The Golden Age Of Corruption has begun

[The Psychic Observer 498]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

In the past Democrats have pronounced their opposition to wasteful spending, they could easily do it here and avoid losing more voters.

So....what I am saying is instead of reversing themselves JUST to oppose Trump at every and any turn.....stay true to their roots, work WITH doge to make this better.

They could add value to this process. Plus....if they cooperate they can influence the process, get access to strategies and undermine the Republicans with leaks.  Why not try that?

They are in calls for transparency and oversight.  Trump and Musk don't want any of that.  Curious as to why someone with virtuous intent would oppose oversight and transparency don't you think?

[RLLD 4,230]

Just now, The Psychic Observer said:

They are in calls for transparency and oversight.  Trump and Musk don't want any of that.  Curious as to why someone with virtuous intent would oppose oversight and transparency don't you think?

This is not true, in the least, they continue to show everything.  Again, you have to consider that simply throwing mud at them on this is a losing tactic.

They have the upper hand in this, they are steadily releasing findings and will continue to do so.  More and more will be released, on top of what already has.

THEN....how does that come across to the average person....that Democrats were trying to hide it.  The win here for Democrats is to hold their nose, stop opposing just for the sake of opposing and take advantage of the opportunity.

[The Psychic Observer 498]

Just now, RLLD said:

This is not true, in the least, they continue to show everything.  Again, you have to consider that simply throwing mud at them on this is a losing tactic.

They have the upper hand in this, they are steadily releasing findings and will continue to do so.  More and more will be released, on top of what already has.

THEN....how does that come across to the average person....that Democrats were trying to hide it.  The win here for Democrats is to hold their nose, stop opposing just for the sake of opposing and take advantage of the opportunity.

It is true.  The only "transparency" is what Musk posts on X and most of that has been proven to be false.  Where is the auditor?  Where is the independent oversight?  Doge doesn't want that.  Why do you think that is?

I do agree with you on the upper hand and the narrative.  Musk posting lies about condoms to gaza or transgender education wins public support.

[RLLD 4,230]

2 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

It is true.  The only "transparency" is what Musk posts on X and most of that has been proven to be false.  Where is the auditor?  Where is the independent oversight?  Doge doesn't want that.  Why do you think that is?

I do agree with you on the upper hand and the narrative.  Musk posting lies about condoms to gaza or transgender education wins public support.

It is not true, they continue to show us plenty.  Now, if you want to see more I get that, but then Democrats complain even more about stuff....so I prefer the pace they have for now.

Rather than fight this, as Democrats have and you are right now, I propose an alternative.  Democrats reach out and find that this is common ground, and instead work on it with them.

Not unlike trying to suppress free speech, this is also a losing battle...... and one they need not fight. Almost every current prominent Democrat has asserted they wanted to do this. So do it, stop painting it as bad just because the other side is doing it.

[Fnord 2,264]

26 minutes ago, RLLD said:

It is not true, they continue to show us plenty.  Now, if you want to see more I get that, but then Democrats complain even more about stuff....so I prefer the pace they have for now.

Rather than fight this, as Democrats have and you are right now, I propose an alternative.  Democrats reach out and find that this is common ground, and instead work on it with them.

Not unlike trying to suppress free speech, this is also a losing battle...... and one they need not fight. Almost every current prominent Democrat has asserted they wanted to do this. So do it, stop painting it as bad just because the other side is doing it.

I will speak for myself only, not pols or dyed in the wool Dems.

The opposition is not in identifying and eliminating waste, as it keeps getting painted by you and every other conservative. It is the illegality of the actions and subsequent erosion of the rule of law. Simply put, Mump does not have the legal authority to do this, and if they did, we are no longer looking at a co-equal government reigned in by checks and balances. We have an emperor, not a president.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,099]

1 minute ago, Fnord said:

I will speak for myself only, not pols or dyed in the wool Dems.

The opposition is not in identifying and eliminating waste, as it keeps getting painted by you and every other conservative. It is the illegality of the actions and subsequent erosion of the rule of law. Simply put, Mump does not have the legal authority to do this, and if they did, we are no longer looking at a co-equal government reigned in by checks and balances. We have an emperor, not a president.

According to the Trump Admin, Musk is a senior advisor and has no decision making authority.  It sounds like Musk is reporting to Trump and Trump is making the call, not Musk.  Musk is simply the conduit.

 

[shadrap 228]

4 minutes ago, Fnord said:

I will speak for myself only, not pols or dyed in the wool Dems.

The opposition is not in identifying and eliminating waste, as it keeps getting painted by you and every other conservative. It is the illegality of the actions and subsequent erosion of the rule of law. Simply put, Mump does not have the legal authority to do this, and if they did, we are no longer looking at a co-equal government reigned in by checks and balances. We have an emperor, not a president.

Most everything I've read says it is not illegal.  Trump is executive chief & Musk was hired to do DOGE by Trump.

[RLLD 4,230]

9 minutes ago, Fnord said:

I will speak for myself only, not pols or dyed in the wool Dems.

The opposition is not in identifying and eliminating waste, as it keeps getting painted by you and every other conservative. It is the illegality of the actions and subsequent erosion of the rule of law. Simply put, Mump does not have the legal authority to do this, and if they did, we are no longer looking at a co-equal government reigned in by checks and balances. We have an emperor, not a president.

Musk has the authority to do this.   Trump granted him that authority. Using that excuse just makes Democrats look complicit, and that they have something to hide.

Now, you all ignored my warning about how you handled the economy prior to the election, when I warned about lying to the people. So hear me now, this is a very.....very bad look for Democrats.  The average person looks at the spending, and then the Democrats fighting to stop Musk from exposing it.....and makes a correlation.  You really need to consider this.

I propose an alternative. Rather than oppose simply to oppose, which is all that is happening here, instead cooperate. and exert some influence and perhaps control over the process....and deny Republicans so much campaign material.  JMHO

[Fnord 2,264]

5 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

According to the Trump Admin, Musk is a senior advisor and has no decision making authority.  It sounds like Musk is reporting to Trump and Trump is making the call, not Musk.  Musk is simply the conduit.

 

 

1 minute ago, shadrap said:

Most everything I've read says it is not illegal.  Trump is executive chief & Musk was hired to do DOGE by Trump.

I'll just give one example: Trump lacks the authority to fire the inspectors general.

Quote

The removal procedure for presidentially appointed IGs is found in Title 5, Section 403(b), which reads in part

An Inspector General may be removed from office by the President. If an Inspector General is removed from office or is transferred to another position or location within an establishment, the President shall communicate in writing the substantive rationale, including detailed and case-specific reasons for any such removal or transfer to both Houses of Congress (including the appropriate congressional committees), not later than 30 days before the removal or transfer. Nothing in this subsection shall prohibit a personnel action otherwise authorized by law, other than transfer or removal.

There was no notice given for any of the firings, nor was any justification given. And at least 5 of the IG fired were investigating companies run by Musk. Even if there is not a legitimate conflict of interest present, the appearance of COI is overwhelming. These are things that, once they become normalized, which MAGA is attempting to do, the negative effects to checks and balances and the rule of law accelerate.

[The Psychic Observer 498]

32 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

According to the Trump Admin, Musk is a senior advisor and has no decision making authority.  It sounds like Musk is reporting to Trump and Trump is making the call, not Musk.  Musk is simply the conduit.

 

Trump is only saying this because AGs sued to stop doge under the ruling that Musk has too much power and needs congressional approval.

By stating that Musk has no authority that removes his need for congressional approval.

But we all know what is going on.

[Horseman 2,456]

1 minute ago, The Psychic Observer said:

Trump is only saying this because AGs sued to stop doge under the ruling that Musk has too much power and needs congressional approval.

By stating that Musk has no authority that removes his need for congressional approval.

But we all know what is going on.

Brilliant.

[The Real timschochet 6,761]

One of the biggest examples of the corruption under Trump’s presidency, dating back to his first term, is this whole Saudi Arabia LIV golf thing: 

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/18/business/dealbook/pga-tour-liv-golf-saudi-deal-trump.html

Trump’s businesses are directly involved. 

[CaptainObvious1 368]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

One of the biggest examples of the corruption under Trump’s presidency, dating back to his first term, is this whole Saudi Arabia LIV golf thing: 

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/18/business/dealbook/pga-tour-liv-golf-saudi-deal-trump.html

Trump’s businesses are directly involved. 

OMG the horror!   Hillary lines her pockets.  Biden too.  Pelosi.  But OMG when Trump does something it's all out corruption.   

[The Real timschochet 6,761]

1 minute ago, CaptainObvious1 said:

OMG the horror!   Hillary lines her pockets.  Biden too.  Pelosi.  But OMG when Trump does something it's all out corruption.   

I could argue your facts about Hillary, Biden and Pelosi, but for the sake of argument let’s say I accept them. Does that mean that Trump gets a free pass to be as corrupt as he wants? 

[CaptainObvious1 368]

7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I could argue your facts about Hillary, Biden and Pelosi, but for the sake of argument let’s say I accept them. Does that mean that Trump gets a free pass to be as corrupt as he wants? 

It means I don't give a F about your opinions on Trump until you lose your on those you call the greatest politicians ever.  

[The Psychic Observer 498]

14 minutes ago, CaptainObvious1 said:

OMG the horror!   Hillary lines her pockets.  Biden too.  Pelosi.  But OMG when Trump does something it's all out corruption.   

So this is not corruption?

Or it is corruption but that's OK because everyone else is corrupt too?

[The Real timschochet 6,761]

2 minutes ago, CaptainObvious1 said:

It means I don't give a F about your opinions on Trump until you lose your on those you call the greatest politicians ever.  

So we should leave Trump alone to be as corrupt as he wants? 

[CaptainObvious1 368]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

So we should leave Trump alone to be as corrupt as he wants? 

No, start with your own team first.  How much has Pelosi made off insider trading?

[The Real timschochet 6,761]

2 minutes ago, CaptainObvious1 said:

No, start with your own team first.  How much has Pelosi made off insider trading?

No idea. Could be nothing. Could be a trillion dollars. 
Should we leave Trump alone to be as corrupt as he wants? 
 

ETA- for the record, Trump is on my team. He’s my President. 

[CaptainObvious1 368]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

No idea. Could be nothing. Could be a trillion dollars. 
Should we leave Trump alone to be as corrupt as he wants? 
 

ETA- for the record, Trump is on my team. He’s my President. 

Yes, we should leave him alone and let him do what he wants.  

[Fnord 2,264]

11 minutes ago, CaptainObvious1 said:

Yes, we should leave him alone and let him do what he wants.  

So POTUS should be able to do whatever they see fit, without interference?

[Horseman 2,456]

17 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

No idea. Could be nothing. Could be a trillion dollars. 
Should we leave Trump alone to be as corrupt as he wants? 
 

ETA- for the record, Trump is on my team. He’s my President. 

The article is a bunch of speculation of things that haven't even happened yet.  Possible deals between the two leagues that stalled out under brain dead Biden.  

Captain Obvious is suggesting you pump the breaks so you don't look like such a foking hypocrite.  It's not like Trump is taking millions of dollars from China for no apparent reason.  

[CaptainObvious1 368]

7 minutes ago, Fnord said:

So POTUS should be able to do whatever they see fit, without interference?

Yeah, go with that

[Fnord 2,264]

1 minute ago, CaptainObvious1 said:

Yeah, go with that

Your unwillingness to answer simple questions borders on pathological. I'm trying to get you to open up about your rationale for some of your opinions. I get you think I suck, but it's not like I'm being hostile.

[The Psychic Observer 498]

4 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Your unwillingness to answer simple questions borders on pathological. I'm trying to get you to open up about your rationale for some of your opinions. I get you think I suck, but it's not like I'm being hostile.

Unfortunately a segment of the US population believes that Donald Trump should be allowed to do whatever he wants including illegal and corrupt activities.

I don't understand it either.

[CaptainObvious1 368]

7 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Your unwillingness to answer simple questions borders on pathological. I'm trying to get you to open up about your rationale for some of your opinions. I get you think I suck, but it's not like I'm being hostile.

Your unwillingness to grasp I think you're a hypocritical troll is pathological.  I'm not answering your stupid questions because you often put words in my mouth and expect me to defend something I didn't say.  F that.  Deal with it.

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

On 2/13/2025 at 1:30 PM, Red White and Blue said:

I’d expect anyone who gets brought in to be someone they have ties to. Having that person also be 1) your top donor to the tune of $300m AND 2) a government contractor whose businesses receive billions in contracts and subsidies is where the conflict of interest comes in.

This would be like President Harris bringing in George Soros. Republicans would hit the roof, and unlike Musk he isn’t on the government dole. 

HTH but I know it won’t.

Biden gave Musk/Tesla the government contract, not Trump.  Also, Trump's State Department removed Tesla from that contract.  So maybe your issue should be with Biden and Democrats.  You don't think that was a Democrat plan?  Put Trump's biggest supporter in line to get a boatload of cash from the government so they can gaslight about Trump?  You're not too bright.

How's Musk on the government dole?  He's not getting paid.

[TrailGuy 554]

16 minutes ago, CaptainObvious1 said:

Your unwillingness to grasp I think you're a hypocritical troll is pathological.  I'm not answering your stupid questions because you often put words in my mouth and expect me to defend something I didn't say.  F that.  Deal with it.

 

Translation: I'm too much of a poohaa to answer your question. Instead I'll just troll with insults.

[The Psychic Observer 498]

15 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

How's Musk on the government dole?  He's not getting paid.

He's going to make billions off of more contracts and also using the data he has access to not to further his business interests.  It's the long game.

He's not doing this out of the kindness of his heart or to help save a country which he has third allegiance to.  I can assure you that.

[CaptainObvious1 368]

4 minutes ago, TrailGuy said:

Translation: I'm too much of a poohaa to answer your question. Instead I'll just troll with insults.

Cuck.  Cultist.  Boyo  

[Red White and Blue 81]

19 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Biden gave Musk/Tesla the government contract, not Trump.  Also, Trump's State Department removed Tesla from that contract.  So maybe your issue should be with Biden and Democrats.  You don't think that was a Democrat plan?  Put Trump's biggest supporter in line to get a boatload of cash from the government so they can gaslight about Trump?  You're not too bright.

How's Musk on the government dole?  He's not getting paid.

Considering Tesla and SpaceX received government contracts and subsidies years before Musk endorsed Trump, no, I don’t think Biden and the Dems were pulling a rope a dope.

Maybe you shouldn’t be telling other people they’re not too bright. 

[Fnord 2,264]

1 hour ago, CaptainObvious1 said:

Your unwillingness to grasp I think you're a hypocritical troll is pathological.  I'm not answering your stupid questions because you often put words in my mouth and expect me to defend something I didn't say.  F that.  Deal with it.

I understand completely your feelings about me. What I don't understand is why you refuse to defend any of your opinions. You just pop in for quick drive by insults, then get pissy when someone wants to actually engage you. Makes me believe you don't really have a defense for your positions. Oh, sorry for "putting words in your mouth." Seems you're not capable of doing that on your own.

[CaptainObvious1 368]

1 minute ago, Fnord said:

I understand completely your feelings about me. What I don't understand is why you refuse to defend any of your opinions. You just pop in for quick drive by insults, then get pissy when someone wants to actually engage you. Makes me believe you don't really have a defense for your positions. Oh, sorry for "putting words in your mouth." Seems you're not capable of doing that on your own.

You can cry about it like a little b!tch 100 more times and it's not going to convince me to engage you.  You're an angry little troll that reports people and insults other posters all the time.  

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

No idea. Could be nothing. Could be a trillion dollars. 
Should we leave Trump alone to be as corrupt as he wants? 
 

ETA- for the record, Trump is on my team. He’s my President. 

It was ignored with the others so might as well ignore it now.  Don't be a hypocrite.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,099]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I could argue your facts about Hillary, Biden and Pelosi, but for the sake of argument let’s say I accept them. Does that mean that Trump gets a free pass to be as corrupt as he wants? 

Yes, it means he gets a free pass because the only time you guys care is when the other guys are doing it. When your guys are doing it you don't say a word.

Listen, everyone should be above the board and honest. That goes without saying.  However, the only time you guys get all moral and pious  and suddenly want the rule of law is when the other guys are doing it.  

If you practiced what you preached, you probably would have everyone on board with you.

 

[The Real timschochet 6,761]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

It was ignored with the others so might as well ignore it now.  Don't be a hypocrite.

I don’t find this to be a compelling argument. As a kid when I got in trouble I would sometimes point to my older brother and say “he was doing it too!” That never worked. For good reason. 
 

 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,099]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t find this to be a compelling argument. As a kid when I got in trouble I would sometimes point to my older brother and say “he was doing it too!” That never worked. For good reason. 
 

 

Well that's the problem. You're always pointing fingers and you're never accepting responsibility, but expecting everyone else to. You. Just keep playing the game and then keep pointing fingers.

It's a never-ending cycle and you know that.

[Fnord 2,264]

4 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Yes, it means he gets a free pass because the only time you guys care is when the other guys are doing it. When your guys are doing it you don't say a word.

Listen, everyone should be above the board and honest. That goes without saying.  However, the only time you guys get all moral and pious  and suddenly want the rule of law is when the other guys are doing it.  

If you practice what you preached, you probably have better responses.

 

What keeps getting glossed over in these conversations is that many of us do not feel as though the DOJ was weaponized against Trump. Maybe we're wrong; but if you start off with that understanding, the rest of your argument falls apart, because we do care. We don't say anything because we don't believe it was wrong.

[The Real timschochet 6,761]

4 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Yes, it means he gets a free pass because the only time you guys care is when the other guys are doing it. When your guys are doing it you don't say a word.

Listen, everyone should be above the board and honest. That goes without saying.  However, the only time you guys get all moral and pious  and suddenly want the rule of law is when the other guys are doing it.  

If you practiced what you preached, you probably would have everyone on board with you.

 

Again we’re just discussing this for the sake of argument because I don’t concede that “the other guys” mentioned were in fact guilty of corruption. But let’s assume they are: 

You are correct that liberals only bring up this topic when it is conservatives who are accused of crimes, otherwise they avoid it. What you failed to mention is that conservatives only bring up this topic when it is liberals who are accused of crimes, otherwise they avoid it as well. Both sides are equally guilty of hypocrisy and a double standard. 

But that being said I don’t think the solution is ever to turn a blind eye to crimes of this nature. I will accept the charges of hypocrisy and still insist that if corruption occurs we need to at least try to stop it. 

 

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t find this to be a compelling argument. As a kid when I got in trouble I would sometimes point to my older brother and say “he was doing it too!” That never worked. For good reason. 
 

 

It's exactly what you're doing.  It's what a lot of people who are strongly biased towards their party do.  Republicans are just as guilty.  It's only a problem when the other party does it.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter.  He's the President.  Get over it and hopefully we all do better with the next election.