Most likely never buy a house again.

[mmmmm...beer 820]

https://www.instagram.com/p/DK1-zSls1yO/?igsh=YTQ2OThsZ2YydXJv

This is why I'll rent for the rest of my life. Not worth it to buy any longer. Too expensive to just throw scads of money after interest.

I can rent the house for $3000 or "buy" it for $4800 (ie rent it from the bank).

Buying is good for kids as it forces savings. Though honestly... ave ror is 4%... So damned near any ETF worth it's salt crushes housing ROR by double to triple.

Not to mention.... All that interest... levies... doubling homeowners insurance, maintenance, repairs. Being locked in to that location forever. $10's of thousands to have some woman/dude in a leased Caddy have some intern take some pics and write a paragraph or two of your place.

Oh... Let's not forget she sits there while the title company has you sign 18 documents.

The "American Dream". A scam put forth by banks and realtors to get their money for nothing and their chicks for free.

Take that extra "savings" from renting and just throw it in a SP500 ETF like VOO or whatever. Averages a rate of return +12% since the 1950's.

[seafoam1 3,432]

21 minutes ago, mmmmm...beer said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/DK1-zSls1yO/?igsh=YTQ2OThsZ2YydXJv

This is why I'll rent for the rest of my life. Not worth it to buy any longer. Too expensive to just throw scads of money after interest.

I can rent the house for $3000 or "buy" it for $4800 (ie rent it from the bank).

Buying is good for kids as it forces savings. Though honestly... ave ror is 4%... So damned near any ETF worth it's salt crushes housing ROR by double to triple.

Not to mention.... All that interest... levies... doubling homeowners insurance, maintenance, repairs. Being locked in to that location forever. $10's of thousands to have some woman/dude in a leased Caddy have some intern take some pics and write a paragraph or two of your place.

Oh... Let's not forget she sits there while the title company has you sign 18 documents.

The "American Dream". A scam put forth by banks and realtors to get their money for nothing and their chicks for free.

Take that extra "savings" from renting and just throw it in a SP500 ETF like VOO or whatever. Averages a rate of return +12% since the 1950's.

Many here think that buying is status. They get what they get from their house. Can't depend upon it. I made 15% on my IRA and other investments over the past year. Been doing great for years. Making more than home investments, not having the unneeded costs of maintenance, and able to be flexible in moving like we have been doing over the last bunch of years. We go where we want to live, not having to be limited to one space. 

No debt, easy bills to pay, no worries about maintenance and space we don't need. Love it. And costs way less than a home we don't need and can focus on loving life. So nice. 

We've saved and made so much money by not having a 30 year mortgage, that in our early ages, we are done with the need to be dependent on work to live. 

 

[Gepetto 1,454]

Yeah Nebraska #5. We pay extremely high property taxes though.

[Bier Meister 1,751]

@mmmmm...beer

 

we will likely downsize and look to buy 2 properties:

I am looking around northern Italy and the other is still ambiguous (tropical locale).

 

coming from Northern California, this is very doable for us 

[mmmmm...beer 820]

Not to mention....

The roof leaks... The main sewer pipe is crushed.  The foundation cracks. I've owned 4 homes, had to replace the roof on 2.  Two had flooded basements.   Water heaters went out.  Replace decks... Etc... etc...Blah blah blah...

[mmmmm...beer 820]

6 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

@mmmmm...beer

 

we will likely downsize and look to buy 2 properties:

I am looking around northern Italy and the other is still ambiguous (tropical locale).

 

coming from Northern California, this is very doable for us 

That's cool man... I can see you guys doing that.  As we both see each other's Facebook adventures.

After living in Japan for this time, we do miss the States.  It's been a great adventure, but being the foreigner and not speaking Japanese gets old.

Plus... Man the EU looks like it's going the way of 3rd world sh!thole will all the mooslims rapering and looting their way across it.

Though... Italy seems to be getting pretty tired of it.

[mmmmm...beer 820]

12 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

Yeah Nebraska #5. We pay extremely high property taxes though.

WA States property taxes are pretty redic too.  Not to mention the gasoline taxes.  Still like $4/gallon there.  Gotta pay for those needle exchanges somehow.

[mmmmm...beer 820]

31 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Many here think that buying is status. They get what they get from their house. Can't depend upon it. I made 15% on my IRA and other investments over the past year. Been doing great for years. Making more than home investments, not having the unneeded costs of maintenance, and able to be flexible in moving like we have been doing over the last bunch of years. We go where we want to live, not having to be limited to one space. 

No debt, easy bills to pay, no worries about maintenance and space we don't need. Love it. And costs way less than a home we don't need and can focus on loving life. So nice. 

We've saved and made so much money by not having a 30 year mortgage, that in our early ages, we are done with the need to be dependent on work to live. 

 

Right... We have enough of a nest egg now, we don't need the forced savings.  Being mobile is worth more to me than sitting in one spot.

[seafoam1 3,432]

2 minutes ago, mmmmm...beer said:

Right... We have enough of a nest egg now, we don't need the forced savings.  Being mobile is worth more to me than sitting in one spot.

You and me both. My GF and I could buy a home right out. No mortgage. But why? The property taxes would cost more than our rent. And we lose nothing other than those taxes and home maintenance costs. Win-win. 

[thegeneral 3,616]

Owning a home is a long term deal. People getting obsessed about it and doing crazy mortgages would be not something I would advise.

I doubt I’ll eve rent again but will do VRBO / Airbnb type stuff for extended stays when I retire in various locations. 

[mmmmm...beer 820]

5 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

You and me both. My GF and I could buy a home right out. No mortgage. But why? The property taxes would cost more than our rent. And we lose nothing other than those taxes and home maintenance costs. Win-win. 

Right we're the same... and ...why on earth would you put all that capital into a non liquid "asset".  That takes quite a bit to maintain.... And really makes no money for you.

Every $100k can "on average" produce $12k a year sitting in the SP500.

[Ron_Artest 2,241]

There is something nice about being able to live in a house for as long as you want and being able to do whatever you want with it and/or yard.  I will never rent again.

[mmmmm...beer 820]

3 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Owning a home is a long term deal. People getting obsessed about it and doing crazy mortgages would be not something I would advise.

I doubt I’ll eve rent again but will do VRBO / Airbnb type stuff for extended stays when I retire in various locations. 

That's a fun plan... 

Much of what we end up doing will depend on where the kids end up.

[mmmmm...beer 820]

1 minute ago, Ron_Artest said:

There is something nice about being able to live in a house for as long as you want and being able to do whatever you want with it and/or yard.  I will never rent again.

That's really the only thing that's good about it.  Paint the walls... Knock that one down I stead.  Redoo those bathrooms.  Yup... done all that.  Don't care anymore.  Slap a favorite rug and wall art in the room and call it good.

[thegeneral 3,616]

1 minute ago, mmmmm...beer said:

That's a fun plan... 

Much of what we end up doing will depend on where the kids end up.

Yep. A month in Spain, Japan, a ski town or wherever. Can get a nice place for like 5k a month. Will always want to have my home base in US. Maybe do two trips like this a year until we don’t want to anymore.

[Ron_Artest 2,241]

2 minutes ago, mmmmm...beer said:

That's really the only thing that's good about it.  Paint the walls... Knock that one down I stead.  Redoo those bathrooms.  Yup... done all that.  Don't care anymore.  Slap a favorite rug and wall art in the room and call it good.

If you can afford it, it's a deal maker.

[Grace Under Pressure 171]

Gotta live somewhere. May as well own a $1.1m property with a 450K 3% mortgage, if it also means having privacy in a nice location. Even if it only returns 3% yoy. 

Paying a landlord, living in an apartment complex, having shared walls, living on a main road, having a shared parking lot, having fewer than three bathrooms. IDK, sure. Different strokes for different folks. 

[seafoam1 3,432]

9 minutes ago, mmmmm...beer said:

Right we're the same... and ...why on earth would you put all that capital into a non liquid "asset".  That takes quite a bit to maintain.... And really makes no money for you.

Every $100k can "on average" produce $12k a year sitting in the SP500.

[Mark Davis 427]

You may be right on the ETFs, but my houses and condos I've done for rental income have been a quite lucrative part of my investment portfolio.  The deals I regret are the ones I didn't buy, not the ones I did.  I sold my old home back in 2008 when I bought my current house, huge mistake to ever sell it.  I should have just rented it out and moved on rather than worrying about extinguishing the debt.  The rents would have carried the note.

[seafoam1 3,432]

8 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

There is something nice about being able to live in a house.

So being financially backwards as stuck in one spot is "nice".

If that's what you want, no one is making fun of you, but many of you all think it's the only "right way" to live. And that is small thinking. 

[Grace Under Pressure 171]

11 minutes ago, mmmmm...beer said:

That's a fun plan... 

Much of what we end up doing will depend on where the kids end up.

Kids really dictate a lot that’s for sure. 

[seafoam1 3,432]

6 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

You may be right on the ETFs, but my houses and condos I've done for rental income have been a quite lucrative part of my investment portfolio.  The deals I regret are the ones I didn't buy, not the ones I did.  I sold my old home back in 2008 when I bought my current house, huge mistake to ever sell it.  I should have just rented it out and moved on rather than worrying about extinguishing the debt.  The rents would have carried the note.

But you turned it into a business. Many of us have our lives and jobs that don't involve land and home management. 

This is mostly about people who are not involved in buying condos to rent out or sell. You know, people who are not interested in that for a lifestyle. 

[thegeneral 3,616]

13 minutes ago, mmmmm...beer said:

That's really the only thing that's good about it.  Paint the walls... Knock that one down I stead.  Redoo those bathrooms.  Yup... done all that.  Don't care anymore.  Slap a favorite rug and wall art in the room and call it good.

It’s nice having your biggest monthly payment go to something that builds equity. 

[seafoam1 3,432]

8 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

It’s nice having your biggest monthly payment go to something that builds equity. 

It's nice having a lot of that money that would be otherwise going to the unknown but rather in my control and going to things that are building me equity on the go. Equity can be built in many ways that are not stagnant and dictated by the current interest rates on home buying. Provides flexibility to living. 

[thegeneral 3,616]

3 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

It's nice having a lot of that money that would be going to the unknown in my control and going to things that are building me equity on the go. Equity can be built in many ways that are not stagnant and dictated by the current interest rates on home buying. Provides flexibility to living. 

A house is a good investment and provides plenty of flexibility. They are now pricing out people in many areas. I’ll be happy to rent mine out for a ridiculous amount. I’ll be a good slum lord.

[seafoam1 3,432]

Just now, thegeneral said:

A house is a good investment and provides plenty of flexibility. They are now pricing out people in many areas. I’ll be happy to rent mine out for a ridiculous amount. I’ll be a good slum lord.

You do you. I don't mind if people buy, rent, or manage properties. Whatever works for you. 

[mmmmm...beer 820]

I've had a couple rental homes with my Pops.  Not a fan.  I found it more of a pain in the ass.

But I have no qualms for folks that want to get income like that.  Shoot Pops has what... 3 or 4  6 -14 plexes at one time in the Baaken.

[mmmmm...beer 820]

24 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

A house is a good investment and provides plenty of flexibility. They are now pricing out people in many areas. I’ll be happy to rent mine out for a ridiculous amount. I’ll be a good slum lord.

I don't know that is a great investment for as much as you pay for interest on the front end and all the expense that goes with it.  I think the forced savings is more the real draw.

[thegeneral 3,616]

55 minutes ago, mmmmm...beer said:

I don't know that is a great investment for as much as you pay for interest on the front end and all the expense that goes with it.  I think the forced savings is more the real draw.

Every situation is different. You get some back on that interest on your taxes. You can make improvements and not have to move if they jack up rent. It’s your own place which is nice. The place will almost assuredly go up in value, dramatically so the past few decades. Lots of benefits.

[FrancieFootball 172]

2 hours ago, Ron_Artest said:

There is something nice about being able to live in a house for as long as you want and being able to do whatever you want with it and/or yard.  I will never rent again.

This. Plus, you're not just throwing money away every month. You're building equity in an appreciating asset, plus it's just about the biggest tax break you can get. 

Our house has almost doubled in value since we bought it, and it will be paid off in a few years. Then taxes and insurance will cost a fraction as much as what someone would pay for rent. In fact, our mortgage right now is less than the going rental rate for a house half the size.

[mmmmm...beer 820]

30 minutes ago, FrancieFootball said:

This. Plus, you're not just throwing money away every month. You're building equity in an appreciating asset, plus it's just about the biggest tax break you can get. 

Our house has almost doubled in value since we bought it, and it will be paid off in a few years. Then taxes and insurance will cost a fraction as much as what someone would pay for rent. In fact, our mortgage right now is less than the going rental rate for a house half the size.

Hoe is renting "throwing money away"?  I have a place to live with no hassles.

How much did you spend on your house, total cost?  How much did you pay in interest the last 30 years? 

Your house doubled... In almost 30 years?

I'm not trying to say you've done anything wrong.  I'm saying there is an alternative.

If Almost 30 years ago... You started renting.  And put the savings of buying/vs renting to include all maintenance, repairs, interest, levys, taxes... Etc... into the SP500?  Compounded almost 30 years.

Feel like you have an idea of what you think and can't see past that.  The "throwing money away" each month statement is a little bit of a tell.

Just a little math we're never shown.

 

[mmmmm...beer 820]

1 hour ago, thegeneral said:

Every situation is different. You get some back on that interest on your taxes. You can make improvements and not have to move if they jack up rent. It’s your own place which is nice. The place will almost assuredly go up in value, dramatically so the past few decades. Lots of benefits.

Yeah... If you itemize... Which honestly ain't that easy to beat the standard deduction for married couples anymore.

[FrancieFootball 172]

31 minutes ago, mmmmm...beer said:

Hoe is renting "throwing money away"?  I have a place to live with no hassles.

How much did you spend on your house, total cost?  How much did you pay in interest the last 30 years? 

Your house doubled... In almost 30 years?

I'm not trying to say you've done anything wrong.  I'm saying there is an alternative.

If Almost 30 years ago... You started renting.  And put the savings of buying/vs renting to include all maintenance, repairs, interest, levys, taxes... Etc... into the SP500?  Compounded almost 30 years.

Feel like you have an idea of what you think and can't see past that.  The "throwing money away" each month statement is a little bit of a tell.

Just a little math we're never shown.

 

A house is an appreciating asset, an investment that has huge tax write-off benefits. 

We bought our house for $290K in 2013, and now it's market value is around $550K. 

It's four bedrooms, three bathrooms and almost 3,000 square feet. Our monthly payment is $1,800, including taxes and insurance. Three-bedroom houses around here rent for way more than that.

You spend all that money on rent, move and then have nothing to show for it, and you're paying their taxes, insurance and into their equity in the process. 

We have an asset worth far more than what we paid for it, and once it's paid off, the taxes, insurance and even maintenance are a fraction of what a renter would pay to live in a place.

Real estate is a great way to complement an investment portfolio that includes investments in the S&P 500 and all that, and it's less volatile.

I don't like spending money on things of this magnitude and have nothing to show for it.

 

[mmmmm...beer 820]

7 minutes ago, FrancieFootball said:

A house is an appreciating asset, an investment that has huge tax write-off benefits. 

We bought our house for $290K in 2013, and now it's market value is around $550K. 

It's four bedrooms, three bathrooms and almost 3,000 square feet. Our monthly payment is $1,800, including taxes and insurance. Three-bedroom houses around here rent for way more than that.

You spend all that money on rent, move and then have nothing to show for it, and you're paying their taxes, insurance and into their equity in the process. 

We have an asset worth far more than what we paid for it, and once it's paid off, the taxes, insurance and even maintenance are a fraction of what a renter would pay to live in a place.

Real estate is a great way to complement an investment portfolio that includes investments in the S&P 500 and all that, and it's less volatile.

I don't like spending money on things of this magnitude and have nothing to show for it.

 

You didn't really seem to read anything I wrote.  You have a preconceived notion.  Again... Nothing wrong with what you did.  It's fine.  It may not math what you think it mathed though, but whatever.  You don't seem to care.  Which again... is fine.

[WhiteWonder 2,930]

3 hours ago, mmmmm...beer said:

Right... We have enough of a nest egg now, we don't need the forced savings.  Being mobile is worth more to me than sitting in one spot.

As someone who isn’t a huge advocate for either, the notion that being a homeowner leaves you immobile is laughable. There is nothing related to regular travel that makes renting better than owning… Unless by mobility you mean you plan to rent for a year and then change to a new city and keep doing that often. Then sure. But that’s a headache itself. 
also the idea that you can’t make money investing if you own a property, also silly. Sure, your home equity could be invested elsewhere but a lot of home owners have plenty left over to invest so it’s really just diversification. 
also a lot of renters forget that property taxes and bills they don’t directly pay like water/sewer are passed on to them in their rent  

but again, I’m not anti renting. 

[WhiteWonder 2,930]

46 minutes ago, mmmmm...beer said:

Hoe is renting "throwing money away"?  I have a place to live with no hassles.

 

If you have a great landlord or property management company, maybe. Otherwise I doubt it’s “no hassles”. I also suspect there are things you don’t have the freedom to do, if you wanted. 
now perhaps you don’t care about that. Not everyone does. Times I’ve rented I’ve only cared a little. 

[mmmmm...beer 820]

11 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

As someone who isn’t a huge advocate for either, the notion that being a homeowner leaves you immobile is laughable. There is nothing related to regular travel that makes renting better than owning… Unless by mobility you mean you plan to rent for a year and then change to a new city and keep doing that often. Then sure. But that’s a headache itself. 
also the idea that you can’t make money investing if you own a property, also silly. Sure, your home equity could be invested elsewhere but a lot of home owners have plenty left over to invest so it’s really just diversification. 
also a lot of renters forget that property taxes and bills they don’t directly pay like water/sewer are passed on to them in their rent  

but again, I’m not anti renting. 

Nobody said you can't travel.  Wtf you talking about wonder?  Hahah.. I mean locked into a spot for the length of your mortgage.  Obviously you can rent it out etc... that's not the point.

[WhiteWonder 2,930]

1 minute ago, mmmmm...beer said:

Nobody said you can't travel.  Wtf you talking about wonder?  Hahah.. I mean locked into a spot for the length of yourtgage.  Obviously you can rent it out etc... that's not the point.

You literally said being mobile was more important to you than owning a property. So what I’m talking about is this crazy notion that owning leaves you immobile. I’ve seen people on this board suggest that traveling around is easier when you rent. It’s literally no different. And, like I said, if you’re talking about moving to live in a new place full time, yes it’s easier as a renter to wait for your lease to be up or break it and go… but as you also just said, renting out your owned property and becoming a landlord can be a tremendous option for people who want to start moving around every few years as renters. 

[mmmmm...beer 820]

17 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

You literally said being mobile was more important to you than owning a property. So what I’m talking about is this crazy notion that owning leaves you immobile. I’ve seen people on this board suggest that traveling around is easier when you rent. It’s literally no different. And, like I said, if you’re talking about moving to live in a new place full time, yes it’s easier as a renter to wait for your lease to be up or break it and go… but as you also just said, renting out your owned property and becoming a landlord can be a tremendous option for people who want to start moving around every few years as renters. 

Yeah I'm talking about moving... For real.  Not like.. for a month at a time.

My main point to the whole thing is that buying a house isn't the end all be all.  If you already have the nest egg... Why?

We sold our house June 2024.  After maxing out our Roth's for the wife and I last year... And this year .. plus giving each of our girls $5k I to a UTMA, I dropped $205 into SCHG.  It's currently sitting at $267 in what...17 months?  Not yo include what we made on the Roth's and the girls UTMA's.

There's no way I'm dropping that back into a house.  Having that capital to invest now should crush any return on a house.

[mmmmm...beer 820]

Now... I do reserve the right if it all blows up... I have enough liquidity to drop on a few houses. 

But for personal homes... Meh.

Unless of course Mrs...beer beeches too hard.  Then I assume I'll have to find a property she can raise her chickens and bees in her retirement.