The Real timschochet 6,951 Posted Sunday at 04:00 PM 3 hours ago, Ron_Artest said: For 3 years now you've been saying how Ukraine is running out of bodies and they can't Outlast Russia. You've been proven wrong. Weapons, Russian sanctions, strong coalition, stop aggression. If Trump led this he would get the nobel prize. Instead he chose to partner with Putin, the aggressor. Losing strategy. Exactly. This same dude predicted Ukraine would fall in a few weeks. He and the rest of these idiots continue, against all evidence, to assume Russia is invincible. Russia has lost a million men! And then they act like the only alternative to giving up is to invade ourselves. Continue to support Ukraine. Put heavy sanctions on Russia. Continue to isolate Putin. Eventually, sooner rather than later, he will come to the table willing to make a real deal. What’s happening now is terrible, stupid, unnecessary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,951 Posted Sunday at 04:07 PM 11 minutes ago, Sandy Loam said: It is our problem because a Russian takeover of Ukraine would create all kinds of worldwide instability. Inflation exploded when Russia invaded Ukraine, and MAGAs whined and blamed Biden without doing a deeper dive into supply and demand. They's have something a lot bigger to whine about if Russia conquered Ukraine. The kind of nationalism and isolationism that MAGAs want has proven to be a bad thing in the past, time and time again. It didn't work prior to our entry into World War I, and it didn't work prior to our entry into World War II. MAGAs believe the war wouldn't have happened under Trump, and maybe it wouldn't have but not for the reasons they think. Trump caving into Putin underscores why it wouldn't have happened, because Trump is a puzzy when it comes to Putin and would have been working in Russia's best interests, like he's doing now. Putin is a lying, ruthless dictator who has caused millions of deaths in Ukraine. Trump wants Russia to keep what it has occupied and for Ukraine to give up unoccupied territory. Meanwhile, Russia concedes nothing. This is weak, shiit leadership. Trump not following through on his big, bad consequences threat without a ceasefire just shows you what a Putin bootlicker he is, and now our longtime allies hate us. All of this is true. But there’s actually more as well. American honor is at stake. When Ukraine was liberated from the Soviet Union they had nuclear weapons. We, the United States, convinced them to give them up in the name of nuclear disarmament. They were concerned naturally that they might be invaded in the future and we promised them that if that ever happened we would come to their aid. Every President since Clinton reiterated this pledge including Trump during his first term (though Trump infamously attempted to blackmail Ukraine- the reason for his first impeachment.) In any event we pledged to help Ukraine. It’s another reason we care about it. Not that honor will mean anything to the guy you replied to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,533 Posted Sunday at 04:14 PM Trump should give him some more Uranium. Was cool when Obama did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,951 Posted Sunday at 04:16 PM 1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said: Trump should give him some more Uranium. Was cool when Obama did. I missed your drivel Hardcore. Where you been? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HellToupee 1,870 Posted Sunday at 04:18 PM 1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said: I missed your drivel Hardcore. Where you been? Is this the word of the day? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,533 Posted Sunday at 04:20 PM 1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said: I missed your facts Hardcore. Where you been? Observing. How come you didn’t have anything to say about those poor kids killed by the illegal alien drunk driver in Wisconsin? You don’t care about them? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 3,301 Posted Sunday at 04:20 PM 6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: All of this is true. But there’s actually more as well. American honor is at stake. When Ukraine was liberated from the Soviet Union they had nuclear weapons. We, the United States, convinced them to give them up in the name of nuclear disarmament. They were concerned naturally that they might be invaded in the future and we promised them that if that ever happened we would come to their aid. Every President since Clinton reiterated this pledge including Trump during his first term (though Trump infamously attempted to blackmail Ukraine- the reason for his first impeachment.) In any event we pledged to help Ukraine. It’s another reason we care about it. Not that honor will mean anything to the guy you replied to. Ukraine did give up their nukes but there’s a bit more to this from what I have read. They lacked control of them, they were aging and they were worried about how to support them, they received financial benefits, they received materials to start nuclear power plants, etc. This doesn’t mean the West didn’t screw them to some extent when Putin came sniffing around but we shouldn’t overlook they made a good deal when they gave up the nukes that went beyond just security. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy Loam 218 Posted Sunday at 04:21 PM 7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: All of this is true. But there’s actually more as well. American honor is at stake. When Ukraine was liberated from the Soviet Union they had nuclear weapons. We, the United States, convinced them to give them up in the name of nuclear disarmament. They were concerned naturally that they might be invaded in the future and we promised them that if that ever happened we would come to their aid. Every President since Clinton reiterated this pledge including Trump during his first term (though Trump infamously attempted to blackmail Ukraine- the reason for his first impeachment.) In any event we pledged to help Ukraine. It’s another reason we care about it. Not that honor will mean anything to the guy you replied to. Like a flock of birds flitting from one direction to another based on what the lead bird is doing, MAGAs just blindly and without question follow Trump. They were trumpeting him being a badass after the news conference with Putin, despite him offering up nothing more than calling the meeting productive, even though he didn't get the ceasefire he boldly said he was going there to get, and there would be consequences if he didn't get it. As it turns out, he chickened out and came out of there looking weak, with zero Russian concessions and Ukraine being asked to give up even more land. Have we ever had a president this weak? Here's a list from a simple Google search, not including this blatant act of weakness with Putin: Despite the subjective nature of these assessments, some presidents consistently appear in rankings of the weakest or least effective: James Buchanan: Frequently cited as one of the worst presidents, particularly for his failure to effectively address the growing sectional crisis that led to the Civil War. Andrew Johnson: Often criticized for his handling of Reconstruction, particularly his clashes with Congress and opposition to federally guaranteed rights for African Americans. Franklin Pierce: Accused of failing to prevent the country from drifting toward the Civil War. Warren G. Harding: His administration was plagued by corruption scandals, most notably the Teapot Dome scandal. Donald Trump: In recent surveys of scholars, Trump has been ranked as the lowest-performing president, with criticisms spanning from his approach to foreign policy to his impact on democratic norms and institutions. Some of these scholars highlight his disregard for political and institutional norms. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy Loam 218 Posted Sunday at 04:30 PM Trump staffers terrified with what they saw at the Putin meeting. https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/msnbc-host-says-karoline-leavitt-044920313.html Quote “A lot of the press corps that was there, they reported in the minutes and hours after the presser that they saw members of the administration, like Karoline Leavitt, look ashen, almost frightened after what they had seen behind closed doors. What did that indicate to you?” Hylton asked McFaul. ... He continued, ”But that suggests to me that this was a bigger disaster than they’re letting on. To your point, they’re trying to spin it, although they’re not even trying to spin it. That’s a really interesting thing.” ”When I worked at the White House and we would have meetings like this, I was the SAO—the senior administration official—that would call up journalists, that would call The New York Times to say, ‘This is what was discussed,’ to push it this way. They’re not even attempting to do that because they know they don’t have anything to work with.” 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron_Artest 1,673 Posted Sunday at 04:32 PM 2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: Exactly. This same dude predicted Ukraine would fall in a few weeks. He and the rest of these idiots continue, against all evidence, to assume Russia is invincible. Russia has lost a million men! And then they act like the only alternative to giving up is to invade ourselves. Continue to support Ukraine. Put heavy sanctions on Russia. Continue to isolate Putin. Eventually, sooner rather than later, he will come to the table willing to make a real deal. What’s happening now is terrible, stupid, unnecessary. Smart people: trump is Putins puppet. Maga: no he's not, Putin is scared of trump Told you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 3,301 Posted Sunday at 04:36 PM 32 minutes ago, Sandy Loam said: A NATO presence in Ukraine without that country necessarily joining NATO would be the only guarantee here, as far as I'm concerned. Agreements with Russia on paper are useless. When Ukraine broke from the Soviet Union, it agreed to give up nukes in exchange for Russia not attacking it, and in that agreement we agreed to help Ukraine in the event that Russia broke the agreement, which it did in 2014 with the takeover of Crimea and again in 2022 with this invasion. I would like to see Russia agree to some reparations here as well. The nukes deal wasn’t exactly as you described from what I have read. It was quite a bit more nuanced than that. But yeah I agree, whatever the terms are or how the relationship is described the West has to be involved in a manner that Russia cannot do this again. That’s a security agreement that is real and not just on paper. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,533 Posted Sunday at 04:36 PM Maybe the Russians should have given the Clintons more money? May have been able to avoid the whole mess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seafoam1 3,188 Posted Sunday at 04:37 PM 3 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said: Smart people: trump is Putins puppet. Maga: no he's not, Putin is scared of trump Told you. Gutternuts pretending he's smart. He hasn't made a smart comment his whole life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HellToupee 1,870 Posted Sunday at 05:24 PM 53 minutes ago, Sandy Loam said: Trump staffers terrified with what they saw at the Putin meeting. https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/msnbc-host-says-karoline-leavitt-044920313.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 3,301 Posted Sunday at 05:38 PM 1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said: Maybe the Russians should have given the Clintons more money? May have been able to avoid the whole mess. You worried about Russian money influencing politicians You should look into that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,951 Posted Sunday at 05:46 PM 1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said: Observing. How come you didn’t have anything to say about those poor kids killed by the illegal alien drunk driver in Wisconsin? You don’t care about them? Because every tragic anecdote is just that- an anecdote. I’ve tried countless times to point out that, based on every study that’s ever been done of this issue, undocumented immigrants are far LESS likely to commit violent crimes than people born here. But it falls on deaf ears. You guys don’t care what the statistics show. Instead you blame me. So what is the point of me responding? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,533 Posted Sunday at 05:50 PM 4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: Because every tragic anecdote is just that- an anecdote. I’ve tried countless times to point out that, based on every study that’s ever been done of this issue, undocumented immigrants are far LESS likely to commit violent crimes than people born here. But it falls on deaf ears. You guys don’t care what the statistics show. Instead you blame me. So what is the point of me responding? Those kids would be alive right now if that illegal had been deported. Imagine that was your kids and how you would feel? Are you capable? Completely preventable. But your side needs money and house seats. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,951 Posted Sunday at 05:51 PM Now being reported that Russia will agree to a “NATO like security agreement for Ukraine” without Ukraine being part of NATO. Well of course they will. Because it’s meaningless. If Russia gets the entire Donbas then Ukraine becomes a rump state just like Czechoslovakia was after giving up the Sudetenland. Russia will simply wait, perhaps a year, perhaps 5 years, and then occupy the rest of Ukraine, and the west won’t lift a finger. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HellToupee 1,870 Posted Sunday at 05:53 PM 6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: Because every tragic anecdote is just that- an anecdote. I’ve tried countless times to point out that, based on every study that’s ever been done of this issue, undocumented immigrants are far LESS likely to commit violent crimes than people born here. But it falls on deaf ears. You guys don’t care what the statistics show. Instead you blame me. So what is the point of me responding? I’m sure the families are comforted knowing it’s just an anecdote. FFS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tree of Knowledge 1,925 Posted Sunday at 05:54 PM Sounds like peace is imminent. TDS CREW: ——> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,951 Posted Sunday at 05:54 PM 1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said: Those kids would be alive right now if that illegal had been deported. Imagine that was your kids and how you would feel? Are you capable? Completely preventable. But your side needs money and house seats. You need to stop with the constant “if those were your kids”. If those were my kids I’d be in agony, but hopefully my emotions wouldn’t turn me into a collectivist bigot. My views on this subject are based on my personal convictions about right and wrong, not on political calculations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,951 Posted Sunday at 05:55 PM 1 minute ago, HellToupee said: I’m sure the families are comforted knowing it’s just an anecdote. FFS I don’t think the families care about what either of us think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,533 Posted Sunday at 06:10 PM 13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: You need to stop with the constant “if those were your kids”. If those were my kids I’d be in agony, but hopefully my emotions wouldn’t turn me into a collectivist bigot. My views on this subject are based on my personal convictions about right and wrong, not on political calculations. Tell me this, you seem really well versed on the subject and I’m sure have done the required research before coming to your conclusion: How do we know the immigration status of criminals? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,533 Posted Sunday at 06:11 PM 16 minutes ago, HellToupee said: I’m sure the families are comforted knowing it’s just an anecdote. FFS Empathy isn’t a requirement to be a decent person in liberal circles. It is everywhere else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron_Artest 1,673 Posted Sunday at 06:14 PM 1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said: Empathy isn’t a requirement to be a decent person in liberal circles. It is everywhere else. Zero self awareness. Go back on vacation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,951 Posted Sunday at 06:16 PM 5 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: Tell me this, you seem really well versed on the subject and I’m sure have done the required research before coming to your conclusion: How do we know the immigration status of criminals? No Im done arguing this. You know my views already. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,555 Posted Sunday at 06:18 PM 1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said: No Im done arguing this. You know my views already. Go away for good. Everyone knows your views on everything. Save the hot air. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,951 Posted Sunday at 06:22 PM Just now, Horseman said: Go away for good. Everyone knows your views on everything. Save the hot air. Since: 1.80-90% of your posts are either directed to me or about me, and 2. This forum seems to dominate most of your time (which seems odd for a multi-millionaire with a hot wife as you keep informing us) I feel that I’m contributing to preventing the further deterioration of your mental health by sticking around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 3,301 Posted Sunday at 06:22 PM 28 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: Now being reported that Russia will agree to a “NATO like security agreement for Ukraine” without Ukraine being part of NATO. Well of course they will. Because it’s meaningless. If Russia gets the entire Donbas then Ukraine becomes a rump state just like Czechoslovakia was after giving up the Sudetenland. Russia will simply wait, perhaps a year, perhaps 5 years, and then occupy the rest of Ukraine, and the west won’t lift a finger. This is why a big tough guy negotiator like we all know Trump is says Ukraine is in NATO or has Article 5 protections in this deal where Ukraine is giving land. Otherwise it’s just a surrender and the past few years were a complete waste of lives and money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,533 Posted Sunday at 06:23 PM 4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: No Im done arguing this. You know my views already. You can’t tell us how we document the immigration status of criminals, yet you can tell us what the pct is? Thats not very scientific. For the rest of you watching at home, we can’t. Sanctuary cities and others do not ask the immigration status of criminals. So the whole stat Tim cites is based on red states, which we all know are less crime ridden. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,951 Posted Sunday at 06:26 PM 2 minutes ago, thegeneral said: This is why a big tough guy negotiator like we all know Trump is says Ukraine is in NATO or has Article 5 protections in this deal where Ukraine is giving land. Otherwise it’s just a surrender and the past few years were a complete waste of lives and money. I know you’re in favor of a land for security deal but are you willing to let Putin have land in Donbas he was never able to take militarily? That should be a nonstarter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,555 Posted Sunday at 06:26 PM 2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: Since: 1.80-90% of your posts are either directed to me or about me, and 2. This forum seems to dominate most of your time (which seems odd for a multi-millionaire with a hot wife as you keep informing us) I feel that I’m contributing to preventing the further deterioration of your mental health by sticking around. What are 2 things that are demonstrably false? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 3,301 Posted Sunday at 06:29 PM 3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: I know you’re in favor of a land for security deal but are you willing to let Putin have land in Donbas he was never able to take militarily? That should be a nonstarter. If it means Ukraine gets Article 5 like assurances then I think this is a good deal for Ukraine. The alternative is Trump dumps the aide and they get grind down further. It sucks but it is better than they have now. ETA: I don’t think Ukraine is going to get this. I don’t see why this isn’t being discussed as an outcome of this, but it’s not really being brought up much from what I see…they are screwed is the reality I am seeing, Such a tremendous and sad waste of the past few years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 2,096 Posted Sunday at 06:31 PM 6 minutes ago, thegeneral said: Otherwise it’s just a surrender and the past few years were a complete waste of lives and money. Zelensky has to give up something, don't you agree? Unless you bring the fight to Moscow, there's no chance for Zelensky to walk away without giving up land. He's already lost it. Putin isn't walking away, no matter what you want Trump to threaten them with. Let Europe sort it out, it's not our fight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 3,301 Posted Sunday at 06:38 PM 3 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said: Zelensky has to give up something, don't you agree? Unless you bring the fight to Moscow, there's no chance for Zelensky to walk away without giving up land. He's already lost it. Putin isn't walking away, no matter what you want Trump to threaten them with. Let Europe sort it out, it's not our fight. He’s giving up like 20% of his country. That’s plenty. A big tough guy like Trump, who everyone knows Putin takes very seriously and is scared of, can say we are going to give Ukraine more weapons if you don’t agree to this. You know like he said when he was a candidate and was saying he could end it in one day. Presumably this stuff he said was supposed to be part of that process, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 2,096 Posted Sunday at 06:40 PM Just now, thegeneral said: give Ukraine more weapons if you don’t agree to this. Ok, I'm fine with that. Who's paying? You, me??? Funding a defensive war is not going to work. Especially when the one side has already lost ground. They're out maned Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seafoam1 3,188 Posted Sunday at 06:54 PM 11 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said: Ok, I'm fine with that. Who's paying? You, me??? Funding a defensive war is not going to work. Especially when the one side has already lost ground. They're out maned The US keeping this war ongoing by giving Ukraine endless aid like creepy Joe did would be the biggest failure move for such a great Trump administration. Let them fight their own wars but offer assistance in diplomacy. It's all they can do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 2,096 Posted Sunday at 06:58 PM 1 minute ago, seafoam1 said: The US keeping this war ongoing by giving Ukraine endless aid like creepy Joe did would be the biggest failure move for such a great Trump administration. Let them fight their own wars but offer assistance in diplomacy. It's all they can do. Joe Briben should NEVER OF LET PUTIN INVADE UKRAINE. @thegeneral Liberals stood by and didn't say a word as tanks were barreling across the Ukrainian border. They were too worried about killing babies and breeding Trannies. Now that Trump is in office it's his fault somehow? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seafoam1 3,188 Posted Sunday at 07:01 PM 2 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said: Joe Briben should NEVER OF LET PUTIN INVADE UKRAINE. @thegeneral Liberals stood by and didn't say a word as tanks were barreling across the Ukrainian border. They were too worried about killing babies and breeding Trannies. Now that Trump is in office it's his fault somehow? Even Putin is laughing at the liberals in this country. He'll probably send them all Christmas cards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 2,096 Posted Sunday at 07:03 PM Just now, seafoam1 said: Even Putin is laughing at the liberals in this country. Putin even said that The Liberals let him invade Ukraine. @thegeneral will tell you otherwise. Briben did nothing as Putin was amassing troops on the Ukrainian border. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites