England afraid to fly its own flag

[davebg 0]

The cost of speaking out against the prevailing winds is very high, as we've seen over and over in this country the last 5 years. You don't think the Islamic demagogues would do exactly the same thing to anyone who even HINTED that the Americans might not be the murdering dogs they're painted to be by radical Islam?

I'd say the cost is still much higher when dealing w/Muslims.

 

See...the Afghan convert who had to be declared insane to avoid a death sent...VanGogh lying in the park w/a knife jutting out of his chest...Salamn Rushdie....the editors of that Danish newspaper who printed the cartoons...yadda, yadda, yadda.

 

It's one thing to be silenced by the voice of people who disagree with you. It's another thing entirely to be silenced by the swords of people who disagree with you.

[Fumbleweed 426]

A BREACHED levee is then overtopped by water, quite obviously. Otherwise there'd be no harm to a breach. That has nothing to do with what CAUSED the breach, which is entirely what I was discussing, if you remember. Strock of the ACS declared that the 17th Street Canal was breached by overtopping. I called BS on that, showing that the water could not have been high enough. I was correct, they were wrong, and they admitted as such. Only people such as yourself are clinging to other versions of that story.

Can you blame them? Look at all the BS I endure just to point out gocolts' xenophobic bent in posting a link to an article about British pussbags putting away their flags because of a defunct Muslim group shouting epithets. The cost of speaking out against the prevailing winds is very high, as we've seen over and over in this country the last 5 years. You don't think the Islamic demagogues would do exactly the same thing to anyone who even HINTED that the Americans might not be the murdering dogs they're painted to be by radical Islam?

 

There was a great opportunity for Bush to rally moderate Muslims to the cause of freedom. He spurned it. The fact that many of those moderates have now fallen off the fence to the other side, should be blamed at least in part of the decisions made by our own government.

 

You simply can't compare the two sets of "prevailing winds" Going against the prevailing winds in this country doesn't lead to death or even violence being perpetuated against you in most cases.

[torridjoe 0]

You mean people that saw it with their own eyes, as the reporter was standing there discussing it, as we watched the water go OVER the levee, without damaging that part of it? Sounds good to me. I don't need a 750 page report telling me what I did or did not see.

 

I did like your gem:

"I was correct, they were wrong"

Seems to be your own personal motto.

 

there was a reporter standing next to the levee as it breached? That's amazing? Who was it, and how did they know to be standing right there when the levee breached?

 

You still seem totally confused about the difference between water going over an already-breached levee, and the process of overtopping CAUSING a breach. What the ACS claimed was the latter--that waves came over the levee, and scrubbed the inside wall to the point where it collapsed--in fact was not true, and I pointed that out, long before the ACS was forced to admit it wasn't true.

 

 

 

 

I'd say the cost is still much higher when dealing w/Muslims.

 

See...the Afghan convert who had to be declared insane to avoid a death sent...VanGogh lying in the park w/a knife jutting out of his chest...Salamn Rushdie....the editors of that Danish newspaper who printed the cartoons...yadda, yadda, yadda.

 

It's one thing to be silenced by the voice of people who disagree with you. It's another thing entirely to be silenced by the swords of people who disagree with you.

 

oh, no disagreement there. That only bolsters the point that moderates who might otherwise speak up, have every right to be afraid to do so.

[Snuff 10]

there was a reporter standing next to the levee as it breached? That's amazing? Who was it, and how did they know to be standing right there when the levee breached?

 

You still seem totally confused about the difference between water going over an already-breached levee, and the process of overtopping CAUSING a breach. What the ACS claimed was the latter--that waves came over the levee, and scrubbed the inside wall to the point where it collapsed--in fact was not true, and I pointed that out, long before the ACS was forced to admit it wasn't true.

oh, no disagreement there. That only bolsters the point that moderates who might otherwise speak up, have every right to be afraid to do so.

 

See how you twist things? Show me where I said the reporter was standing there AS it was topped.

 

Here comes the typical crap from torrid........

[gocolts 300]

Can you blame them? Look at all the BS I endure just to point out gocolts' xenophobic bent in posting a link to an article about British pussbags putting away their flags because of a defunct Muslim group shouting epithets.

 

"gocolts' xenophobic bent in posting"

 

Don't let the facts get in the way of your arguments.

[Strike 3,998]

They give that information to ANY country whose nationals have been detained where we have that agreement, you idiot. It's entirely routine, and doesn't put any US citizen in danger.

 

Who does the Army Corps report to? Might it being the President? Ever issue a report that blamed your boss for slashing funding that caused the disrepair of infrastructure?

So no US group has celebrated the bombing of Iraq or Afghanistan? You sure?

 

 

1) They do not give THAT information to any foreign gov't at all. What does the location of civilians have to do with someone being taken in to custody for immigration violations? Never mind, that information has nothing to do with it and is not required by law. BTW, the gov't only backtracked after the outrage started. Their initial reaction was that "yeah we do it so what.". Of course you already know all this and are just spinning to suit your agenda, as usual.

 

2) The overtopping was just ONE small piece of the levee argument. You blamed the flooding of NO on relatively small budget cuts by Bush. That has been clearly proven to not be the case yet you backtrack to the overtopping which was a non-issue in the grand scheme of things. But that's just normal you.

 

3) It wasn't disrepair that caused the flooding. That's why it's impossible to have an intelligent conversation with you. There has to be agreement at least on FACTS, and the facts show that the flooding was caused by many things but the one thing it wasn't was maintenance.

[torridjoe 0]

1) They do not give THAT information to any foreign gov't at all. What does the location of civilians have to do with someone being taken in to custody for immigration violations? Never mind, that information has nothing to do with it and is not required by law. BTW, the gov't only backtracked after the outrage started. Their initial reaction was that "yeah we do it so what.". Of course you already know all this and are just spinning to suit your agenda, as usual.

 

2) The overtopping was just ONE small piece of the levee argument. You blamed the flooding of NO on relatively small budget cuts by Bush. That has been clearly proven to not be the case yet you backtrack to the overtopping which was a non-issue in the grand scheme of things. But that's just normal you.

 

3) It wasn't disrepair that caused the flooding. That's why it's impossible to have an intelligent conversation with you. There has to be agreement at least on FACTS, and the facts show that the flooding was caused by many things but the one thing it wasn't was maintenance.

 

You sad, obsessive little troll.

 

40% cuts are not "small" budget cuts.

 

The one thing it wasn't was maintenance, eh?

You're dumb:

 

Several outside engineering panels that have been critical of the Army Corps of Engineers have come to similar conclusions about the failures of the region's hurricane protection system, and have found a more extensive chain of flaws in the design, construction and maintenance of the 350-mile levee system.

 

and

the region's network of levees, floodwalls, pumps and gates lacked any built-in resilience that would have allowed the system to remain standing and provide protection even if water flowed over the tops of levees and floodwalls, the report's investigators found. Flaws in the levee design that allowed breaches in the city's drainage canals were not foreseen, and those floodwalls failed even though the storm waters did not rise above the level that the walls were designed to hold.

 

As for your continued misapprehension of the facts on notification, you ask, "What does the location of civilians have to do with someone being taken in to custody for immigration violations?" The answer is that it's also the location of where the person being taken into custody was apprehended, and that information is among those pieces the foreign consulate is entitled to under agreement.

 

You have reacted to the distorted claim that the US government is tipping off the Mexican government as to the location of the Minutemen in general, absent any apprehension of a suspect. Contrary to your assertion, the US has never come close to admitting that occurs.

 

See how you twist things? Show me where I said the reporter was standing there AS it was topped.

 

Here comes the typical crap from torrid........

 

well, that's the only way they could have reported on overtopping causing a breach, right? To have been there when the breach happened?

 

What you saw on TV was not the breach, but the afteraffects of the breach. What the ACS claimed was that overtopping CAUSED the breach. Which was false.

[Snuff 10]

What you saw on TV was not the breach, but the afteraffects of the breach. What the ACS claimed was that overtopping CAUSED the breach. Which was false.

 

No, we saw the water go over the levee, and that was it. It didn't break or anything. Not on that part of the levee anyways.

The History Channel actually followed this up nicely. Wish I could remember the name of it (the documentary).

[MDC 5,902]

It's really funny but kind of sad how easily torridjoe jerks you guys around. Strike and Snuff both come off like a bunch of pathetic, obsessive little freaks - Tweedle-Dumb and Tweedle-Dumberer.

[torridjoe 0]

No, we saw the water go over the levee, and that was it. It didn't break or anything. Not on that part of the levee anyways.

The History Channel actually followed this up nicely. Wish I could remember the name of it (the documentary).

 

then what's your point? I was discussing the two main city levees that were breached, and the ACS's initial claim for why they breached. What you saw on TV regarding NON-breached levees, seems strangely irrelevant.

[Snuff 10]

It's really funny but kind of sad how easily torridjoe jerks you guys around. Strike and Snuff both come off like a bunch of pathetic, obsessive little freaks - Tweedle-Dumb and Tweedle-Dumberer.

 

Aw, did someone hurt your little feelings little guy?

torrid ain't jerkin no one around, he knows what he posted. I know you know as well, you're just his little butt buddy because you share the same views on politics and the Iraq war. Simple as that ya lil butt plug.

 

MDC = Bush sucks!

 

then what's your point? I was discussing the two main city levees that were breached, and the ACS's initial claim for why they breached. What you saw on TV regarding NON-breached levees, seems strangely irrelevant.

 

I still think it's Wheaties.

[Snuff 10]

"But the system was also overwhelmed in significant ways by Hurricane Katrina, and some degree of flooding would have happened even if the floodwalls had not been topped by the surging waters, the report stated."

 

Of course torrid didn't quote this part of the article. I am shocked torrid!

[torridjoe 0]

"But the system was also overwhelmed in significant ways by Hurricane Katrina, and some degree of flooding would have happened even if the floodwalls had not been topped by the surging waters, the report stated."

 

Of course torrid didn't quote this part of the article. I am shocked torrid!

 

It's not relevant to what I was discussing at the time. Some several days later, the analyses began coming in with respect to the outer levees further from land, which were indeed overtopped. I never said NO wouldn't have flooded without the 17th Street and Industrial failures. But we all know that the vast majority of city flooding occurred as the result of those two.

[Snuff 10]

But we all know that the vast majority of city flooding occurred as the result of those two.

 

I agree, just pointing out that you were wrong in your initial thought. Remember, I SAID give it time until more studies could be done. And you did. You obeyed me.

[Vikings4ever 496]

Just figured I'd throw in this link

[gocolts 300]

Just figured I'd throw in this link

 

SLAM

[Strike 3,998]

Several outside engineering panels that have been critical of the Army Corps of Engineers have come to similar conclusions about the failures of the region's hurricane protection system, and have found a more extensive chain of flaws in the design, construction and maintenance of the 350-mile levee system.

 

I'll simply respond to this SINGLE quote. This is your evidence? Without any percentages being associated to the three causes listed in this sentence, if we assume they were all equal at BEST the maintenance issues accounted for 1/3 of the cause of the levees. In more probability, if you were to do ANY unbiased research instead of cherry picking quotes that you think substantiate your weak arguments, it's quite clear that the maintenance issue was minor at best. It's ridiculous for you to cling to such a weak argument in the face of substantial evidence to the contrary. But hey, illegal immigrants aren't committing crimes either, right Osama Bin Torrid?

[torridjoe 0]

I agree, just pointing out that you were wrong in your initial thought. Remember, I SAID give it time until more studies could be done. And you did. You obeyed me.

 

No, I was right. My initial thought was that overtopping did not breach the 17th Street Canal. I was correct.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

No, I was right. My initial thought was that overtopping did not breach the 17th Street Canal. I was correct.

 

 

You also said Katrina didn't cause the flooding.

[torridjoe 0]

I'll simply respond to this SINGLE quote. This is your evidence? Without any percentages being associated to the three causes listed in this sentence, if we assume they were all equal at BEST the maintenance issues accounted for 1/3 of the cause of the levees. In more probability, if you were to do ANY unbiased research instead of cherry picking quotes that you think substantiate your weak arguments, it's quite clear that the maintenance issue was minor at best. It's ridiculous for you to cling to such a weak argument in the face of substantial evidence to the contrary. But hey, illegal immigrants aren't committing crimes either, right Osama Bin Torrid?

 

I'll simply respond with this single quote:

 

3) It wasn't disrepair that caused the flooding. That's why it's impossible to have an intelligent conversation with you. There has to be agreement at least on FACTS, and the facts show that the flooding was caused by many things but the one thing it wasn't was maintenance.

 

When you're ready to post the link that shows 1/3 = 0, come on back.

 

 

You also said Katrina didn't cause the flooding.

 

And that's also correct. It was the failure of the levees, not the strength of the storm, that predominantly caused the flooding.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

And that's also correct. It was the failure of the levees, not the strength of the storm, that predominantly caused the flooding.

 

So the levees were gonna fail that day and NO was flooding even if Katrina wasn't there.

 

Gotcha.

[torridjoe 0]

So the levees were gonna fail that day and NO was flooding even if Katrina wasn't there.

 

Gotcha.

By this rationale, if I push open a door to a building that is completely infested by termites who have worn away the support beams, and in so doing the building collapses, the cause of the building collapse would be ultimately determined as me opening the door.

[Snuff 10]

No, I was right. My initial thought was that overtopping did not breach the 17th Street Canal. I was correct.

 

torrid torrid torrid, you know thats bs. Why do I even bother?

Anyways, at the time, we were NOT talking about the 17th street canal. At the TIME. Only when more and more reports came out is when you even brought up the 17th, probably to try and reinforce your thought, as you do so often. Take one snippet and pass it on as "evidence" or "fact" in a much bigger picture. So yeah, I guess in your own mixed up way's, you were right.

But in mine and many others, you were wrong. Dead wrong.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

By this rationale, if I push open a door to a building that is completely infested by termites who have worn away the support beams, and in so doing the building collapses, the cause of the building collapse would be ultimately determined as me opening the door.

 

Crassic Turbinspin.

 

Why don't you find one of these rotted out buildings and test your theory.

[Strike 3,998]

I'll simply respond with this single quote:

When you're ready to post the link that shows 1/3 = 0, come on back.

And that's also correct. It was the failure of the levees, not the strength of the storm, that predominantly caused the flooding.

 

LOL how you got that from what I wrote I'll never know. Your ability to understand gets worse all the time. Oh, is it still not illegal to commit a crime or did they change that law? LOL

[torridjoe 0]

torrid torrid torrid, you know thats bs. Why do I even bother?

Anyways, at the time, we were NOT talking about the 17th street canal. At the TIME. Only when more and more reports came out is when you even brought up the 17th, probably to try and reinforce your thought, as you do so often. Take one snippet and pass it on as "evidence" or "fact" in a much bigger picture. So yeah, I guess in your own mixed up way's, you were right.

But in mine and many others, you were wrong. Dead wrong.

 

Nope. I brought it up from the start, because it was the one that was reported first and most often. Right from the beginning, the discussion was about the 17th Street, and the ACS's opinion on what caused it. The wind and water data I supplied referred to the points as near the 17th Street as I could find.

 

Who cares how many people think I'm wrong? I know for a fact I was right. I think you're just trying to make stuff up because it kills you that I was exactly correct to say the ACS was wrong, and I was proven right just a couple weeks later.

 

LOL how you got that from what I wrote I'll never know. Your ability to understand gets worse all the time. Oh, is it still not illegal to commit a crime or did they change that law? LOL

 

What you wrote was that maintenance played no part. When shown to be completely wrong, you backed up to "1/3 responsible" and now pretend that you never said maintenance wasn't one of the reasons.

 

that's how I got that from what you wrote--because I simply repeated back to you exactly what you wrote. Those are your own words, you've hung yourself with.

[gocolts 300]

Man turdjoe-osama really helps the case for liberalism is a mental disorder.You are one twisted,America-hating,Military-loathing,nauseating,foul human-being.

 

:puking:

[Strike 3,998]

What you wrote was that maintenance played no part. When shown to be completely wrong, you backed up to "1/3 responsible" and now pretend that you never said maintenance wasn't one of the reasons.

 

that's how I got that from what you wrote--because I simply repeated back to you exactly what you wrote. Those are your own words, you've hung yourself with.

 

LOL. Yeah, that's what I wrote traitor boy

 

PS - Mike we need a better rolleyes smiley.

[torridjoe 0]

the one thing it wasn't was maintenance.

 

the maintenance issues accounted for 1/3 of the cause of the levees.

 

 

clear enough?

[Strike 3,998]

clear enough?

 

Cherry picking quotes to support your unsupportable argument again. *YAWN*.

[Snuff 10]

Nope. I brought it up from the start, because it was the one that was reported first and most often. Right from the beginning, the discussion was about the 17th Street, and the ACS's opinion on what caused it. The wind and water data I supplied referred to the points as near the 17th Street as I could find.

 

Who cares how many people think I'm wrong? I know for a fact I was right. I think you're just trying to make stuff up because it kills you that I was exactly correct to say the ACS was wrong, and I was proven right just a couple weeks later.

 

buuuullchit. And you know it but won't admit it. So focking typical of you, it doesn't surprise me anymore.

 

You are neither a good American nor a man. You have nothing but bad to say about our troops and war effort and have never admitted you were wrong, even in the illegal immigrants thread. You are a weak man torrid.

[Strike 3,998]

Who cares how many people think I'm wrong? I know for a fact I was right.

 

Now this is rich. "I know for a fact I was right". LOL. Like when you said it wasn't a crime to be an illegal alien and then backtracked on it? Maybe the reason you have 0 credibility here and can't entertain an intelligent discussion with anyone, not even Fartfish or GoColts, is that you LIE and spin things when people show you're wrong, and won't EVER EVER admit that you're wrong. That's why other, intelligent posters, can have a good discussion around here without it degrading into this crap that happens in EVERY thread you're involved in. No, it couldn't be that. You could never be wrong. LOL