Thoughts on our education system...

[davebg 0]

I disagree. The parents are paying. If the kids don't show up, fail them.

 

Seems pretty simple to me?

Unfortunately, failing a large number of students will indirectly hurt those students who do attend, as it can factor into the amount of government funds that the school can get.

 

When she then went to Ridgewood, NJ (wealthy & white) to teach

Which school in Ridgewood? Mrs. DaveBG works in some Ridgewood schools. Ask your wife if she has someone come in from the Teacher's College @Columbia. If so, it might be my wife.

[pingpong 0]

Unfortunately, failing a large number of students will indirectly hurt those students who do attend, as it can factor into the amount of government funds that the school can get.

Which school in Ridgewood? Mrs. DaveBG works in some Ridgewood schools. Ask your wife if she has someone come in from the Teacher's College @Columbia. If so, it might be my wife.

She took lots of classes from TC. I know she was real fond of Lucy Calkins, and seemd to take just about anything she offered. The last class my wife took was prolly around 1996. After that Lamaze classes were her thing. She hopes to get back to teaching when my lil guy goes to school in 3-4 years.

[davebg 0]

She took lots of classes from TC. I know she was real fond of Lucy Calkins, and seemd to take just about anything she offered. The last class my wife took was prolly around 1996. After that Lamaze classes were her thing. She hopes to get back to teaching when my lil guy goes to school in 3-4 years.

Yeah, Lucy is Mrs. DaveBG's boss, but your wife was out of the classroom before Mrs. DaveBG started working for TC.

[pingpong 0]

Yeah, Lucy is Mrs. DaveBG's boss, but your wife was out of the classroom before Mrs. DaveBG started working for TC.

Small world. Did she go to Harvard and Penn? I'll tell Frau Uderpong to look for her when she starts taking classes agian.

[davebg 0]

Small world. Did she go to Harvard and Penn? I'll tell Frau Uderpong to look for her when she starts taking classes agian.

Nah, she graduated from good ol' U of Delaware (undergrad) and did her masters at Hoftstra...but she's Lucy's current reigning superstar.

[Toro 1]

Unfortunately, failing a large number of students will indirectly hurt those students who do attend, as it can factor into the amount of government funds that the school can get.

 

That needs to change. If a student is enrolled, the school should get the money whether they are there or not.

[davebg 0]

That needs to change. If a student is enrolled, the school should get the money whether they are there or not.

While I agree w/the sentiment that we shouldn't punish the students who do go to class and work hard, how else can we objectively evaluate schools?

 

Currently, standardized tests and graduation rates are what we use to evaluate the effectiveness of schools. It is far from a perfect system.

 

As noted, it punishes the good students for the behavior of the bad students.

 

Standardized testing is not wholly reliable (some students test well, while others don't; some claim that standardized testing is discriminatory) and it forces schools to change the focus of their teaching to focus too much on merely passing a test, as opposed to learning.

 

Using graduation rates to evaluate schools also encourages said schools to pass and push through students who do not deserve it and are not prepared for the next level.

 

Unfortunately, I don't know of a better way to evaluate these schools.

[pingpong 0]

Nah, she graduated from good ol' U of Delaware (undergrad) and did her masters at Hoftstra...but she's Lucy's current reigning superstar.

Funny because there is a faculty member with a hyphenated last name of B-G. Thought for sure that was Mrs DaveBG.

Tell your wife even I read "Raising Lifelong Learners". It is literally next to my bed on top of a few smutty romance novels.

[davebg 0]

Funny because there is a faculty member with a hyphenated last name of B-G. Thought for sure that was Mrs DaveBG.

Tell your wife even I read "Raising Lifelong Learners". It is literally next to my bed on top of a few smutty romance novels.

What's really funny is that if Mrs. DaveBG hyphenated her maiden name w/her married name it would be B-G as well.

[itsbigmoni 1]

We can blame the parents all we want but in the end who loses the most? Its not the kids fault they aren't raised in nurturing households. Plus, we are giving the teachers a free-pass. I'm not saying the teachers on this board fall under that category, but i graduated from high school 3 years ago so i think i have a valid opinion on teachers. About half of them go through the motions. I went to one of the better schools in my city too. Every teacher gives you free points at the end of the semester. You get free rides left and right. I still remember every teacher that had an impact on me because there were only 2. There were only two teachers trhoughout my 4 years who seemed to care about us and wanted us to learn. Who seemed to like to spread knowledge. I'm not saying i only had 2 good teachers, but only 2 that took out the time to help kids. My school has made some good steps IMO. Two days a week theres math tutoring after school with transportation and two other days there is english tutoring with transportation. They would just ride the same bus as the athletes so it worked out. Maybe its because the job wears on them or i dont know, but some teachers just read their lecture assign homework and thats it. I think it would be good to make the tutoring mandatory for anyone with anything below a C. Also, an A should be an A still. I know kids who never got an A on a single test but were active in class, did extra credit, did all the homework (most classes you just had to show you did it, and then we would go over it in class and you would make the corrections), but avg low B's and high C's but still got A's. I don't liek the whole, some kids just don't test well. Is it really too much pressure to remember what a word means? You either know the equation or you don't. Tests make it so you can't just regurgitate what you read out of a book.

[Ilov80s 0]

I appreciate all the great responses here! I am a new teacher who attended a very good private school for 12 years and am very disappointed with what I am finding in the public ed system...not surprised, just disappointed. Here are a few various thoughts I had while reading these repsonses

 

- To the comment that the class caters to the dimmest bulb of the bunch, I disagree. I have seen many classes where the special needs kids simply get ignored. Then, the teacher fudges the numbers at the end of the semester to pass them. Nobody really cares what special needs kids do, they just want them out of the way. Special Education is needed, but needs to be reworked. I see kids with math learning disabilities and perfectly normal reading abilities being allowed to cop out of all their work. There is no reason a math problem should have any effect on reading and writing in a history class. But they let the kids use it as an excuse. The they say, "well this kid is bad at writing" so don't have them do any writing. How the fock is the kid ever going to get better???

 

- To those that think private schools are so much better, think about who is going to private schools: kids who'se parents care enough about education to send them to what they perceive as a better school. The interest and involvement of the parents is important. Lets see how good private schools do when they have to take in all the kids of the uninvolved and disinterested parents.

 

 

I am using the grades in kind of an odd way. I am trying to motivate the kids. I offer a lot of extra credit. It isn't fluff. It is real work. If a kid is willing to learn more and do extra work, then I will reward them. I want every kid to have an A. I have a competition for who can get the highest grade. A couple kids are working towards a 200%. They are busting their butts and I can barely keep up.

 

If a kid doesn't get atleast a C on a test, I give it back the student and tell them to try again. I won't accept failure. This comes as a real shock to them. They are used to teachers reveling in their failure. Some kids don't care and don't try. Give them the test 5 times and they will study, if for no other reason then they are sick to death of the material. I allow kids to retake the test if they are unhappy with their score. I have kids who get 95s and then retake and get over 100%. I use their grades just as much to track their progress as I do to motivate them. I have every classes test average posted and am always encouraging them to beat out the other classes. Most of the kids seem to like the competition. I will see how it goes, but so far its going great. Any other teachers here have some tricks or ideas for motivating kids?

[jerryskids 5,216]

Basically, it's the parents. Here are some examples:

 

2) Little Johnny is failing. Little Johnny is failing because he is not doing his homework. The teacher has sent home over 5 notes fully describing the situation and actually received the notes backed signed by the parents.

I had a conference with my kid's teacher last week. Regular update, nothing bad, but she mentioned that in some cases she has given him multiple reminders about completing stuff (reminders didn't come to us). My response to her: you are giving him too many reminders. Give him one tops, then it is a zero grade. If you give umpteen reminders, they have no value. 5th grade FWIW.

 

I don't give a shiot what grades he gets in 5th grade. But I do care that he learns to take responsibility.

[TylerRoseFan 16]

THere sure are a lot of words in this thread.

[Rusty Syringes 478]

It sucks donkey testicles.

[Voltaire 4,567]

Home Schooling. There was a time in my life that I thought I could invest my own money and get rich. That decision cost me plenty of money. I thought I could do my own taxes, and also lost out on plenty of deductions. I am not ready to bet my child’s education and future on the fact that I could teach better than professional teachers with a school full of resources. Even if I did convince myself of this in my fantasy world, I certainly would not convince myself that the social interactions, the sports, the friendships would be anywhere near what the child would receive in school. There is a small community of home-schoolers in my neighborhood. I have yet to meet one of the kids that I would consider socially ‘normal’. I’m not sure how things work overseas, but in my town, home schooling does not position your child for the best transition to higher education. Why not supplement your child’s schooling with your own teachings at home if you are so convinced that you could do better at teaching than trained teachers? Get the best of both worlds. Allow your child to grow up and learn in the real world, while taking advantage of your superior teaching abilities.

 

I guess this is directed at me since I'm both the only one who's mentioned homeschooling and am also the only one that lives overseas.

 

No thanks. I don't know about your city, but my town, public school does not position your child for the best transition to higher education. I don't look forward to having my kids live with my mom and putting them in the same sh*tty school system I went through. Fortunalty, Michigan has charter schools and schools of choice now so maybe there's a chance I could send them someplace decent. But that's not my intent. I've already sold myself on homeschooling. Then there's no worry, I can make sure it's done right and done to my expectaions myself.

 

I've seen what professional teachers do and can do and I'm not impressed with the majority of them. It's far more gambling to put my kid in a school and hope for the best from a teacher that has 24 other little darlings to look after, doesn't particualy care for my kid, and generally teaches at a pace for the slowest ones. Or at lest that was my experience growing up. I see no reason why I can't teach the first 8 grades, at least, myself seeing as I know all that material already.

 

When you homeschool, not only is there about a dozen methods, but there's tons of curicullum to chose from as well. The lesson plans are written up for you to help, you just have to follow the system you like best and be able to carry it out. You can go as fast or as slow as you and your child want. I'm really not worried about that. High School is going to require a decision however.

 

I never took music or art -the side effects of my fourth rate public school education- I'm going to have to find somebody to teach that stuff to my kids. My wife can teach Chinese and Chinese history. Sports has my somach churning... the only organized sports league I can put them in is soccer or karate (if that's a sport). I'm not worried about social interaction stuff, I think that's overexagerated and I doubt you have any interactions with local Homeschool kids. There's also no bullies, speds, tards, drugs, or peer pressure in homeschool. They can get the social interaction they need from everyday real adults and from other kids in their extra-curricular activities.

[Ilov80s 0]

I guess this is directed at me since I'm both the only one who's mentioned homeschooling and am also the only one that lives overseas.

 

No thanks. I don't know about your city, but my town, public school does not position your child for the best transition to higher education. I don't look forward to having my kids live with my mom and putting them in the same sh*tty school system I went through. Fortunalty, Michigan has charter schools and schools of choice now so maybe there's a chance I could send them someplace decent. But that's not my intent. I've already sold myself on homeschooling. Then there's no worry, I can make sure it's done right and done to my expectaions myself.

 

I've seen what professional teachers do and can do and I'm not impressed with the majority of them. It's far more gambling to put my kid in a school and hope for the best from a teacher that has 24 other little darlings to look after, doesn't particualy care for my kid, and generally teaches at a pace for the slowest ones. Or at lest that was my experience growing up. I see no reason why I can't teach the first 8 grades, at least, myself seeing as I know all that material already.

 

When you homeschool, not only is there about a dozen methods, but there's tons of curicullum to chose from as well. The lesson plans are written up for you to help, you just have to follow the system you like best and be able to carry it out. You can go as fast or as slow as you and your child want. I'm really not worried about that. High School is going to require a decision however.

 

I never took music or art -the side effects of my fourth rate public school education- I'm going to have to find somebody to teach that stuff to my kids. My wife can teach Chinese and Chinese history. Sports has my somach churning... the only organized sports league I can put them in is soccer or karate (if that's a sport). I'm not worried about social interaction stuff, I think that's overexagerated and I doubt you have any interactions with local Homeschool kids. There's also no bullies, speds, tards, drugs, or peer pressure in homeschool. They can get the social interaction they need from everyday real adults and from other kids in their extra-curricular activities.

 

 

Your child is likely to do well simply because (s)he has a parent that cares so much they are willing to discuss it on a fantasy football website. That alone speaks volumes. You are very on-point with all your comments- with the strong exception of the knocks on soccer and karate. From one Michigander to another, best of luck. It sounds like you are offering an incredibly oppurtunity to your child. I wish that all public educators had such a positive and powerful desire to drive their students towards success.

[pingpong 0]

I guess this is directed at me since I'm both the only one who's mentioned homeschooling and am also the only one that lives overseas.

 

No thanks. I don't know about your city, but my town, public school does not position your child for the best transition to higher education. I don't look forward to having my kids live with my mom and putting them in the same sh*tty school system I went through. Fortunalty, Michigan has charter schools and schools of choice now so maybe there's a chance I could send them someplace decent. But that's not my intent. I've already sold myself on homeschooling. Then there's no worry, I can make sure it's done right and done to my expectaions myself.

 

I've seen what professional teachers do and can do and I'm not impressed with the majority of them. It's far more gambling to put my kid in a school and hope for the best from a teacher that has 24 other little darlings to look after, doesn't particualy care for my kid, and generally teaches at a pace for the slowest ones. Or at lest that was my experience growing up. I see no reason why I can't teach the first 8 grades, at least, myself seeing as I know all that material already.

 

When you homeschool, not only is there about a dozen methods, but there's tons of curicullum to chose from as well. The lesson plans are written up for you to help, you just have to follow the system you like best and be able to carry it out. You can go as fast or as slow as you and your child want. I'm really not worried about that. High School is going to require a decision however.

 

I never took music or art -the side effects of my fourth rate public school education- I'm going to have to find somebody to teach that stuff to my kids. My wife can teach Chinese and Chinese history. Sports has my somach churning... the only organized sports league I can put them in is soccer or karate (if that's a sport). I'm not worried about social interaction stuff, I think that's overexagerated and I doubt you have any interactions with local Homeschool kids. There's also no bullies, speds, tards, drugs, or peer pressure in homeschool. They can get the social interaction they need from everyday real adults and from other kids in their extra-curricular activities.

I wasn't specifically trying to knock your decision. Based on your attention to education, it sounds like your child will be far more prepared academically than the public school counterparts.

 

My belief is that a child's education is more than just teaching academics. learning to lose, learning to say no to drugs, alcohol, smoking, etc, learning how to deal with bullies, learning the value of not cheating on tests when they can, etc, how to deal with diversity, is all valuable. I always thought home school parents tried their best to 'shield' their children from the 'real world' because they think it is best for them. Pesonally, I believe in the value of a skinned knee, so to say. Lessons that are part of education not taught by teachers and books.

[Voltaire 4,567]

I wasn't specifically trying to knock your decision. Based on your attention to education, it sounds like your child will be far more prepared academically than the public school counterparts.

 

My belief is that a child's education is more than just teaching academics. learning to lose, learning to say no to drugs, alcohol, smoking, etc, learning how to deal with bullies, learning the value of not cheating on tests when they can, etc, how to deal with diversity, is all valuable. I always thought home school parents tried their best to 'shield' their children from the 'real world' because they think it is best for them. Pesonally, I believe in the value of a skinned knee, so to say. Lessons that are part of education not taught by teachers and books.

 

The "plan" -if everything goes right- is to have a second baby very son after the first one is born, then adopt a third that's the same age, a birthdate between the first two. So we have three kids roughly the same age. Then... starting three years later (meaning altogether four years younger) have another set of three the same way. So six kids- two sets of three.

 

The teaching arraingement that I like best ties history, philosophy, and literature together in three four year intervals. Grades 1,5,9 Ancient history - 2,6,10 Mideval and Renessance- 3,7,11 Age of Discovery through Enlightenment and American/French Revolutions. 4/8/12 Napoleon through modern times. Also use the timeline to chart science and mathematical discoveries. Books read are in or about the timeframe studied. That's why I want the two sets of three four years apart, so the younger ones can largely overlap what I'm teaching the older ones in the system I use.

 

The New York Times has some great, great features for teachers to help kids learn current events. Current events was so extremly neglected in focking public schools, but it's something I obsess about. My kids have to know what major events are happening are developing in all corners of the world and understand the latest developments in modern science. Period. And I never had that. I know schools don't emphasis that. Most teachers, frankly, haven't a clue.

 

Some kids are visual, some physical, some readng learners. I can adapt the material to what I think is best for my kids. Just this week, the entire mathematics curriculum of the US is getting a major overhaul by the bigwig math experts. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/educatio...&ei=5087%0A Now I choose to teach Singapore math-it's the most rigorous and they get great reslut. If that doesn't work, well, I'll be disapointed but there's a whole other teaching style we've been using in the US. Granted it's being discredited now, but it may not be all bad, if the idea is fun and has some value to stimulate mathematical creativity, I could incorporate it in as a supplement. I engineer the material to suit my kids and if I see it's not working, I can change gears.

[pingpong 0]

The "plan" -if everything goes right- is to have a second baby very son after the first one is born, then adopt a third that's the same age, a birthdate between the first two. So we have three kids roughly the same age. Then... starting three years later (meaning altogether four years younger) have another set of three the same way. So six kids- two sets of three.

 

The teaching arraingement that I like best ties history, philosophy, and literature together in three four year intervals. Grades 1,5,9 Ancient history - 2,6,10 Mideval and Renessance- 3,7,11 Age of Discovery through Enlightenment and American/French Revolutions. 4/8/12 Napoleon through modern times. Also use the timeline to chart science and mathematical discoveries. Books read are in or about the timeframe studied. That's why I want the two sets of three four years apart, so the younger ones can largely overlap what I'm teaching the older ones in the system I use.

 

The New York Times has some great, great features for teachers to help kids learn current events. Current events was so extremly neglected in focking public schools, but it's something I obsess about. My kids have to know what major events are happening are developing in all corners of the world and understand the latest developments in modern science. Period. And I never had that. I know schools don't emphasis that. Most teachers, frankly, haven't a clue.

 

Some kids are visual, some physical, some readng learners. I can adapt the material to what I think is best for my kids. Just this week, the entire mathematics curriculum of the US is getting a major overhaul by the bigwig math experts. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/educatio...&ei=5087%0A Now I choose to teach Singapore math-it's the most rigorous and they get great reslut. If that doesn't work, well, I'll be disapointed but there's a whole other teaching style we've been using in the US. Granted it's being discredited now, but it may not be all bad, if the idea is fun and has some value to stimulate mathematical creativity, I could incorporate it in as a supplement. I engineer the material to suit my kids and if I see it's not working, I can change gears.

Minor technacality, but how will you be able to earn an income while teaching 6 of your own children in a foreign country?

[frank 2,152]

Some kids are visual, some physical, some readng learners.

 

This is a common, incorrect, outdated belief by many in the field of education.

[davebg 0]

This is a common, incorrect, outdated belief by many in the field of education.

What is? That some people learn better by seeing, some by doing and others by reading?

[itsbigmoni 1]

How can you knock soccer? I'm really suprised that you wouldnt consider soccer. Where i'm from every kid plays soccer from kindergarten to about 4th-5th grade then 80% move on to pop-warner. But if you are going to home-school i would highly recommend soccer. Not only will it give him good exercise, he'll get to have that inter-action. I'm fairly young, 21, so i'm saying this as a peer to homeschool kids, they don't come out normal. My two best friends were home schooled for about 4 years, but then they ended up going to public schools again and they turned out alright. But when i first met them they were on home school and i could tell you, they were a little off. They were even in a homeschool system where they had the oppurtunity to meet other homeschoolers twice a month. They didn't become completley "normal" until they started going to public school again. When i say normal, i mean more in the sense that they weren't socialy awkward. I met many homeschoolers and all of them just seem to be off. Not to stereotype (its funny when someone says that, not to be racist but.. or not to stereotype but..) but they are way more geekish, start wars, and Wow type of kids. I use to work for a company that use to set up tradeshows and things and a few times a year we would set up a trade show for homeschool parents in different cities and you could just tell which ones were homeschoolers. I was talking to this one girl and i thought her mom was at a booth selling stuff but then she told me she was homeschooled I was shocked, baffled, amazed, because she was pretty damn normal. Well, she did give me her number so she must've been off her rocker too.

 

I think its a balance though. Homeschool kids are probably "smarter" book wise, but how will they do in college? How are their social skills? Are they set-up to succeed in the future? Home schooled kids get labeled weird and it kind of excludes them. They may be more responsible in the sense they clean their room, do their chores on time, return blockbuster movies on time, but i'm not sure if they are as mature.

 

Best of luck though.