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#81 weepaws

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 11:23 AM

Thanks for the reply and the FA list.

I agree Bell would be the only choice , and he's not leaving Pittsburgh.
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#82 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 11:26 AM

Not sure I agree that Lats can't be the guy. He isn't Bell or Djohns, but he is better than your average back imo.

#83 R8RMick

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 11:26 AM

 
I'm not a cap expert, so if it's a minimum $1 million base, then make that his base then I guess. Wouldn't change that much from my base idea.
And the "why" for Cousins to do that is he wants the long term deal from everything I'm hearing, so perhaps they guarantee him $45 million-$50 million, which gives him insurance against taking the $24 million franchise number again and potentially getting hurt. Most players don't seem to want to play under the franchise 1 year tender (let alone for 2 years) even if it's more money in that first year and would trade that for more long term security; and this would be presuming of course that Cousins just doesn't want to re-sign in Wash long term anyway.
 
And the "why" for Den would be they can't seem to win with what they've got. You're right that they have other needs on both the o-line and defense, but they can't win with what they have at the QB position, so all the other moves are for naught if they still go into the year with Lynch and Siemian as the guys. Considering Elway before was able to bring in Talib, Ward, Ware, E Sanders, and re-sign Chris Harris all while still having Peyton's huge contract on the books, then if anyone was going to find a way to work around the cap for a deal like Cousins (whether he deserves it or not) you'd think Elway would be able to.
 
To be honest, this was really just a spit ball idea back when this discussion was going on, so I didn't put a ton of thought into it. Just saying "could" be a possibility if Cousins was really adamant about leaving, that's all.  


Raider fan here. I can't see Denver going large $$$ on a QB after spending a 1st on Lynch, even IF they had the money. Which they don't. Cousins would be a fantasy for them cap-wise. Even if you go $1 mill base that first year would have one fifth of a signing bonus added to his base. So a 5 yr deal with a $30 mill signing bonus adds $6 mill to that first year salary. Again, not likely.

The big question is what type of offense the new HC wants to run. Maybe a Denver homer can shed light?
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#84 R8RMick

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 11:27 AM

Not sure I agree that Lats can't be the guy. He isn't Bell or Djohns, but he is better than your average back imo.


With a young QB and a porous defense the Raiders desperately need a workhorse back that ISN'T average.
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#85 Oriole8159

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 12:34 PM

Not sure I agree that Lats can't be the guy. He isn't Bell or Djohns, but he is better than your average back imo.

yeah but considering the contracts given out last year to other "better than average" RBs like Lamar Miller (4 yr $26 mill w/ $14 mill guaranteed),  or Chris Ivory (5 yr, $32 mill w/ $10 mill guaranteed), I wouldn't want to give a similar contract to Murray, which I'm sure he'll command.

I'd much rather gamble on one of the rookies.


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#86 Oriole8159

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 12:35 PM

 

One thing that was proven in Tampa this year is that Charles Sims is nothing more than a complimentary piece and will never be anything more.  A word of advice to any keeper or dynasty people here... trade him if you got him if there's someone in your league who likes him.  With that being the case, they're going to want a guy to be "the guy" and not someone like Latavius Murray who is "a guy".  There's actually a lot a FA RB's this year...

 

Chris Johnson
Christine Michael
Danny Woodhead
Darren McFadden
DeAngelo Williams
Denard Robinson
Dexter McCluster
Eddie Lacy
Jacquizz Rodgers
Joique Bell
Jordan Todman
Justin Forsett
Knile Davis
Latavius Murray
LeGarrette Blount
Le'Veon Bell
Matt Asiata
Reggie Bush
 

... so there is plenty of reason to let Martin walk - especially if you look at the draft and the boatload of kids entering the league.  But as I said, the Bucs are going to want an every down back.  I don't think anyone on that list, aside from Bell who will re-sign with Pittsburgh, falls into that category.  As I said before, anything can happen, but at this point in time, I don't think there are plans to cut him loose.  It will all depend on where the chips fall in free agency, the draft, and any suspension.  Stroud's comments are baseless in my opinion.  The Bucs knew all the info there was to know on Martin and they still gave him a 4-year deal.  They absolutely believed in him for the long-term and short-term.  If they didn't believe in him, they wouldn't have guaranteed the second year of the deal and would have back-loaded the contract... they didn't, they front-loaded it.

 

Denard Robinson intrigues me.

He could bust out on the right team that knows how to use his skill set.


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M GORDON, MONTGOMERY, t cohen, forte, b powell, chris Johnson, woodhead (IR)

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GRONKOWSKI, g olsen

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#87 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 01:26 PM

Not sure I agree that Lats can't be the guy. He isn't Bell or Djohns, but he is better than your average back imo.

 

I think he is the average back.  He was only putting up good numbers when the OLine was playing well... and healthy.  The Raiders OLine is way better than Tampa's, and if he can't be as productive in Oakland as Martin in Tampa, he won't be very good in Tampa.  In general, Murray looks like a guy who needs a good OLine to open holes for him.  He can hit them, but he can't make them.  He's extremely below average in trying to make something out of nothing.  He's fine, but he needs to be running behind a top 10 run blocking line.



#88 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 01:31 PM

 

Denard Robinson intrigues me.

He could bust out on the right team that knows how to use his skill set.

There's a couple guys that I think can do pretty well, though, they have major durability concerns or commitment issues... DeAngelo, McFadden, Lacy, and Michael.



#89 weepaws

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 02:15 PM

Yeah McFadden could get the job done.

But darn it, he can't stay on the field.

I think L Murray is a good rb, but he doesn't seem to me to be the every down back the Bucs would be looking for.
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#90 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 02:24 PM

 
I think he is the average back.  He was only putting up good numbers when the OLine was playing well... and healthy.  The Raiders OLine is way better than Tampa's, and if he can't be as productive in Oakland as Martin in Tampa, he won't be very good in Tampa.  In general, Murray looks like a guy who needs a good OLine to open holes for him.  He can hit them, but he can't make them.  He's extremely below average in trying to make something out of nothing.  He's fine, but he needs to be running behind a top 10 run blocking line.


I saw him fight for extra yards a lot this year. Maybe we have a difference of opinion on what an average back is. An average back is anyone that can be pulled off the street and tossed in for him and do the same. I saw two rbs in Oakland who didn't seem they could do the all around things Lats could. Murray is a pretty good receiver which is underrated and I think it was underutilized.

One instance in particular was when a RB I consider completely average in DeAndre Washington be put in late in the game over Lats. Carr through a pass over Washington's head. If it was Lats he would have had a chance to catch it. Washington was too short and couldn't even get a finger on it. That's just the way I view his overall skill level. But yeah I can't deny some flaws in his game. He should be breaking huge runs for how fast he is.

#91 Oriole8159

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 03:27 PM

I saw him fight for extra yards a lot this year. Maybe we have a difference of opinion on what an average back is. An average back is anyone that can be pulled off the street and tossed in for him and do the same. I saw two rbs in Oakland who didn't seem they could do the all around things Lats could. Murray is a pretty good receiver which is underrated and I think it was underutilized.

One instance in particular was when a RB I consider completely average in DeAndre Washington be put in late in the game over Lats. Carr through a pass over Washington's head. If it was Lats he would have had a chance to catch it. Washington was too short and couldn't even get a finger on it. That's just the way I view his overall skill level. But yeah I can't deny some flaws in his game. He should be breaking huge runs for how fast he is.

I think a lot of my personal opinion has to do with the positions I'd rather spend money on in free agency vs. drafting. There's certain positions that are just easier for incoming players to play immediately (especially mid to late round picks) and I'd rather pursue those positions in the draft, and spend my FA money on players at positions that are harder to get acclimated to early.

 

For example, if I had a need at RB and CB and had $5 million to spend, I'd rather spend the money on Prince Amukamara and draft a mid round RB, then spend the FA money on Lat Murray and draft a mid round CB. Historically speaking, you have a much better chance of having the RB be able to be a positive contributor year 1 than the CB; especially in in this year when it's an especially deep RB class. I would put offensive line in that same category with CB as well.

 

So I'll agree that Lat is "better than average" in a vacuum, but I'd just rather not spend money on a "better than average" RB. It's not great value IMO in a salary cap league.

 

Hope that makes sense.


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R WILSON, wentz

M GORDON, MONTGOMERY, t cohen, forte, b powell, chris Johnson, woodhead (IR)

AJ GREEN, HILTON, D PARKER, E SANDERS, higgins,

GRONKOWSKI, g olsen

CAROLINA


#92 Marshall

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 03:29 PM

There's a couple guys that I think can do pretty well, though, they have major durability concerns or commitment issues... DeAngelo, McFadden, Lacy, and Michael.

 

You keep mentioning Michael. Did you watch his last game, by chance?

 

It was rather iconic - sort of an encapsulation of his...style, if you will.


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#93 ROCKFORD

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 06:08 PM

good post tbay


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#94 ralphster

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 09:11 PM

 

One thing that was proven in Tampa this year is that Charles Sims is nothing more than a complimentary piece and will never be anything more.  A word of advice to any keeper or dynasty people here... trade him if you got him if there's someone in your league who likes him.  With that being the case, they're going to want a guy to be "the guy" and not someone like Latavius Murray who is "a guy".  There's actually a lot a FA RB's this year...

 

Chris Johnson
Christine Michael
Danny Woodhead
Darren McFadden
DeAngelo Williams
Denard Robinson
Dexter McCluster
Eddie Lacy
Jacquizz Rodgers
Joique Bell
Jordan Todman
Justin Forsett
Knile Davis
Latavius Murray
LeGarrette Blount
Le'Veon Bell
Matt Asiata
Reggie Bush
 

... so there is plenty of reason to let Martin walk - especially if you look at the draft and the boatload of kids entering the league.  But as I said, the Bucs are going to want an every down back.  I don't think anyone on that list, aside from Bell who will re-sign with Pittsburgh, falls into that category.  As I said before, anything can happen, but at this point in time, I don't think there are plans to cut him loose.  It will all depend on where the chips fall in free agency, the draft, and any suspension.  Stroud's comments are baseless in my opinion.  The Bucs knew all the info there was to know on Martin and they still gave him a 4-year deal.  They absolutely believed in him for the long-term and short-term.  If they didn't believe in him, they wouldn't have guaranteed the second year of the deal and would have back-loaded the contract... they didn't, they front-loaded it.

 

There are 3, maybe 4 starting running backs on that list.  Beyond that a buncha speculative garbage.  With your proximity to the Bucs I'd be interested in your take on Sims now that Martin is perhaps packing his bags.  


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#95 cousinal111

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 06:00 AM

 
There are 3, maybe 4 starting running backs on that list.  Beyond that a buncha speculative garbage.  With your proximity to the Bucs I'd be interested in your take on Sims now that Martin is perhaps packing his bags.  


Judging by his first sentence in that post he doesn't seem to think he'll be a starter. I have Sims stashed on my bench in a keeper league & am monitoring it closely.

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#96 TimmySmith

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 09:30 AM

Terrell Pryor is the guy i have my eye on and would love for the Skins to sign.  Plays tough and is still learning the position.  He has what it takes to be a 110 - 1500 - 12 type guy. 


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#97 DankNuggs

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 01:17 PM

Terrell Pryor is the guy i have my eye on and would love for the Skins to sign.  Plays tough and is still learning the position.  He has what it takes to be a 110 - 1500 - 12 type guy. 


Could see him in a pats browns garoppolo trade.

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#98 ralphster

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 01:41 PM

Could see him in a pats browns garoppolo trade.


That would be awesome, but I don't see Hugh shipping out his best WR talent.
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#99 Ray_T

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 01:53 PM

 

That $21M is spread over the 2018, 19, and 20 seasons, not next off season.  I said that was Martin's motivation for playing hard in 2017, not the teams' reason for wanting to keep him.  The Buccaneers have a lot of needs to address on the OLine and DLine, as well as WR, that are higher priorities than RB.  If Martin is able to play, I think the Bucs bring him back for 2017.  They like him.  They'll keep him if a better option doesn't present itself.  I don't see the team using a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, round draft pick on a RB.  That said, we already know that they are NOT a "smart franchise"... they traded a 3rd and 4th round pick to draft a mediocre kicker in the 2nd round.

I agree that the large guaranteed money portion of his contract means Martin likely isnt going anywhere....

 

....at least not this year.   If I was king of the world (or at least GM of that franchise)  I'd upgrade the line in the draft (o-line and D line) and that REALLY needs to be the priority.

 

also, there is no point in bringing in a new back with a high draft pick until they turn things around on the O line. 

 

Also.....With an early first round pick as their QB, you would think protecting their investment would be a high priority, but I have certainly seen stranger things (such as what you mentioned above)

 

Will they do the right thing?  who knows?   All I can speak to is what they SHOULD do.


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#100 DankNuggs

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 03:21 PM

That would be awesome, but I don't see Hugh shipping out his best WR talent.

Corey Coleman will still be there


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#101 ralphster

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 06:40 PM

Corey Coleman will still be there

 

Coleman is a good WR who flashed talent last year.  That said Coleman's a DJax type player at 5-10 and 185lbs, whereas Tyrelle Pryor is 6-4 and 223lbs more like DT or Julio.  Not putting Pryor into DT/JJ conversation mind you, just making the point that the Browns would be better served using some of their draft pick ammo to acquire Garappalo instead of moving Pryor.


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#102 weepaws

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 07:39 PM

They are after all the Browns, I'm sure they are looking at WRs in the next draft.
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Isaiah 12:2. Luke 14:23. Daniel 4:37. 2 Kings 17:39.
Psalm 34:18. Ezra 8:22. 2 Corinthians 1:3. Ezekiel 36:26.
1 John 3:16. Lamentations 3:25. Proverbs 10:27. Ephesians 6:13
Proverbs 15:29. Proverbs 18:12. 1 John 2:1-2. Ephesians 6:19.
Proverbs 23:12. Psalm 121:7-8. Ephesians 1:7. Deuteronomy 28:11-13.
2 Peter 3:9. Isaiah 5:21. Proverbs 11:2.
Psalm 58:11. Ezekiel 33:11-13. Hosea 14:9.
John 3:3-7. Philippians 2:11. Titus 2:11-12
1 Timothy 1:15. Psalm 119:6. Proverbs 22:4

#103 DankNuggs

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 01:41 PM

 

Coleman is a good WR who flashed talent last year.  That said Coleman's a DJax type player at 5-10 and 185lbs, whereas Tyrelle Pryor is 6-4 and 223lbs more like DT or Julio.  Not putting Pryor into DT/JJ conversation mind you, just making the point that the Browns would be better served using some of their draft pick ammo to acquire Garappalo instead of moving Pryor.

You are prob right. 


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