Israel Gaza thread

[TimHauck 2,908]

Israel wouldn’t even allow journalists to video Gaza from above during aid drops

[jerryskids 6,829]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

There are tons of videos of the aftermath of killings, and of course videos where you can’t see who’s doing the shooting.  But I know you think that means it’s Hamas doing it.  But maybe people don’t like to stick around when there’s shooting going on?

"Videos where you can't see who's doing the shooting" implies that those videos show people being shot.  So there are videos of peaceful people just standing in line for aid getting shot?   

[TimHauck 2,908]

3 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

"Videos where you can't see who's doing the shooting" implies that those videos show people being shot.  So there are videos of peaceful people just standing in line for aid getting shot?   

No I’m not saying that if you can’t see who’s doing the shooting that someone definitely got shot

[jerryskids 6,829]

24 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

No I’m not saying that if you can’t see who’s doing the shooting that someone definitely got shot

So, what are you saying?

[The Real timschochet 6,843]

59 minutes ago, Strike said:

Let me ask you two simple questions, and the 2nd is premised on your answer to the first.  Do you think Hamas has ANY, even a .1 % chance of achieving your stated objective of theirs of destroying Israel?  My answer to that is no, they do not have the slightest chance of that happening.  If you concur, do you think they're retarded?  Because if they have zero chance of achieving their objective all they're accomplishing is the destruction of their own people.  if they're not retarded, they're doing it on purpose.

1. No. 
2. No. The popularity of Hamas among the Palestinians is that they begin with an in your face unbending position. It’s been shown time and again that most people prefer leaders who fight back; this aspect is far more important than any position they hold. Thus, Hamas is much more popular with young Palestinians than Al Fatah which is seen as weak for working with Israel. If you don’t understand this, then you understand very little about this conflict. 

[Strike 5,590]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

1. No. 
2. No. The popularity of Hamas among the Palestinians is that they begin with an in your face unbending position. It’s been shown time and again that most people prefer leaders who fight back; this aspect is far more important than any position they hold. Thus, Hamas is much more popular with young Palestinians than Al Fatah which is seen as weak for working with Israel. If you don’t understand this, then you understand very little about this conflict. 

Cool.  So you acknowledge that Hamas is the duly elected government of Gaza.  As such, their people deserve whatever fate befalls them.  I'm glad we agree.  Now can you tell your namesake all of this as well.

[The Real timschochet 6,843]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

Cool.  So you acknowledge that Hamas is the duly elected government of Gaza.  As such, their people deserve whatever fate befalls them.  I'm glad we agree.  Now can you tell your namesake all of this as well.

No. You can’t be duly elected 20 years ago. I was explaining the reason for Hamas’ previous popularity. Now that there is starvation? Who knows? But it’s all conjecture since there is no election, nobody to challenge Hamas for leadership. 

I also disagree with your second point. Even if people elect a terrible leader who causes them to suffer and die, that doesn’t mean the people who voted for him deserve that fate. The vast majority of Palestinians alive today have never voted in any election at all in their lives. But even the ones who did, if they did not partake directly in the crimes of the Hamas leadership, do not deserve to suffer the consequences of that leadership. There is no such thing as collective guilt. 

[Strike 5,590]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

No. You can’t be duly elected 20 years ago. I was explaining the reason for Hamas’ previous popularity. Now that there is starvation? Who knows? But it’s all conjecture since there is no election, nobody to challenge Hamas for leadership. 

I also disagree with your second point. Even if people elect a terrible leader who causes them to suffer and die, that doesn’t mean the people who voted for him deserve that fate. The vast majority of Palestinians alive today have never voted in any election at all in their lives. But even the ones who did, if they did not partake directly in the crimes of the Hamas leadership, do not deserve to suffer the consequences of that leadership. There is no such thing as collective guilt. 

What does the Gaza Constitution say about elections?

[The Real timschochet 6,843]

3 minutes ago, Strike said:

What does the Gaza Constitution say about elections?

I had to look it up. It’s supposed to be every 4 years. Both Al Fatah and Hamas have ignored this. 

[Strike 5,590]

7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I had to look it up. It’s supposed to be every 4 years. Both Al Fatah and Hamas have ignored this. 

Link?

[TimHauck 2,908]

53 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

So, what are you saying?

That there are videos of shots being fired in the direction of aid seekers that don’t show who’s doing the shooting 

[jerryskids 6,829]

10 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

That there are videos of shots being fired in the direction of aid seekers that don’t show who’s doing the shooting 

"In the direction of".  Like, "toward".  But not "at."  Your gaslighting media words it that way.  Like the shooting of the dunes I mentioned.

Your earlier post implied that there were videos of innocent Palestinians getting shot, just not who was shooting.  Apparently not.  Enjoy your gaslighting.   

[TimHauck 2,908]

9 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

"In the direction of".  Like, "toward".  But not "at."  Your gaslighting media words it that way.  Like the shooting of the dunes I mentioned.

Your earlier post implied that there were videos of innocent Palestinians getting shot, just not who was shooting.  Apparently not.  Enjoy your gaslighting.   

We’ve already had this semantics argument. I believe you at least acknowledged they fired “warning shots.”   Even if that’s all they were, don’t you think that if you on multiple occasions fire “warning shots” at a huge crowd of people at some point someone is going to get hit?

[The Real timschochet 6,843]

1 hour ago, Strike said:

Link?

I don’t know how to link AI. Google “how often are elections in the Palestine Basic Law”? 

[jerryskids 6,829]

58 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

We’ve already had this semantics argument. I believe you at least acknowledged they fired “warning shots.”   Even if that’s all they were, don’t you think that if you on multiple occasions fire “warning shots” at a huge crowd of people at some point someone is going to get hit?

Maybe.  War crimes!  1/3 culpability!

[Strike 5,590]

38 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t know how to link AI. Google “how often are elections in the Palestine Basic Law”? 

You need to stop relying on AI.  It is extremely flawed.  Have you any idea how many lawyers have been sanctioned for using AI in briefs and finding out the AI literally made up cases?  Judges don't take kindly to made up case law.  AI is NOT all that people think it is.

[TimHauck 2,908]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

Maybe.  War crimes!  1/3 culpability!

And you call me the gaslighter.  Fraud.

[TimHauck 2,908]

Yes Jerry I know there are other Green Berets who are claiming this guy is a liar, I’ve seen the tweets, but this was an interesting interview.  It’s not just anonymous whistleblowers anymore.

 

[The Real timschochet 6,843]

56 minutes ago, Strike said:

You need to stop relying on AI.  It is extremely flawed.  Have you any idea how many lawyers have been sanctioned for using AI in briefs and finding out the AI literally made up cases?  Judges don't take kindly to made up case law.  AI is NOT all that people think it is.

What is your point? Are you trying to claim that Hamas’ government is legitimate after 20 years of no elections? That would be very naive of you. 

[TimHauck 2,908]

Same guy in the video I posted above was on Tucker as well.  Haven’t listened to that one yet

 

 

[Strike 5,590]

32 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

What is your point? Are you trying to claim that Hamas’ government is legitimate after 20 years of no elections? That would be very naive of you. 

I'm asking you to provide legitimate evidence of an assertion you made.  I haven't passed judgment on the assertion but I have told you that I don't believe your assertions without evidence because you just make stuff up.  And if your only evidence is an AI summary, and last time I checked even Google doesn't assert that their AI is reliable, then you have no evidence at all 

[TimHauck 2,908]

4 minutes ago, Strike said:

I'm asking you to provide legitimate evidence of an assertion you made.  I haven't passed judgment on the assertion but I have told you that I don't believe your assertions without evidence because you just make stuff up.  And if your only evidence is an AI summary, and last time I checked even Google doesn't assert that their AI is reliable, then you have no evidence at all 

So are you saying when you wrote the below, you didn’t already know the answer to your question?

3 hours ago, Strike said:

What does the Gaza Constitution say about elections?

 

[Strike 5,590]

6 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

So are you saying when you wrote the below, you didn’t already know the answer to your question?

 

I have no idea.  Do they even have a constitution?  You and the other Tim are the ones asserting that Hamas is not the legitimate government in Gaza, which I find curious since no one in the international community has made that assertion and they would probably know better than any of us.  So I'm asking you guys to support that assertion with something credible.  In my research all I seem to find is that they seem to have elections very rarely there and they like to postpone them a lot.  But I haven't dug that much in to it because it doesn't really matter to me.  It seems to matter to you though.

[TimHauck 2,908]

1 hour ago, Strike said:

I have no idea.  Do they even have a constitution?  You and the other Tim are the ones asserting that Hamas is not the legitimate government in Gaza, which I find curious since no one in the international community has made that assertion and they would probably know better than any of us.  So I'm asking you guys to support that assertion with something credible.  In my research all I seem to find is that they seem to have elections very rarely there and they like to postpone them a lot.  But I haven't dug that much in to it because it doesn't really matter to me.  It seems to matter to you though.

I’m not the one who keeps repeating the “bUt HaMaS wAs ElEcTeD!” line.

Maybe they’re still “legitimate,” but the phrase that I took issue with was calling them “duly elected” despite most people that live there not even being alive the last time they won an election.  I don’t know how often they’re supposed to have elections either.  Surely it’s more often than 20 years though.

[Strike 5,590]

6 hours ago, TimHauck said:

I’m not the one who keeps repeating the “bUt HaMaS wAs ElEcTeD!” line.

Maybe they’re still “legitimate,” but the phrase that I took issue with was calling them “duly elected” despite most people that live there not even being alive the last time they won an election.  I don’t know how often they’re supposed to have elections either.  Surely it’s more often than 20 years though.

Why do you say that?  What do you base that 20 year timeframe on?  The little bit of research I've done suggests elections are very random there and often postponed.  I don't know what, if any, laws they have regarding elections.  Your stance seems to be based on American ideals but not every place is America.  Is Kim Jong Un (sp) the legitimate leader of N. Korea?  I would say yes despite it being a very ugly situation over there.  But that seems to be how their government is set up.  But Hamas was duly elected and until you show me some proof that they're violating some law regarding holding elections, they're the legitimate government there.  Regardless of your personal, emotion filled FEELINGS.

[jerryskids 6,829]

10 hours ago, TimHauck said:

And you call me the gaslighter.  Fraud.

Goodness no, you aren't the gaslighter.  You are a gaslightEE.  The media is gaslighting you with very specific words so that you will infer exactly what you are inferring.  And you can't drink it up fast enough, because it fits your narrative.

It's funny, in other areas like say a wife-beating illegal alien Maryland man, you are quite insistent that there be incontrovertible evidence that he has gang ties.  But here, you've gone from DropDeadStupid.com to now Tucker Carlson.  Tucker has Qatari d1ck so far up his ass it's coming out his mouth.  

This topic has broken you.  I'm sorry for my contribution to that.   

[TimHauck 2,908]

29 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Goodness no, you aren't the gaslighter.  You are a gaslightEE.  The media is gaslighting you with very specific words so that you will infer exactly what you are inferring.  And you can't drink it up fast enough, because it fits your narrative.

It's funny, in other areas like say a wife-beating illegal alien Maryland man, you are quite insistent that there be incontrovertible evidence that he has gang ties.  But here, you've gone from DropDeadStupid.com to now Tucker Carlson.  Tucker has Qatari d1ck so far up his ass it's coming out his mouth.  

This topic has broken you.  I'm sorry for my contribution to that.   

My gaslighting comment was mostly inspired by you saying “1/3 culpability” in our conversation about reports of aid seekers being shot.  You know damn well the “1/3 culpability” opinion was only about the state of food in Gaza.

The only “evidence” Abrego Garcia is in a gang is hearsay from criminals, some of which are being offered deals for their cooperation.  The evidence of aid seekers being shot is far better than the evidence Abrego Garcia is in a gang, be serious.

[Strike 5,590]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

 

The only “evidence” Abrego Garcia is in a gang is hearsay from criminals, some of which are being offered deals for their cooperation.  The evidence of aid seekers being shot is far better than the evidence Abrego Garcia is in a gang, be serious.

Not that it has anything to do with this thread but whatever evidence there is about his gang affiliation was enough for a judge to declare it so.  

[jerryskids 6,829]

 

[TimHauck 2,908]

7 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

 

lol at you saying I believe propaganda.  On the topic of lying, this Yakoby guy is a proven liar.   I figured you’d at least post the tweets from “Green Beret Nap Time,” Yakoby is weaksauce.

[jerryskids 6,829]

2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

lol at you saying I believe propaganda.  On the topic of lying, this Yakoby guy is a proven liar.   I figured you’d at least post the tweets from “Green Beret Nap Time,” Yakoby is weaksauce.

Is he wrong?

[Strike 5,590]

2 hours ago, Strike said:

Why do you say that?  What do you base that 20 year timeframe on?  The little bit of research I've done suggests elections are very random there and often postponed.  I don't know what, if any, laws they have regarding elections.  Your stance seems to be based on American ideals but not every place is America.  Is Kim Jong Un (sp) the legitimate leader of N. Korea?  I would say yes despite it being a very ugly situation over there.  But that seems to be how their government is set up.  But Hamas was duly elected and until you show me some proof that they're violating some law regarding holding elections, they're the legitimate government there.  Regardless of your personal, emotion filled FEELINGS.

I'll take silence from the Tim's as them acknowledging they have no proof to support their assertion that Hamas is not the legitimate, duly elected government of Gaza.  

[TimHauck 2,908]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

Is he wrong?

I don’t know.  If you watched the Breaking Points interview you’d see he responded to all of the criticisms.

[MDC 7,492]

President Donald Trump on Monday said he will work with European allies to “set up food centers” in Gaza, disagreeing with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s assessment that there is “no starvation” in the war-torn strip.

“Based on television, … those children look very hungry,” Trump said. “But we’re giving a lot of money and a lot of food, and other nations are now stepping up.”

Trump later added: “Some of those kids are — that’s real starvation stuff.”

Good for him saying it.  

[The Real timschochet 6,843]

2 hours ago, Strike said:

Is Kim Jong Un (sp) the legitimate leader of N. Korea?  I would say yes 

Demonstrating your utter lack of seriousness and credibility. 
But cheer up: Dennis Rodman agrees with you. And Donald Trump. 

[Strike 5,590]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Demonstrating your utter lack of seriousness and credibility. 
But cheer up: Dennis Rodman agrees with you. And Donald Trump. 

And the world.

[The Real timschochet 6,843]

38 minutes ago, Strike said:

I'll take silence from the Tim's as them acknowledging they have no proof to support their assertion that Hamas is not the legitimate, duly elected government of Gaza.  

No take it as being flabbergasted that you would make the argument. 

There is no legitimate government on Earth that is over 20 years old without an election. Legitimacy requires periodic elections, at MOST every 6 years or so (depending on the system, whether it’s a republic or parliamentary democracy.) 

We are forced to work with, and recognize, many dictatorship countries. But that doesn’t make them legitimate. If their citizens are unable to express themselves politically through periodic free elections, they are not. 

[Strike 5,590]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

No take it as being flabbergasted that you would make the argument. 

There is no legitimate government on Earth that is over 20 years old without an election. Legitimacy requires periodic elections, at MOST every 6 years or so (depending on the system, whether it’s a republic or parliamentary democracy.) 

We are forced to work with, and recognize, many dictatorship countries. But that doesn’t make them legitimate. If their citizens are unable to express themselves politically through periodic free elections, they are not. 

You don't get to make the rules pal.

[The Real timschochet 6,843]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

And the world.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident”- what truths? What does that mean? Does it mean anything to you? Perhaps you should consider self-deporting. 

[The Real timschochet 6,843]

Just now, Strike said:

You don't get to make the rules pal.

Don't need to. Our founding fathers already did that.