Debt Ceiling 2023

[RogerDodger 797]

I heard all the GOP wants to do is cut spending.  Cut cut cut.

[RLLD 4,143]

On 1/19/2023 at 2:28 PM, Voltaire said:

Janet Yellen is taking "extraordinary measures" which enables Republicans to engage in their version of virtue signaling for a few months and put off folding until ~June. Expect four months of strutting around like peacocks before they "get serious" and cave.

This is the most likely scenario

[Hardcore troubadour 14,913]

Joe Biden voted against raising the debt ceiling four times. And so did many other democrats. 

[RLLD 4,143]

I get why the WH says they will not negotiate the debt limit under threat, and I also get why the republicans think this is their only option.

The WH needs to compramise a little.

[posty 2,609]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

I get why the WH says they will not negotiate the debt limit under threat, and I also get why the republicans think this is their only option.

The WH needs to compramise a little.

Yeah like that will happen... The WH won't compromise...

[The Real timschochet 6,397]

Just now, RLLD said:

I get why the WH says they will not negotiate the debt limit under threat, and I also get why the republicans think this is their only option.

The WH needs to compramise a little.

They absolutely do. Biden’s position thus far is unacceptable. 
 

On the other hand, the specifics of what the Republicans are currently proposing is unreasonable. 

[The Real timschochet 6,397]

1 minute ago, posty said:

Yeah like that will happen... The WH won't compromise...

If they don’t it’s because they believe that the public will blame Republicans, and that because of this in the end the Republicans will cave. 
 

I think they’re right about the first part; the public will blame Republicans. But I have no idea if the second part is true and it’s a really big risk to be playing with economy. And the worst thing about this is that both sides are willing to take this to the brink for political gain. Both Biden and McCarthy will tell you it’s a matter of principle and they’re both full of sh!t. 

[RLLD 4,143]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

They absolutely do. Biden’s position thus far is unacceptable. 
 

On the other hand, the specifics of what the Republicans are currently proposing is unreasonable. 

Yep, both are starting from the right spot, coming in from a position where they canb moderate without giving up too much.  The problem will be the fringe of each party that resists ever giving in at all.

[The Real timschochet 6,397]

4 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Yep, both are starting from the right spot, coming in from a position where they canb moderate without giving up too much.  The problem will be the fringe of each party that resists ever giving in at all.

All true but- and I know you’ll disagree with me on this- at the moment the Republican fringe has far more power. 

[RLLD 4,143]

17 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

All true but- and I know you’ll disagree with me on this- at the moment the Republican fringe has far more power. 

I do disagree.   I think the WH has a strong position from which to manipulate this situation, and though i have many objections when it comes to Democrats one cannot deny they seem to be far more skilled in politics than their Republican counterparts.  I think this far they have handled the situation well and exactly as I would have forecasted.

They will continue to announce that they will not give an inch, keeping their base happy.  Eventually they will pretend to give a little, but they will give up nothing the Republicans actually want....and they know what they want, but Democrats will pointedly deny them.  The actual elements are irrelefant to  the political capital they are pursuing. The debt ceiling is just another lever to pull as it pertains to securing and/or keeping power. 

Its a game, and frankly the Democrats are just better at it. 

[MDC 7,118]

The fiscal hawks are back! Stunner.  

[Hardcore troubadour 14,913]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

They absolutely do. Biden’s position thus far is unacceptable. 
 

On the other hand, the specifics of what the Republicans are currently proposing is unreasonable. 

You’re funny. The other day you said Biden didn’t give the new green deal everything they wanted and that was good.  So I guess, I don’t know, they negotiated to get there? 

[The Real timschochet 6,397]

7 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You’re funny. The other day you said Biden didn’t give the new green deal everything they wanted and that was good.  So I guess, I don’t know, they negotiated to get there? 

Both are true. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,913]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Both are true. 

So why is Biden saying he won’t negotiate? Does he think he’ll talk the other side into it with his charm and wit? Come on man! 

[The Real timschochet 6,397]

The problem with the Democratic position is that they’re acting like the Republican argument shouldn’t exist; they should just agree to raise the debt ceiling with no input. But Republicans won the House in free and fair elections so they get to have input. And veto power. 
 

The problem with the Republican position is that they’re acting like they get to have an equal say or even more. They don’t. They have the House, but lost the Senate and the Presidency in free and fair elections. Therefore their input should be around 33%. 

[The Real timschochet 6,397]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So why is Biden saying he won’t negotiate? Does he think he’ll talk the other side into it with his charm and wit? Come on man! 

Because he’s being a jackass. But now he has agreed to a meeting. 

[Strike 5,184]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

The problem with the Democratic position is that they’re acting like the Republican argument shouldn’t exist; they should just agree to raise the debt ceiling with no input. But Republicans won the House in free and fair elections so they get to have input. And veto power. 
 

The problem with the Republican position is that they’re acting like they get to have an equal say or even more. They don’t. They have the House, but lost the Senate and the Presidency in free and fair elections. Therefore their input should be around 33%. 

Bullsh*t.  The Republicans have said all along they want to negotiate.  Biden has refused.  So they passed a bill.  What were they supposed to do, nothing? 

[RLLD 4,143]

4 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So why is Biden saying he won’t negotiate? Does he think he’ll talk the other side into it with his charm and wit? Come on man! 

That was a lie, it was always a lie.  If nothing else we should understand that nothing he says is the truth....nothing.  Of course he was going to meet and negotiate....

[Hardcore troubadour 14,913]

25 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The problem with the Democratic position is that they’re acting like the Republican argument shouldn’t exist; they should just agree to raise the debt ceiling with no input. But Republicans won the House in free and fair elections so they get to have input. And veto power. 
 

The problem with the Republican position is that they’re acting like they get to have an equal say or even more. They don’t. They have the House, but lost the Senate and the Presidency in free and fair elections. Therefore their input should be around 33%. 

Um, all spending originates in the house. The founders knew that was important, that the most direct line to the people control the purse strings.  You skip that class? 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,913]

23 minutes ago, RLLD said:

That was a lie, it was always a lie.  If nothing else we should understand that nothing he says is the truth....nothing.  Of course he was going to meet and negotiate....

He’s going to meet and get his ass handed to him, as well he should. And to you libtards that were all giddy when the democrats and a few rinos pushed through a massive spending bill in a lame duck congress, tough shite. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,913]

Once again the democrats are hiding behind lies like the VA will be cut. That’s because they need the money for their agenda and buddies.  It’s disgraceful.  

[GutterBoy 2,898]

If anyone wants the truth on this, it plays out like a GC thread

R- We vote for a 22% cut across the board

D- Oh, so you're gonna cut VA benefits by 22%?

R- Link?

D- You said everything gets cut 22%, VA benefits are included in everything, you're a liar

R- No you're the liar, I never explicitedly said VA benefits would get cut. Shut up groomer.

D- But they could get cut, right?

R- Your face could get cut too, what's your point?  We don't want to cut VA benefits.

D- Well then say you won't

R- Did you see what the animals did to the Target?  How about you disavow BLM?

D- WTF are you talking about?  You're retarded.

R- No you're retarded.  This all started because of a tranny on a can.

D- We wouldn't have put the tranny on the can if you didn't try to overthrow the govt.

[RLLD 4,143]

 

WOW.

Hey KJP.....I have one....if you take out a student loan.....you are expected to pay it back......

 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,913]

On 5/2/2023 at 1:43 PM, GutterBoy said:

If anyone wants the truth on this, it plays out like a GC thread

R- We vote for a 22% cut across the board

D- Oh, so you're gonna cut VA benefits by 22%?

R- Link?

D- You said everything gets cut 22%, VA benefits are included in everything, you're a liar

R- No you're the liar, I never explicitedly said VA benefits would get cut. Shut up groomer.

D- But they could get cut, right?

R- Your face could get cut too, what's your point?  We don't want to cut VA benefits.

D- Well then say you won't

R- Did you see what the animals did to the Target?  How about you disavow BLM?

D- WTF are you talking about?  You're retarded.

R- No you're retarded.  This all started because of a tranny on a can.

D- We wouldn't have put the tranny on the can if you didn't try to overthrow the govt.

VA benefits are aren’t getting cut. Not in the plan. You need to pay attention more. If you’re going to comment on current events, stay current. 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

10 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

VA benefits are aren’t getting cut. Not in the plan. You need to pay attention more. If you’re going to comment on current events, stay current. 

Proves my point 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,913]

5 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Proves my point 

That you don’t know what you’re taking about? I took a dump today too. Happens all the time. 

[dogcows 1,030]

Kevin McCarthy passed a bill to cut $30 billion of veterans’ benefits.

https://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/commentary/2023/04/24/proposed-gop-cuts-would-slash-30-billion-from-veterans-spending/

And if he doesn’t raise the debt ceiling, no military members will get paid, period. We could have homeless soldiers who are still on active duty, thanks to spineless Kevin.

Shame.

 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

21 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Kevin McCarthy passed a bill to cut $30 billion of veterans’ benefits.

https://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/commentary/2023/04/24/proposed-gop-cuts-would-slash-30-billion-from-veterans-spending/

And if he doesn’t raise the debt ceiling, no military members will get paid, period. We could have homeless soldiers who are still on active duty, thanks to spineless Kevin.

Shame.

 

Tardcore says this isn't happening 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,913]

1 minute ago, GutterBoy said:

Tardcore says this isn't happening 

And you do. Care to wager? 

[MDC 7,118]

Don’t do it GBoy. He’s a welcher.

[GutterBoy 2,898]

27 minutes ago, MDC said:

Don’t do it GBoy. He’s a welcher.

He paid me $25 when he lost the bet on my property taxes.

I don't even know what the wager is.  He makes no sense.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,913]

2 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

He paid me $25 when he lost the bet on my property taxes.

I don't even know what the wager is.  He makes no sense.

Name it.  

[GutterBoy 2,898]

5 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Name it.  

I bet that you're an ass hole.  Eleventy billion dollars.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,913]

15 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

I bet that you're an ass hole.  Eleventy billion dollars.

Well, you would win.  I have already cooped to that a few times. 

[The Real timschochet 6,397]

2 hours ago, dogcows said:

Kevin McCarthy passed a bill to cut $30 billion of veterans’ benefits.

https://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/commentary/2023/04/24/proposed-gop-cuts-would-slash-30-billion-from-veterans-spending/

And if he doesn’t raise the debt ceiling, no military members will get paid, period. We could have homeless soldiers who are still on active duty, thanks to spineless Kevin.

Shame.

 

The truth is it’s a dishonest article. That’s what @Hardcore troubadour is trying to point out. If you read the article it warns of “potential cuts”. But in reality there are no cuts. 

What the Republicans did is pass a bill calling for spending cuts but refusing to specify what those cuts are: that will be determined later in committee. This was cleverly done so that every time any accusation is made regarding cuts, conservatives like HC can deny it. And they can especially deny it in terms of the military because McCarthy has publicly promised that there will be no military cuts (though once again he can’t guarantee what the committees might do.) 

Of course the article goes on to correctly point out that if the debt ceiling is not raised in time, military will be among those who are not paid, along with Social Security and Medicare recipients. But Republicans will simply argue that the debt ceiling WILL be raised so long as Democrats agree to their plans. Hopefully the public will see through this ruse and put pressure on each side to compromise before it’s too late. 

[dogcows 1,030]

10 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The truth is it’s a dishonest article. That’s what @Hardcore troubadour is trying to point out. If you read the article it warns of “potential cuts”. But in reality there are no cuts. 

What the Republicans did is pass a bill calling for spending cuts but refusing to specify what those cuts are: that will be determined later in committee. This was cleverly done so that every time any accusation is made regarding cuts, conservatives like HC can deny it. And they can especially deny it in terms of the military because McCarthy has publicly promised that there will be no military cuts (though once again he can’t guarantee what the committees might do.) 

Of course the article goes on to correctly point out that if the debt ceiling is not raised in time, military will be among those who are not paid, along with Social Security and Medicare recipients. But Republicans will simply argue that the debt ceiling WILL be raised so long as Democrats agree to their plans. Hopefully the public will see through this ruse and put pressure on each side to compromise before it’s too late. 

No compromise. If the GOP gets a single penny of cuts from this, they will ransom the country for concessions every year. McCarthy is a coward and will back down.

The article is not dishonest. The bill sets funding for everything back to 2022 levels. Which was before the increases in vets benefits to help out burn pit victims. So really, the GOP doesn’t care about Iraq war vets. No surprise since it was the GOP that sent them there on false pretenses.

[RLLD 4,143]

11 minutes ago, dogcows said:

No compromise. If the GOP gets a single penny of cuts from this, they will ransom the country for concessions every year. McCarthy is a coward and will back down.

The article is not dishonest. The bill sets funding for everything back to 2022 levels. Which was before the increases in vets benefits to help out burn pit victims. So really, the GOP doesn’t care about Iraq war vets. No surprise since it was the GOP that sent them there on false pretenses.

Sure, no compromise. But...those Republicans better bend to the demands...right?  You honestly think that is how to do this?

[dogcows 1,030]

1 hour ago, RLLD said:

Sure, no compromise. But...those Republicans better bend to the demands...right?  You honestly think that is how to do this?

Yep. The 14th amendment says: 

Quote

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

The GOP didn’t learn their lesson from playing this game in 2011. Their approval went into the toilet afterwards, and didn’t recover quickly. The result - 2012 goes to Obama. They’re free to make the same mistake again, but a clean increase of the debt ceiling is the only thing Biden will accept (and he’s right to do so), so they’d better get on board or get creamed in the 2024 elections.

Funny how they didn’t care how much they ran up the debt under a Republican president. Under Trump, it went up $7.8 trillion in 4 years, and they supported his reckless tax cuts and wild spending without question.

[The Real timschochet 6,397]

19 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Yep. The 14th amendment says: 

The GOP didn’t learn their lesson from playing this game in 2011. Their approval went into the toilet afterwards, and didn’t recover quickly. The result - 2012 goes to Obama. They’re free to make the same mistake again, but a clean increase of the debt ceiling is the only thing Biden will accept (and he’s right to do so), so they’d better get on board or get creamed in the 2024 elections.

Funny how they didn’t care how much they ran up the debt under a Republican president. Under Trump, it went up $7.8 trillion in 4 years, and they supported his reckless tax cuts and wild spending without question.

I agree with your position in theory. But in the real world the Democrats need to compromise. Voters chose to give Republicans the majority in the House. Elections have consequences. We need to deal with it. 

[RLLD 4,143]

20 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Yep. The 14th amendment says: 

The GOP didn’t learn their lesson from playing this game in 2011. Their approval went into the toilet afterwards, and didn’t recover quickly. The result - 2012 goes to Obama. They’re free to make the same mistake again, but a clean increase of the debt ceiling is the only thing Biden will accept (and he’s right to do so), so they’d better get on board or get creamed in the 2024 elections.

Funny how they didn’t care how much they ran up the debt under a Republican president. Under Trump, it went up $7.8 trillion in 4 years, and they supported his reckless tax cuts and wild spending without question.

Well, I would expect compromise, and it to go both ways, like we did before government became an adult kindergarten. This nonsense of not giving an inch is not sustainable