ICE father of 2 children

[Fireballer 2,675]

3 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

Follow the law

You remind me of Tim in the Tyreek Hill thread…next to no awareness of how police procedure works.  

[nobody 2,853]

5 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

Follow the law

So if it went down like they said and evidence of his injuries suggests, then you're good with it.  Why are you dying on the hill that it's murder when there isn't evidence to support that... yet at least?

[Strike 5,937]

6 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

Follow the law

If he didn't he'll be held accountable.  Now do illegal aliens who try to run them over.  

[nobody 2,853]

3 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

You remind me of Tim in the Tyreek Hill thread…next to no awareness of how police procedure works.  

Maybe he doesn't realize using a car as a weapon justifies deadly force. 

Weird that he's prosecuting the officer so hard with so little evidence.

[Fireballer 2,675]

8 minutes ago, nobody said:

 

Weird that he's prosecuting the officer so hard with so little evidence.

TDS

[Maximum Overkill 2,343]

2 hours ago, Ron_Artest said:

So in order to stop from being "dragged", he shoots the guy, as opposed to just letting go.

Take the L. You posted more fake news, hate and political propaganda. You lost again. 

[Ron_Artest 2,054]

44 minutes ago, nobody said:

So if it went down like they said and evidence of his injuries suggests, then you're good with it.  Why are you dying on the hill that it's murder when there isn't evidence to support that... yet at least?

There is though.  He was shot and killed for trying to evade ICE.  And then ICE lied and said he was trying to run them over.  This should bother you.  It should bother everyone.  We don't want federal rent a cops going around shooting people.

[Fireballer 2,675]

6 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

There is though.  He was shot and killed for trying to evade ICE.  And then ICE lied and said he was trying to run them over.  This should bother you.  It should bother everyone.  We don't want federal rent a cops going around shooting people.

You say there’s enough evidence for a murder charge, but you avoid examining the legal nuance of the situation.  Just stay down. 

[Maximum Overkill 2,343]

14 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

He was shot and killed for trying to evade ICE. 

Fleeing, evading, obstruction and assault on a Federal Officer.

He got the death sentence 

[WhiteWonder 2,891]

7 hours ago, Ron_Artest said:

I assumed it was the one by the drivers side, but it's not on video.

You use the word assume a lot

[TimHauck 3,237]

1 hour ago, Fireballer said:

You remind me of Tim in the Tyreek Hill thread…next to no awareness of how police procedure works.  

The police in that incident made up laws that didn’t actually exist, remember?

[Fireballer 2,675]

8 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

You use the word assume a lot

It’s the cornerstone of the best legal arguments…

[Fireballer 2,675]

Just now, TimHauck said:

The police in that incident made up laws that didn’t actually exist, remember?

How was that police ride-along so you could get a clue?

[TimHauck 3,237]

1 minute ago, Fireballer said:

How was that police ride-along so you could get a clue?

I guess the Broadview police chief needs a to do a ride along to get a clue too, he says ICE is “creating a dangerous situation” and is not happy that they are exposing his officers to chemical agents.

https://www.newsweek.com/illinois-police-chief-ice-investigations-broadview-tear-gas-10807304

[Maximum Overkill 2,343]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

is not happy that they are exposing his officers to chemical agents.

Pvssies 

[nobody 2,853]

47 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

There is though.  He was shot and killed for trying to evade ICE.  And then ICE lied and said he was trying to run them over.  This should bother you.  It should bother everyone.  We don't want federal rent a cops going around shooting people.

What makes you think ICE lied?

[Ron_Artest 2,054]

24 minutes ago, nobody said:

What makes you think ICE lied?

Because they have a track record of lying and an incentive to lie.  I trust the video and eyewitnesses more than ICE.

[The Real timschochet 7,280]

24 minutes ago, nobody said:

What makes you think ICE lied?

While I have no idea if they lied in this instance, I believe that at this point in time the reasonable response of any thoughtful person is to begin with the assumption that any claim ICE makes is categorically false until they prove otherwise. 

[Maximum Overkill 2,343]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I have no idea if they lied in this instance

 

[nobody 2,853]

17 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

Because they have a track record of lying and an incentive to lie.  I trust the video and eyewitnesses more than ICE.

I didn't see the eyewitnesses.  What did they say?

[Ron_Artest 2,054]

Just now, nobody said:

I didn't see the eyewitnesses.  What did they say?

There's a whole video tim posted.  Basically what the video shows.  Dude backed up and tried to drive away, was shot.

[nobody 2,853]

18 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

While I have no idea if they lied in this instance, I believe that at this point in time the reasonable response of any thoughtful person is to begin with the assumption that any claim ICE makes is categorically false until they prove otherwise. 

That's illogical and harmful to your own perspective.  You shouldn't assume it's false.  You should assume it isn't necessarily true.  Because what happens when some ICE agent whistle blower eventually comes out?  You just said by default anything they say is false when we all know you would latch on to that like white on rice.

 

[nobody 2,853]

1 minute ago, Ron_Artest said:

There's a whole video tim posted.  Basically what the video shows.  Dude backed up and tried to drive away, was shot.

So then if that's all that happened, how did the guy's pants and leg get cut up?

[nobody 2,853]

I guess I have to watch this dumb video.  I'll be right back.

[Ron_Artest 2,054]

1 minute ago, nobody said:

So then if that's all that happened, how did the guy's pants and leg get cut up?

I have no idea.  Guess the only explanation is he was rammed and dragged.

[seafoam1 3,352]

12 hours ago, Ron_Artest said:

Earlier that morning, Villegas Gonzalez, 38, had been fatally shot by a U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent shortly after dropping his children off at a school and daycare in the suburb of Franklin Park. The agents were attempting to arrest him as part of a massive immigration sweep launched by U.S. President Donald Trump. Villegas Gonzalez was the Chicago crackdown's first casualty.

Chicago ICE crackdown's first casualty, a father of two, had built a quiet life in the US | Reuters https://share.google/TDnXGJsjbf7oy71hI

First of what will be many unfortunately.

Too bad he didn't follow the laws of this country. Even bad guys get girls pregnant. Just look at creepy Joe.  

[Strike 5,937]

Remember when all these idiot libs thought ICE was running around on horseback and whipping illegals at the border?   Good times!!!

[TimHauck 3,237]

It wasn’t murder.  But there’s a middle ground between murder and justified shooting that this could be.

[Ron_Artest 2,054]

2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

It wasn’t murder.  But there’s a middle ground between murder and justified shooting that this could be.

Manslaughter 

[nobody 2,853]

Ok

First thing the ICE agent says is he tried to run them over.  We can discount that statement under your sketicism policy.  I'm fine with that since he would say that no matter what.

They mention injuries to the knee and elbow.  That is physical evidence some sort of injury occurred at least. 

Eyewitness clearly didn't see much.  He said that they "tried to get him or whatever, and he started backing up."  I would interpret that as they approached the vehicle to physically detain him and while that was happening, the driver backed up.  Okay.  That all jives.  Got the number of shots wrong.  too bad he clearly is an absolute idiot. 

Car was clearly going reasonably fast given the damage but based on the idiot's account, that had to have happened after the car was free of the agents.  Probably 15-20ish mph.

The ICE agents were clearly trying to save his life with emergency medical, so that would indicate they weren't cold blooded killers out to take out some illegals.

The garage cam footage or whatever that was clearly shows the ICE agent leaning in the window, so backing up while they are doing that can obviously be quite dangerous and be seen as using the car as a weapon.  Although we can't see the driver side agent, so it's pretty easy to envision that guy was still attached to the vehicle which is probably how he scraped up his body.

So the video is pretty worthless except that it showed how closely engaged the agents were to the car, but it doesn't show anything conclusive. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,500]

2 hours ago, Strike said:

If he didn't he'll be held accountable.  Now do illegal aliens who try to run them over.  

Hell. Do illegal aliens being here.  Period 

[nobody 2,853]

I will say this.  Saying, "he tried to run us over" seems like a mischaracterization.  He clearly was trying to flee.  I don't think he intended to run people over.

Justified shooting from what I can tell.  You don't start driving when officers are trying to detain you and at least one is leaning in your window. 

[nobody 2,853]

I asked chatGPT what constitutes using a vehicle as a weapon.... This case seems to be 3 for 3.

Typical legal elements prosecutors look for

1. Act (what happened) — the vehicle was used in a way that caused or threatened harm (e.g., deliberately driving into someone, ramming a crowd, or using a car to strike a person or property). 

2. Result — bodily injury or death (or a grave risk of such). Some statutes require “great bodily injury” to elevate the charge.

3. Mental state (mens rea) — crucial. Charges are much more serious when the act was intentional (attempted murder/murder) or reckless (depraved-heart murder or aggravated assault) versus negligent or accidental (vehicular manslaughter/culpable negligence).

 

Clearly threatened harm.

Actually resulted in bodily injury

Was clearly at least reckless

My chatGPT legal degree says this is airtight assault with a deadly weapon which makes the shooting justified.

[nobody 2,853]

Before I waste any more time on this dumb sh¡t.

Tim, GutterRon... was the Rittenhouse case self-defense or murder? 

[Ron_Artest 2,054]

3 minutes ago, nobody said:

Before I waste any more time on this dumb sh¡t.

Tim, GutterRon... was the Rittenhouse case self-defense or murder? 

Legally I thought it was self defense.  But we all know that douche went down there looking for a fight.

[WhiteWonder 2,891]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

While I have no idea if they lied in this instance, I believe that at this point in time the reasonable response of any thoughtful person is to begin with the assumption that any claim ICE makes is categorically false until they prove otherwise. 

Doesn’t sound like due process to me 

[jonnyutah 515]

I would like to thank ron for posting the video that exonerates the ICE officer.