About effing time…Ukraine to fall by end 2024

[Ron_Artest 690]

3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I also said dangerous bio chemicals that no sane country would let be performed on their soil. Why do you ignore that? You can only process one thought at a time? 

Is the US sane?  Don't answer that, I know you hate America.  We have biolabs all over the world.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,695]

3 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

You asked how does it end with Russia.  Who says it has to end?  Russia has been a country for 1000 years, who says it has to end?  There was a point in time where Russia was embracing western ideals and freedom.  They've since slid back into old communism, but hopefully for the people of Russia they can gain freedom and prosperity at some point.  Putin is not going to give it to them, so this chapter ends with a failed Putin and maybe a new leader that supports the Russian people.

I’m talking about this war. Is Russian defeat the only acceptable outcome? 

[Ron_Artest 690]

3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Pay wall. But does it say there were no bio labs there? 

Pro-Russian channels and QAnon conspiracy theorists think Moscow is launching airstrikes on Ukraine to destroy bioweapon-manufacturing labs in order to prevent the American infectious disease expert Anthony Fauci from creating a sequel to the COVID-19 virus.

This theory hangs on the entirely discredited idea that the coronavirus was designed as a bioweapon, perhaps by the U.S. government itself. And yet, the theory is being shared thousands of times, faster than regulated social media networks can yank the conspiracy theory down. On unregulated platforms, such as Telegram and 8chan, the conspiracy theory has become incredibly popular, racking up hundreds of thousands of hits each day.

The theory is now being actively contributed to, and promoted, by one Russian embassy, an official Russian state propaganda outlet, and media channels in Serbia and China.

The Russian government has laid the groundwork for this conspiracy for some time. In January, a Russian-language Telegram account warned that a “full-fledged network of biological laboratories has been deployed,” studying deadly viruses that are already making people sick in Kazakhstan with “American grants.” The Russian newspaper Izvestia ran a story in May 2020 making similar claims, and they have been repeated in pro-Russian Ukrainian news sites. A close advisor of Russian President Vladimir Putin himself has accused the United States of developing “more and more biological laboratories … mainly by the Russian and Chinese borders.”

The conspiracy has received past support in Chinese propaganda, after Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson Hua Chunying said last May, in response to claims in Australian media about China’s own supposed biowarfare programs, that the United States had been secretly working on biolabs and had 16 in Ukraine alone. Chinese state media has repeatedly spread the false claim that the coronavirus originated from the U.S. Army base at Fort Detrick. The conspiracy theory even pushed the Security Service of Ukraine to debunk the allegation of American-run bioweapons facilities in 2020.

Yet the conspiracy theory emerged with new purpose this week. The most recent incarnation of this conspiracy theory seems to have begun with the moderately prominent—and now suspended—Twitter account @WarClandestine, which posted two maps comparing Russian airstrikes and “US biolabs in Ukraine.”

“It certainly appears Putin is targeting the cities and locations with #USBiolabs present,” the account tweeted. “He is 100% going after the alleged bioweapons.”

The @WarClandestine account, and others linked to it, do seem to legitimately belong to an American, whose first name is Jacob and who has occasionally posted images and video of himself—in one TikTok video, he says he served in the U.S. Army. Over the past two years, the account has frequently shared QAnon conspiracy theories, often racking up thousands of retweets on Twitter before being suspended from the platform for spreading misinformation.

In December 2020, the account earned mockery after sharing an overwrought story of a date that went badly due to his support for Donald Trump. In recent weeks, the account was closely following the anti-vaccine occupation in Canada, at one point tweeting at Ottawa’s police force: “We got enough rope for your fascist asses too. When all is said and done, you’ll be swinging with the rest of them.”

The supporting evidence for @WarClandestine’s Ukrainian bioweapons idea is flimsy, even by conspiracy theory standards: The account rests on little more than the assumption that all laboratories that accept American funding are responsible for creating bioweapons. It also uses the nebulous term “biolabs” to describe a wide swath of facilities, which are numerous and common in every European country.

But even a lazy conspiracy theory can take hold if it is promoted enough.

Within hours of the initial tweet, the conspiracy site Infowars published a story largely regurgitating the conspiracy theory. Not long after, the right-wing media site OpIndia ran a similar story. While Infowars’ social media reach is stunted by bans from most major websites, OpIndia’s version of the story was shared more than 2,500 times to Facebook. A constellation of other anti-vaccine and QAnon websites picked up the story from there. A write-up on one minor conspiracy site was shared widely among Bulgarian speakers.

Through all this, the hashtag #usbiolabs began trending. TikTok videos promoting the theory racked up tens of thousands of hits. “If you believe those U.S.-funded biolabs in Ukraine aren’t making biological weapons, please sit all the way down,” one TikTok user said. A YouTube video, regurgitating the Infowars shared, was viewed some 350,000 times by Tuesday afternoon. After Twitter suspended @WarClandestine, screencaps of his theory were posted on Reddit, on a part of the site notorious for disinformation known as “r/conspiracy,” where it hit nearly 2,000 upvotes. On the QAnon sections of the fringe message board 8chan, users linked a series of unconnected data points to flesh out the sensational tale.

The baseless nature of the conspiracy theory was picked up by such debunkers as Snopes and @PatriotTakes.

With Russia’s war effort struggling against fierce Ukrainian resistance, the Russians gave the story a boost.

On Feb. 27, the Russian Embassy in Bosnia and Herzegovina came out endorsing the theory, posting on Facebook, according to Serbian broadcaster N1, that the United States was “filling Ukraine with biolabs, which were—very possibly—used to study methods for destroying the Russian people at the genetic level.”

Requests for comment sent to the Russian embassies in Bosnia and Herzegovina, the United States, the United Kingdom, and Canada went unanswered.

@WarClandestine, after being suspended by Twitter, reappeared under a new account not-so-subtly labeled “Definitely Not Clandestine” to share the Serbian news item. “My hypothesis was correct!” he wrote, in a tweet that garnered more than a thousand retweets in a matter of hours. He has also popped up on the unregulated social media sites Gettr and Telegram.

By Tuesday morning, an official channel for Sputnik, a Kremlin-owned propaganda outlet, posted to Telegram: “Here are some of the documents on US biolabs in Ukraine,” posting documents from the U.S. government. (While they do not show anything nefarious or unusual, the documents appear to be offline as of Tuesday afternoon.) The idea has also returned to the fringes of Chinese state media, not heavily promoted but present in coverage.

Mention of these biolabs and the missing documents were seen hundreds of thousands of times across an array of Russian-language Telegram accounts, including several that have had a particularly large role in spreading pro-Kremlin propaganda since the war began and that were, immediately prior, sharing information complimentary of anti-vaccine convoys in the United States and Canada. One concluded that “the United States was engaged in the creation of a deadly virus in a biolaboratory in Kharkov”—the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv has been subject to a particularly brutal bombing campaign, with at least nine civilians dying in airstrikes on Monday.

The premise of the theory is baseless. Ukraine has no labs labeled as “BSL-4,” the highest grade that allows them to work on the most dangerous pathogens, and only one BSL-3 lab. American support for the facility is not secret and has funded science on a number of zoonotic diseases in Ukraine: Washington also funds facilities in Georgia and even Russia-friendly Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan. The United States has been engaged in a program known as the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, which cooperates on reducing epidemiological risk in Ukraine and elsewhere: Some of the Russian reporting has mistranslated this as the “Special Defense Weapons Agency.”

 

[Ron_Artest 690]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

I’m talking about this war. Is Russian defeat the only acceptable outcome? 

Acceptable to who?  Ukraine?  I think so.  I think Russia would be fine with letting them keep the eastern half of Ukraine while they stockpile to take the rest in a few years.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,695]

3 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

Is the US sane?  Don't answer that, I know you hate America.  We have biolabs all over the world.

Yes. But it depends on the work being performed.  Much of it , like gain of function, is prohibited in our country. That’s why it was done in China. Have you been paying attention? We farm it  out because it’s dangerous. And we stick it in corrupt shitholes for a reason. 

[BeachGuy23 520]

22 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

If we believe you, if we don’t save this historically corrupt country that used to be in Russia somehow we’re all speaking Russian in 30 years. 
 

Boooooooooogeyman!!!!

Hitler won't advance post Poland said the pus$ies...

[cyclone24 1,814]

11 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

Yeah that's what I said.

Did you ever take a history class?  

Yeah, OK you’re done here. Maybe check your bed when you get home. Vladimir might be under there. 
 

This is very on brand for the left though. Create fake scenarios in your head to cost us billions of dollars that doesn’t prevent literally anything from changing.

[cyclone24 1,814]

1 minute ago, BeachGuy23 said:

Hitler won't advance post Poland said the pus$ies...

Nobody takes you seriously. No idea what you’re talking about. Again must be exhausting. Logging in and out of accounts when you’re the same goofball on every one

[Ron_Artest 690]

Just now, cyclone24 said:

Yeah, OK you’re done here. Maybe check your bed when you get home. Vladimir might be under there. 
 

This is very on brand for the left though. Create fake scenarios in your head to cost us billions of dollars that doesn’t prevent literally anything from changing.

Yup.  Everything will be fine if we just focus on the US, forget the rest of the world.  Solid plan.

[Ron_Artest 690]

Just now, cyclone24 said:

No idea what you’re talking about.

Exactly his point.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,695]

So, no denial that there are biolabs in the Ukraine. Got it. Thanks Gutterboy. And thats good, considering it’s been confirmed that there are.  But you can cling to the “no bio weapons” claim if you want. Doesn’t matter to me. There were/ are still clandestine bio labs there. Now you have to ask why was that denied? 

[BeachGuy23 520]

3 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

Nobody takes you seriously. No idea what you’re talking about. Again must be exhausting. Logging in and out of accounts when you’re the same goofball on every one

You're a pus$y.

Is it any wonder that Trump controls these cultists minds so thoroughly and easily?

They're weak and scared and looking for a father figure.  Like women they are.

"who cares if Russia expands its territory near our most strategic allies"

"ukraine is corrupt, who cares about them"

Y'all make me embarrassed to be a man...SMH

[Hardcore troubadour 12,695]

5 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

Nobody takes you seriously. No idea what you’re talking about. Again must be exhausting. Logging in and out of accounts when you’re the same goofball on every one

You gotta completely ignore that shitt head (beach ball) when a conversation is happening. Toy with him when bored for amusement. 

[BeachGuy23 520]

4 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So, no denial that there are biolabs in the Ukraine. Got it. Thanks Gutterboy. And thats good, considering it’s been confirmed that there are.  But you can cling to the “no bio weapons” claim if you want. Doesn’t matter to me. There were/ are still clandestine bio labs there. Now you have to ask why was that denied? 

What are made in these biolabs cop?

You sure seemed well versed in the subject.

And I now the term "biolab" scares the beejeebers out of you. 

[BeachGuy23 520]

6 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You gotta completely ignore that shitt head (beach ball) when a conversation is happening. Toy with him when bored for amusement. 

Tough to argue facts when you operate on nothing but feelz like a chick like you.

Better to ignore the dude spouting facts.

Cuck

[cyclone24 1,814]

Ignore feature is a hell of an option. Just let him scream into the void.

[The Real timschochet 2,985]

So just to restate- the title of this thread is wrong. Ukraine COULD fall without our support, but with our support they won’t.

And we’re going to support them. There will be a bill passed this weekend sending Ukraine 61 billion in aid (mostly a boon to our defense industry.) This debate is over; those of us who wanted this to happen have won. 

[cyclone24 1,814]

45 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

So just to restate- the title of this thread is wrong. Ukraine COULD fall without our support, but with our support they won’t.

And we’re going to support them. There will be a bill passed this weekend sending Ukraine 61 billion in aid (mostly a boon to our defense industry.) This debate is over; those of us who wanted this to happen have won. 

America last. So on brand for you guys. 
 

And couple things. They will fall anyway. This idea that Ukraine is going to fight the good fight and defeat. Russia is a joke. Secondly if Ukraine Falls, we lose absolutely nothing. 
 

We’re going to spend $61 billion that our country desperately needs so you guys can feel good that this corrupt country doesn’t get whacked and for what? So you feel good about it.

 

never miss an opportunity to spend other peoples money. The liberal way.

[Tree of Knowledge 842]

Will we have a V-U Day like the last time the Russians helped defeat Nazi’s?

[HellToupee 749]

The beachboi is a little spicy in here today. He’s a very naughty boyo

[The Real timschochet 2,985]

37 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

America last. So on brand for you guys. 
 

And couple things. They will fall anyway. This idea that Ukraine is going to fight the good fight and defeat. Russia is a joke. Secondly if Ukraine Falls, we lose absolutely nothing. 
 

We’re going to spend $61 billion that our country desperately needs so you guys can feel good that this corrupt country doesn’t get whacked and for what? So you feel good about it.

 

never miss an opportunity to spend other peoples money. The liberal way.

Well we’ll eventually find out if you’re right. I doubt you will be. Anyhow it’s done, I’m happy about it, let’s move on. 

[BeachGuy23 520]

33 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

The beachboi is a little spicy in here today. He’s a very naughty boyo

Sorry boyo, I hate cowards. 

[The Real timschochet 2,985]

4 minutes ago, BeachGuy23 said:

Sorry boyo, I hate cowards. 

You don’t need to continue. They lost this. Let’s not rub it in. 

[cyclone24 1,814]

7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

You don’t need to continue. They lost this. Let’s not rub it in. 

It’s truly baffling how you can celebrate this. They are going to lose and cost us billions of dollars.
What are you rubbing in? That we have to spend billions of dollars because either you’re afraid of the boogeyman or that it gives you a warm fuzzy that it’ll take two years longer than it would have otherwise to wipe Ukraine out?
 

What you doing, what a reasonable person would do is demand Zelensky surrender and stop getting all of his people killed and wasting our money.

[Maximum Overkill 670]

5 hours ago, thegeneral said:

But it’s in our and our allies best interest to tell Russia to eat a d1ck. 

You can tell Russia whatever you want, that doesn't change the inevitable outcome. 

If Biden and The World wanted to SERIOUSLY stop Russia from invading Ukraine they would of stacked the Ukrainian border with heavy armor and 100,000+ soldiers PRIOR to the invasion. It's not like we didn't have ample warning. 

That would be if they were serious. A little late now ain't it? 

[The Real timschochet 2,985]

30 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

It’s truly baffling how you can celebrate this. They are going to lose and cost us billions of dollars.
What are you rubbing in? That we have to spend billions of dollars because either you’re afraid of the boogeyman or that it gives you a warm fuzzy that it’ll take two years longer than it would have otherwise to wipe Ukraine out?
 

What you doing, what a reasonable person would do is demand Zelensky surrender and stop getting all of his people killed and wasting our money.

Today is a great day for freedom. And it’s a “no” from the American people to Donald Trump and the isolationists. 

[Maximum Overkill 670]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Today is a great day for freedom. And it’s a “no”

So send your Kids over there to fight the USSR, since you really care. 

If you care 

[cyclone24 1,814]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Today is a great day for freedom. And it’s a “no” from the American people to Donald Trump and the isolationists. 

This country. The one you live in is literally rotting from the inside out, but yeah, let’s go save Ukraine. You guys are the worst humans for our country possible. And it’s evident in almost every metric going on currently. Your policies are a joke and the reasoning is almost worse.  
I truly hope Russia rules through them in two months and gets this over with. What proxy war are you guys looking at next to feel good about?

[Tree of Knowledge 842]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Today is a great day for freedom. And it’s a “no” from the American people to Donald Trump and the isolationists. 

More like a victory for the Military Industrial Complex. Beach homes in New England are being snapped up as I type.  

[Fnord 1,143]

1 hour ago, cyclone24 said:

America last. So on brand for you guys. 
 

And couple things. They will fall anyway. This idea that Ukraine is going to fight the good fight and defeat. Russia is a joke. Secondly if Ukraine Falls, we lose absolutely nothing 

This isn't just about military might or money. This is also about grain, farmland, and natural resources. Ukraine produces large quantities of iron, coal, natural gas, titanium, manganese, and uranium. It's the breadbasket of Europe due to ideal soil and growing conditions for wheat. It's the world's largest producer and exporter of sunflower oil and seed. In 2021 they were the second largest exporter of grain products in the world, after the US. Their grain fed an estimated 400 million people and accounted for 10% of global crop sales.

Putin could literally cause famine, energy crises, huge inflation, and large shortages of the above products worldwide if he controls Ukraine. To say nothing of the geopolitical ramifications. No American will benefit, and the entire world will be at Putin's mercy. $60 billion is a small price to pay to prevent that.

[Maximum Overkill 670]

6 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

This country. The one you live in is literally rotting from the inside out, but yeah, let’s go save Ukraine. You guys are the worst humans for our country possible. And it’s evident in almost every metric going on currently. Your policies are a joke and the reasoning is almost worse.  

Exactly. He has no idea what the F he's talking about. So he wants us to help defeat Russia but on his terms? 

And how does Ukraine defeat Russia without us sending American Soldiers to fight their battle? Are we committed or not? 

They can't win!!! Money doesn't give them the bodies to fight one of the largest militaries in the World. 

These Pedocrats are so F'ING stupid!! 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,695]

The only guy I have heard talk about stopping people dying there and making a deal to end it is President Trump. 

[cyclone24 1,814]

3 minutes ago, Fnord said:

This isn't just about military might or money. This is also about grain, farmland, and natural resources. Ukraine produces large quantities of iron, coal, natural gas, titanium, manganese, and uranium. It's the breadbasket of Europe due to ideal soil and growing conditions for wheat. It's the world's largest producer and exporter of sunflower oil and seed. In 2021 they were the second largest exporter of grain products in the world, after the US. Their grain fed an estimated 400 million people and accounted for 10% of global crop sales.

Putin could literally cause famine, energy crises, huge inflation, and large shortages of the above products worldwide if he controls Ukraine. To say nothing of the geopolitical ramifications. No American will benefit, and the entire world will be at Putin's mercy. $60 billion is a small price to pay to prevent that.

Thank you for at least providing a rational non-fantasy land argument. I may not 100% agree with the gravity that you present from it but it’s at least a fair argument to make although I’d be curious how much we are importing from Ukraine that we couldn’t do elsewhere… and not have to spend billions

[Maximum Overkill 670]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The only guy I have heard talk about stopping people dying there and making a deal to end it is President Trump. 

But Biden did say "Don't".

[cyclone24 1,814]

Just now, Maximum Overkill said:

But Biden did say "Don't".

Maybe Hillary can dig up that old Russian reset button again. These are not serious people. Maybe Obama‘s red line will work this time.

[Maximum Overkill 670]

5 minutes ago, Fnord said:

$60 billion is a small price to pay to prevent that.

So please tell me how $60 billion changes anything? Then I'll explain to you the realities of fighting a war. 

[Fnord 1,143]

2 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

Thank you for at least providing a rational non-fantasy land argument. I may not 100% agree with the gravity that you present from it but it’s at least a fair argument to make although I’d be curious how much we are importing from Ukraine that we couldn’t do elsewhere… and not have to spend billions

It's not so much what the US imports from them, it's the rest of the world, especially Europe. We have the responsibility, as members of NATO, to aid and protect our European allies. Ukraine falling would definitely be worse for Europe than it would for us, but ultimately it would roil the markets and cause huge amounts of suffering. Again, not even mentioning the strategic military ramifications. 

[Fnord 1,143]

18 minutes ago, Tree of Knowledge said:

More like a victory for the Military Industrial Complex. Beach homes in New England are being snapped up as I type.  

No one disagrees with this. The MIC ALWAYS wins.

[thegeneral 1,428]

55 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

You can tell Russia whatever you want, that doesn't change the inevitable outcome. 

If Biden and The World wanted to SERIOUSLY stop Russia from invading Ukraine they would of stacked the Ukrainian border with heavy armor and 100,000+ soldiers PRIOR to the invasion. It's not like we didn't have ample warning. 

That would be if they were serious. A little late now ain't it? 

I don’t think that would have flown

[HellToupee 749]

57 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Today is a great day for freedom. And it’s a “no” from the American people to Donald Trump and the isolationists. 

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