***OFFICIAL Buccaneers @ Lions Divisional Round Thread***

[seafoam1 3,023]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

 

Baker Mayfield is a below average to mediocre starting QB in the NFL.  If you're playing against a good team, and you have Baker Mayfield, 8 times out of 10, you're going to lose. 

 

Sure.

[seafoam1 3,023]

46 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

 

lol, no. A nice little story this year, sure, but not your cornerstone going forward 

 

This is closer to the truth 

Sure. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

9 hours ago, Reality said:

TB had no business being in that game, the only reason you made it that far in the post season was because of Baker.

Go ahead and get rid of him now, you will go back to being a bottom dwelling franchise with no direction.

Oh stop.  You're sounding just like Buccaneer homers that are tiresome.  LOL.

Baker Mayfield is a great dude.  I love everything about him, until he says hike.  After that... meh.  Here's the thing about Mayfield and the season Tampa had.  The narrative is that Mayfield had a career year, it's wrong (because it's not his best passer rating/QBR/TD%/Int%/ypa season... just yards and TD's - yippy), but let's pretend it is.  In a career year with the 7th best defense in the NFL, one of the best WR tandem's in the NFL, the easiest division in football, AND the leagues 25th easiest schedule, the Bucs ranked 20th in offense and won only 9 games.  Let's also consider the fact that he had 5 years of film on him and a grand total of zero out of 32 teams, offered him a starting job.  ZERO.  From a financial perspective, the best offer he got was something like $8 to 10M to be a backup... but he took the $4M from Tampa, because they said, "we'll give you an open chance to compete for the job".  Here's the kicker.  There never was a competition.  He had a good first half against a bunch of carpenters and electricians and they gave him the job over a 2nd round bust.

Now, let's pretend Tampa isn't stupid, and we're looking at this from the outside.  Looking at what I just said... he played with a top 10 defense, had a career year, played with one of the best WR tandems in the NFL, the weakest division in the league, and the 25th easiest schedule... and he won 9 games... what deal does a team offer a guy like that in the offseason?  Let's also take into account a couple of other little tidbits.  With 2:00 to go in the game, down by 8, in the playoffs... 2nd pass attempt, throws a ball right to the defender for a pick, to lose the game (not saying he lost the game, but the optics aren't good).  Another one... in the last game of the season, against the worst team in the NFL (also 29th in points against), his offense generated 9 points.  That's right, NINE!  This was a "must-win" game, to win the division and make the playoffs.  One last one.  In the second to last game of the season... a game where they win, the win the division, the Bucs score 0, that's right, ZERO points in the first 3 quarters (home game no less), and were trailing 20-0 heading into the 4th quarter, he was 13-22 for 108 yards and 2 Int's.

How does THAT, look to you, and what deal do you offer that guy?  Then, tell me what team has better WR's than Evans and Godwin, a better pass blocking offensive line, and a better defense, that Mayfield puts you over the top to where you can justify that deal.

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

10 hours ago, seafoam1 said:

Sure.

Then you go convince the Bears to sign him because he had a better season than Fields.

[seafoam1 3,023]

15 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Then you go convince the Bears to sign him because he had a better season than Fields.

He would have been better.for thd Bears. I admit that.

[seafoam1 3,023]

11 hours ago, Reality said:

TB had no business being in that game, the only reason you made it that far in the post season was because of Baker.

Go ahead and get rid of him now, you will go back to being a bottom dwelling franchise with no direction.

Absolutely. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

Just now, seafoam1 said:

He would have been better.for thd Bears. I admut that.

Work out a deal with Tampa, pre-FA, and trade for Mayfield.  Then, with the #1 pick, you can draft Harrison.  You won't have to keep Fields or even pick up his 5th year option.  Everyone wins on that front.  Let's see if that's what happens.  Willing to put a 0% chance on it.

[seafoam1 3,023]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Work out a deal with Tampa, pre-FA, and trade for Mayfield.  Then, with the #1 pick, you can draft Harrison.  You won't have to keep Fields or even pick up his 5th year option.  Everyone wins on that front.  Let's see if that's what happens.  Willing to put a 0% chance on it.

I have no idea what the Bears will do with Fields and the #1 pick. If the Bears keep Fields, they could trade that pick to New England  I bet and get their #1 next year. And maybe trade back again. Fock if I know what they do. Poles doesn't tip his hand until he's ready. 

They just hired that Seattle dude as their new OC. Waldron. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

3 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

I have no idea what the Bears will do with Fields and the #1 pick. If the Bears keep Fields, they could trade that pick to New England  I bet and get their #1 next year. And maybe trade back again. Fock if I know what they do. Poles doesn't tip his hand until he's ready. 

They just hired that Seattle dude as their new OC. Waldron. 

I'm not sure what they're going to do either, but one thing I will bet my entire years' salary on, is that their plans will NOT include Baker Mayfield.

[seafoam1 3,023]

Just now, TBayXXXVII said:

I'm not sure what they're going to do either, but one thing I will bet my entire years' salary on, is that their plans will NOT include Baker Mayfield.

Nope. That's why I never suggested it. 

[cmh6476 1,025]

I'm with tbay... you need a better qb than Baker if you want to win a chip.  Also goes to show you tb isn't that far away after winning it just a few years ago...

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

30 minutes ago, cmh6476 said:

I'm with tbay... you need a better qb than Baker if you want to win a chip.  Also goes to show you tb isn't that far away after winning it just a few years ago...

This was my point in other posts, even on the fantasy side.  Tampa has a good team, they have quality players on both sides of the ball.  Yes, they need to improve the middle of the OLine, but the rest of the team is pretty strong... but Mayfield isn't going to be enough to make the team a contender, only a pretender.

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

53 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Nope. That's why I never suggested it. 

... and no one will.  When I say "no one", I mean NONE of the 31 other teams in the league.  Tampa should be #32, but something tells me they're not going to do it.

[seafoam1 3,023]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

... and no one will.  When I say "no one", I mean NONE of the 31 other teams in the league.  Tampa should be #32, but something tells me they're not going to do it.

Other than maybe Tampa, you think Mayfield won't have a job next year?

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

24 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Other than maybe Tampa, you think Mayfield won't have a job next year?

Tampa should have ZERO interest in him for next year.

He absolutely should have a job next year, but as a backup... not a starter.  The only teams who should consider Mayfield as a starter are teams like Washington (who are rebuilding and don't want get their franchise QB to get killed his rookie season), the Raider, who need to start the rebuilding process but want to be a competent team and spend $10M on a stop gap.  Teams that have a chance to contend, should NOT throw $30M at him to be their starter.

[edjr 6,586]

Lions have let up over 800+ yards against the Rams and Bucs. Not good. 

[Reality 3,121]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Tampa should have ZERO interest in him for next year.

He absolutely should have a job next year, but as a backup... not a starter.  The only teams who should consider Mayfield as a starter are teams like Washington (who are rebuilding and don't want get their franchise QB to get killed his rookie season), the Raider, who need to start the rebuilding process but want to be a competent team and spend $10M on a stop gap.  Teams that have a chance to contend, should NOT throw $30M at him to be their starter.

He's easily better than a 3rd of the starters in the league. None of this matters, he'll be back and starting for TB next year. 

You may want to go ahead and accept that now.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,429]

Baker reminds me of Kerry Collins. Like Collins could, he can get hot. But at some point they will revert back to making mistakes. 

[edjr 6,586]

6 minutes ago, Reality said:

He's easily better than a 3rd of the starters in the league. None of this matters, he'll be back and starting for TB next year. 

You may want to go ahead and accept that now.

Mac Jones might be available

[Reality 3,121]

Just now, edjr said:

Mac Jones might be available

High school coach.

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

1 hour ago, Reality said:

He's easily better than a 3rd of the starters in the league. None of this matters, he'll be back and starting for TB next year. 

You may want to go ahead and accept that now.

LOL, yeah, I said that... he's a below average starter!  

I have resigned myself to that fact already, so you're telling me anything new.  I don't expect the Bucs to do the right thing.  I do expect them to have a losing season next year.

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

34 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Baker reminds me of Kerry Collins. Like Collins could, he can get hot. But at some point they will revert back to making mistakes. 

EXACTLY!  You don't give a guy like that, an extension.  You shake his hand after the season and say "Thanks for all your help, I hope you get a chance to start somewhere else next year".  But sadly, they're going to give him a deal and we're going to suck next year and lord knows what the fallout will be after that.

[seafoam1 3,023]

38 minutes ago, Reality said:

He's easily better than a 3rd of the starters in the league. None of this matters, he'll be back and starting for TB next year. 

You may want to go ahead and accept that now.

He'll probably carry them to the playoffs again if they resign Evans. 

[IGotWorms 4,058]

48 minutes ago, Reality said:

He's easily better than a 3rd of the starters in the league. None of this matters, he'll be back and starting for TB next year. 

You may want to go ahead and accept that now.

Better than 1/3rd of starters still puts him around the 21st best starting QB in the league. Not good enough 

[Reality 3,121]

18 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Better than 1/3rd of starters still puts him around the 21st best starting QB in the league. Not good enough 

So, who do you get? They don't have a high draft pick, which also only works out a 3rd of the time. Top QB's aren't available.

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

26 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

He'll probably carry them to the playoffs again if they resign Evans. 

Did you see their opponents next year?  They're not going to the playoffs.  This year, they played 4 good teams... went 0-4 and only won 9 games.  Next year they get Philly, Dallas, Detroit, San Fran, KC, Chargers, and Baltimore.  I expect the Saints to improve their WR corp and the Falcons to get a QB that doesn't suck.  If that happens, they're not winning 9 games nor winning the division... hence, not making the playoffs.

[seafoam1 3,023]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Did you see their opponents next year?  They're not going to the playoffs.  This year, they played 4 good teams... went 0-4 and only won 9 games.  Next year they get Philly, Dallas, Detroit, San Fran, KC, Chargers, and Baltimore.  I expect the Saints to improve their WR corp and the Falcons to get a QB that doesn't suck.  If that happens, they're not winning 9 games nor winning the division... hence, not making the playoffs.

Yeah, it's rough when you got a shltty team that a QB, an RB, and 2 WRs have to carry. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

Just now, Reality said:

So, who do you get? They don't have a high draft pick, which also only works out a 3rd of the time. Top QB's aren't available.

In 2017, the Chiefs traded up from #27 to #10 to get a QB.. it cost them pick #91 that year and pick #22 the following year.  Tampa has pick #26 this year.  KC also extended their QB for 1 year that year.  Are you telling me that Tampa can't do the same thing?  I asked a question earlier that you dodged.  How much would you offer Mayfield?  If Tampa gave him a 1 yr/$18M deal and traded up to get a QB, I'd be ok with that.  I think both you and the Bucs are thinking that Mayfield is going to get a 3 year $90M+ deal.

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

2 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Yeah, it's rough when you got a shltty team that a QB, an RB, and 2 WRs have to carry. 

7th best defense too, at 19.1 ppg.

[seafoam1 3,023]

8 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

7th best defense too, at 19.1 ppg.

They did get better. 

[listen2me 23 1,873]

37 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Better than 1/3rd of starters still puts him around the 21st best starting QB in the league. Not good enough 

Agree.  Baker played well this year.   Geno Smith also played good last season and rhey gave him 3 for 75.  This year with anorher WR added in the 1st he regressed.  

Is Baker a starting QB?  Yes.  Would I settle on him because he had  a nice year?  No.  

What if Evans leaves?  

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

8 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

They did get better. 

[seafoam1 3,023]

Just now, TBayXXXVII said:

For you to say Mayfield didn't help the Bucs  tons in getting them into the playoffs is simply an emotional take. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

4 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

For you to say Mayfield didn't help the Bucs  tons in getting them into the playoffs is simply an emotional take. 

He's the reason they only won 9 games... not more.  Tampa has a good roster.  If they had a "good", not even great, but just... "good" QB, they win 11+ games.  Mayfield brought them down.  A top 10 defense, Evans, Godwin, White, a top 10 pass blocking OLine and 13 teams that are average to below average on their schedule, and they won 9 games.  It's not emotional at all.  It's 100% logical.  If I was being emotional, I'd be calling for a 5 yr+ $40M+ AAV extension for our new franchise QB.

[Reality 3,121]

28 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

In 2017, the Chiefs traded up from #27 to #10 to get a QB.. it cost them pick #91 that year and pick #22 the following year.  Tampa has pick #26 this year.  KC also extended their QB for 1 year that year.  Are you telling me that Tampa can't do the same thing?  I asked a question earlier that you dodged.  How much would you offer Mayfield?  If Tampa gave him a 1 yr/$18M deal and traded up to get a QB, I'd be ok with that.  I think both you and the Bucs are thinking that Mayfield is going to get a 3 year $90M+ deal.

 

Not even sure why you are discussing KC, Mahomes is a once in a generation QB. Spoiler alert, no matter what you do, you're not getting a Mahomes.

You have to work with what you have, he's a full on free agent, a 1 year deal isn't going to work, he's going to have options.

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

1 hour ago, Reality said:

Not even sure why you are discussing KC, Mahomes is a once in a generation QB. Spoiler alert, no matter what you do, you're not getting a Mahomes.

You have to work with what you have, he's a full on free agent, a 1 year deal isn't going to work, he's going to have options.

The guy they take doesn't have to be Mahomes... the point is that being at #26 doesn't mean you can't trade up and find a franchise QB.  Lamar Jackson was taken at #22.  If the Bucs give Mayfield an extension and draft his replacement, that doesn't look good, just like it didn't after the Eagles gave Wentz an extension and draft Hurts in the 2nd round just 8 months later.  That means, the Bucs are likely to  give Mayfield a 3-year deal and won't draft a QB at all this year.  That's how you take a good team and make them worse, it's by giving bad QB's good QB money.  GM's and/or coach's lose jobs that way.

 

The funny thing is, the Bucs traded the #7 overall pick in 2018 to Buffalo.  Guess where that head coach is... who took Winston in 2015 and said "No, we don't need Josh Allen, we have Jameis Winston"?

[seafoam1 3,023]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

The guy they take doesn't have to be Mahomes... the point is that being at #26 doesn't mean you can't trade up and find a franchise QB.  If the Bucs give Mayfield an extension and draft his replacement, that doesn't look good, just like it didn't after the Eagles gave Wentz an extension and draft Hurts in the 2nd round just 8 months later.  That means, the Bucs are likely to  give Mayfield a 3-year deal and won't draft a QB at all this year.  That's how you take a good team and make them worse, it's by giving bad QB's good QB money.  GM's and/or coach's lose jobs that way.

Mayfield is not Wentz at this stage. Mayfield has progressed. Wentz shlt the bed on his career. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

Just now, seafoam1 said:

Mayfield is not Wentz at this stage. Mayfield has progressed. Wentz shlt the bed on his career. 

Wentz almost won an MVP award.  Who are you kidding?

[seafoam1 3,023]

3 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Wentz almost won an MVP award.  Who are you kidding?

Yeah. I'm aware. Then he shlt the bed on his career. Who are you kidding?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,429]

3 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Mayfield is not Wentz at this stage. Mayfield has progressed. Wentz shlt the bed on his career. 

Lay off Wentz. His wife had a baby during the season in Philadelphia. A big Eagles “fan” around these parts said that’s one of the reasons he struggled.