will Vermeil's departure affect LJ

[Super Cubs 132]

Vermeil took Faulk a above average RB and turned him into a superstar. Holmes went from a 500 yard and 2 TD monster in Baltimore to a superstar in Vermeil's system. LJ had limited success until '05 when he finially got his chance to shine with 1700+ yards and 20 rushing TDs in Vermeil's system. How will Vermeil's departure affect LJ in '06? Will he repeat his '05 performance or can we expect Curtis Martin like numbers about 1300 yards and 10 tds under Herm Edwards?

[t.j 35]

I think it will. Moreso the departure of both Vermeil and Al Saunders. I'm not a big fan of Vermeil but I do think he's a significantly better head coach than Herm Edwards. And Saunders is one of the best in the business as an offensive coordinator and play-caller. His loss will hurt the KC offense, and the downgrade at head coach will have a general negative effect on the team... which usually has an effect on the production of the running game (better teams get to run more).

[Savage Beast 1]

Herm Edwards is a very RB friendly head coach. Remember in 2004 his starting RB Curtis Martin was the NFL's Leading rusher.

[t.j 35]

Herm Edwards is a very RB friendly head coach. Remember in 2004 his starting RB Curtis Martin was the NFL's Leading rusher.

 

That was primarily due to the ultra-conservative play-calling of then-Jets OC Paul Hackett. To be honest I don't know who will be calling plays for KC this year, but I doubt they will be as pass-unfriendly as Hackett. Check out this quote by former Jets WR Wayne Chrebet:

 

You know what? It's tough because I try not to speak bad about people. But I don't have anything really nice to say about [Hackett].

[Kitsnow 0]

It will suffer that is why i always thought him to be the #3 pick and not the #1 in many drafts. No new coach sticks with the old coaches system they want to define themselves. Not to say they won't run the ball.

[Manifest Destiny 0]

It should not hurt his value at all. Edwards has already stopped any RBBC controversy. Plus the main reason that Holmes and Johnson put up incredible numbers is due to the fact that KC has an awesome OL, all of which are returning this year.

[Kitsnow 0]

Awsomely old.

Now wait a moment while I myself because I couldn't resist.

[VaTerp 0]

This thread features an old question answersed w/ assumptions w/o the support of any real info or knowledge.

 

Yeah, Marshall Faulk was just an above average RB before Vermeil. Faulk was one of the more talented RB's to come into the league, put up solid #'s w/ an inconsitent Indy club before falling into the perfect fit w/ the Rams, Vermeil, and Martz.

 

Holmes and Johnson definetly benefitted from Vermeil's and Saunders offense as well but they both have talent.

 

Mike Solari, the O-line coach under Saunders and Vermeil will be the new OC in KC. A former O-line coach calling plays for a def. minded head coach. Im sure they will be airing the ball out all over the place.

 

C-Mart only had a lot of rushing yds b/c Hackett was so conservative. That had nothing to do w/ Edwards either.

 

And what makes Edwards such a downgrade from Vermeil? I guess you can make that argument but I dont see it that way.

 

The fact is that Edwards is a def. minded coach and that the KC def. should be better than it was last year from a personnel and scheme perspective. This should only help the running game.

 

Sure, a coaching change, especially the loss of Saunders, could hurt LJ's #'s, but presumably no more than the loss of Hutchinson will hurt SA or the loss of Brees will hurt Tomlinson.

[Savage Beast 1]

This thread features an old question answersed w/ assumptions w/o the support of any real info or knowledge.

 

Yeah, Marshall Faulk was just an above average RB before Vermeil. Faulk was one of the more talented RB's to come into the league, put up solid #'s w/ an inconsitent Indy club before falling into the perfect fit w/ the Rams, Vermeil, and Martz.

 

Holmes and Johnson definetly benefitted from Vermeil's and Saunders offense as well but they both have talent.

 

Mike Solari, the O-line coach under Saunders and Vermeil will be the new OC in KC. A former O-line coach calling plays for a def. minded head coach. Im sure they will be airing the ball out all over the place.

 

C-Mart only had a lot of rushing yds b/c Hackett was so conservative. That had nothing to do w/ Edwards either.

 

And what makes Edwards such a downgrade from Vermeil? I guess you can make that argument but I dont see it that way.

 

The fact is that Edwards is a def. minded coach and that the KC def. should be better than it was last year from a personnel and scheme perspective. This should only help the running game.

 

Sure, a coaching change, especially the loss of Saunders, could hurt LJ's #'s, but presumably no more than the loss of Hutchinson will hurt SA or the loss of Brees will hurt Tomlinson.

 

What he said.

[t.j 35]

Mike Solari, the O-line coach under Saunders and Vermeil will be the new OC in KC. A former O-line coach calling plays for a def. minded head coach. Im sure they will be airing the ball out all over the place.

 

Thanks for clearing up who will be calling the playoffs. A Solari/Edwards combination does figure to be run-oriented. I gues the main question is how effective will they be as coaches in general?

 

And what makes Edwards such a downgrade from Vermeil? I guess you can make that argument but I dont see it that way.

 

I think Edwards is one of the worst coaches in the league. I don't think he will be able to get most players to respond to him, which was something Vermeil was one of the best at. Edwards has a very melodromatic approach that many of Vermeil's former players are likely to tune out, and on top of that he hasn't shown me anything in terms of Xs and Os.

 

The fact is that Edwards is a def. minded coach and that the KC def. should be better than it was last year from a personnel and scheme perspective. This should only help the running game.

 

We'll see about that. They added Tamba Hali, and injury-prone Kendrell Bell should be back, but they're still coached by Gunther Cunningham. But consider this also: Teams actually did not run much against the Chiefs, so the KC running game was getting the ball back pretty quickly. In part because of the effective offense being run by Vermeil/Saunders, teams threw on KC like crazy. They had the 6th-most incomplete passes against, which made for longer games and more opportunities for the KC offense.

 

My prediction is, the Chief offense will not be as good this year, they won't be ahead as often as a result, and that will lead to more rushing by KC opponents and less rushing by KC.

[VaTerp 0]

I think Edwards is one of the worst coaches in the league. I don't think he will be able to get most players to respond to him, which was something Vermeil was one of the best at. Edwards has a very melodromatic approach that many of Vermeil's former players are likely to tune out, and on top of that he hasn't shown me anything in terms of Xs and Os.

 

Your calling Edwards melodramatic? Vermeil is well known for his prospensity to shed tears on a daily basis. And while you can question his X's and O's, as you can almost all head coaches in the league, there is no doubt that he commands the respect of his players.He played in the league for 7 season, several under Vermeil, and is generally regarded as a players coach.

 

So to say that the players will tune him out is just a poorly formed opinion based soley on your personal dislike of Edwards for whatever reason.

[ellisonb11 0]

they did lose saunders and vermeil, but i believe LJ will still be a beast under Herm. He will be committed to the run, and he will pound the ball down the field as much as he can.

[t.j 35]

Your calling Edwards melodramatic? Vermeil is well known for his prospensity to shed tears on a daily basis. And while you can question his X's and O's, as you can almost all head coaches in the league, there is no doubt that he commands the respect of his players.He played in the league for 7 season, several under Vermeil, and is generally regarded as a players coach.

 

So to say that the players will tune him out is just a poorly formed opinion based soley on your personal dislike of Edwards for whatever reason.

 

Yes, Edwards is melodramatic. Vermeil is very emotional but it is totally different from Edwards. Vermeil loves his players to death and puts his heart and soul into bonding with them. Vermeil seems cheesy to me but I guess you have to be there, because the fact is pretty much all of his players love him. Whereas Edwards' approach is laden with sarcasm, incredulousness, and clichés. This is not a poorly-formed opinion, this is what he is. I'm sure he commands the respect of some of his players, but I doubt he commands as much respect as the average NFL head coach.

[Savage Beast 1]

Vermeil is very emotional but it is totally different from Edwards. Vermeil loves his players to death and puts his heart and soul into bonding with them.

 

And this makes him a better fit than Edwards for a good rushing attack?

[t.j 35]

And this makes him a better fit than Edwards for a good rushing attack?

 

Don't take that sentence out of context. The way he gets players to respond to him is but a part of what makes Vermeil an overall better head coach than Edwards. And having a better overall head coach leads to having an overall better team, which leads to better rushing production. It would be one thing if Edwards was leading a team of his own kind of guys, but I don't think he's a good fit for coaching players that are used to Vermeil.

[Savage Beast 1]

Don't take that sentence out of context. That's but a part of what makes Vermeil an overall better head coach than Edwards. And having a better overall head coach leads to having an overall better team, which leads to better rushing production.

 

 

[VaTerp 0]

Yes, Edwards is melodramatic. Vermeil is very emotional but it is totally different from Edwards. Vermeil loves his players to death and puts his heart and soul into bonding with them. Vermeil seems cheesy to me but I guess you have to be there, because the fact is pretty much all of his players love him. Whereas Edwards' approach is laden with sarcasm, incredulousness, and clichés. This is not a poorly-formed opinion, this is what he is. I'm sure he commands the respect of some of his players, but I doubt he commands as much respect as the average NFL head coach.

 

 

He is sarcastic with the media not his players. There is no evidence of any problems he has had with any of his players. I think it is just your opinion and a poorly formed one at that. I would argue the other way that Edwards is among the more respected coaches by his players.

 

But I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

[t.j 35]

He is sarcastic with the media not his players.

 

I don't buy that for a second.

 

But I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

 

[Savage Beast 1]

But I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

 

This kind of response is not allowed around here. You have to insult him and degrade him for not agreeing with you. It's in the forum rules.

[t.j 35]

This kind of response is not allowed around here. You have to insult him and degrade him for not agreeing with you. It's in the forum rules.

 

[VaTerp 0]

This kind of response is not allowed around here. You have to insult him and degrade him for not agreeing with you. It's in the forum rules.

 

Thats actually pretty funny.

 

For argument's sake, does anyone else have any opinions on Edwards as a coach, specifically in regards to ability to relate to players. I do find tj' take to be VERY well . . . . . . . wrong.

[Savage Beast 1]

I do find tj' take to be VERY well . . . . . . . wrong.

 

This is a good start. However you forgot to insult his mother and stress his blatant homosexual tendencies.

[t.j 35]

Thats actually pretty funny.

 

For argument's sake, does anyone else have any opinions on Edwards as a coach, specifically in regards to ability to relate to players. I do find tj' take to be VERY well . . . . . . . wrong.

 

I'd be interested to hear more opinions on Edwards as well. He's a huge media darling because he consistently panders to the media and is always good for a quote. But I know the Jets fans largely soured on him and obviously the Jets organization did as well.

[Vikings4ever 496]

For the record, LJ got his first chance to shine in 2004, putting up 498 rushing yards, 233 receiving yards, and 10 TDs in the last 5 weeks.

[t.j 35]

For the record, LJ got his first chance to shine in 2004, putting up 498 rushing yards, 233 receiving yards, and 10 TDs in the last 5 weeks.

 

Agreed. It's not really accurate for people to say he burst onto the scene in 2005.

[cmh6476 759]

if only for the better

 

But I know the Jets fans largely soured on him and obviously the Jets organization did as well.

only cause he left them for a better franchise

 

Actually, the players have been reporting that Vermeil and Edwards are very similar in their relationship with the players, which everyone seems to like. Which isn't that hard to believe since Edwards came up playing for vermeil. They both seem to truly care about their players and are not only interested in how they are doing on the field, but off the field as well. I honestly think this coaching change can only be for the better. Vermeil had too many yes men around him, and with the personnel changes there is more of an emphasis to push all the players for better performance. I read something yesterday where the D-Line has the line working harder than almost any other line in the league, I can post the quote for anyone if you're interested. They were mentioning how the linemen have to be in the best physical shape possible,a nd they are going to push them and push them to help them get there.

[eo11 0]

Vermeil took Faulk a above average RB and turned him into a superstar. Holmes went from a 500 yard and 2 TD monster in Baltimore to a superstar in Vermeil's system. LJ had limited success until '05 when he finially got his chance to shine with 1700+ yards and 20 rushing TDs in Vermeil's system. How will Vermeil's departure affect LJ in '06? Will he repeat his '05 performance or can we expect Curtis Martin like numbers about 1300 yards and 10 tds under Herm Edwards?

 

 

Vermeil leaving will certainly affect LJ in that he will finally start the season 9as he should have the last three) as the number 1 running back on the depth chart.

 

Vermeil was the only thing holding LJ back from being better than Holmes.

[NOSRAC247 0]

Man, interesting point of view. I was looking at taking LJ as my number one pick this year, now I'm having some doubts. Although, Herm did a decent job with Martin didn't he? Vermeil defintely is a better coach, you can't argue that. I think you might be looking into it a little much. You know LJ's gonna get the ball, many times, and it's not like their line is going to play any differenlty because of a new coach. I think he'll be aight, still worthy of a top 3 pick

[xxx 0]

Vermeil leaving will certainly affect LJ in that he will finally start the season 9as he should have the last three) as the number 1 running back on the depth chart.

 

Vermeil was the only thing holding LJ back from being better than Holmes.

 

Can you imagine what LJ is capable of now that he actually has his HC behind him, instead of always holding him back and propogating the image that he is not a team player as Vermeil did? I bet LJ can scarcely wait for the season to start so that he can bowl over SAs TD record.

[gatorbait7391 0]

duh. of course it will effect, and LJ will be mediocre.

[VaTerp 0]

Now that I think about it. Vermeil once referred to LJ by saying that he "needed to take his diapers off". Im sure that LJ really had a lot more respect for Vermeil than he will ever have for Edwards.

 

TJ, you may becorrect that Vermeil is a better coach but your reasoning is totally flawed. Please show me one example of anytime when one of Edwards players has had a direct problem with one of his players. To say that the Chiefs will not respect him is complete nonsense.

[Dr. Octopus 0]

Thats actually pretty funny.

 

For argument's sake, does anyone else have any opinions on Edwards as a coach, specifically in regards to ability to relate to players. I do find tj' take to be VERY well . . . . . . . wrong.

 

 

I do disagree with tj on that issue, as a Jets fan. Motivating players and getting those players to "run through walls" for him is Edward's greatest strength as a head coach, one of his few strengths for that matter. He is a terible x and o coach, terrible at clock management and he is too conservative. I will also disagree that it was Hackett who made the offense so conservative. It was just as conservative, if not more so, under Heimerdinger last season, although the Jets' QBs dropping like flies certainly didn't help matters. I think Edwards wants his OCs to be conservative.

 

I think generally players really like playing for him and his speeches and motivational tactics were almost legendary in Jets land, although by the time he left most fans would have paid for his plane ticket.

[t.j 35]

I will also disagree that it was Hackett who made the offense so conservative. It was just as conservative, if not more so, under Heimerdinger last season, although the Jets' QBs dropping like flies certainly didn't help matters.

 

Heimerdinger is not a conservative coach. Last year had everything to do with Brooks Bollinger & co.

 

I think Edwards wants his OCs to be conservative.

 

It's possible, but Hackett was definitely a special case.

 

by the time he left most fans would have paid for his plane ticket.

 

Yep. Suck it, cmh!

[cmh6476 759]

Herm's never had an offense as good as the one he is taking over. He's going to step back, and let Mike Solari and crew do as best they can at keeping the previous gameplan in place. There will also be more of an emphasis on pounding the ball to control the clock and keep the D off the field, but he's not going to be afraid to air it out either. The O-Line is in tact and one of the best in the league. Trent Green is one of the best in the game at executing a gameplan, and the offensive skill players know the system as well as the playbook.

 

Last year's Jets offense wasn't anywhere near what Herm is now inheriting, and I doubt we resort back to Martyball 2.0 when everything is in place for Vermeil/Saunders 2.0 to happen

[eo11 0]

Can you imagine what LJ is capable of now that he actually has his HC behind him, instead of always holding him back and propogating the image that he is not a team player as Vermeil did? I bet LJ can scarcely wait for the season to start so that he can bowl over SAs TD record.

 

 

exactly to be able to perform because of the head coach instead of despite the head coach

 

I am also curious what if anything the Turly addition adds.

[SoloMatisse 0]

How will Herman Edwards affect Larry Johnson???......I dont know, go ask Peyton Manning how Tony Dungy affected HIM 2 years ago?? Great players continue being great..........no matter the coach. Ask Joe Montana.....ask Walter Payton...ask Jerry Rice......Marcus Allen....etc, etc, etc, etc............

[onejayhawk 3]

Actually I see Vermiel's leaving as being a plus for LJ in the SHORT term. The play calling will get significantly more conservative, which means hand the ball to the stud RB. Normally I would say predictions of a 2000 yard season are pipe dreams, but not in this case. LJ will run the ball til he drops, and unlike Priest, he has the frame for it.

 

375 carries, 1800 yards, 20 TD, 30 catchs, 250 yards, 1 TD.

 

I consider those conservative. With that line, and a conservative game plan, the possibility of a record season is there.

 

J

[Raider 84 29]

Faulk has always been a stud.

[mdubz 0]

nope, guy's a stud no matter who's coaching.