Who's more honest? Libs or cons?

[davebg 0]

The headline may seem like a trick question — even a dangerous one — to ask during an election year. And notice, please, that I didn’t ask whether certain politicians are more honest than others. (Politicians are a different species altogether.) Yet there is a striking gap between the manner in which liberals and conservatives address the issue of honesty.

 

Consider these results:

 

Is it OK to cheat on your taxes? A total of 57 percent of those who described themselves as “very liberal” said yes in response to the World Values Survey, compared with only 20 percent of those who are “very conservative.” When Pew Research asked whether it was “morally wrong” to cheat Uncle Sam, 86 percent of conservatives agreed, compared with only 68 percent of liberals.

 

Ponder this scenario, offered by the National Cultural Values Survey: “You lose your job. Your friend’s company is looking for someone to do temporary work. They are willing to pay the person in cash to avoid taxes and allow the person to still collect unemployment. What would you do?”

 

Almost half, or 49 percent, of self-described progressives would go along with the scheme, but only 21 percent of conservatives said they would.

 

When the World Values Survey asked a similar question, the results were largely the same: Those who were very liberal were much more likely to say it was all right to get welfare benefits you didn’t deserve.

 

The World Values Survey found that those on the left were also much more likely to say it is OK to buy goods that you know are stolen. Studies have also found that those on the left were more likely to say it was OK to drink a can of soda in a store without paying for it and to avoid the truth while negotiating the price of a car.

 

Another survey by Barna Research found that political liberals were two and a half times more likely to say that they illegally download or trade music for free on the Internet.

 

A study by professors published in the American Taxation Association’s Journal of Legal Tax Research found conservative students took the issue of accounting scandals and tax evasion more seriously than their fellow liberal students. Those with a “liberal outlook” who “reject the idea of absolute truth” were more accepting of cheating at school, according to another study, involving 291 students and published in the Journal of Education for Business.

 

A study in the Journal of Business Ethics involving 392 college students found that stronger beliefs toward “conservatism” translated into “higher levels of ethical values.” And academics concluded in the Journal of Psychology that there was a link between “political liberalism” and “lying in your own self-interest,” based on a study involving 156 adults.

 

Liberals were more willing to “let others take the blame” for their own ethical lapses, “copy a published article” and pass it off as their own, and were more accepting of “cheating on an exam,” according to still another study in the Journal of Business Ethics.

 

Now, I’m not suggesting that all conservatives are honest and all liberals are untrustworthy. But clearly a gap exists in the data. Why? The quick answer might be that liberals are simply being more honest about their dishonesty.

 

However attractive this explanation might be for some, there is simply no basis for accepting this explanation. Validation studies, which attempt to figure out who misreports on academic surveys and why, has found no evidence that conservatives are less honest. Indeed, validation research indicates that Democrats tend to be less forthcoming than other groups.

 

The honesty gap is also not a result of “bad people” becoming liberals and “good people” becoming conservatives. In my mind, a more likely explanation is bad ideas. Modern liberalism is infused with idea that truth is relative. Surveys consistently show this. And if truth is relative, it also must follow that honesty is subjective.

 

Sixties organizer Saul Alinsky, who both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton say inspired and influenced them, once said the effective political advocate “doesn’t have a fixed truth; truth to him is relative and changing, everything to him is relative and changing. He is a political relativist.”

 

During this political season, honesty is often in short supply. But at least we can improve things by accepting the idea that truth and honesty exist. As the late scholar Sidney Hook put it, “the easiest rationalization for the refusal to seek the truth is the denial that truth exists.”

 

http://www.examiner.com/a-1419425~Peter_Sc..._liberals_.html

Interesting study. I'm not so sure how much these studies prove as much as they support the author's conclusions...

 

Discuss...

[DankNuggs 305]

conservatives believe in accountability. They believe in fiscal responsibility. They believe in the concept of everyone pulling their own weight.

 

 

Libs believe the success of the rich should subsidize the poor. They believe the poor are not responsible for their position in life. They believe that everyone should live a middle class life whether they work for it or not.

 

You tell me which one sounds more fair and honest.

[mighty_thor 115]

I tend to dismiss most articles from the very far right and very far left. This guy has as big a hardon for libs as recliner piliot. I would lump this guy in with an Al Franken as someone who looks at issues from one side only.

 

Its pretty hard to quantify honestness.

[GettnHuge 1]

I tend to dismiss most articles from the very far right and very far left. This guy has as big a hardon for libs as recliner piliot. I would lump this guy in with an Al Franken as someone who looks at issues from one side only.

 

Its pretty hard to quantify honestness.

 

Wow. article verified

[Me_2006 14]

I think at the very core of things, the term "conservative" itself is likely to point to why they're more "honest." Trying to "conserve" the way things were, as far as morals, values, and the way things are done as well as money, liberty, etc is going to lead to that moreso than the "free thinking" liberal with more subjective truths and values. Of course, this is me making very broad generalizations, but if you think people in San Fran and people in southern Alabama have the same concept of what's right and what's wrong, then you're lying to yourself. One could argue religious implications, and that probably plays a factor too, but I think that you identify yourself with the party that champions what you stand for, and the causes of the right tend to be more "conservative" as far as moral standards.

 

 

also, as already mentioned, the source of the article plays a factor as well.

[davebg 0]

I tend to dismiss most articles from the very far right and very far left. This guy has as big a hardon for libs as recliner piliot. I would lump this guy in with an Al Franken as someone who looks at issues from one side only.

 

Its pretty hard to quantify honestness.

Agreed, but I thought his premise was an interesting one...namely, that Libs are indirectly less honest by virtue of their own moral code. The ends justify the means...they will break the rules if it means that they can achieve what they believe to be a just goal.

 

It's not really a new idea, but I thought that all the survey stuff in the article put a new spin on it that made it worth discussing.

[mighty_thor 115]

Agreed, but I thought his premise was an interesting one...namely, that Libs are indirectly less honest by virtue of their own moral code. The ends justify the means...they will break the rules if it means that they can achieve what they believe to be a just goal.

 

It's not really a new idea, but I thought that all the survey stuff in the article put a new spin on it that made it worth discussing.

 

the article may be correct that a liberal is more likely to break rules or laws for a just cause. But I am not sure that is really a question of honesty. MLK went to jail for causes that he thought were right. there are many cases in the history of the US where laws were broken in order to correct a wrong. I lean towards the left and do not consider these people dishonest. Many were true heros of America. Maybe conservatives would consider them dishonest people instead of patriots.

[FlaHawker 24]

conservatives believe in accountability. They believe in fiscal responsibility. They believe in the concept of everyone pulling their own weight.

Libs believe the success of the rich should subsidize the poor. They believe the poor are not responsible for their position in life. They believe that everyone should live a middle class life whether they work for it or not.

 

You tell me which one sounds more fair and honest.

Bravo

[tikigods 76]

conservatives believe in accountability. They believe in fiscal responsibility.

 

I disagree. Bush has buried us in debt spending like a drunken sailor. The Patriot Act has taken away civil liberties. Republicans increase spending and cut taxes. I would not call that being responsible at all. It would be like charging on a credit card then quitting your job. If you want to spend you must create revenue not borrow it from China and devalue the dollar. It's killed the economy and caused massive energy problems that are crippling the country.

 

The only TRUE honest political party in America are the Libertarians but you'll never hear much about them because the dishonest political parties control the media.

[pimptastic69 0]

I disagree. Bush has buried us in debt spending like a drunken sailor. The Patriot Act has taken away civil liberties. Republicans increase spending and cut taxes. I would not call that being responsible at all. It would be like charging on a credit card then quitting your job. If you want to spend you must create revenue not borrow it from China and devalue the dollar. It's killed the economy and caused massive energy problems that are crippling the country.

 

The only TRUE honest political party in America are the Libertarians but you'll never hear much about them because the dishonest political parties control the media.

 

W is not a conservative.

 

ETA: Hell, I saw a McCain ad the other day and assumed he'd turned into a democrat. Republicans are all focked up right now.

[ZeroTolerance 582]

Are we debating which politicians are more honest?

 

Politicians...honest....

 

[Korben Dallas 0]

conservatives believe in accountability. They believe in fiscal responsibility. They believe in the concept of everyone pulling their own weight.

Libs believe the success of the rich should subsidize the poor. They believe the poor are not responsible for their position in life. They believe that everyone should live a middle class life whether they work for it or not.

 

You tell me which one sounds more fair and honest.

After 7 years of conservatism and you can still write that and not feel embarrassed. Conservatives in action has shown us that it represents unmitigated corruption without any restraints. Fiscal irresponsibility in order to advance their corruption. And the middle class and the poor to carry the weight of the rich. You all need to stop pretending that it was Bush, it was ALL of them. We have seen the world and government as run unchecked by conservatives and it has failed. To not think so is delusional.

 

I also demand you change your name, traitor. Conservatives also belief that marijuana smoking is the devil.

[pimptastic69 0]

After 7 years of conservatism and you can still write that and not feel embarrassed. Conservatives in action has shown us that it represents unmitigated corruption without any restraints. Fiscal irresponsibility in order to advance their corruption. And the middle class and the poor to carry the weight of the rich. You all need to stop pretending that it was Bush, it was ALL of them. We have seen the world and government as run unchecked by conservatives and it has failed. To not think so is delusional.

 

I also demand you change your name, traitor. Conservatives also belief that marijuana smoking is the devil.

 

Don't be such a fool.

 

Does Jimmy Carter ring a bell?

 

Fiscal rsponsibility falls on the individual, not the government. Rich, middle class, poor - whatever; you are responsible for your own damn self. If you would quit worrying about how much better off the other guy is, and just worry about yourself, we'd do just fine.

[tikigods 76]

W is not a conservative.

 

ETA: Hell, I saw a McCain ad the other day and assumed he'd turned into a democrat. Republicans are all focked up right now.

 

He ran as one.

 

Also...can people take God out of the voting equation? What is wrong with stem cell research? What is wrong with legalizing marijuana? Why do we have to wear seat belts? Why do we even have a drinking age?

 

NH is such a great state. We actually BELIEVE in civil liberty and being fiscally responsible. NO state sales tax. NO state income tax. Towns are responsible for their school taxes and municipal taxes. Show up at town meeting and discuss it as a community. We are the America the forefathers envisioned.

[tikigods 76]

Don't be such a fool.

 

Does Jimmy Carter ring a bell?

 

Fiscal rsponsibility falls on the individual, not the government. Rich, middle class, poor - whatever; you are responsible for your own damn self. If you would quit worrying about how much better off the other guy is, and just worry about yourself, we'd do just fine.

 

National sales tax and repeal the 16th Amendment.

[Quickolas1 80]

only ron paul was in this year's election

[pimptastic69 0]

National sales tax and repeal the 16th Amendment.

 

I'm all for the Fair Tax.

[Korben Dallas 0]

only ron paul was in this year's election

Ron Paul is not a conservative, he is a libertarian. Huge difference.

[davebg 0]

TO: All those who mentioned specific politicians

 

RE: Reading is Fundamental

 

In the first pragraph the author makes the point that he is talking about average people who recognize themselves as either lib or con and he explicitly excludes any politician from the discussion.

And notice, please, that I didn’t ask whether certain politicians are more honest than others. (Politicians are a different species altogether.)

[BLS 313]

Ron Paul is not a conservative, he is a libertarian. Huge difference.

 

 

Actually Ron Paul is a Republican. And Libertarianism's roots are Conservative principles.

 

So you're actually wrong twice.

[Korben Dallas 0]

Actually Ron Paul is a Republican. And Libertarianism's roots are Conservative principles.

 

So you're actually wrong twice.

 

Then he's a terrible one, I always assumed he was a RINO. Libertarianism roots are in Conservative theories principles, this is true. But Conservative theory is not policy, we can see how conservative policy works.

[Voice_Of_Reason 0]

Trick question. Both lie. Niether is more honest. Honest people come in all shape, sizes, and beliefs.

[tikigods 76]

Then he's a terrible one, I always assumed he was a RINO. Libertarianism roots are in Conservative theories principles, this is true. But Conservative theory is not policy, we can see how conservative policy works.

 

Libertarians are rooted in liberty. They believe in limited government, concerning ourselves with ourselves and not interfering around the globe, people taking care of themselves and letting go of the government nipple.

 

Conservatism has been about overspending, ethnocentrism, and fundamental Christianity. I want no part of your "conservative policy".

[BLS 313]

Libertarians are rooted in liberty. They believe in limited government, concerning ourselves with ourselves and not interfering around the globe, people taking care of themselves and letting go of the government nipple.

 

Conservatism has been about overspending, ethnocentrism, and fundamental Christianity. I want no part of your "conservative policy".

 

I disagree completely with you and Korben on this, just for one reason though.

 

GWB does not epitomize a political philosophy. He is a poor excuse for a conservative.

Ron Paul is one of the TRUE Republicans out there. He's anything but a RINO.

 

The Neocon's have messed up the conservative party completely. Hence the reason I supported him so strongly.

 

I agree that the current administration has not followed true conservative roots; no argument from me there.

But to say that 'conservatism' is now about overspending, etc, is just not true.

[Korben Dallas 0]

I disagree completely with you and Korben on this, just for one reason though.

 

GWB does not epitomize a political philosophy. He is a poor excuse for a conservative.

Ron Paul is one of the TRUE Republicans out there. He's anything but a RINO.

 

The Neocon's have messed up the conservative party completely. Hence the reason I supported him so strongly.

 

I agree that the current administration has not followed true conservative roots; no argument from me there.

But to say that 'conservatism' is now about overspending, etc, is just not true.

 

The only problem I have is that it wasn't just the administration, it was Senate and Congress, it was all the federal agencies that were gutted of qualified folks and replaced with "true conservatives", it was the revolution at the state level to. This IS the conservative movement in policy. Surely all the thousands of conservatives in power in all 3 branches are mistaken, they are the leaders and definers of the movement. Its the public thats been misled.

 

Spend and Borrow, unrestricted capitalism, Corruption because gov't is evil anyway (right?), pass restrictive laws on civil liberties to advance "Christian Values". This is what the conservative belief structure looks like.

 

The reason I liked (though disagreed) with Ron Paul is because he ISN'T a conservative.

[BLS 313]

The only problem I have is that it wasn't just the administration, it was Senate and Congress, it was all the federal agencies that were gutted of qualified folks and replaced with "true conservatives", it was the revolution at the state level to. This IS the conservative movement in policy. Surely all the thousands of conservatives in power in all 3 branches are mistaken, they are the leaders and definers of the movement. Its the public thats been misled.

 

Spend and Borrow, unrestricted capitalism, Corruption because gov't is evil anyway (right?), pass restrictive laws on civil liberties to advance "Christian Values". This is what the conservative belief structure looks like.

 

The reason I liked (though disagreed) with Ron Paul is because he ISN'T a conservative.

 

 

Fair enough. Good points.

 

And I agree, based on today's 'standards' for conservatism, you're right, Ron Paul isn't one of them.

But I've been a huge part of the election process in MN, and let me tell you...there are ALOT of p!ssed off Conservatives at our current administration and today's 'conservatives'. The people want Fiscal AND Social Conservatists in office. Not people like GWB, McCain and the like.

 

Many of those who would've fought to the death to stand behind GWB here on this board feel the same way as I do now.

We've been betrayed, and we were loyal to the party. Now heads need to roll.

 

My biggest fear to making any changes to the party is that McCain gets elected and continues down this path.

[Inspiration 0]

None of the above.

[Greedo 13]

conservatives believe in accountability. They believe in fiscal responsibility. They believe in the concept of everyone pulling their own weight.

Libs believe the success of the rich should subsidize the poor. They believe the poor are not responsible for their position in life. They believe that everyone should live a middle class life whether they work for it or not.

 

I'd agree with everything above except the middle class part. Just note that real conservatives are hard to find in politics these days...

 

Trick question. Both lie. Niether is more honest. Honest people come in all shape, sizes, and beliefs.

 

[Flashover 0]

Libs. They just happen to lie less then conservatives.

[Savage Beast 1]

Trick question. Both lie. Niether is more honest. Honest people come in all shape, sizes, and beliefs.

 

[gocolts 300]

The only problem I have is that it wasn't just the administration, it was Senate and Congress, it was all the federal agencies that were gutted of qualified folks and replaced with "true conservatives", it was the revolution at the state level to. This IS the conservative movement in policy. Surely all the thousands of conservatives in power in all 3 branches are mistaken, they are the leaders and definers of the movement. Its the public thats been misled.

 

Spend and Borrow, unrestricted capitalism, Corruption because gov't is evil anyway (right?), pass restrictive laws on civil liberties to advance "Christian Values". This is what the conservative belief structure looks like.

 

The reason I liked (though disagreed) with Ron Paul is because he ISN'T a conservative.

Do you honestly think that Dubya is conservative??? That is why so many are pissed at him and his approval ratings have been in the tank for so long. He is not a conservative, not by a mile. And neither are the the ones that supported his liberal policies. Just because he claims to be does not make it so. The is NOT the conservative movement in policy, not even close. About the only thing he did to not let down conservatives is SCOTUS appointments. For you to say that Bush is conservative and that this is conservative movement in policy just shows your lack of knowledge about what conservatism is. Not surprising coming from a poster who continually shows he doesn't have any clue whatsoever.

[Greedo 13]

I'll give Bush socially conservative, but he was beyond fiscally irresponsible. Consider also the ballooning of government under his watch. He's the antithesis of a fiscal conservative.