Some conservatives want to ban no-fault divorce

[RLLD 3,706]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

A few years ago he was vehemently against marriage, for the reasons you just posted to gutter.  Then a funny thing happened:  I got cancer, and he watched his mom and dad fight through it together.  He realized that he wasn't going to be 25 forever, and that he wanted someone to be there for the bad times and the good, and that he wanted kids who would care like he did about me.  

He has really matured in that time, so much so that I sometimes forget and still think of him as the immature boy he recently was.   

That is a pretty cool story, thanks for sharing that!

[TheNewGirl 1,121]

2 hours ago, RLLD said:

This.   There is really no reason to bother with marriage given the way the world is stacked against males today.  If I were advising some young man, I would encourage him to consider alternatives. 

What are the alternatives? 

 

[TheNewGirl 1,121]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

I find this very sad.  I have a son with a serious girlfriend, and if he decides that she is the right one, I hope he proposes, she accepts, and they begin the wonderful process of building and sharing their lives together.

I view no-fault divorce like other freedoms such as abortion, and entitlements like welfare.  They are helpful and necessary in extreme situations, but in general we should avoid using them.  Unfortunately, we have lost the moral fabric of our society, in our ever-increasing move towards hedonism.  Just as people scam the system to get welfare, and have abortions for convenience, people will get divorce because they just aren't happy at the moment.   

This. 

It's just one of the reasons why no one wants to TRY anymore - at anything really. No one likes to feel discomfort; physical, mental, whatever. It's why we keep asking for debt to be forgiven, people don't want to challenge themselves and WORK harder. Addictions are at an all time high; alcohol, drugs (esp ones like heroin and fentanyl). We HATE discomfort and anhedonia, but as humans we are designed to seek comfort unfortunately. 

I see no-fault divorce the same, it can work and maybe needs to be there for some folks. But just using it as a, "Well, it was too hard." just seems like a cop out. 

If my husband approached me and wanted to leave  and I wanted to keep the marriage going, WHY would I want to stay with someone who didn't want me? If he fell out of love and we were forced to stay together, that just sounds miserable. 

[RLLD 3,706]

5 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

What are the alternatives? 

 

1) Do not get married at all, simply date.....
2) Form a relationship without marriage, but that would mirror marriage.
3) Only get married if there is a prenuptual where the woman cannot steal half your money nor impede your access to your children.

 

[TheNewGirl 1,121]

21 minutes ago, RLLD said:

1) Do not get married at all, simply date.....
2) Form a relationship without marriage, but that would mirror marriage.
3) Only get married if there is a prenuptual where the woman cannot steal half your money nor impede your access to your children.

 

The issue with these is if/when children are introduced.

You're making a LOT of this sound like it's the fault of the woman that make the marriage miserable or unneeded. 

Men don't also "steal" half when a divorce comes about? Or impede access to children? 

 

[IGotWorms 3,660]

37 minutes ago, RLLD said:

1) Do not get married at all, simply date.....
2) Form a relationship without marriage, but that would mirror marriage.
3) Only get married if there is a prenuptual where the woman cannot steal half your money nor impede your access to your children.

 

#3 could not be done in most states 

[RLLD 3,706]

8 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

The issue with these is if/when children are introduced.

You're making a LOT of this sound like it's the fault of the woman that make the marriage miserable or unneeded. 

Men don't also "steal" half when a divorce comes about? Or impede access to children? 

 

Perhaps. I am friends with people who are "together" but not married, and they have kids. So I think it is plausible.

It has been true, historically, that divorce was intiated disproportionately by women, and then you have men being extorted by the process....so yeah.... I place some culpability on women, and I think men need to recognize the way the system is stacked against them.....and until the system is made more fair, they should resist exposing themselves.

I am sure there are potentially men out there who are just as abusive of the situation as women, but that is not the norm.

[RLLD 3,706]

3 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

#3 could not be done in most states 

  

[TheNewGirl 1,121]

5 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Perhaps. I am friends with people who are "together" but not married, and they have kids. So I think it is plausible.

It has been true, historically, that divorce was intiated disproportionately by women, and then you have men being extorted by the process....so yeah.... I place some culpability on women, and I think men need to recognize the way the system is stacked against them.....and until the system is made more fair, they should resist exposing themselves.

I am sure there are potentially men out there who are just as abusive of the situation as women, but that is not the norm.

How is the system stacked against men? 

Men are being extorted because the woman stayed home for 15 years and raised the kids? She shouldn't get anything at all? 

What would make the system "more fair?" 

Friends who are "together" with children - what happens when one wants out? She should get nothing because you know, they weren't "really married?" 

[RLLD 3,706]

8 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

How is the system stacked against men? 

Men are being extorted because the woman stayed home for 15 years and raised the kids? She shouldn't get anything at all? 

What would make the system "more fair?" 

Friends who are "together" with children - what happens when one wants out? She should get nothing because you know, they weren't "really married?" 

Men will be impacted disproportionately by the financial outcomes in a negative manner.  If the woman wants a divorce, fine....so be it.....but since you have decided you refuse to stay in the relationship....you get nothing.... 

If its a mutual split, I think 50/50 seems mostly fair.  Since the majority of homes are two-income homes, your strawman need not be introfuced.

If she bails on the relationship, she gets nothing, fine by me....if the man bails....he gets nothing....

[TBayXXXVII 2,251]

3 hours ago, Engorgeous George said:

My wife brought debt and a lithe body to our marriage.  She worked in the home.  I brought property, money and advanced degrees with ongoing earning potential. If we liguidated everything we own we would be worth right around 6 million dollars.  if she divorced me she would get half.  She came in with around 50 thousand in debt.  i cam in with around 2 million in hard assets.  She would exit with 3 million or plus $3, 050,000.00 while I would exit plus $1,000, 000.00.

 

In reality I would probably give her the house and then one half of the remaining assets.  Also Any residue of my estate upon my death would go to my offspring, her/our kids.  Financially marriage has been a good deal for her and a poor one for me.  Of course I did not enter into it for financial reasons.  She was and remains unusually lithe.

That's a logical take, but only because you still love/care about her.  The vast majority of people getting divorced hate each other.  Logic won't be the driving force, emotion will.  Also, in those cases, one will feel wronged by the other and will want more... or want the other to get less.

[TheNewGirl 1,121]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

That's a logical take, but only because you still love/care about her.  The vast majority of people getting divorced hate each other.  Logic won't be the driving force, emotion will.  Also, in those cases, one will feel wronged by the other and will want more... or want the other to get less.

This. 

My BFF is going though this right now. 

At first the ex husband was fairly decent; but his anger is now up to an 11. She married a textbook narcissist and tried for over 20 years to make it work, raised the kids when he told her to "just stay home and raise them." He filed his case for divorce claiming that SHE needed to pay him spousal support. It's just a mess and he's definitely not functioning on logic, it's all anger. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,251]

I'll note that if my way (the right way), happened to be the way things ran.... this isn't an issue.

 

If marriage were taken out of the governments pervue, and seen as a legal contracts between 2 adults (note, this absolves minors being able to get married... virtue signalling libby's should be happy to hear that), then it also acts as a prenuptial agreement as well, where the dissolution of marriage will be in the contract.  If there's an objection to that agreement, you go to court to prove your case.  At this point, fault would need to be proven.  Hence, in an amicable divorce, the split is easy and spelled out.  Where one wants out, they can still get out, again, the split is spelled out.  Only the cases where one is wronged, would go to court... and prove your case.  No need for government intervention.

[nobody 2,195]

I think the most fair is in a divorce, the couple splits the family assets only gained during the marriage equally.

So in the case like the one where the guy said she brought $50k in debt and he brought $1M in assets and they're now worth $6M, he should get his million back, and then you split the remaining $5M.  Then you take the $50k debt off of her side and add it to his.

Even this isn't all that fair to the guy since a lot of that $5M is no doubt built off of the $1M brought in to the marriage, but how do you know how much of that growth is because she was so awesome and supportive?

[iam90sbaby 2,235]

4 hours ago, Ron_Artest said:

 

Man some of you guys are just so ##### miserable with yourselves.  Jesus.

Have a relationship you don't need the government to validate it with a document, thats for the birds.

[iam90sbaby 2,235]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Pretty sexist isn’t it? What if the woman is the breadwinner? 

No, just a fact. Even Kanye has to pay Kim alimony. 

[iam90sbaby 2,235]

4 hours ago, RLLD said:

This.   There is really no reason to bother with marriage given the way the world is stacked against males today.  If I were advising some young man, I would encourage him to consider alternatives. 

Not to mention more than half of these hoes don't want a marriage, they just want a wedding.

[iam90sbaby 2,235]

2 hours ago, TheNewGirl said:

What are the alternatives? 

 

Just do everything exactly the same without a relationship contract?

[iam90sbaby 2,235]

1 hour ago, TheNewGirl said:

The issue with these is if/when children are introduced.

You're making a LOT of this sound like it's the fault of the woman that make the marriage miserable or unneeded. 

Men don't also "steal" half when a divorce comes about? Or impede access to children? 

 

Women initiate 75% of divorces.

[TheNewGirl 1,121]

Just now, iam90sbaby said:

Women initiate 75% of divorces.

Why do you think that is? 

[iam90sbaby 2,235]

Just now, TheNewGirl said:

Why do you think that is? 

Less and less traditional women, society tells women it's cool to be a hoe and women are just naturally more opportunistic with their partners (if it gives them more social status, money, etc ..)

[jerryskids 5,593]

I see my post has had a significant impact, as we've now moved to the "how can we make it even easier to leave your life partner if you are having a bad day" phase of the discussion.   

[iam90sbaby 2,235]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I see my post has had a significant impact, as we've now moved to the "how can we make it even easier to leave your life partner if you are having a bad day" phase of the discussion.   

Unless you taught him how to get a prenup you didn't set him up right 

[TheNewGirl 1,121]

3 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

Less and less traditional women, society tells women it's cool to be a hoe and women are just naturally more opportunistic with their partners (if it gives them more social status, money, etc ..)

I don't think that's it. Maybe a small subset, but not really the reason why women file more often than men. 

Many women feel like they'd be "better off alone" and not in any kind of relationship at all, not hoeing around or whatever. 

 

Now, do you really think it's about what society is telling them, or is that just what you see on social media? I've seen PLENTY of these kinds of women (usually younger with at least one child already) looking for a man you makes 6 figures, will support them in their child rearing, not require them to work, etc. But I don't think that this is "normal" society. 

What do you really think is the reason why women want out more than men? 

[TheNewGirl 1,121]

4 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I see my post has had a significant impact, as we've now moved to the "how can we make it even easier to leave your life partner if you are having a bad day" phase of the discussion.   

No, I think we've moved on to the "why bother because all women are gold digging hoes" part of the divorce discussions, and she's just going to take half of my shiiite anyways. 

[RLLD 3,706]

4 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

What do you really think is the reason why women want out more than men? 

Put simply, the consequences of leaving the marriage are too high. This is by design.  The goal was to help women, who for hundreds of year were treated like property. I think the goal to end the mistreatment was a resounding success.  But as with anything pushed on people, there are unintended consequences.

Women were fine to end marriages.  They could extract much from their spouse......men were less inclined, and would stick it out....rather than allow the courts to fock them over.

[Hardcore troubadour 13,327]

4 hours ago, Ron_Artest said:

Let me finish having sex with this tranny then I'll climb down from the ladder and shill for Disney for you.

Checks out.  See you in a bit over there.  

[jerryskids 5,593]

8 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

Unless you taught him how to get a prenup you didn't set him up right 

He knows how to get a prenup.  I'm not a fan of them for first marriages, although I understand the need for prenups for future marriages, if there are kids involved from the first.

FWIW, he makes more than his current GF, but not crazy more, maybe 30-40%.  They are both in tech jobs, but his area pays more.

[iam90sbaby 2,235]

13 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

I don't think that's it. Maybe a small subset, but not really the reason why women file more often than men. 

Many women feel like they'd be "better off alone" and not in any kind of relationship at all, not hoeing around or whatever. 

 

Now, do you really think it's about what society is telling them, or is that just what you see on social media? I've seen PLENTY of these kinds of women (usually younger with at least one child already) looking for a man you makes 6 figures, will support them in their child rearing, not require them to work, etc. But I don't think that this is "normal" society. 

What do you really think is the reason why women want out more than men? 

I do think the media has conditioned women and made them more openly sexual than any previous generation and it's more and more common for women to have 10+ partners. Of course that has an effect on divorce rates.

Ultimately marriage is traditional and there are less and less traditional women.

Also, it isn't half your sh!t if he makes more money than you and he probably does.

[iam90sbaby 2,235]

4 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

He knows how to get a prenup.  I'm not a fan of them for first marriages, although I understand the need for prenups for future marriages, if there are kids involved from the first.

FWIW, he makes more than his current GF, but not crazy more, maybe 30-40%.  They are both in tech jobs, but his area pays more.

You don't gotta be a fan, but women initiate 75% of divorces and he should protect himself.

Stay safe out there fellas.

[jerryskids 5,593]

11 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

 

What do you really think is the reason why women want out more than men? 

I think that once the kids are grown, women get much less out of marriages on average than men.  Remarriage statistics bear this out for widowed people:

Quote

By 25 months after the spouse's death 61% of men and 19% of women were either remarried or involved in a new romance. Women expressed more negative feelings about forming new romantic relationships.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8807029/

 

[jerryskids 5,593]

2 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

You don't gotta be a fan, but women initiate 75% of divorces and he should protect himself.

Stay safe out there fellas.

To me, a prenup (other than the exception I mentioned) is basically saying, "I'm betting that we're going to fock this marriage up and get divorced."  I don't think that is consistent with my stated belief that you should find a person who shares your desire for a lifelong union.  

[iam90sbaby 2,235]

6 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

To me, a prenup (other than the exception I mentioned) is basically saying, "I'm betting that we're going to fock this marriage up and get divorced."  I don't think that is consistent with my stated belief that you should find a person who shares your desire for a lifelong union.  

Do you wear a seatbelt? Have insurance? Wear a helmet?

[jerryskids 5,593]

3 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

Do you wear a seatbelt? Have insurance? Wear a helmet?

Yes, but those aren't the same.  Those insure against accidents and malicious intent from others.

If I wear a seatbelt because I fear my wife may drive the car into a wall to kill me if I don't, then your analogy works.   

[iam90sbaby 2,235]

Just now, jerryskids said:

Yes, but those aren't the same.  Those insure against accidents and malicious intent from others.

If I wear a seatbelt because I fear my wife may drive the car into a wall to kill me if I don't, then your analogy works.   

If a woman has a problem with a prenup there's a reason for that. It shouldn't matter anyways, since she really loves him and all lol

[TheNewGirl 1,121]

9 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

I do think the media has conditioned women and made them more openly sexual than any previous generation and it's more and more common for women to have 10+ partners. Of course that has an effect on divorce rates.

Ultimately marriage is traditional and there are less and less traditional women.

Also, it isn't half your sh!t if he makes more money than you and he probably does.

There's an actual study that shows that heterosexual women are the LEAST sexually satisfied in comparison to homosexual men and homosexual women relationships. 

So, being more promiscuous has little to do with divorce rates, unless that's a driver for the woman, and in general it's not. 

 

The bolded isn't true if you built a life together. 

18 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Put simply, the consequences of leaving the marriage are too high. This is by design.  The goal was to help women, who for hundreds of year were treated like property. I think the goal to end the mistreatment was a resounding success.  But as with anything pushed on people, there are unintended consequences.

Women were fine to end marriages.  They could extract much from their spouse......men were less inclined, and would stick it out....rather than allow the courts to fock them over.

You're speaking historically.

Why do women leave marriages NOW?  

[iam90sbaby 2,235]

8 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

There's an actual study that shows that heterosexual women are the LEAST sexually satisfied in comparison to homosexual men and homosexual women relationships. 

So, being more promiscuous has little to do with divorce rates, unless that's a driver for the woman, and in general it's not. 

 

The bolded isn't true if you built a life together. 

You're speaking historically.

Why do women leave marriages NOW?  

Link to the study? I don't think that study is true but if it was one could argue that that does infact prove that homosexuality is a sexual perversion.

There's no shame anymore. You got a divorce back in the day the entire town looked at you funny and you were broken goods. No one cares anymore. Had over 30 sexual partners? Yassss queen! You divorced him and he pays alimony? You go girl!!! You make 30k a month on OnlyFans? Dang girl I wish I could do that!!!! 

You gas each other up and there's no shame in it anymore, as a generality you are even proud of it.

 

Also "built a life together?" what does that mean? You both worked, but he made more so you're entitled to his income? The fock? Lol

[RLLD 3,706]

5 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

You're speaking historically.

Why do women leave marriages NOW?  

The situation has mediated, its less true today than it has been historically.   I doubt anyone could answer why with any reasonable certainty.  But one important issue might be that to attempt to go it alone in the horrific damage done to the ecnonomy by Biden is just too stark a proposal.   

[jerryskids 5,593]

5 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

 

Also "built a life together?" what does that mean? You both worked, but he made more so you're entitled to his income? The fock? Lol

How old are you?  I know you are young, but clearly you have very little idea of how a healthy relationship works.  You seem to think it is two people sharing a place, both working their own jobs, splitting up the expenses, and occasionally focking?

[iam90sbaby 2,235]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

How old are you?  I know you are young, but clearly you have very little idea of how a healthy relationship works.  You seem to think it is two people sharing a place, both working their own jobs, splitting up the expenses, and occasionally focking?

She said it in a way that made it sound like she somehow improved his financial situation. I don't need to someone to build a life with. A wife is to have a family and have kids. I want to know why she thinks that entitles her to half of someone's stuff.