Confrederate Flags At Public High Schools

[RLLD 4,230]

Why don't we? Because it would make sense...and we all know common sense ain't that damn common anymore.

 

[SWC 0]

There are people out there that think the Confederate flag represents slavery?

 

This is a fine example of forgetting and revising history. The Civil War was fought over political and economic reasons. NOT slavery. Lincoln freed the slaves after the war, despite the popular North sentiment not to. Quite a daring political move. Lincoln was a good egg.

 

People are stupit.

 

I don't think the issue is soley "history-of-the-Civil-War based."

 

There is adequate reason to connect the confederate flag to race-hate.

 

See, for example: Link.

[Sho Nuff 720]

How about this?

 

Why don't we ALL be opposed to the Confederate Flag because - without equivocation or opinion - it was formed specifically to represent those that seperated from the United States of America. It is a banner marking the only time in history when America divided in armed conflict against itself. It represents a period of time in which more Americans died than in any other war and can quite arguably, be noted as America's Darkest Hour.

 

Should people have the right to display this flag? Yes.

 

Should anyone who knows anything about the horrors associated with this time in American history want to commerorate and/or celebrate that time? Absolutely not.

 

Right on...great post...

[GobbleDog 996]

Since we're all in the learnin mode:

 

Despite what's taught at the grade schools, Abe didn't sign the E.P. b/c he thought it was the right thing to do. Even at the time of signing it, he felt that 'negroes' should be resettled to Panama. No, the signing of the E.P. was strictly strategic; The Secy of State at the time - Cascius Clay (sound familiar?) had been overseas for quite a while. England & France had already banned slavery. England was suffering horribly b/c they couldn't get any cotton from the US for their massive textile production economy. Clay informed Abe that Europse was about to recognize the Confederacy unless one of two things happened:

 

1) The Union captures a major souther cotton port. (They didn't) or:

 

2) Barring that, the Union passes an Emancipation Proclamation. That way, the European powers - who had already decided to ban slavery - HAD to side with the "moral" cause.

 

Lincoln took his advice and issued the E.P. However - again unknown to most - It was largely (in fact, totally) worthless at the time; Abe didn't outlaw slavery entirely - just freed the slaves in the South. - He saw them (rightly) as an economic benefit and it was strategically intelligent to eliminate any economic benefit of the south. He DIDN'T do so for the Northern slaves. Well, seeing as how the Conferacy didn't recognize Lincoln's authority, it had all the affect at the time of GWB outlawing miniskirts in Paris.

 

 

I didn't know all that. But it supports what a lot of Southerns already knew - that the Civil War was not fought in the name of slavery. It was about State authority vs Federal authority.

 

Sadly, the Confederate flag has become a symbol of racism. I believe whites and blacks are both to blame for that. Klan members and racist rednecks that wave the flag give blacks good reason to say the flag offends them (even though history wise, it probably shouldn't).

 

 

Should anyone who knows anything about the horrors associated with this time in American history want to commerorate and/or celebrate that time? Absolutely not.

 

Some of us still believe the South had every right to succeed from the Union.

[kpbuckeye 3]

How about this?

 

Why don't we ALL be opposed to the Confederate Flag because - without equivocation or opinion - it was formed specifically to represent those that seperated from the United States of America. It is a banner marking the only time in history when America divided in armed conflict against itself. It represents a period of time in which more Americans died than in any other war and can quite arguably, be noted as America's Darkest Hour.

 

Should people have the right to display this flag? Yes.

 

Should anyone who knows anything about the horrors associated with this time in American history want to commerorate and/or celebrate that time? Absolutely not.

 

 

How about not, shitstain. Some of us look at it and feel it represents states rights and the importance of those rights. You are free to associate it with death, misery etc. I could give a fock.

Feel free to step down off your pedestal though

[RLLD 4,230]

Some of us still believe the South had every right to succeed from the Union.

 

[itsbigmoni 1]

It was a regional flag. If anything, everyone should be happy that the 18 yer old cheerleader didn't think anything racial about it! That is very promising. If you take the homer glasses off, you'll notice that it is black people raising the racial cards about everything! It isn't the 18 year old jock saying "we need to keep the flag cause black people are inferior", no, it's the black person who is watching stephen a. smith, and michael irvin et.all.. and listening to other black people not let the past die that will complain that it's racist, all the while the white people are all "it's not racist, it's just a flag, lighten up".....

The majority of white people have let the past die...

The majority of black people have not...

thats why sh!t like this makes the news, and that's why racism will never die, cause black people will not let it die!

yeah, I know there are still southern redneck KKK focktards, but they eventually will die out from all the inbreeding

 

 

Exactly! but as long as there are Stephen A. Smiths and Michael Irvins in this world, racism will never die... I'm not trying to sound ignorant or anything, but seriously, blacks are the ones not letting racism die.

 

This is a whole different subject, but please shut the fock up if you think racism is only alive because of black people. Claiming that no white person is racist is dumb. I hate to make personal attacks because its really lame, but yea, you're an idiot. Without Stephen A. and Michael Irvin, two black sports commentators, racism would die? How many people listen to tthose two guys. 10 20, at most 30%? I've never heard such a stupid argument. If black people stopped claiming racism, white peopl would not be racist? By claiming to the victim of racism you are empowering it? Racism doesn't have to be, you're a different color than me, so you're not as good as me.

 

White people have let the "past" die, because its a black-mark in history. Yes, i agree, white people aren't running around wanting slaves. But racism hasn't died. Wait, am i empowering racism by saying it exists?

[wiffleball 4,790]

I knew this from an intense 400-level history course I took for my undergrad, I am guessing you got it from the same place

 

 

I forgot everything I ever learned in my undergrad years -other than how to make a bad-axx beer bong.

 

I read a great book - ironically called - "Lincoln". It's pretty interesting; Cascious Clay was described (back then) as "a great big barrell chested heavyweight of a man". I wonder if Mrs. Clay knew that -or the importance of this one relatively unknown man on African American history - when she chose her son's name over 150 years later.

 

Also: Abe Lincoln was the guy who coined the term "Hair of the dog that bit ya".

(and he wasn't even talking about booze!)

[itsbigmoni 1]

It was a regional flag. If anything, everyone should be happy that the 18 yer old cheerleader didn't think anything racial about it! That is very promising. If you take the homer glasses off, you'll notice that it is black people raising the racial cards about everything! It isn't the 18 year old jock saying "we need to keep the flag cause black people are inferior", no, it's the black person who is watching stephen a. smith, and michael irvin et.all.. and listening to other black people not let the past die that will complain that it's racist, all the while the white people are all "it's not racist, it's just a flag, lighten up".....

The majority of white people have let the past die...

The majority of black people have not...

thats why sh!t like this makes the news, and that's why racism will never die, cause black people will not let it die!

yeah, I know there are still southern redneck KKK focktards, but they eventually will die out from all the inbreeding

 

 

Exactly! but as long as there are Stephen A. Smiths and Michael Irvins in this world, racism will never die... I'm not trying to sound ignorant or anything, but seriously, blacks are the ones not letting racism die.

 

This is a whole different subject, but please shut the fock up if you think racism is only alive because of black people. Claiming that no white person is racist is dumb. I hate to make personal attacks because its really lame, but yea, you're an idiot. Without Stephen A. and Michael Irvin, two black sports commentators, racism would die? How many people listen to tthose two guys. 10 20, at most 30%? I've never heard such a stupid argument. If black people stopped claiming racism, white peopl would not be racist? By claiming to the victim of racism you are empowering it? Racism doesn't have to be, you're a different color than me, so you're not as good as me.

 

White people have let the "past" die, because its a black-mark in history. Yes, i agree, white people aren't running around wanting slaves. But racism hasn't died. Wait, am i empowering racism by saying it exists?

[Big_Pete 0]

Some of us still believe the South had every right to succeed from the Union.

well, gather up all your KKK members, malitia members and take on America!

Guess we wont have to worry about N.O. being a "chocolate city" cause there wont be any city after the military destroys the south and all the racist focktards down there!

would be about a 1 day war. Just bring in air support and level everything from D.C. to the mississippi and then work your way down. Fock it, throw in Texor for good measure (cool geeks get plenty of warning to leave)

maybe that's what it'll take to end racism once and for all

 

This is a whole different subject, but please shut the fock up if you think racism is only alive because of black people. Claiming that no white person is racist is dumb. I hate to make personal attacks because its really lame, but yea, you're an idiot. Without Stephen A. and Michael Irvin, two black sports commentators, racism would die? How many people listen to tthose two guys. 10 20, at most 30%? I've never heard such a stupid argument. If black people stopped claiming racism, white peopl would not be racist? By claiming to the victim of racism you are empowering it? Racism doesn't have to be, you're a different color than me, so you're not as good as me.

 

White people have let the "past" die, because its a black-mark in history. Yes, i agree, white people aren't running around wanting slaves. But racism hasn't died. Wait, am i empowering racism by saying it exists?

I'm sorry, I didn't say that and I'll quote myself here

"yeah, I know there are still southern redneck KKK focktards, but they eventually will die out from all the inbreeding"

how exactly is that me saying there are no white racist?

And i said the likes of SAS and MI... there are more than just those 2 on the tube

but seriously, you show me 1 white person who thinks slavery should still be here and I'll literally show you 10's of thousands of blacks who are still pissed about the past and not letting it die!

[D_House 0]

I forgot everything I ever learned in my undergrad years -other than how to make a bad-axx beer bong.

 

I read a great book - ironically called - "Lincoln". It's pretty interesting; Cascious Clay was described (back then) as "a great big barrell chested heavyweight of a man". I wonder if Mrs. Clay knew that -or the importance of this one relatively unknown man on African American history - when she chose her son's name over 150 years later.

Ali (his full birth name was Cassius Marcellus Clay, Jr.) was named after his father, who was named after the 19th century Cassius Clay.

[wiffleball 4,790]

Some of us still believe the South had every right to succeed from the Union.

 

 

I'm not so sure that's in contention. However, there's no mistaking that the subsequent secession resulted in more American deaths than in any other war - and many combined. To put it into perspective, 9 Million Americans would have to die today to equal the percentage of Americans who died either at the hand of their fellow countryman or due to the resulting disease and starvation.

 

- No matter what your beliefs, it was a tragic, horrible time in American history.

[Bert 1,128]

This is a whole different subject, but please shut the fock up if you think racism is only alive because of black people. Claiming that no white person is racist is dumb. I hate to make personal attacks because its really lame, but yea, you're an idiot. Without Stephen A. and Michael Irvin, two black sports commentators, racism would die? How many people listen to tthose two guys. 10 20, at most 30%? I've never heard such a stupid argument. If black people stopped claiming racism, white peopl would not be racist? By claiming to the victim of racism you are empowering it? Racism doesn't have to be, you're a different color than me, so you're not as good as me.

 

White people have let the "past" die, because its a black-mark in history. Yes, i agree, white people aren't running around wanting slaves. But racism hasn't died. Wait, am i empowering racism by saying it exists?

 

You do realize racism is a world wide issue?

[GobbleDog 996]

I read a great book - ironically called - "Lincoln". It's pretty interesting; Cascious Clay was described (back then) as "a great big barrell chested heavyweight of a man". I wonder if Mrs. Clay knew that -or the importance of this one relatively unknown man on African American history - when she chose her son's name over 150 years later.

 

Also: Abe Lincoln was the guy who coined the term "Hair of the dog that bit ya".

(and he wasn't even talking about booze!)

 

I understand Lincoln was responsible for a lot of atrocities commited against civilian Southerners during the war. To be fair the South was probably guilty of a few atrocities as well, but history-wise Lincoln walked away smelling like rose.

[phillybear 366]

Cartman almost freed the South, but he ran out of S'mores flavored Schnapps.

[Big_Pete 0]

If black people stopped claiming racism, white peopl would not be racist? By claiming to the victim of racism you are empowering it? Racism doesn't have to be, you're a different color than me, so you're not as good as me.

 

White people have let the "past" die, because its a black-mark in history. Yes, i agree, white people aren't running around wanting slaves. But racism hasn't died. Wait, am i empowering racism by saying it exists?

when have I ever said any of these things?

HINT:... NEVER... you are putting words in my mouth to give yourself some kind of bullsh1t excuse to biotch and put yourself on a high horse

And racism isn't about color? wow, this is news to me...

Racism=color based

Sexism=gender based

Ethnicity discrimination=religious/regional....

 

Hmm... maybe by saying I'm a idiot you are being "racist" towards me, seeing it being a color issue is not longer a boundary for it.

 

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J

[itsbigmoni 1]

well, gather up all your KKK members, malitia members and take on America!

Guess we wont have to worry about N.O. being a "chocolate city" cause there wont be any city after the military destroys the south and all the racist focktards down there!

would be about a 1 day war. Just bring in air support and level everything from D.C. to the mississippi and then work your way down. Fock it, throw in Texor for good measure (cool geeks get plenty of warning to leave)

maybe that's what it'll take to end racism once and for all

I'm sorry, I didn't say that and I'll quote myself here

how exactly is that me saying there are no white racist?

And i said the likes of SAS and MI... there are more than just those 2 on the tube

but seriously, you show me 1 white person who thinks slavery should still be here and I'll literally show you 10's of thousands of blacks who are still pissed about the past and not letting it die!

 

Kinda ironic. If i quote myself i said that there aren't white people running around wantng slavery.

 

You do realize racism is a world wide issue?

 

Obviously.

[wiffleball 4,790]

How about not, shitstain. Some of us look at it and feel it represents states rights and the importance of those rights. You are free to associate it with death, misery etc. I could give a fock.

Feel free to step down off your pedestal though

 

 

Anybody else see the deeply comical irony in the same guy who wets hisself & starts name calling everytime someone disagrees with the massive fock-up we know as the Iraq Invasion being the same guy who openly approves of committing treason and killing other Americans if they disagree with outlawing slavery??

 

Man, you just keep coming down on the wrong side of history.

[Big_Pete 0]

Wasn't this a topic about the flag anyways?

anyways, itsbigmoni, you are cool in my book, hell, if we hung out, we'd probably be good friends.

Whites were originally the reason for racism. Without whites doing what they did and looking down on blacks, there would have been no racism.

But I personally think that the reason it's still going is because there are too many sensative blacks to just let things die. It was 150+ years ago when slavery was alive and kicking, times have changed, people have changed, just let the past die! And everytime something like this pops up in the news, people start getting all bent out of shape about things and dig up the past. And then it sparks discussions like this, which is dumb. But again, my point is that it's some over sensative black dude digging this sh!t up and picking fights. Just ignore the stuff, cause it isn't being used racially anymore, so dont treat it as such! And when that happens, racism will die, cause all the southern focks who are still racist will eventually die off! And if they dont, they should be euthanised!

And seeing it's all just typed out on this board, it's hard to judge tone/meaning/sarcasm to some stuff.

But you're cool in my book.

[kpbuckeye 3]

Anybody else see the deeply comical irony in the same guy who wets hisself & starts name calling everytime someone questions the massive fock-up we know as the Iraq Invasion being the same guy who openly approves of committing treason and killing other Americans who wanted to outlaw slavery??

 

Man, you just keep coming down on the wrong side of history.

 

 

you are focking retarded aren't you?

 

In case you missed it, the civil war was not all about slavery.

 

It would be much better if I came on here everyday and cried about bush and iraq like you do?

 

seems you need to worry more about getting a reach-around from your boyfriend and less about me. I'll be glad to link up your 'name calling' if you want, I suggest you STFU before I make you look like a dumbshiot yet again.

 

:thebird:

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I still say they should fly the flag and when a former slave shows up to a game they can take it down. What's the big deal?

[RLLD 4,230]

I still say they should fly the flag and when a former slave shows up to a game they can take it down. What's the big deal?

 

it a bigger deal to some than others, but when you are grasping for something to feed your pathetic agenda, this kind of thing will do the trick.

[Montezuma 0]

I still say they should fly the flag and when a former slave shows up to a game they can take it down. What's the big deal?

 

Good idea, and in 50 years we can start hanging swastikas too and just take them down when holocaust survivors show up. Whats the big deal?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

it a bigger deal to some than others, but when you are grasping for something to feed your pathetic agenda, this kind of thing will do the trick.

 

What would my "agenda" be?

[wiffleball 4,790]

you are focking retarded aren't you?

 

In case you missed it, the civil war was not all about slavery.

 

It would be much better if I came on here everyday and cried about bush and iraq like you do?

 

seems you need to worry more about getting a reach-around from your boyfriend and less about me. I'll be glad to link up your 'name calling' if you want, I suggest you STFU before I make you look like a dumbshiot yet again.

 

:thebird:

 

 

typical - are you like 14 years old or something?

 

So, you ARE for allowing people who disagree with the government to committ treason & kill any Americans whom they disagree with. But you're NOT for people who question a failed policy?? Let me get this right - "questioning bad, treason good." Man, you add new dimension to the term "love it or leave it".

 

Funny thing is - you DON'T get the deeply comical irony in that. You are part of a handful of alia on this bored who add no value whatsoever. You have neither the wit, maturity nor intellectual wherewithal to contribute anything of any value, but like some virtual pathetic little brother, will shout, spit, curse -whatever - just so someone will give you some attention.

[itsbigmoni 1]

Wasn't this a topic about the flag anyways?

anyways, itsbigmoni, you are cool in my book, hell, if we hung out, we'd probably be good friends.

Whites were originally the reason for racism. Without whites doing what they did and looking down on blacks, there would have been no racism.

But I personally think that the reason it's still going is because there are too many sensative blacks to just let things die. It was 150+ years ago when slavery was alive and kicking, times have changed, people have changed, just let the past die! And everytime something like this pops up in the news, people start getting all bent out of shape about things and dig up the past. And then it sparks discussions like this, which is dumb. But again, my point is that it's some over sensative black dude digging this sh!t up and picking fights. Just ignore the stuff, cause it isn't being used racially anymore, so dont treat it as such! And when that happens, racism will die, cause all the southern focks who are still racist will eventually die off! And if they dont, they should be euthanised!

And seeing it's all just typed out on this board, it's hard to judge tone/meaning/sarcasm to some stuff.

But you're cool in my book.

 

This is another thing people fail to grasp, it hasn't been 150 years. The civil rights movement only happened 50 years ago. I agree with the slavery part. Fock repriratoins and all that. But yea, there are still thousands(millions?) of black people alive today who felt direct racism by being turned down from rstraunts, jobs, drinking fountains, schools, bus seats, because of racism. So to say, all that happened 150 years ago isn't entirely true. Even up until the 80's, blacks were being paid less than whites for the same jobs.

 

The problem with the flag i have, at a public institution, is it brings back memories of racism. Sure it was a rebillious flag, and rebillion is part of our culture. But too many people hijacked the flag. Too many racist organizations use it as their flag. I'm not saying anyone who takes pride in the flag is racist, but not many peace loving non racist organizations use the flag. Plus, its at a public high school. What you hang in front of your own house is your choice, whether its a nazi flag, american flag, or confederate flag. But this flag is obviously a very sensitive subject with serious history behind it. When public schools use it, it promotes the flag for further use. Yes, there are differences between a nazi swashtika and a confederate flag, but not in a million years would a public institution use a swashtika. The swastika and confederate flag brings up similar memories for whatever group was opressed by taht symbol. To use this at a public school isn't right.

[Franknbeans 46]

Wasn't this a topic about the flag anyways?

anyways, itsbigmoni, you are cool in my book, hell, if we hung out, we'd probably be good friends.

Whites were originally the reason for racism. Without whites doing what they did and looking down on blacks, there would have been no racism.

But I personally think that the reason it's still going is because there are too many sensative blacks to just let things die. It was 150+ years ago when slavery was alive and kicking, times have changed, people have changed, just let the past die! And everytime something like this pops up in the news, people start getting all bent out of shape about things and dig up the past. And then it sparks discussions like this, which is dumb. But again, my point is that it's some over sensative black dude digging this sh!t up and picking fights. Just ignore the stuff, cause it isn't being used racially anymore, so dont treat it as such! And when that happens, racism will die, cause all the southern focks who are still racist will eventually die off! And if they dont, they should be euthanised!

And seeing it's all just typed out on this board, it's hard to judge tone/meaning/sarcasm to some stuff.

But you're cool in my book.

 

You don't get it. There are still racists everywhere. The fact that whites perpetrated slavery on blacks means that the white man doesn't get to say when to drop it. African-Americans get to make that call. They earned it.

[kpbuckeye 3]

typical - are you like 14 years old or something?

 

So, you ARE for allowing people who disagree with the government to committ treason & kill any Americans whom they disagree with. But you're NOT for people who question a failed policy?? Let me get this right - "questioning bad, treason good." Man, you add new dimension to the term "love it or leave it".

 

 

here is a surprise, you are still focking retarded.

[GobbleDog 996]

What you hang in front of your own house is your choice, whether its a nazi flag, american flag, or confederate flag. .............To use this at a public school isn't right.

 

I like to hang Muslims in front of my house. j/k.... But I agree with you that public schools should avoid this type of controversy.

[torridjoe 48]

I didn't know all that. But it supports what a lot of Southerns already knew - that the Civil War was not fought in the name of slavery. It was about State authority vs Federal authority.

 

Sadly, the Confederate flag has become a symbol of racism. I believe whites and blacks are both to blame for that. Klan members and racist rednecks that wave the flag give blacks good reason to say the flag offends them (even though history wise, it probably shouldn't).

Some of us still believe the South had every right to succeed from the Union.

 

If the Civil War was not fought in the name of slavery, they shouldn't have suggested their undying devotion to slavery in the focking articles of secession. I count 18 references to the word slave or slavery or slave-holding, in SC's declaration. I think I found 35 in Georgia's. Seven in Mississippi's (and theirs is fairly short). Texas' had 23 references to "slave."

 

Yeah, they weren't really focused on slavery when deciding to secede from the Union or anything...

[kpbuckeye 3]

If the Civil War was not fought in the name of slavery, they shouldn't have suggested their undying devotion to slavery in the focking articles of secession. I count 18 references to the word slave or slavery or slave-holding, in SC's declaration. I think I found 35 in Georgia's. Seven in Mississippi's (and theirs is fairly short). Texas' had 23 references to "slave."

 

Yeah, they weren't really focused on slavery when deciding to secede from the Union or anything...

 

 

you are aware WWII was not fought only for the jews aren't you?

just as the civil war was not fought only for slavery.

 

this is prob a bad analogy since you hate jews huh?

[GobbleDog 996]

If the Civil War was not fought in the name of slavery, they shouldn't have suggested their undying devotion to slavery in the focking articles of secession. I count 18 references to the word slave or slavery or slave-holding, in SC's declaration. I think I found 35 in Georgia's. Seven in Mississippi's (and theirs is fairly short). Texas' had 23 references to "slave."

 

Yeah, they weren't really focused on slavery when deciding to secede from the Union or anything...

 

That's your proof that the Civil War was fought over slavery? I haven't read those articles, but I'd guess there's a bunch of stuff in there that had little to do with the war.

 

Try again.

[RLLD 4,230]

If the Civil War was not fought in the name of slavery, they shouldn't have suggested their undying devotion to slavery in the focking articles of secession. I count 18 references to the word slave or slavery or slave-holding, in SC's declaration. I think I found 35 in Georgia's. Seven in Mississippi's (and theirs is fairly short). Texas' had 23 references to "slave."

 

Yeah, they weren't really focused on slavery when deciding to secede from the Union or anything...

 

So without slavery it is not possible to have a civil war?

 

To minimize the issue to that of slavery overlooks the deeper issues involved, and subsequently enables such a war to happen once more. Look beyond the obvious and understand the situation as a whole. Slavery was the vehicle, not the true reason.

[wiffleball 4,790]

So without slavery it is not possible to have a civil war?

 

To minimize the issue to that of slavery overlooks the deeper issues involved, and subsequently enables such a war to happen once more. Look beyond the obvious and understand the situation as a whole. Slavery was the vehicle, not the true reason.

 

 

Frankly, I think you guys are headed down a rabbit trail that isn't going to go anywhere. Why is any war fought? We could do 9 pages on why vietnam was fought. The same with something as "relatively clear" as WW2. War rarely occurs because of a single act, nor are they fought with a single purpose in mind.

 

...just my humble opinion. Carry on...

[Bert 1,128]

Why is any war fought?

 

That's easy.....money.....its always about the money.

[torridjoe 48]

That's your proof that the Civil War was fought over slavery? I haven't read those articles, but I'd guess there's a bunch of stuff in there that had little to do with the war.

 

Try again.

 

The war hadn't happened yet...so none of it had to do with the war.

 

What kind of proof were you looking for exactly, beyond the people who seceded writing out exactly WHY they were seceeding, and coming back again and again to the practice of slavery?

 

OF COURSE it was about state's rights--in this case, the right for states to have slaves.

 

Frankly, I think you guys are headed down a rabbit trail that isn't going to go anywhere. Why is any war fought? We could do 9 pages on why vietnam was fought. The same with something as "relatively clear" as WW2. War rarely occurs because of a single act, nor are they fought with a single purpose in mind.

 

...just my humble opinion. Carry on...

 

well, we know why the Revolutionary War and Civil War were fought, because there are documents that lay out exactly why they were defying the respective authority (England and the Union). Vietnam and WWII did not have similar "here's why we're prepared to go to war with you" prior statements...

 

So without slavery it is not possible to have a civil war?

 

To minimize the issue to that of slavery overlooks the deeper issues involved, and subsequently enables such a war to happen once more. Look beyond the obvious and understand the situation as a whole. Slavery was the vehicle, not the true reason.

 

I didn't say it wasn't possible without slavery. What I said was that those who seceded were very clear as to why they were seceding--the Union was infringing on their right to hold slaves. They took the time to write it down and say so.

[wiffleball 4,790]

The war hadn't happened yet...so none of it had to do with the war.

 

What kind of proof were you looking for exactly, beyond the people who seceded writing out exactly WHY they were seceeding, and coming back again and again to the practice of slavery?

 

OF COURSE it was about state's rights--in this case, the right for states to have slaves.

well, we know why the Revolutionary War and Civil War were fought, because there are documents that lay out exactly why they were defying the respective authority (England and the Union). Vietnam and WWII did not have similar "here's why we're prepared to go to war with you" prior statements...

 

 

You're smart enough to know that even the root causes for the rev and civil wars can - and have been -debated for ages. Even those wars that have overt mission statements generally have less than overt sub-texts as well. Those that say we fought the British over religious oppression ignore the fact that we also fought over taxation and representation as well. There are those that said that we went into WW2 b/c of pearl harbor. They wouldn't be wrong and wouldn't be completely right either.

 

- again, seems like you're headed down one of your pattened rabbit trails. Enjoy the journey!

[torridjoe 48]

You're smart enough to know that even the root causes for the rev and civil wars can - and have been -debated for ages. Even those wars that have overt mission statements generally have less than overt sub-texts as well. Those that say we fought the British over religious oppression ignore the fact that we also fought over taxation and representation as well. There are those that said that we went into WW2 b/c of pearl harbor. They wouldn't be wrong and wouldn't be completely right either.

 

- again, seems like you're headed down one of your pattened rabbit trails. Enjoy the journey!

 

while "those" may ignore taxation and representation, the founders did not. Which was exactly my point--in that war there was a full declaration of the reasons and causes for separation. So too is that true for the Civil War--those that separated, spelled out exactly why they were doing so. If you find a theme that dominates the Declaration of Independence as much as the word "slave" dominates the individual secession declarations, I'd be pretty likely to agree with you that it was the primary rationale for that war.

[Fervid Ro 0]

"slave" dominates the individual

 

reow!

[Recliner Pilot 61]

reow!

 

Wow.

 

Taking words totally out of context and twisting them to fit your own agenda runs in the family.