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cmh6476

Chiefs release OL Fisher and Schwartz

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Fisher the former 1st overall pick LT.  Schwartz will likely retire.

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Like I said before, when you have Mahomes, who needs an O-line?

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1 hour ago, AxeElf said:

Like I said before, when you have Mahomes, who needs an O-line?

He could have used one in the super bowl

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1 hour ago, cmh6476 said:

He could have used one in the super bowl

It might have helped, but Mahomes still did enough to win; it was his receivers that let him down.  More time to throw won't help if the ball is just going to bounce off the receiver's facemask anyway.

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Super bowl runs are  over. 

 

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20 hours ago, AxeElf said:

Like I said before, when you have Mahomes, who needs an O-line?

Yeah, that was really evident in the Super Bowl.

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3 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Yeah, that was really evident in the Super Bowl.

Right?  The Chiefs could have put zero offensive linemen out there and Mahomes would have still gotten his passes downfield.  I mean maybe if they ever faced some really effective pass-rushers or something, but Mahomes can beat most defenses out there all by himself, as he showed in SBLV.  Unfortunately, he can't catch his own passes (under most circumstances).

I won't even say that we need new receivers who can catch, because normally, I'd say his corps is pretty solid--they just picked a bad day to have a bad day.

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1 hour ago, AxeElf said:

Right?  The Chiefs could have put zero offensive linemen out there and Mahomes would have still gotten his passes downfield.  I mean maybe if they ever faced some really effective pass-rushers or something, but Mahomes can beat most defenses out there all by himself, as he showed in SBLV.  Unfortunately, he can't catch his own passes (under most circumstances).

I won't even say that we need new receivers who can catch, because normally, I'd say his corps is pretty solid--they just picked a bad day to have a bad day.

LOL, you're still bitter?  🤣

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11 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

LOL, you're still bitter?  🤣

Well sure...  To have the best team in the NFL for the past three years and then go out in the most important game of the year and catch 26 of 49 balls is not how you want your receivers to perform in the Big One.  Some of those throws by Mahomes would have been replayed forever if they hadn't bounced off of hands and face masks in the end zone.

So yeah, it's a bitter pill for sure--but there's comfort in knowing we're only 3 years into our 10 year dynasty.

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53 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Well sure...  To have the best team in the NFL for the past three years and then go out in the most important game of the year and catch 26 of 49 balls is not how you want your receivers to perform in the Big One.  Some of those throws by Mahomes would have been replayed forever if they hadn't bounced off of hands and face masks in the end zone.

So yeah, it's a bitter pill for sure--but there's comfort in knowing we're only 3 years into our 10 year dynasty.

make no mistake, the drops hurt, but the poorly performing o line definitely hurt mahomes effectiveness otherwise

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1 hour ago, Ray_T said:

make no mistake, the drops hurt, but the poorly performing o line definitely hurt mahomes effectiveness otherwise

Could the line have been better?  Sure, but it wasn't the reason the Chiefs lost Super Bowl LV.  Mahomes was indeed sacked 3 times, but he also got off 49 passes.  The fact that only 26 of them were caught is the reason the Chiefs lost Super Bowl LV.  Two of those drops directly cost them two TDs; many more prematurely ended drives that could have resulted in points.

Honorable mention on the List of Responsibility goes to the clock management at the end of the half, with the Chiefs calling timeouts that allowed Tampa Bay to score again, even knowing that they were getting the ball to begin the second half.

The offensive line is pretty far down on the List.  Had the receivers been on their game, the patchwork offensive line may have been responsible for the Chiefs scoring 42 points instead of 56 points, but neither total would have cost them the game.

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1 hour ago, AxeElf said:

Well sure...  To have the best team in the NFL for the past three years and then go out in the most important game of the year and catch 26 of 49 balls is not how you want your receivers to perform in the Big One.  Some of those throws by Mahomes would have been replayed forever if they hadn't bounced off of hands and face masks in the end zone.

So yeah, it's a bitter pill for sure--but there's comfort in knowing we're only 3 years into our 10 year dynasty.

It's easy to catch passes when you're wide open.  It's easy to be wide open when you're QB gets the ball out cleanly.  It's easy for you QB to get the ball out cleanly, when your OLine is blocking for you.  That whole game, Tampa got pressure causing the WR's (and Kelce), to adlib their routes the whole game.  That was uncomfortable for them.  They weren't able to handle that pressure.  Basically, they're weak willed... no mental toughness.  They weren't capable of adjusting to adversity.  Don't know how that'll be fixed any time soon.

Go back and watch film on the Atlanta / KC game in the second to last game of the season.  Even with a healthy OLine, the Chiefs couldn't stop Atlanta's pass rush.  Again, Mahomes was running for his life.  Now, it wasn't the whole game because Atlanta's defense wasn't good enough to cause that, but it was his worst statistical game of the season (not counting the Super Bowl), and one of the worst in his career.  No pass catcher had what you'd call a great game.  Yeah, Kelce had 7 for 98 and a score, but he had 13 targets.  Tyreek Hill didn't do much, 4 for 65 and he had the 2nd best receiving numbers on the team that week.

Their entire offence and game plan is all about the big play.  They're not methodical at all, about moving down the field and scoring TD's.  There's nothing wrong with that when it's working.  When the QB has time to throw the ball, but in the games against Atlanta and Tampa, no time = bad results.  Now, that's not a novel concept, it's like that for everyone.  Which points to, while Mahomes is great, he can't make up for bad OLine... just like other great QB's.

I can assure you this, the Chiefs rein is basically over, for now.  The book has been written and is out.  Atlanta introduced it, Tampa executed it.  Play Cover 2, generate a pass rush with 4 or 5 guys, don't blitz.  Done.  Atlanta was in the bottom third of the league defense, and they held the Chiefs to 17 points.  Now, the Chiefs will absolutely still make the playoffs, but I don't think you'll see them in AFC Championship game in the next couple years... or well, until they get their OLine fixed.  Something they have going for them is Andy Reid loves drafting OL'men, which is a great thing.  He just needs to be right.

Hill's entire game, is speed.  He just finished his age 26 season, but his contract is up after the 2022 season (he'll be 29 heading into FA).  Good luck with that speed holding up.  Something he does have going for him is that Joey Galloway, Vincent Jackson, and DeSean Jackson all were able to keep up a good speed into their 30's, so he could be just like one of those guys.  Good luck to him.  Good luck to the Chiefs is that's what they're going to be banking on.  Chiefs just gave big money to Kelce, locking him up until 2026.  Prior to this season, Kelce was credited with 0 drops... he had 4 this year.  He's heading into his age 31 season.  Good luck with that too.  Father time is undefeated... except for when he goes up against Tom Brady.  Looks like Mahomes is having a problem with that too.  :shocking:

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54 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

It's easy to catch passes when you're wide open.  It's easy to be wide open when you're QB gets the ball out cleanly.  It's easy for you QB to get the ball out cleanly, when your OLine is blocking for you.  That whole game, Tampa got pressure causing the WR's (and Kelce), to adlib their routes the whole game.  That was uncomfortable for them.  They weren't able to handle that pressure.  Basically, they're weak willed... no mental toughness.  They weren't capable of adjusting to adversity.  Don't know how that'll be fixed any time soon.

Go back and watch film on the Atlanta / KC game in the second to last game of the season.  Even with a healthy OLine, the Chiefs couldn't stop Atlanta's pass rush.  Again, Mahomes was running for his life.  Now, it wasn't the whole game because Atlanta's defense wasn't good enough to cause that, but it was his worst statistical game of the season (not counting the Super Bowl), and one of the worst in his career.  No pass catcher had what you'd call a great game.  Yeah, Kelce had 7 for 98 and a score, but he had 13 targets.  Tyreek Hill didn't do much, 4 for 65 and he had the 2nd best receiving numbers on the team that week.

Their entire offence and game plan is all about the big play.  They're not methodical at all, about moving down the field and scoring TD's.  There's nothing wrong with that when it's working.  When the QB has time to throw the ball, but in the games against Atlanta and Tampa, no time = bad results.  Now, that's not a novel concept, it's like that for everyone.  Which points to, while Mahomes is great, he can't make up for bad OLine... just like other great QB's.

I can assure you this, the Chiefs rein is basically over, for now.  The book has been written and is out.  Atlanta introduced it, Tampa executed it.  Play Cover 2, generate a pass rush with 4 or 5 guys, don't blitz.  Done.  Atlanta was in the bottom third of the league defense, and they held the Chiefs to 17 points.  Now, the Chiefs will absolutely still make the playoffs, but I don't think you'll see them in AFC Championship game in the next couple years... or well, until they get their OLine fixed.  Something they have going for them is Andy Reid loves drafting OL'men, which is a great thing.  He just needs to be right.

Hill's entire game, is speed.  He just finished his age 26 season, but his contract is up after the 2022 season (he'll be 29 heading into FA).  Good luck with that speed holding up.  Something he does have going for him is that Joey Galloway, Vincent Jackson, and DeSean Jackson all were able to keep up a good speed into their 30's, so he could be just like one of those guys.  Good luck to him.  Good luck to the Chiefs is that's what they're going to be banking on.  Chiefs just gave big money to Kelce, locking him up until 2026.  Prior to this season, Kelce was credited with 0 drops... he had 4 this year.  He's heading into his age 31 season.  Good luck with that too.  Father time is undefeated... except for when he goes up against Tom Brady.  Looks like Mahomes is having a problem with that too.  :shocking:

You seem to have a lot of time on your hands, but let's be clear that I'm not talking about passes that didn't get thrown because the makeshift O-line couldn't keep the defenders at bay, or hurried passes that were behind the receiver, in the dirt, or defended by an opponent.  I'm talking about the perfectly thrown balls--DESPITE the pressure--that bounced harmlessly off of a receiver's hands--in the end zone on two of those occasions.

That's the reason the Chiefs lost Super Bowl LV; not the inability of the QB to get the ball to his receivers.  Mahomes doesn't need much protection to manufacture catchable passes--but it's still not a completion without the catch.

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1 minute ago, AxeElf said:

You seem to have a lot of time on your hands, but let's be clear that I'm not talking about passes that didn't get thrown because the makeshift O-line couldn't keep the defenders at bay, or hurried passes that were behind the receiver, in the dirt, or defended by an opponent.  I'm talking about the perfectly thrown balls--DESPITE the pressure--that bounced harmlessly off of a receiver's hands--in the end zone on two of those occasions.

That's the reason the Chiefs lost Super Bowl LV; not the inability of the QB to get the ball to his receivers.  Mahomes doesn't need much protection to manufacture catchable passes--but it's still not a completion without the catch.

 Nah, this is just common knowledge for people who pay attention.

Ah, ok, more excuses.  Well, I'll just tell you to go back to my post where I called the receivers weak willed with no mental toughness.  Maybe instead of getting offensive linemen, maybe they should replace Kelce who dropped passes and Hill who couldn't get open.  LOL, all the dropped passes.  Give me a break.  They were scared and afraid to get hit.  Dump those losers, Kelce, Hill, and Hardman and bring in men, not children... then we'll talk about it not being the OLine.

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Russell Wilson wants out of Seattle because his OL sucks, but yeah, QB's don't need a good line... This thread is beyond moronic.

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I think just like Seattle with Wilson, KC with Mahomes won a super bowl, and then lost one, KC won’t make it back to the Super Bowl while Mahomes is their starting Qb, now that’s a prediction    

Money. 

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9 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

 Nah, this is just common knowledge for people who pay attention.

Ah, ok, more excuses.  Well, I'll just tell you to go back to my post where I called the receivers weak willed with no mental toughness.  Maybe instead of getting offensive linemen, maybe they should replace Kelce who dropped passes and Hill who couldn't get open.  LOL, all the dropped passes.  Give me a break.  They were scared and afraid to get hit.  Dump those losers, Kelce, Hill, and Hardman and bring in men, not children... then we'll talk about it not being the OLine.

See my previous post.

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On 3/12/2021 at 2:23 PM, TBayXXXVII said:

It's easy to catch passes when you're wide open.  It's easy to be wide open when you're QB gets the ball out cleanly.  It's easy for you QB to get the ball out cleanly, when your OLine is blocking for you.  That whole game, Tampa got pressure causing the WR's (and Kelce), to adlib their routes the whole game.  That was uncomfortable for them.  They weren't able to handle that pressure.  Basically, they're weak willed... no mental toughness.  They weren't capable of adjusting to adversity.  Don't know how that'll be fixed any time soon.

Go back and watch film on the Atlanta / KC game in the second to last game of the season.  Even with a healthy OLine, the Chiefs couldn't stop Atlanta's pass rush.  Again, Mahomes was running for his life.  Now, it wasn't the whole game because Atlanta's defense wasn't good enough to cause that, but it was his worst statistical game of the season (not counting the Super Bowl), and one of the worst in his career.  No pass catcher had what you'd call a great game.  Yeah, Kelce had 7 for 98 and a score, but he had 13 targets.  Tyreek Hill didn't do much, 4 for 65 and he had the 2nd best receiving numbers on the team that week.

Their entire offence and game plan is all about the big play.  They're not methodical at all, about moving down the field and scoring TD's.  There's nothing wrong with that when it's working.  When the QB has time to throw the ball, but in the games against Atlanta and Tampa, no time = bad results.  Now, that's not a novel concept, it's like that for everyone.  Which points to, while Mahomes is great, he can't make up for bad OLine... just like other great QB's.

I can assure you this, the Chiefs rein is basically over, for now.  The book has been written and is out.  Atlanta introduced it, Tampa executed it.  Play Cover 2, generate a pass rush with 4 or 5 guys, don't blitz.  Done.  Atlanta was in the bottom third of the league defense, and they held the Chiefs to 17 points.  Now, the Chiefs will absolutely still make the playoffs, but I don't think you'll see them in AFC Championship game in the next couple years... or well, until they get their OLine fixed.  Something they have going for them is Andy Reid loves drafting OL'men, which is a great thing.  He just needs to be right.

Hill's entire game, is speed.  He just finished his age 26 season, but his contract is up after the 2022 season (he'll be 29 heading into FA).  Good luck with that speed holding up.  Something he does have going for him is that Joey Galloway, Vincent Jackson, and DeSean Jackson all were able to keep up a good speed into their 30's, so he could be just like one of those guys.  Good luck to him.  Good luck to the Chiefs is that's what they're going to be banking on.  Chiefs just gave big money to Kelce, locking him up until 2026.  Prior to this season, Kelce was credited with 0 drops... he had 4 this year.  He's heading into his age 31 season.  Good luck with that too.  Father time is undefeated... except for when he goes up against Tom Brady.  Looks like Mahomes is having a problem with that too.  :shocking:

I agree TBay.

the pressure also made Mahomes throw the ball sooner than normal on some plays too.   This affects the WR's as well.  if the ball is coming sooner than expected it can surprise them leading to a drop.

We know this shouldnt happen with a pro WR, but these things still do happen.

At the end of the day it no longer matters.   bad drops, poor line.  The TBay Defense should take some credit.  While the offense got a lot of the accolades, it was the Defense who was the star of the superbowl (in my opinion). 

it looks like changes are already in the works in KC for the line.

Reid is a smart guy.  I dont doubt there is a plan there somewhere.  I wouldnt say these guys are finished.  not yet anyhow.

The pieces are still in place at the skill positions.   if the line is the only fatal flaw, Reid can likely do something.  Whether it be a trade, a signing or in the draft. (or all)

I'm not going out and betting they will win it next year.  I'm just saying dont write em off yet.   Even with the line as bad as they were, Mahomes got them to the superbowl.   So they are not That far off.

I know you think Tampa showed how its done, but the reality is not many teams have the ability to generate pressure without blitzing.  not the kind of pressure we say in the superbowl anyhow.    So its not like everyone can go out and execute a gameplan like this.   I'd argue 2/3 of the league cant do it.

If KC can win all those games and win half the games against teams who can execute that kind of gameplan they are still a top tier playoff team.

also assuming Reid can fix some of the issues with personell moves we could see KC making noise in the playoffs still.

Odds of winning are lower for sure.   But certainly far from zero.

 

 

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That’s nice, but they didn’t even score a td in the last super bowl.  

Title runs for KC with Mahomes soon will be just a memory for KC fans. 

 

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5 hours ago, AxeElf said:

Maybe one reason the Chiefs aren't as dependent on a superior offensive line...

Chiefs run 200 more RPOs than any other NFL team.

yep.   thats also how you shorten the career of your starting QB.

they did a lot of RPO's in Carolina.   They also had a subpar line.  He took an awful lot of hits and look where he is now.

make no mistake about it, an athletic QB who is a threat to run will always be able to make plays when the protection breaks down and will cover up some of the flaws in an O line.

but those types of players usually have shorter careers.

I applaud KC for realizing this and making a top quality signing to begin free agency.    This wont solve all the problems, but its a good start.

if need be, they can draft a RT with their first round pick and a Centre with their second round pick. 

I admit this may be a tall order but it likely can be done if they cannot sign another quality player.

top half of round one is usually LT candidates.  second half of round 1 and early round 2 is your RT candidates.  Centres often go in round 2-3 unless they look like all pros out of the gate.  That rarely happens as centres are not as easy to project at the pro level.

either way, I'd expect one more signing at the very least.

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2 hours ago, Ray_T said:

yep.   thats also how you shorten the career of your starting QB.

they did a lot of RPO's in Carolina.   They also had a subpar line.  He took an awful lot of hits and look where he is now.

make no mistake about it, an athletic QB who is a threat to run will always be able to make plays when the protection breaks down and will cover up some of the flaws in an O line.

but those types of players usually have shorter careers.

I think you may be confusing the RPO (in which the QB has the option of handing off to a RB or throwing a pass) with the QB Option (sometimes called the "Read Option," in which case the QB has the option of keeping the ball and running with it).  They did a lot of the latter in Carolina--and in Washington with RG3

An RPO axually exposes the QB to LESS risk than either a normal run or a normal pass play, because the QB has the option of running whichever the defense is less prepared to defend.  The QB Option/Read Option, on the other hand, exposes the QB to significant risk when the QB opts to run the ball himself.

I don't think Mahomes is a particularly talented runner (like Newton or RG3), but he's highly adept at manufacturing ways to get the ball downfield without much protection, and the skillful utilization of RPOs is one reason why.

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8 hours ago, weepaws said:

That’s nice, but they didn’t even score a td in the last super bowl.  

Title runs for KC with Mahomes soon will be just a memory for KC fans. 

 

You do realize mahomes, kelce and Jones ask restructured this week to help kc with the cap, right? Before long most qbs will be making over 30m per.

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On 3/14/2021 at 5:20 AM, Ray_T said:

I know you think Tampa showed how its done, but the reality is not many teams have the ability to generate pressure without blitzing.  not the kind of pressure we say in the superbowl anyhow.    So its not like everyone can go out and execute a gameplan like this.   I'd argue 2/3 of the league cant do it.

No, actually.  I stated that it was the Raiders and Atlanta who showed how it's done.  Tampa just had a better defense than the Raiders and a better offense than the Falcons.  The Raiders did give up 32 points in that first meeting, but remember that 17 of those points came in the 2nd Qtr.  They turned the ball over on their side of the field and allowed the Chiefs to start one drive on the Vegas 10 yard line and they held them to a FG in another drive.  They only allowed one real TD drive in that quarter.  The last TD was an 'oh by the way' score that made the margin of victory 8 points instead of 16.  When you look at it, the Raiders defense only gave up 2 TD drives and 1 FG drive.  The offense handed them the ball on the 10 yard line and the Chiefs got a throw away TD with 3 minutes left in the game.

Atlanta held the Chiefs to 17 points back in December.  The Falcons didn't sack Mahomes at all that game.  They didn't have a defense like Tampa's where they kept knocking him down, but they did pressure him that whole game.  They held Mahomes to a 55% completion percentage that game.   He only threw for 278 yards.  The Falcons were winning and the Chiefs needed a TD at the 2 minute mark of the game, to win.

Neither the Raiders nor Falcons had the DLine that Tampa did, but they still contained the Chiefs pretty well.  The Chiefs never adjusted all year because teams didn't force them too.  The Falcons saw what the Raiders did and they were a little better with it... plus they didn't lose the turnover battle.  After that Raiders game... the Chiefs won 10 games in a row before the garbage game at the end, right?  Well, of those 10 games, the last 6 were all 1-score games.  Andy Reid, while a good personnel guy and motivator, he's not a good Game Day coach.  Teams can beat him before they even take the field.  Any team that goes into a game vs the Chiefs with the game plan of rushing no more than 5 guys, never blitzing, and playing a Cover-2 zone, already beat the Chiefs because Reid doesn't adjust.  Heck, you even saw that in the Super Bowl.  Never once did KC throw in an extra TE or 2 to help blocking on the line.  They never tried to dink and dunk and take those 4, 5, or 6 yard dump plays that Tampa was giving them.  Nope.  Downfield. Downfield.  Downfield.  All game.  It never worked and they never stopped trying.  The Chiefs will have to play the Raiders twice next year and the improving Chargers.  They'll also have to play the Steelers, Browns, Bills, Giants, Cowboys, Ravens, Titans, and Redskins.  All of them have either really good defenses and/or offenses.  That's 12 of 17 games that their opponent will give them a hard time.  They only have 4 "pushovers" they'll have is Denver twice, the Bengals, and Eagles.  My guess is that they're either going to have to play the Packers as their 17th game, so that won't be a pushover either.

Mark my words, the Chiefs are an extremely talented team and will beat many teams just in talent, but they're not winning 12 games next year.  I see their ceiling at 11 and a 3-seed in the playoffs.  They'll likely win their first playoff game, but that's it.  That's their future until they can build a good defense.  Well, they might get 12 wins since they're going to a 17-game season, but I think you get my point.

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44 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

No, actually.  I stated that it was the Raiders and Atlanta who showed how it's done.  Tampa just had a better defense than the Raiders and a better offense than the Falcons.  The Raiders did give up 32 points in that first meeting, but remember that 17 of those points came in the 2nd Qtr.  They turned the ball over on their side of the field and allowed the Chiefs to start one drive on the Vegas 10 yard line and they held them to a FG in another drive.  They only allowed one real TD drive in that quarter.  The last TD was an 'oh by the way' score that made the margin of victory 8 points instead of 16.  When you look at it, the Raiders defense only gave up 2 TD drives and 1 FG drive.  The offense handed them the ball on the 10 yard line and the Chiefs got a throw away TD with 3 minutes left in the game.

Atlanta held the Chiefs to 17 points back in December.  The Falcons didn't sack Mahomes at all that game.  They didn't have a defense like Tampa's where they kept knocking him down, but they did pressure him that whole game.  They held Mahomes to a 55% completion percentage that game.   He only threw for 278 yards.  The Falcons were winning and the Chiefs needed a TD at the 2 minute mark of the game, to win.

Neither the Raiders nor Falcons had the DLine that Tampa did, but they still contained the Chiefs pretty well.  The Chiefs never adjusted all year because teams didn't force them too.  The Falcons saw what the Raiders did and they were a little better with it... plus they didn't lose the turnover battle.  After that Raiders game... the Chiefs won 10 games in a row before the garbage game at the end, right?  Well, of those 10 games, the last 6 were all 1-score games.  Andy Reid, while a good personnel guy and motivator, he's not a good Game Day coach.  Teams can beat him before they even take the field.  Any team that goes into a game vs the Chiefs with the game plan of rushing no more than 5 guys, never blitzing, and playing a Cover-2 zone, already beat the Chiefs because Reid doesn't adjust.  Heck, you even saw that in the Super Bowl.  Never once did KC throw in an extra TE or 2 to help blocking on the line.  They never tried to dink and dunk and take those 4, 5, or 6 yard dump plays that Tampa was giving them.  Nope.  Downfield. Downfield.  Downfield.  All game.  It never worked and they never stopped trying.  The Chiefs will have to play the Raiders twice next year and the improving Chargers.  They'll also have to play the Steelers, Browns, Bills, Giants, Cowboys, Ravens, Titans, and Redskins.  All of them have either really good defenses and/or offenses.  That's 12 of 17 games that their opponent will give them a hard time.  They only have 4 "pushovers" they'll have is Denver twice, the Bengals, and Eagles.  My guess is that they're either going to have to play the Packers as their 17th game, so that won't be a pushover either.

Mark my words, the Chiefs are an extremely talented team and will beat many teams just in talent, but they're not winning 12 games next year.  I see their ceiling at 11 and a 3-seed in the playoffs.  They'll likely win their first playoff game, but that's it.  That's their future until they can build a good defense.  Well, they might get 12 wins since they're going to a 17-game season, but I think you get my point.

They've got a good defense.  They continue to address it in the draft and I don't see that changing anytime soon, complementing players like Tyrann Mathieu and Chris Jones.  They seemed to have hit on LB Willie Gay and DB L'Jarius Sneed last year.  They seemed to hit on DB Juan Thornhill the year before.  An edge rusher and some LB help would help, but this defense has some playmakers.

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1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

That's their future until they can build a good defense. 

KC D gave up less than half a point a game more than Tampa D last season (22.2 vs 22.6). They were tied for 10th fewest points given up per game. They don't have to build something, just tweak a few things...

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46 minutes ago, cmh6476 said:

They've got a good defense.  They continue to address it in the draft and I don't see that changing anytime soon, complementing players like Tyrann Mathieu and Chris Jones.  They seemed to have hit on LB Willie Gay and DB L'Jarius Sneed last year.  They seemed to hit on DB Juan Thornhill the year before.  An edge rusher and some LB help would help, but this defense has some playmakers.

Their defense was good when teams were letting the Chiefs offense run rampant.  That won't happen in the future.  Time will tell if they actually do have a good defense when their opponents aren't one-dimensional anymore.

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19 minutes ago, jrokh said:

KC D gave up less than half a point a game more than Tampa D last season (22.2 vs 22.6). They were tied for 10th fewest points given up per game. They don't have to build something, just tweak a few things...

As I just posted to cmh, their defense was good when other teams' offenses were one dimensional.  Teams are going to start playing the Chiefs differently going forward.  The Raiders dropped 71 points on the Chiefs in two games and Tampa dropped 31 on them in the Super Bowl.  Go look at their season.  In their first 8 games, they gave up an average of 19 ppg.  Great right?  Yup.  What about the last 8 though?  They gave up 26.25.  That's not so good is it?  Their average margin of victory in those first 8 games was 12.6 points.  Not counting the last game, which doesn't really count, their average margin of victory was only 3.9 points.  Teams started to figure them out.  Watch what happens when teams have a full off season to go back and watch those games.

These things happen in cycles.  It worked for the Chiefs for 2 years and now teams are catching up.  Next season won't be like the last two.  It'll be up to the Chiefs to adjust after that.  Andy Reid is stubborn, that's why I think it'll take them 2 or 3 years to figure it out.  Like I said, they'll still be good.  I'm not saying they're going to suck, I'm just saying "The Dynasty" it's over for right now.

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14 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

As I just posted to cmh, their defense was good when other teams' offenses were one dimensional.  Teams are going to start playing the Chiefs differently going forward.  The Raiders dropped 71 points on the Chiefs in two games and Tampa dropped 31 on them in the Super Bowl.  Go look at their season.  In their first 8 games, they gave up an average of 19 ppg.  Great right?  Yup.  What about the last 8 though?  They gave up 26.25.  That's not so good is it?  Their average margin of victory in those first 8 games was 12.6 points.  Not counting the last game, which doesn't really count, their average margin of victory was only 3.9 points.  Teams started to figure them out.  Watch what happens when teams have a full off season to go back and watch those games.

These things happen in cycles.  It worked for the Chiefs for 2 years and now teams are catching up.  Next season won't be like the last two.  It'll be up to the Chiefs to adjust after that.  Andy Reid is stubborn, that's why I think it'll take them 2 or 3 years to figure it out.  Like I said, they'll still be good.  I'm not saying they're going to suck, I'm just saying "The Dynasty" it's over for right now.

With their explosive 'O' they only need an adequate D anyway to be in the Title mix. I'm not talking about dynasties, but I'd put money on the Chiefs this year over TB...

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7 minutes ago, jrokh said:

With their explosive 'O' they only need an adequate D anyway to be in the Title mix. I'm not talking about dynasties, but I'd put money on the Chiefs this year over TB...

You're just assuming that the league won't take what Vegas, Atlanta, and Tampa showed them and just try to still outgun them?  No, you didn't say dynasty, it was just a point.  You can put your money on the Chiefs over Tampa.  It's your money to lose.  I'm willing to guess you did that last summer too.  How'd that work out?  Barring injury, Tampa is getting back to the Super Bowl next year.  The Chiefs are not.

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You're just assuming the Chiefs will remain static. They are already shoring up their biggest weakness, the Oline. Chiefs advance further than Tampa this season book it...

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1 hour ago, jrokh said:

You're just assuming the Chiefs will remain static. They are already shoring up their biggest weakness, the Oline. Chiefs advance further than Tampa this season book it...

Yeah, not much holding this team's potential back.  Damien Williams and Duvant-Tardiff back, plus this new OL guy and the Chiefs aren't done.  Some are saying they're the front runner for Trent Williams.  Hill and Kelce didn't just go away, and Hardman should be even better than last year.  And they've been addressing the D via the draft and the Chiefs have a decent amount of picks this year.  

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1 hour ago, jrokh said:

You're just assuming the Chiefs will remain static. They are already shoring up their biggest weakness, the Oline. Chiefs advance further than Tampa this season book it...

No, I'm expecting it to be good... again.  It was good last year.  The names may change, but I expect the production to be there.  PFF had them at #11 by years end and that's with losing one of their starters early in the season.

The QB can make up for a lot as well.  Tampa ranked 5th in PFF... with 4 of the same 5 from last year, they were 16th.  All they added was a rookie RT.  Maybe the Chiefs just need a better QB.  :dunno:

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