Another Win Against DEI

[RLLD 3,588]

Just now, kilroy69 said:

I have  witnessed it with my own two eyes. I have literally had a female hiring manager look at me  and say "we are looking for people who do not look...like you. And then she used her finger to circle her face to make it a point of emphasis what she was talking about. I have been a recruiter for over 10 years now and believe me when I say this 100 percent happens..all the time. If you CHOOSE not to believe this go ahead. This is how DEI works in the real world. 

I think the anectodal evidence also only works one way......that sort of "proof" can only be used to prove that racism is a problem, not that it isnt....

But your point is solid....DEI is a derivative of Critical Race theory....which is also racism revised.

All of this...DEI...Critical Race Theory....all the bluster about white nationalism etc.... its all simply revenge for something other people did long ago....and for which we-today are somehow expected to pay for.....

[MDC 6,013]

8 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

I have  witnessed it with my own two eyes. I have literally had a female hiring manager look at me  and say "we are looking for people who do not look...like you. And then she used her finger to circle her face to make it a point of emphasis what she was talking about. I have been a recruiter for over 10 years now and believe me when I say this 100 percent happens..all the time. It may not be as blatant as my example but it is there. Always.  If you CHOOSE not to believe this go ahead. Weather you believe or not. This is how DEI works in the real world  

I work for a pretty big company that has a DEI policy and leadership here is almost entirely white men. Maybe your company works differently but I don’t think that’s true of DEI in general. 

[GutterBoy 2,539]

34 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

He is saying:  why should my 7 yr old son be held accountable for the past dominance of white males?

How is a 7 year old being held accountable?  It makes no sense.  A 7 year old's job is to go to school.  Can you explain it?

[kilroy69 1,039]

8 minutes ago, MDC said:

I work for a pretty big company that has a DEI policy and leadership here is almost entirely white men. Maybe your company works differently but I don’t think that’s true of DEI in general. 

No. YOUR company works differently. Look up DEI on Linkedin and go to people.(in the first 3 pages of people you can find 1 that is a straight white male) What you will see are VERY few white men in the DEI space. Your company is absolutely the outlier here and coming from someone who has done rpo work for multiple large companies that are very well known I assure you that what I am telling you IS how DEI works.  If you do not believe me try talking to a recruiter from another company other than yours. See what they have to say. I am 100 percent confident that this is standard practice based on the companies I have worked at.  

[jerryskids 5,461]

2 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

How is a 7 year old being held accountable?  It makes no sense.  A 7 year old's job is to go to school.  Can you explain it?

His 7 yr old will grow up in a DEI world where he will face discrimination for being a white male.  I don't think he was specifically talking about 2nd grade recess.

[MDC 6,013]

1 minute ago, kilroy69 said:

No. YOUR company works differently. Look up DEI on Linkedin and go to people. What you will see are VERY few white men in the DEI space. Your company is absolutely the outlier here and coming from someone who has done rpo work for multiple large companies that are very well known I assure you that what I am telling you IS how DEI works. 

Most companies have some type of DEI policy and officer. I highly doubt most companies aren’t hiring qualified white dudes even if their DEI officers are women/minorities. In 35+ years in corporate America for a wide variety of companies I’ve never worked for one that had an unusual amount of women or minorities in leadership or in general. 

[kilroy69 1,039]

7 minutes ago, MDC said:

Most companies have some type of DEI policy and officer. I highly doubt most companies aren’t hiring qualified white dudes even if their DEI officers are women/minorities. In 35+ years in corporate America for a wide variety of companies I’ve never worked for one that had an unusual amount of women or minorities in leadership or in general. 

We have had vastly different experiences then. Mine has been almost exclusively in the tech space and in that space and what I am describing has been at every single one. Extremely liberal. Focused on DEI but ONLY dei that cuts out the white male. I am seeing this internally from a recruiters point of view.   

[GutterBoy 2,539]

6 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

His 7 yr old will grow up in a DEI world where he will face discrimination for being a white male.  I don't think he was specifically talking about 2nd grade recess.

He shouldn't face discrimination, just like 7 year old black kids shouldn't face discrimination, but we all do to some degree.  The world is not perfect, DEI initiatives are not perfect.  Doesn't mean we should stop trying and continue with the way things have always been done, because for the marginalized in society it hasn't been great for them.  I'm sure white people felt the same way when they had to share schools or bathrooms.

[jerryskids 5,461]

38 minutes ago, MDC said:

Probably a stupid question for the GC, but what are these DEI departments doing that we don’t like? 

One example is that some colleges require professors applying for positions to provide "DEI Statements" as part of their application.  Basically, the professors have to weave a story of how they've helped intersectional people in their careers, or else no job.  Thankfully, MIT recently stopped this inane practice.

Quote

MIT stops using DEI statements in faculty hiring

Other universities should follow suit.

Hats off to Massachusetts Institute of Technology President Sally Kornbluth for taking an important step to protect intellectual diversity at MIT despite the school’s spotty track record on free speech. 

The university will no longer require diversity, equity, and inclusion statements from faculty — allowing candidates to teach and research without needing to pass an ideological litmus test just to get their foot in the door. Other university leaders should follow suit to avoid compelling faculty adherence to specific political viewpoints and compromising both academic freedom and free speech on campus. 

Proponents of mandatory DEI statements argue that such statements are a vital measure to ensure that the university is a welcoming environment for all students and faculty. But FIRE has repeatedly pointed out that mandatory statements serve as ideological litmus tests and weed out potential faculty members based on criteria unrelated to their academic work. For instance, a forthcoming study from FIRE demonstrates that colleges penalize faculty and prospective faculty whose statements focus on rural diversity, socioeconomic diversity, or intellectual diversity rather than race, ethnicity, or gender. 

MIT is taking a bold step by abolishing these mandatory statements. True to its mission, the university chose to prioritize “generating, disseminating, and preserving knowledge” above any singular ideology. When a university shares a commitment to the pursuit of knowledge, it gives faculty the latitude they need to investigate difficult subjects and take risks. This allows scholars to do their jobs, conducting the best research and teaching possible. 

This success at MIT followed a phenomenal effort by faculty on the Ad Hoc Committee on Academic Freedom and Campus Expression, alumni of the MIT Free Speech Alliance, and MIT Students for Open Inquiry. Each organization encouraged the administration to tackle speech issues on campus, and they’ve started to see improvements for free speech and academic freedom at MIT — but it didn’t start this way.

The movement to reform MIT’s policies began with a speaker disinvitation that caused many at MIT to reevaluate its free speech policies and the campus culture. To the credit of those who found this concerning, they took action. The Ad Hoc Committee drafted a statement on free expression. Alumni networked and began hosting debates on issues like race and gender to open up conversations on difficult topics within the campus community. Their success is a testament to the idea that universities can change, especially when their community is dedicated to promoting a free speech culture.

To combat the issue of ideological rubrics and mandatory DEI statements as screening tools on campus, universities nationwide need changemakers to get involved and help make the kind of improvements we’re seeing at MIT. 

Often compared to “loyalty oaths” from decades past, which required employees to swear they were “not a member of the Communist Party,” some universities like the University of California, Berkeley, and the University of California, Santa Cruz, employ blatantly ideological rubrics that penalize applicants for voicing beliefs that go against the university’s prescribed DEI position. Beliefs like “it’s better not to have outreach or affinity groups aimed at underrepresented individuals because it keeps them separate from everyone else, or will make them feel less valued” suffer from this type of viewpoint discrimination. These rubrics likely violate the First Amendment and discourage conversation about controversial issues. 

What’s more, they can cripple a university’s ability to find the best and brightest for faculty positions. According to a self-survey conducted by UC Berkeley, 76% of applicants for a position in the life sciences department were eliminated solely due to their DEI statements. This means the overwhelming majority of candidates were not considered for their academic or instructional qualifications. Instead, the university eliminated them for failing to conform. This is hardly a recipe for scientific progress. 

MIT made the right call by abolishing mandatory DEI statements, and there’s no reason for this victory for free expression to remain isolated. When faculty, alumni, and students band together, real reform is possible. 

Colleges and universities nationwide should follow MIT’s lead by ceasing the use of mandatory DEI statements for faculty hiring and let faculty debate ideas and research broadly without intimidation. 

https://www.thefire.org/news/mit-stops-using-dei-statements-faculty-hiring#:~:text=The university will no longer,their foot in the door.

I am a member of the MIT Free Speech Alliance that helped make this happen. :humblebrag:

[MDC 6,013]

3 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

We have had vastly different experiences then. Mine has been almost exclusively in the Tech Space and in that space and what I am describing has been at every single one. I am seeing this internally from a recruiters point of view.   

I’ve never worked in the tech industry. Are you seeing women/minorities over represented there - 50%+ women and 40%+ racial minorities?

[kilroy69 1,039]

Just now, MDC said:

I’ve never worked in the tech industry. Are you seeing women/minorities over represented there - 50%+ women and 40%+ racial minorities?

Good question. I am seeing them push them no matter what. I basically have 2 different job descriptions. One for a "perfect candidate" which is a white guy who walks on water and then I am seeing the HM say.. well we do not need ALL of these if they were a underrepresented minority group. Which is anyone not a white male or an Indian male.  I had to reject candidates that were very well suited for the position because their focus is on getting minorities in.  Someone mentioned it in an earlier post. These URMG do not have the talent pool to support the insane dei policies that most of these places have. 

[GutterBoy 2,539]

3 minutes ago, MDC said:

I’ve never worked in the tech industry. Are you seeing women/minorities over represented there - 50%+ women and 40%+ racial minorities?

I've worked in the tech industry most of my life.  It's been mostly white men I've dealt with for 30 years.  Never had a boss that wasn't a white man until recently, who is an Indian man.  I have managed mostly white men during my career.

[MDC 6,013]

1 minute ago, kilroy69 said:

Good question. I am seeing them push them no matter what. I basically have 2 different job descriptions. One for a "perfect candidate" which is a white guy who walks on water and then I am seeing the HM say.. well we do not need ALL of these if they were a underrepresented minority group. Which is anyone not a white male or an Indian male.  I had to reject candidates that were very well suited for the position because their focus is on getting minorities in.  Someone mentioned it in an earlier post. These URMG do not have the talent pool to support the insane dei policies that most of these places have. 

If your company doesn’t have 50% women and 30-40% minorities, why do you think they’re over represented? 

[kilroy69 1,039]

4 minutes ago, MDC said:

If your company doesn’t have 50% women and 30-40% minorities, why do you think they’re over represented? 

Depends on what function they are in.  The HR function is 80 percent minority... because women are automatically counted as a minority for cooperate purposes 

[nobody 2,113]

3 hours ago, kilroy69 said:

You guys like how he doublespeaks all the time. 

You still doing recruiting?  Tell me he wouldn't be a great middle manager.

Except for the whole white male part, of course.

[nobody 2,113]

3 hours ago, kilroy69 said:

No. YOUR company works differently. Look up DEI on Linkedin and go to people.(in the first 3 pages of people you can find 1 that is a straight white male) What you will see are VERY few white men in the DEI space. Your company is absolutely the outlier here and coming from someone who has done rpo work for multiple large companies that are very well known I assure you that what I am telling you IS how DEI works.  If you do not believe me try talking to a recruiter from another company other than yours. See what they have to say. I am 100 percent confident that this is standard practice based on the companies I have worked at.  

I'm pretty good friends with the manager of HR at a large hotel conglomerate.  She confirms your perspective that at her place hiring is all about gender and race these days.

[Hardcore troubadour 13,032]

It’s like some of you don’t go out into the world and encounter employees of large corporations.  

[kilroy69 1,039]

I just did the 3rd part of an interview process. The ENTIRE thing was about diversity, how I would find and interact with people of color, females, lgbtq. That was literally it. How are you going to bring in people who do not look like you. I had to put my mask on and do the DEI dance. The crazy thing is that in my career about half the candidates I have placed are people who do not look like me. Not because I am concentrating on these people but because they happen to have been the best candidate for the job WHO RESPONDED to my outreach when I headhunted them. 

[torridjoe 48]

Came for all the mediocre white tears. Wasn’t disappointed. Some of y’all need a diaper and a tissue. 

[torridjoe 48]

On 5/21/2024 at 11:32 AM, nobody said:

I'm pretty good friends with the manager of HR at a large hotel conglomerate.  She confirms your perspective that at her place hiring is all about gender and race these days.

Which means people just trying to do an end around and show off DEI theater. It’s passive resistance.