people who feel like they are transgender, there are likely way fewer true transgenders.

 

If I understand the premise correctly.

[Frank M 181]

I mean to say that it's a decision that shouldn't be recognized until they are of age. I feel this is a collegiate issue, not a junior high school or a high school issue. I'm concerned about immature kids on both sides of it. I could care less about the bathroom policy at Applebees or the mall.

Most transgender people know what they are long before adulthood.

 

Did you know you were a normal straight male when you were a teenager?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

Most transgender people know what they are long before adulthood.

 

Did you know you were a normal straight male when you were a teenager?

I'm sure some do. And some think they are. It's a pretty important decision, and I'm sure many kids change their minds. And some more go to counseling and realize they aren't, that they have other issues. That's the point of the counseling. Yes, I knew. I was obsessed with playboy, penthouse and real girls.

[jerryskids 7,083]

If my kid said he was transgender, counseling would be the first thing I'd explore.

 

I'm not sure I agree with his premise that since counseling is lacking for people who feel like they are transgender, there are likely way fewer true transgenders.

 

If I understand the premise correctly.

 

I think you understand my basic premise, which is that a lot of people think they are transgender who are not.

 

Most transgender people know what they are long before adulthood.

 

Did you know you were a normal straight male when you were a teenager?

 

and while your first sentence is most likely true, that does not have anything to do with confused teens who mistakenly think they are transgender.

[Frank M 181]

 

I think you understand my basic premise, which is that a lot of people think they are transgender who are not.

 

 

and while your first sentence is most likely true, that does not have anything to do with confused teens who mistakenly think they are transgender.

 

All of this sounds like the same arguments that people used to use about gay people. Timmy's not really gay, he just needs counseling,

 

Could it also possibly be that with the explosion of social media, people who were too afraid to express how they felt now have an outlet to meet people of like mind and circumstances, and as such don't feel as compelled to hide?

[FeelingMN 273]

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2013/04/biology.aspx

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/science-in-transition-understanding-the-biology-behind-gender-identity/article25553156/

 

[wiffleball 4,797]

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2013/04/biology.aspx

 

 

 

So I was right all along. Science itself has proven That being a tranny Is a mental disorder. Like being A psychopath Or the newly-termned personality disorder.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/science-in-transition-understanding-the-biology-behind-gender-identity/article25553156/

 

[Frank M 181]

 

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2013/04/biology.aspx

 

 

 

So I was right all along. Science itself has proven That being a tranny Is a mental disorder. Like being A psychopath Or the newly-termned personality disorder.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/science-in-transition-understanding-the-biology-behind-gender-identity/article25553156/

 

 

 

Actually, neither link says anything of the sort.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

 

All of this sounds like the same arguments that people used to use about gay people. Timmy's not really gay, he just needs counseling,

 

Could it also possibly be that with the explosion of social media, people who were too afraid to express how they felt now have an outlet to meet people of like mind and circumstances, and as such don't feel as compelled to hide?

 

Jerry always was a "pray away the ghey" kind of guy

[jerryskids 7,083]

 

Jerry always was a "pray away the ghey" kind of guy

 

You idiots keep posting articles supporting that transgenderism is biological, which I don't dispute, for true transgenders.

[Frank M 181]

 

You idiots keep posting articles supporting that transgenderism is biological, which I don't dispute, for true transgenders.

 

But you just don't believe there are that many, and many wouldn't be if they got counseling. I contend there are as many now as there ever were, percentage wise, they're just more visible.

[Djgb13 2,339]

 

But you just don't believe there are that many, and many wouldn't be if they got counseling. I contend there are as many now as there ever were, percentage wise, they're just more visible.

I believe there is a certain influence from the public that makes some people come out as transgender when they are in fact not. The true transgender people are very few in number. But we are led to believe there's a lot more of them

[parrot 789]

I believe there is a certain influence from the public that makes some people come out as transgender when they are in fact not. The true transgender people are very few in number. But we are led to believe there's a lot more of them

 

There are other "public influence(s)" - things like bigotry, ridicule, and discrimination - that cause many more transgenders to never come out at all; likely orders of magnitude more than those false positive transgenders. You can't make any kind of judgment based on personal observation of those who are "out".

[FeelingMN 273]

Apparently they aren't getting effective counselling, if my links are in any way accurate.

Seems like there might have been some inaccuracies with one of your links. But that happens sometimes in OP ED pieces.

 

http://www.transadvocate.com/clinging-to-a-dangerous-past-dr-paul-mchughs-selective-reading-of-transgender-medical-literature_n_13842.htm

[MDC 7,881]

The whole point is that only what matters to the trans is what's being considered. Do you really think it's ok for a 13 year old girl to have to share a locker room with an 18 year old transgender ? What about that girl?

 

There may be some gray area there when kids are involved, although I think the scenario you paint above is incredibly rare and probably would matter less to the 13 y/o than you think. If transgenders are allowed to use the public bathroom of their choice I don't see how this is so much more different than a 18 y/o trans using the john that a 13 y/o happens to be in. And I don't think the trans in either case poses any threat to the 13 y/o.

 

Yeah I guess overall I think trans should be able to use the bathroom of their choice. The reverse has even more potential for awkwardness and again, I suspect the rates of trans people who are pedophiles / sexual abusers is lower than the general public.

[jerryskids 7,083]

 

But you just don't believe there are that many, and many wouldn't be if they got counseling. I contend there are as many now as there ever were, percentage wise, they're just more visible.

 

Neither of us knows. The difference is that I acknowledge that there are biological transgenders; the left seems to really struggle to accept the opposite.

[Frank M 181]

Seems like there might have been some inaccuracies with one of your links. But that happens sometimes in OP ED pieces.

 

http://www.transadvocate.com/clinging-to-a-dangerous-past-dr-paul-mchughs-selective-reading-of-transgender-medical-literature_n_13842.htm

 

Yeah, this guy sounds like a real gem:

 

 

 

Paul McHugh

-- University Distinguished Professor of Psychiatry at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine

-- Former member of the United State Conference of Catholic Bishop's National Review Board

 

Facts

-- Refers to homosexuality as "erroneous desire"

-- Argues that being medically accomodating to a transgender child is "like performing liposuction on an anorexic child"

-- Filed an amicus brief arguing in favor of Proposition 8 on the basis that homosexuality is a "choice."

--Describes post surgical trans women as "caricatures of women"

-- As part of the USCCB's Review Board, pushed the idea that the Catholic sex abuse scandal was not about pedophilia but about “homosexual predation on American Catholic youth.”

 

 

 

http://www.glaad.org/cap/paul-mchugh

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

 

There may be some gray area there when kids are involved, although I think the scenario you paint above is incredibly rare and probably would matter less to the 13 y/o than you think. If transgenders are allowed to use the public bathroom of their choice I don't see how this is so much more different than a 18 y/o trans using the john that a 13 y/o happens to be in. And I don't think the trans in either case poses any threat to the 13 y/o.

 

Yeah I guess overall I think trans should be able to use the bathroom of their choice. The reverse has even more potential for awkwardness and again, I suspect the rates of trans people who are pedophiles / sexual abusers is lower than the general public.

I don't push the pedophile angle. I know enough about them to know that they come in all forms. My issue is schools that adolescents attend. What happens outside of schools is not the big concern, the issue is easily avoided outside of the school setting. Don't like what the mall does? Don't go there. In school there isn't a choice.

[MDC 7,881]

I don't push the pedophile angle. I know enough about them to know that they come in all forms. My issue is schools that adolescents attend. What happens outside of schools is not the big concern, the issue is easily avoided outside of the school setting. Don't like what the mall does? Don't go there. In school there isn't a choice.

The only awkwardness would be knowing someone is a trans in the john with you. In all my years in NY and PHL plus extensive travel all over I can honestly say I can't remember once being in a public bathroom with an obvious trans although the law of averages says it happened many times.

[BLS 314]

How about people decide for themselves what they want to believe and do with their lives?

 

Freedom's a pretty cool concept isn't it?

It's too bad more people don't understand it should apply to ALL things, not just the ones each side cherry-picks.

[TimmySmith 2,783]

The only awkwardness would be knowing someone is a trans in the john with you. In all my years in NY and PHL plus extensive travel all over I can honestly say I can't remember once being in a public bathroom with an obvious trans although the law of averages says it happened many times.

If the law changed it wouldn't have to be a tranny with you in the bathroom. Could be anyone.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

If the law changed it wouldn't have to be a tranny with you in the bathroom. Could be anyone.

So what your saying is that a according to the law, anyone can use whatever facility they want, regardless if they are transgender or not?

[MDC 7,881]

If the law changed it wouldn't have to be a tranny with you in the bathroom. Could be anyone.

I find it very odd that conservatives think there are pedophiles out there just waiting for the laws to change before going to molest kids in public johns. As if sexual predators are respecting bathroom privacy right now but just waiting for the tranny loophole to give them access to fresh meat.

[Frank M 181]

I find it very odd that conservatives think there are pedophiles out there just waiting for the laws to change before going to molest kids in public johns. As if sexual predators are respecting bathroom privacy right now but just waiting for the tranny loophole to give them access to fresh meat.

 

And none of them have said anything about the FACT that sexual predators are assaulting boys in the bathroom they're supposed to go in as we speak.

 

No, the real worry is that they'll dress up like women to get access to the ladies' room.

[Strike 6,017]

Man, I wish Fumbleweed was here to talk some sense on this topic.

 

[Frank M 181]

Man, I wish Fumbleweed was here to talk some sense on this topic.

 

 

Yeah, I wonder what an evangelical Christian thinks about the whole transgender issue?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

 

And none of them have said anything about the FACT that sexual predators are assaulting boys in the bathroom they're supposed to go in as we speak.

 

No, the real worry is that they'll dress up like women to get access to the ladies' room.

But according to the law, nobody has to dress up as anything. Anyone can do as they please, wherever they want.