Round 2 Commentary

[Vikings4ever 549]

Discuss

[Vikings4ever 549]

Considered going WR, but the RBs left in late round 3 don't inspire me. Davis' injuries concern me, but he's the best of what's left.

[Da Bomb 0]

love what miller did at the turn. i like both of those guys better than some of the players who had gone on before.

[Miller_Time_21 0]

love what miller did at the turn. i like both of those guys better than some of the players who had gone on before.

Tks Bomb, I actually like the turn ,as stated in rd 1, picking up Willis at this point is great for me. I have him ranked 8th, which is higher then most, so in my eyes, I'm getting good value. Plus I get the opp to take the #1 WR on my board as well. Though about following the run and taking Dom, but I'd rather start the run then finish it, so TO got the nod.

[remote controller 143]

I got Westy at 2.08 in the June Mock, but he is the back I am targeting in the 2nd.

 

Tks Bomb, I actually like the turn ,as stated in rd 1, picking up Willis at this point is great for me. I have him ranked 8th, which is higher then most, so in my eyes, I'm getting good value. Plus I get the opp to take the #1 WR on my board as well. Though about following the run and taking Dom, but I'd rather start the run then finish it, so TO got the nod.

Miller, what is it you see in the Willis picture that intrigues you? Is the Qb situation gonna improve? What affect will the loss of Moulds have. Is Price better? Is it in the line?....or is it just gut?

[Fumbleweed 543]

Man, that RB-RB combo looks familiar, Vikes.......Rudi & Domanick....

 

Where have I seen that before?

[-jb- 0]

Early comments - Fumble is going to have a tough time coming back from a very questionable start. I don't know what he was thinking.

[NAn 39]

On a couple players I WANT to like them, just need to hear more.

 

DD

Rudy/DD could be an awesome start...I just have my concerns with DD yet to play a full season.

I like the counter that Kubiak passed on Bush so faith in DD...but that could also be Kube saying 'I can have an rb, or worse rbs, do well'.

As shanny/kube showed last couple years...they'd like to go with a single rb to get job done, but not opposed to using 2-3 if that's what it takes.

 

MCAGHEE

I just keep hearing about the touches he'll get...still concerned with so much in Buf though: low ypc, bad def (no short fields, maybe not so many touches), losman, etc.

 

 

WESTBROOK

Again, a guy who can be a semi-stud....when he plays.

Also yet to play a full season.

[Da Bomb 0]

i also like mcgahee a lot this year, so i'll build my case for him.

 

one, mcgahee did have 1250 yards last year, which was not all that terrible of a season. i think thats top 10 in yardage. just that his TDs were down.

 

two, he did it on a low-ish number of carries, since six times he had only 16 or less carries, and three times just single digit carries. if you look at the few games buffalo did win last year, they all showed a commitment to the run. dont think that will go unnoticed.

 

three, improvements to buffalo are there. the drop from moulds to price is significant, but evans' development should make up for that. two, buffalo has given losman a chance and is going with holcomb now. hes not going to set the world on fire, but losman will have to actually be better if he wants a chance now. also theres some improvement on the offensive line, and the biggest improvement, imo, will be ###### jauron. hes not a great coach, but if theres one thing he does, its stick to the run.

 

fourth, and the biggest reason for me, is that mcgahee is a full 2 years removed from his horrific knee injury finally. history shows that it usually takes a full 2 years for a player to make it back from an acl injury, and mcgahee has finally had a full offseason to train and be ready and in shape for this year. take a look at edge and jamal lewis, both had their career years the 2nd full year back after the injury. i think that is HUGE for me.

[Clash of the Titans 1]

steve smith is #2 on my wr board now.....#1 in my heart for having the fighting heart of a champion for every ball..

 

after mcgahee the backs all drop significantly into another tier for me so why not snatch an elite wr to pair with ronnie brown in a start 3 wr league

[Fumbleweed 543]

I always forget how RB-crazy this draft is..........

[thedanzone 2]

I got Westy at 2.08 in the June Mock, but he is the back I am targeting in the 2nd.

 

I was hoping to copy your June mock ang get him to pair with Tiki.

[Miller_Time_21 0]

Miller, what is it you see in the Willis picture that intrigues you? Is the Qb situation gonna improve? What affect will the loss of Moulds have. Is Price better? Is it in the line?....or is it just gut?

Well Bomb hit on most of it, but a few things to add. Buffalo had alot of injuries last year and just never seemed to figure out "who" they were. They had no identity on the entire team, let alone on offense. Juron will make their identity Willis IMO. Reports are he is in fantastic shape and reasy to go, another year from the injury is a good thing as well. The overall situation is not ideal, but his talent is. I feel this year, his talent will rise above the situation.

[remote controller 143]

I always forget how RB-crazy this draft is..........

No crazier than the June Mock.

[FantasyKing 4]

Where's our frickin alternate!!!

[Fumbleweed 543]

No crazier than the June Mock.

 

I would disagree with that somewhat....respectfully. Just look at where you got Brian Westbrook this draft as compared to last. By and large the RB pool thins out quicker in this one traditionally, but we'll see how it shakes out.

[remote controller 143]

I would disagree with that somewhat....respectfully. Just look at where you got Brian Westbrook this draft as compared to last. By and large the RB pool thins out quicker in this one traditionally, but we'll see how it shakes out.

Through 16 picks they are almost cookie cutter. 14 backs and 2 wideouts in this draft, and 13 backs and 3 wideouts in that one. The reason Westbrook is gone now is because I like him. Jamal was gone by now in the June Mock, and Westy now in this one. Otherwise they are the same, save the one extra wideout.

 

LJ----SA

SA---LJ

LT---LT

Portis---Portis

Tiki----Tiki

Jackson--Edge

Edge--Jackson

Jordan--Jordan

Brown--Brown

Caddy-- Caddy

Rudi-- Owens

Owens--Rudi

McGehee--Dom

Dom-- S. Smith

Westy-- CJ

S. Smith--Jamal

[Fumbleweed 543]

Through 16 picks they are almost cookie cutter. 14 backs and 2 wideouts in this draft, and 13 backs and 3 wideouts in that one. The reason Westbrook is gone now is because I like him. Jamal was gone by now in the June Mock, and Westy now in this one. Otherwise they are the same, save the one extra wideout.

 

LJ----SA

SA---LJ

LT---LT

Portis---Portis

Tiki----Tiki

Jackson--Edge

Edge--Jackson

Jordan--Jordan

Brown--Brown

Caddy-- Caddy

Rudi-- Owens

Owens--Rudi

McGehee--Dom

Dom-- S. Smith

Westy-- CJ

S. Smith--Jamal

 

We'll compare again a couple of rounds down the road......I guarantee you that the backs who were availabe late third, early fourth in the June Mock won't be available here..........

[remote controller 143]

We'll compare again a couple of rounds down the road......I guarantee you that the backs who were availabe late third, early fourth in the June Mock won't be available here..........

You're might be right. I just felt it seemed similar to this point. I guess I don't have a memory like yours in my old age

[Fumbleweed 543]

You're might be right. I just felt it seemed similar to this point. I guess I don't have a memory like yours in my old age

 

Too many fires, too many fires..........

[remote controller 143]

Too many fires, too many fires..........

That ain't no joke. Been out on 4 in the last 48 hours.

[NAn 39]

BTW, re: Mcaghee

 

I don't doubt the kids talent and you guys make good pts for why he could do well.

 

My thing is with what you say, I could definitely see a yardage guy, but talent or no, he's still just one guy.

 

Meaning, I could see yardage yes, but tds not so much, b/c see def/off overall not being very good...so long fields and likely not as many gl/rz opportunities as you'd like in your #1rb, early 2nd rnd pick.

 

I'd be curious how many short flds/gl tds Mcaghee had 2 yrs ago, when off/def was solid.

[Da Bomb 0]

BTW, re: Mcaghee

 

I don't doubt the kids talent and you guys make good pts for why he could do well.

 

My thing is with what you say, I could definitely see a yardage guy, but talent or no, he's still just one guy.

 

Meaning, I could see yardage yes, but tds not so much, b/c see def/off overall not being very good...so long fields and likely not as many gl/rz opportunities as you'd like in your #1rb, early 2nd rnd pick.

 

I'd be curious how many short flds/gl tds Mcaghee had 2 yrs ago, when off/def was solid.

 

but whats the diff between mcgahee and a guy like tomlinson? brees was above average finally last year or two, but for most of his career he's been on a team with a mediocre line, mediocre offense, and mediocre defense. if a guy is talented enough, he will rise above it all. and if mcgahee is as healthy as he was before the horrific injury, then imo, he is talented enough.

[remote controller 143]

but whats the diff between mcgahee and a guy like tomlinson? brees was above average finally last year or two, but for most of his career he's been on a team with a mediocre line, mediocre offense, and mediocre defense. if a guy is talented enough, he will rise above it all. and if mcgahee is as healthy as he was before the horrific injury, then imo, he is talented enough.

I can't put McGahee in Tomlinson's class, pre-injury, as far as all around backs go. He was a great runner but didn't have LT's total game.

[NAn 39]

hey fellas, i'm in! i did think that it was a m-f thing.

 

sorry for going dark.

 

JB

no worries jb...we are 'off clock' for the weekend (though we'd like to keep it moving) just wanted to make sure you knew you were in.

 

we're good.

 

BOMB/DANZONE

I have Falco's pick, will likely email to Bomb, who has Erb's pick so he can just put them both in back2back...then Dan you'll be up.

[ShaneFalco 0]

JB

no worries jb...we are 'off clock' for the weekend (though we'd like to keep it moving) just wanted to make sure you knew you were in.

 

we're good.

 

BOMB/DANZONE

I have Falco's pick, will likely email to Bomb, who has Erb's pick so he can just put them both in back2back...then Dan you'll be up.

 

I'll be around in the morning to make my pick. I only gave you two players and I was three picks away anyway. I was gone earlier this afternoon and thought I might have to pick. I'll be around almost all day tomorrow.

[NAn 39]

but whats the diff between mcgahee and a guy like tomlinson? brees was above average finally last year or two, but for most of his career he's been on a team with a mediocre line, mediocre offense, and mediocre defense. if a guy is talented enough, he will rise above it all. and if mcgahee is as healthy as he was before the horrific injury, then imo, he is talented enough.

 

First off, I echo RC's comments that I don't see Mcaghee same talent-wise as LT.

 

Second, this may shed some light...over LT's career with Bolts here are the rankings each year:

YR PASS COMP PASS YDS DEF RNK(OVERALL)

'01 18 13 10

'02 17 23 30

'03 20 22 27

'04 21 18 18

'05 8 12 13

 

This is why I do this...sometimes get insight contrary to my initial thinking...though this could go either way.

 

Keying on years in bold, '02/'03, Bolts had poor defense overall, passing game was middle-lower of the nfl rankings and LT still did well.

 

So conceivable, if Buf def is bad, if Losman can get passing game in that range, Mcaghee 'could' do well.

 

Still brings up two things to consider:

1. Can Losman get those numbers in is first year as starter?

2. See original pt...is Mcaghee as talented as LT?

[Da Bomb 0]

First off, I echo RC's comments that I don't see Mcaghee same talent-wise as LT.

 

Second, this may shed some light...over LT's career with Bolts here are the rankings each year:

YR PASS COMP PASS YDS DEF RNK(OVERALL)

'01 18 13 10

'02 17 23 30

'03 20 22 27

'04 21 18 18

'05 8 12 13

 

This is why I do this...sometimes get insight contrary to my initial thinking...though this could go either way.

 

Keying on years in bold, '02/'03, Bolts had poor defense overall, passing game was middle-lower of the nfl rankings and LT still did well.

 

So conceivable, if Buf def is bad, if Losman can get passing game in that range, Mcaghee 'could' do well.

 

Still brings up two things to consider:

1. Can Losman get those numbers in is first year as starter?

2. See original pt...is Mcaghee as talented as LT?

 

with mcgahee, we'll never know how high he wouldve been drafted pre-injury, but he was basically #1 on all the early draft boards, or 1b with carson palmer. he was basically a top 5 pick lock, and in my not-too-knowledgeable opinion, was a better prospect coming out than tomlinson. and to be fair, he hasnt really had a healthy shot yet. but even in his two non-healthy seasons, hes put up very solid fantasy numbers. i think it speaks volumes that mcgahee tore all three ligaments in his knee and that no known sports player had ever even come back from such an injury, and yet mcgahee was still a first round pick and was still the first RB off the board, four picks before larry johnson, for whatever thats worth.

 

re: losman. one, its not his first year as a starter. he had some turns last year. two, im not positive he'll just be handed the job, and frankly, i think holcomb is the favorite for now.

 

i dont really mean that mcgahee is going to put up tomlinson numbers this year (though i think a healthy mcg could). what i do mean is that, talent-wise, i think hes got more talent than a lot of those RBs who have gone on before like davis, rudi, brown, cadillac, jordan, etc. and he certainly is in a better position than the RBs who are going after him -- i wont name them since theyre not drafted yet -- but most of whom are either young and unproven or old and running out of fumes.

 

in my opinion, the biggest thing against mcgahee right now is the kevan barlow fantasy backlash... where you see a guy have huge potential, draft him very high because of it, and then are very upset when he doesnt quite meet your impossible expectations. for mcgahee in his first year, he had 1300 yards and 13 TDs in essentially 14 games, so people had absolutely huge expectations. last year, buffalo struggled mightily, and mcgahee "only" had 1450 yards and 5 TDs. a couple more trips into the endzone, and hes still a very good fantasy player, and even without it he was an excellent #2. but because people were so hyped up by him, the fact that he didnt reach something like 1800/15 meant he was a bust. watch -- if larry johnson ends up with only 1500 combined yards and 10 TDs this year, people will do the same thing and he'll slide to the middle or bottom of the first, because people will be so disappointed that he didnt have 2500/25.

[Da Bomb 0]

re: erb's pick of peyton manning.

 

he sent me a list for this pick immediately after the 1.08 pick, lamont jordan. since that pick, and before erb's 2.06 pick, i crossed RBs off of spots 2, 3, 4, 6 on his list... and WRs off of spots 9, 10, 13, and 14... and then gave him the #1 player on his list, 10 picks later.

 

not bad, i guess.

[thedanzone 2]

I would have liked a 2nd RB here, but Holt's value and consistency seperates himself at this point I think.

[FantasyKing 4]

I would have liked a 2nd RB here, but Holt's value and consistency seperates himself at this point I think.

 

I agree with that strategy.

[FantasyKing 4]

Da Bomb - I see you here.

 

If you keep making me wait and then you take my pick...

 

You shall feel my wrath!!!!!!

 

[Da Bomb 0]

Da Bomb - I see you here.

 

If you keep making me wait and then you take my pick...

 

You shall feel my wrath!!!!!!

 

 

how did i do?

[FantasyKing 4]

how did i do?

 

Very good my friend - I like your pick, but I was targeting Boldin and was hoping you'd let him slide. Had you taken Boldin, I definitely would've went Harrison - MH is one of my favorite players all time, but I just like Boldin's upside a lot more.

[Da Bomb 0]

Very good my friend - I like your pick, but I was targeting Boldin and was hoping you'd let him slide. Had you taken Boldin, I definitely would've went Harrison - MH is one of my favorite players all time, but I just like Boldin's upside a lot more.

 

boldin's a better player now. but harrison's the one who's going to score double digit TDs...

 

[FantasyKing 4]

boldin's a better player now. but harrison's the one who's going to score double digit TDs...

 

 

Most likely. Harrison can get 14 TDs, 1100 yards. Boldin can get 8 TDs, 1500 yards.

 

We'll call it even.

 

I haven't seen Fumble around very much so I may check in one more time before off to bed - will check first thing in the morning.

[Miller_Time_21 0]

Definatly seeing a momentum swing in this draft from a year ago. Last year, I'd be shocked if RB's were not the majority of the picks im rd 2, with 1 picks to go this year, only 3 second rd RB's to 7 WR's and 1 QB.

[NAn 39]

Definatly seeing a momentum swing in this draft from a year ago. Last year, I'd be shocked if RB's were not the majority of the picks im rd 2, with 1 picks to go this year, only 3 second rd RB's to 7 WR's and 1 QB.

 

Which is why, in this mock and likely for the real thing, after the mcgahee/DD's are off the board I'm considering going wr in the 2nd.

 

After those rb's I mentioned I really don't see any other rbs worthy of a 2nd rnd pick.

 

Think it really speaks to the 'thin' crop of top notch rbs this year.

[NAn 39]

WRs Taken Before Me

Solid picks all, everyone going right about where they should...was hoping someone would reach on a rb before me (and of rbs left I would have to call any taken a reach), so Holt would fall (who I like a lot this year) but fine with Randy

 

WRs Taken After Me

Think King's projections for Boldin, a bit high but otherwise a solid pick...had another guy ranked above him, who I'm sure will be gone soon.

Harrison is solid and who I considered beside Moss.

 

Moss

Admittedly see a slight tier drop from Fitz/Holt/CJ (LOVE Holt's value this year in particular) to Moss/Harrison's but happy to get Moss here.

I did debate between Moss and Harrison, but what it came down to me was this: You could talk about injury, done as elite, etc., what it comes down to is he only had 60 recs last year...that will not happen this year.

Games I watched last year, it wasn't that Moss wasn't open, it's that Collins was sacked, running for his life or dumping to Jordan before getting to Moss.

What happened was a double edged sword with Collins and staff trying to limit his mistakes (eventually he started making them anyway)...staff got Collins to not take big chances on an INT and instead go to his dump off, Jordan (note Jordan's 70recs, 2nd on team).

But it also prevented Randy from doing what he does best...chuck it to him deep and let him do the rest.

This year line will be improved: Gallery in true position, Shell/Slater infusing discipline attitude.

And Brooks will take those chances downfield...yes, will sometimes result in INT or poor play.

But, will also get some of those to connect with Moss/others, get a PI call deep downfield.

 

Back to the 60recs for 1005yds/8tds...

add just 80recs at his 16.0 career ypc and you're looking at 1300+yds

add 90 and you're looking at 1450+yds

90 may be reach but not impossible from a guy who has had 100+ twice in his career.

So even at 80 if you add 2-5tds (reasonable IMO) and you're looking at 1300/10-13...I'll take that with the potential for more.

[Fumbleweed 543]

Most likely. Harrison can get 14 TDs, 1100 yards. Boldin can get 8 TDs, 1500 yards.

 

We'll call it even.

 

I haven't seen Fumble around very much so I may check in one more time before off to bed - will check first thing in the morning.

 

I'm here.....I'll make a couple of picks shortly.