Post game show - how much credit can we give to God?

[adam smitty 0]

Praise God and give him the glory for without his help in life we would have nothing.

[Sho Nuff 720]

I

As would "believers" tire quite quickly if atheists went around professing that there is no God everytime they had a captive audience.

 

Ever read the stuff on this board...it happens all the time with people saying there is no God.

[Parja 0]

Can't we all just get along? Can't we all just acknowledge that Christians are batsh*t crazy and go about our day?

[The Next Generation 11]

Ever read the stuff on this board...it happens all the time with people saying there is no God.

 

Yeah, when we're discussing the issue and that edge cuts both ways. When have you EVER heard a public statement at a function that wasn't specifically for that purpose about being an atheist and that there is no God? Please...

[parrot 789]

Funny thing about non-believers...they simply cannot stand hearing a Christian profess his faith.

Nice broadbrush there.

[football_scooter 0]

You don't sound all that smart yourself right now.

I'll give you credit, you're doing all you can to keep this argument going even though it doesn't have legs anymore.

 

then you've clearly missed the point.

 

Funny thing about non-believers...they simply cannot stand hearing a Christian profess his faith.

 

Funny thing about Christains - they cannot conceive that what to them is "spreading the gospel" can be totally exclusionary to others.

 

Freedom of speech and religion is a two-way street. I should be as free from your beliefs as you are free to have them.

 

Period.

 

If a simple comment by an individual about his/her personal beleifs led another person to blow up a school bus, I kind of think the individual who blew up the school bus has a lot of "issues". Not sure his/her faith being different then another person's individual faith is the main issue.

 

so you completely ignore the point that Dungy's comment about Chrisianity was optional and potentially inappropriate & inflamatory because if someone hearing it doesn't like it, well that's pretty much their problem.

 

Whoosh! right over your head.

 

Tollerance is something Christains demand a lot, and practice rarely.

[Jeremy 0]

I think he does believe being a Christian helped him get to that point and gave him his talents to coach that game and win. Not that it had a thing to do with the outcome of the game beyond that...and he said as much.

 

 

 

Furthermore, Dungy is not saying my religion is right and yours is wrong. The media and others have made a big deal of his achievement being the first black coach to win the superbowl. He's saying he and Lovie define themselves first and foremost as Christian men.

 

Deeply Christian individuals like to profess their faith. I think that's something non-religious folks have a hard time understanding. Until you experience it, it's probably difficult to understand.

[Fumbleweed 555]

Yeah, when we're discussing the issue and that edge cuts both ways. When have you EVER heard a public statement at a function that wasn't specifically for that purpose about being an atheist and that there is no God? Please...

 

In fairness, he acknowledged something- in this case, God. Atheism is a belief in nothing supernatural, so why would you acknowledge your belief in nothing.

[FBIGUY 0]

Praise God and give him the glory for without his help in life we would have nothing.

 

 

 

Yup what he said!

[Fumbleweed 555]

Tony Dungy is a Christian man. It is deeply interwoven into who he is. When he remains calm and clear-headed in the midst of stress or crisis, he attributes that to the God that he believes in.

 

Acknowledgement is something people do when they've won an award. Oscar winners do it...all award winners do it. He just acknowledged that he was proud to be a Christian coach because he believes it's made such a difference in his life and in his coaching. That's cool.

 

Scoot....I could be wrong, but I infer that you're saying Freedom of Speech means that someone/you should be free of having to hear certain kinds of speech from others? I don't follow you there......

 

 

 

Freedom of speech and religion is a two-way street. I should be as free from your beliefs as you are free to have them.

 

 

 

Here's your quote. You lost me here. How do you have the right to be "free from my beliefs". Where does that come from? You are free to reject my beliefs. You are not free from having to hear about them if you are watching me on t.v. and I am talking. You're just not making any sense here......

[Grind 0]

then you've clearly missed the point.

Funny thing about Christains - they cannot conceive that what to them is "spreading the gospel" can be totally exclusionary to others.

 

Freedom of speech and religion is a two-way street. I should be as free from your beliefs as you are free to have them.

 

Period.

so you completely ignore the point that Dungy's comment about Chrisianity was optional and potentially inappropriate & inflamatory because if someone hearing it doesn't like it, well that's pretty much their problem.

 

Whoosh! right over your head.

 

Tollerance is something Christains demand a lot, and practice rarely.

 

I guess it is over my head. So is it better that a head coach state that winning the Super Bowl was strictly a result of hard work? What if I am an individual who doesn't beleive in work, but rather believes it is the governments responsibility to provide as necessary? I'm sure such people would take offense to such a statement. Some may even blow up a bus of school children. Bottom line is that most every individual has beliefs. I don't think a head coach could talk without making some statement of belief. In my example, the coach beleives that hard work led to a Super Bowl victory. Is such a statement wrong considering that there are individuals in this country who don't believe in hard work and any direct results of hard work?

[FBIGUY 0]

Who says you can't say Merry Christmas? I make it a point to say it rather than Happy Holidays. Never deny who you are or your beliefs!!!

 

 

That is true...and if your company tries to fire you for saying merry christmas...just tell them that you are not going to say anything at all.

 

They can stop you from saying anything, but they can't force you to say something that goes against your faith. Just tell them that by saying something other than Merry Christmas...it is like speaking against Christ and you are not willing to do that.

 

Trust me they will let you say what you want...or will tell you not to greet the customer at all.

 

It is a very sad world we live in today..when we can't say Merry Christmas or anything related to CHRIST.

 

I SAY TODAY FOR ALL

 

I LOVE GOD AND HE LOVES ME..and I don't care what anyone thinks or says about it, i will tell anyone who will listen about GOD...but I would never force you to listen to me.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

then you've clearly missed the point.

 

Funny thing about Christains - they cannot conceive that what to them is "spreading the gospel" can be totally exclusionary to others.

 

Freedom of speech and religion is a two-way street. I should be as free from your beliefs as you are free to have them.

 

Period.

so you completely ignore the point that Dungy's comment about Chrisianity was optional and potentially inappropriate & inflamatory because if someone hearing it doesn't like it, well that's pretty much their problem.

 

Whoosh! right over your head.

 

Tollerance is something Christains demand a lot, and practice rarely.

 

I haven't missed your point but it doesn't seem like a worthwhile discussion to me. Maybe I'm wrong. People in sports, music, movies, politics, etc. use their fame to try to force what they believe everyday. It rarely bothers me.

 

Someone stated you're painting with a broadbrush and I agree. You are making assumptions about "christians". Generalize much?

 

And when did you suddenly get so sensitive?

[jocstrap 8]

Getting them all reved up Scooter. Here's my thought on the matter. Say your one line thank you to the almighty then move on. The crowd was pumped, the tv audience was pumped, and the players were pumped. Put that trophy in the air, give me a woot woot, shake that thing, and go crazy! Give me some freakin' excitement. To me it did seem like these guys were too long on the subject almost like we were hearing a church sermon taking the buzz out of the air. I was hammer time by the end of the game, God probably wasn't approving my state of feeling at that particular moment. &

[The Next Generation 11]

...so why would you acknowledge your belief in nothing.

 

Yeah, OK...belief in nothing...

 

Athiests believe in plenty of things, most importantly that they don't need to have "faith" in some mythical super being to get through their lives.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Nice broadbrush there.

 

As if what I was responding too was not the broadbrush painted BS as well.

[Fumbleweed 555]

Yeah, OK...belief in nothing...

 

Athiests believe in plenty of things, most importantly that they don't need to have "faith" in some mythical super being to get through their lives.

 

I didn't mean it disrespectfully at all.....you're being a little too sensitive here. I'm saying that you would acknowledge hard work, courage, teamwork or something like that, but not an actual person or being because you don't worship one. You wouldn't say "It's because of atheism that I am where I am today" whereas Christians would actually acknowledge that a belief has assisted them.

 

Again, this sensitivity is baffling. Some of you guys are making wild, defensive assumptions and statements. Settle down and we can have a good discussion on this topic if you wish.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Yeah, OK...belief in nothing...

 

Athiests believe in plenty of things, most importantly that they don't need to have "faith" in some mythical super being to get through their lives.

 

Atheism's boring. It's too safe for me. I like to live crazy and have faith in something/someone who I can't see or hear.

[Sho Nuff 720]

 

Funny thing about Christains - they cannot conceive that what to them is "spreading the gospel" can be totally exclusionary to others.

 

Freedom of speech and religion is a two-way street. I should be as free from your beliefs as you are free to have them.

 

Period.

s

 

You are free from his beliefs because you have the choice not to hear the man speak.

[Cdub100 3,995]

I like to picture Jesus in a tuxedo T-Shirt because it says I want to be formal, but I'm here to party. Cause I like to party, so I want my Jesus to party

[Spinner 0]

It appears then that God was in all the meetings leading up to the game and allowed the Colts to use only the plays that would work against the Bears...and denied the Bears the use of plays that would work against the Colts.

 

My guess is, though, God has much bigger things to which to direct his miracles.

[MahSoonerz 0]

Freedom of speech and religion is a two-way street. I should be as free from your beliefs as you are free to have them.

 

No, freedom to and freedom from are two entirely separate, and somewhat opposed, concepts. That San Francisco living is starting to turn your brain to mush, my friend. The very beginning of freedom from is force against others - in this case, forcing other people to STFU because you are too insecure in your own beliefs to handle hearing someone else's. Besides, I doubt you would agree to any new rules or laws that limit your own self expression, so please can the "freedom for me but not for thee" junk. If you want to get all philosophical, I could probably prove to everyone's satisfaction save your own that "freedom from" is a null concept.

 

You are perfectly free to say whatever you believe. I will do the same. I for one am secure enough in my faith that I can handle it when others have different ideas on the topic.

 

If you would like some consideration from others to protect your sensitivity, you could encourage this if you started showing it to others.

 

And now is as good a time as any to declare:

 

IBTL

[football_scooter 0]

Scoot....I could be wrong, but I infer that you're saying Freedom of Speech means that someone/you should be free of having to hear certain kinds of speech from others? I don't follow you there......

Here's your quote. You lost me here. How do you have the right to be "free from my beliefs". Where does that come from? You are free to reject my beliefs. You are not free from having to hear about them if you are watching me on t.v. and I am talking. You're just not making any sense here......

 

Funny how the only one's saying I'm not making sense are the obvious Christains, while several here have been in agreement and paraphrased or made supporting comments which would indicate that I'm making perfect sense.

 

Look - I'm not anti-christain, nor am I anti-religion. Far from it. But the point is that no one's free to abuse a public forum for their own agenda, and both Dungy & the owner of the Colts are guilty of that.

 

Let me ask you something, Fumbles....Are you free to yell "Fire!" in a crowded movie-house? No, you aren't. Why? Because it could cause harm to others.

 

Are you free to say offensive things to your co-workers? of course not.

 

Are you free to preach your religious beliefs at work and in a public forum? Nope - not even close. Because our society is a melting pot and you cannot infringe on the beliefs of others or make statements in support of your faith because it would be potentially hurtful to someone not of your faith through exclusion.

 

Yet here's Dungy, at work, in front of a national audience making comments not just about having faith, which would have been fine...not just about God, which would have also been fine...but he made it about one specific faith: Christianity.

 

I know when I heard it, I personally felt excluded. Are you going to tell me I was "wrong" to feel this way? That I felt marginalized should be all the evidence you all need to know that it was inappropriate. I wasn't offended, but I definately felt excluded.

 

So indeed - your freedom TO religion does not superceed my freedom FROM your religion. Never forget that rights work both ways - the "double edged sword" as someone else mentioned. This is the point that the vast majority if Christains have trouble understanding - likely because one of the basic principals of Christianity is to proliferate.

[Sho Nuff 720]

I like to picture Jesus in a tuxedo T-Shirt because it says I want to be formal, but I'm here to party. Cause I like to party, so I want my Jesus to party

 

I like to picture Jesus as a mischievous badger.

[football_scooter 0]

Getting them all reved up Scooter. Here's my thought on the matter. Say your one line thank you to the almighty then move on. The crowd was pumped, the tv audience was pumped, and the players were pumped. Put that trophy in the air, give me a woot woot, shake that thing, and go crazy! Give me some freakin' excitement. To me it did seem like these guys were too long on the subject almost like we were hearing a church sermon taking the buzz out of the air. I was hammer time by the end of the game, God probably wasn't approving my state of feeling at that particular moment. &

 

Exactly. They were fine to say it, but they both went way too far with it.

 

You are free from his beliefs because you have the choice not to hear the man speak.

 

Not when he's on National Television immediately after winning the Superbowl.

 

If it were "the Tony Dungy preaches Christianity show" I might not have tuned in, eh?

 

but this was the post game show for the Superbowl which had nothing to do with Christianity until the owner & Dungy took it there. And to an extent far greater than a casual reference.

 

Which I personally found inappropriate.

[Parja 0]

I like to picture Jesus in a tuxedo T-Shirt because it says I want to be formal, but I'm here to party. Cause I like to party, so I want my Jesus to party

 

There is so much wisdom in the mind of Ricky Bobby.

[Cdub100 3,995]

I like to picture Jesus as a mischievous badger.

 

I like to think of Jesus as an Ice Dancer, dressed in an all-white jumpsuit, and doing an interpretive dance of my life.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Funny how the only one's saying I'm not making sense are the obvious Christains, while several here have been in agreement and paraphrased or made supporting comments which would indicate that I'm making perfect sense.

 

Look - I'm not anti-christain, nor am I anti-religion. Far from it. But the point is that no one's free to abuse a public forum for their own agenda, and both Dungy & the owner of the Colts are guilty of that.

 

Let me ask you something, Fumbles....Are you free to yell "Fire!" in a crowded movie-house? No, you aren't. Why? Because it could cause harm to others.

 

Are you free to say offensive things to your co-workers? of course not.

 

Are you free to preach your religious beliefs at work and in a public forum? Nope - not even close. Because our society is a melting pot and you cannot infringe on the beliefs of others or make statements in support of your faith because it would be potentially hurtful to someone not of your faith through exclusion.

 

Yet here's Dungy, at work, in front of a national audience making comments not just about having faith, which would have been fine...not just about God, which would have also been fine...but he made it about one specific faith: Christianity.

 

I know when I heard it, I personally felt excluded. Are you going to tell me I was "wrong" to feel this way? That I felt marginalized should be all the evidence you all need to know that it was inappropriate. I wasn't offended, but I definately felt excluded.

 

So indeed - your freedom TO religion does not superceed my freedom FROM your religion. Never forget that rights work both ways - the "double edged sword" as someone else mentioned. This is the point that the vast majority if Christains have trouble understanding - likely because one of the basic principals of Christianity is to proliferate.

 

 

How would professing a belief in God put others in danger?

And yes, I am free to preach my religious beliefs in a public forum...as long as its not in a setting like a school or publicly funded business.

but Dungy works for a privately owned business with an owner who praised God on that podium before he did.

 

That you felt excluded is your own ignorance. How did it exclude you? How does him professing that he believes that God gave him that ability exclude you from anything?

 

His freedom to that religious belief does not supercede yours from it...nor does your freedom from it supercede his right in that forum to profess it.

 

Your freedom is in the remote control. Your failure to use it is not Dungy's fault...it is your own.

[football_scooter 0]

No, freedom to and freedom from are two entirely separate, and somewhat opposed, concepts. That San Francisco living is starting to turn your brain to mush, my friend. The very beginning of freedom from is force against others - in this case, forcing other people to STFU because you are too insecure in your own beliefs to handle hearing someone else's. Besides, I doubt you would agree to any new rules or laws that limit your own self expression, so please can the "freedom for me but not for thee" junk. If you want to get all philosophical, I could probably prove to everyone's satisfaction save your own that "freedom from" is a null concept.

 

You are perfectly free to say whatever you believe. I will do the same. I for one am secure enough in my faith that I can handle it when others have different ideas on the topic.

 

If you would like some consideration from others to protect your sensitivity, you could encourage this if you started showing it to others.

 

And now is as good a time as any to declare:

 

IBTL

The topic would only be locked because of ignorant one-sided projection the likes of which you've posted here, complete with generalizations and personal attacks (SF turning my brain to mush, for example). Otherwise moving it to the geek forum might be the next logical move.

 

But since it's directly related to the Superbowl and the season is over, that would seem silly.

 

The fact is that I'm nowhere near as offended as you and other have tried to portray me as being. That's just one more way that you are attempting to marginalize my opinion.

 

What does it matter if I'm offended or not though? I'm merely pointing out that Dungy went out of his way to bring Christ into the Superbowl, and I found the extent of it to be inappropriate to the forum, and potentially offensive to some.

 

Like I said though - I fully expected this reaction from Christians - thanks for not disappointing me.

[Parja 0]

Your freedom is in the remote control.

 

That's a pretty sweet statement, right there. I think I'm gonna sig quote it out of context.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Look - I'm not anti-christain, nor am I anti-religion. Far from it. But the point is that no one's free to abuse a public forum for their own agenda, and both Dungy & the owner of the Colts are guilty of that.

 

 

 

I know when I heard it, I personally felt excluded. Are you going to tell me I was "wrong" to feel this way? That I felt marginalized should be all the evidence you all need to know that it was inappropriate. I wasn't offended, but I definately felt excluded.

 

 

2 things here.

- Again, people use their fame to state their own agenda all the time. It's nothing new.

 

- You are a monumental wuss. Since this hurt you so much I guess we can expect you to respect the feelings and opinions of others on the board from here on.

[Cdub100 3,995]

I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagles wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm hammered drunk!

[Sho Nuff 720]

Exactly. They were fine to say it, but they both went way too far with it.

Not when he's on National Television immediately after winning the Superbowl.

 

If it were "the Tony Dungy preaches Christianity show" I might not have tuned in, eh?

 

but this was the post game show for the Superbowl which had nothing to do with Christianity until the owner & Dungy took it there. And to an extent far greater than a casual reference.

 

Which I personally found inappropriate.

 

So you could not change the channel?

Again, you had the freedom not to hear him speak...you chose to listen.

[football_scooter 0]

That you felt excluded is your own ignorance. How did it exclude you? How does him professing that he believes that God gave him that ability exclude you from anything?

 

He expressed that the reason he won the Superbowl was because of his Christain faith - that he was proud to have done it the Christain way.

 

That you cannot see how this could be offensive and that it is obviously exclusionary is laughable.

 

And even moreso that it is somehow my fault if something said in the name of your religion is deemed to be in an inappropriate forum, and thus is offensive to me.

 

Maybe the Crusades were the fault of the Turks and Arabs because they were offended that Christains would want to convert them?

 

And of course the pro-choice people are at fault for not wanting to be mercilously harassed, picketed, or physically attacked up by Christains at the abortion clinics? After all - that's just Christains expressing their beliefs, eh?

 

 

Comedy.

[The Next Generation 11]

So you could not change the channel?

Again, you had the freedom not to hear him speak...you chose to listen.

 

Ummm...if the synopsis of the programming was "Religious...espousing the word of God..." we would have, we THOUGHT we were watching a football game and post-game celebration. BTW, I did change the channel after that. But I wasn't quick enough with the thumb.

 

I didn't mean it disrespectfully at all.....you're being a little too sensitive here.

 

Again, this sensitivity is baffling. Some of you guys are making wild, defensive assumptions and statements. Settle down and we can have a good discussion on this topic if you wish.

 

I'm not being sensitive, really. I'm enjoying the discussion.

 

...whereas Christians would actually acknowledge that a belief has assisted them.

 

I would counter that Atheists actually believe that their non-reliance on a mythical super being has assisted them in their lives as well. However, they don't feel the need to force their beliefs on others. The ONLY reason to praise God or thank God in public forum about a football game is to force your beliefs into the collective conscience of everyone watching the broadcast. I don't need you espousing it to me when I'm watching a SB celebration.

 

Also, I don't appreciate Hollywood actors espousing their beliefs during award acceptance speeches either.

I wish everyone would just keep their beliefs to themselves and live and let live.

[Grind 0]

Funny how the only one's saying I'm not making sense are the obvious Christains, while several here have been in agreement and paraphrased or made supporting comments which would indicate that I'm making perfect sense.

 

Look - I'm not anti-christain, nor am I anti-religion. Far from it. But the point is that no one's free to abuse a public forum for their own agenda, and both Dungy & the owner of the Colts are guilty of that.

 

Let me ask you something, Fumbles....Are you free to yell "Fire!" in a crowded movie-house? No, you aren't. Why? Because it could cause harm to others.

 

Are you free to say offensive things to your co-workers? of course not.

 

Are you free to preach your religious beliefs at work and in a public forum? Nope - not even close. Because our society is a melting pot and you cannot infringe on the beliefs of others or make statements in support of your faith because it would be potentially hurtful to someone not of your faith through exclusion.

 

Yet here's Dungy, at work, in front of a national audience making comments not just about having faith, which would have been fine...not just about God, which would have also been fine...but he made it about one specific faith: Christianity.

 

I know when I heard it, I personally felt excluded. Are you going to tell me I was "wrong" to feel this way? That I felt marginalized should be all the evidence you all need to know that it was inappropriate. I wasn't offended, but I definately felt excluded.

 

So indeed - your freedom TO religion does not superceed my freedom FROM your religion. Never forget that rights work both ways - the "double edged sword" as someone else mentioned. This is the point that the vast majority if Christains have trouble understanding - likely because one of the basic principals of Christianity is to proliferate.

 

 

So is your stance on Dungy and Isray based solely on your feelings of exclusion? Is our society made of entirely of 7th grade females? Cut the BS. Do you beleive every single person in America (or other countries) believes in hard work? If you don't, wouldn't it make sense that those individuals would feel excluded if the head coach had sited his team's hard work as a contributing factor toward the Super Bowl victory? Hell, I even think Peyton Manning made such statements in his speech while accepting the MVP trophy. How do you think those who don't beleive in hard work felt when Manning made such statements? Probably excluded. What's the point?

 

Oh...if you honestly think every individual believes in hard work, then I suppose there are other examples I could use. Just let me know.

[football_scooter 0]

2 things here.

- Again, people use their fame to state their own agenda all the time. It's nothing new.

1. just because people abuse their public forum to press their own agenda all the time doesn't make it any less inappropriate each time that they do.

 

You're attempting to argue that "2 wrongs make a right" - ask your, or anyone's mom about that one sometime...I'm sure she can clarify it for you.

 

- You are a monumental wuss. Since this hurt you so much I guess we can expect you to respect the feelings and opinions of others on the board from here on.

Once again you obviously failed to read what I've written prior to responding, or simply enjoy assuming things which I've already countered. Becaue AS STATED, I am not that offended by it. I am far more offended by people like you claiming that I am offended by it in attempt to marginalize me and belittle my opinions.

 

I am offended by very little - that doesn't mean I didn't feel excluded by Dungy turning the Superbowl into the 700 club, nor does it mean that I am not allowed to find the situation inappropriate and create this topic to discuss it.

 

Keep trying though.

[RoadLizard 73]

Its OK for Susan Saran-wrap and Tim Robbins to spew HATE for their country that made it possible for them to be rich and I gotta listen to that crap because its free speech. Dungy thanks God and as usual.... the Athiests are all focking bananas today. Anyone even trying to play the "Dungy shouldnt use a public forum to preach....blah, blah" can bite me. Noone should use a public forum for sharing their views.... so do we have to listen to Hollywood libbies and all their self-righteous Horse-Sh!t? Yeah we do.....

 

Angry Liberals = I LOVE IT!

[Fumbleweed 555]

Funny how the only one's saying I'm not making sense are the obvious Christains, while several here have been in agreement and paraphrased or made supporting comments which would indicate that I'm making perfect sense.

 

Look - I'm not anti-christain, nor am I anti-religion. Far from it. But the point is that no one's free to abuse a public forum for their own agenda, and both Dungy & the owner of the Colts are guilty of that.

 

Let me ask you something, Fumbles....Are you free to yell "Fire!" in a crowded movie-house? No, you aren't. Why? Because it could cause harm to others.

 

Are you free to say offensive things to your co-workers? of course not.

 

Are you free to preach your religious beliefs at work and in a public forum? Nope - not even close. Because our society is a melting pot and you cannot infringe on the beliefs of others or make statements in support of your faith because it would be potentially hurtful to someone not of your faith through exclusion.

 

Yet here's Dungy, at work, in front of a national audience making comments not just about having faith, which would have been fine...not just about God, which would have also been fine...but he made it about one specific faith: Christianity.

 

I know when I heard it, I personally felt excluded. Are you going to tell me I was "wrong" to feel this way? That I felt marginalized should be all the evidence you all need to know that it was inappropriate. I wasn't offended, but I definately felt excluded.

 

So indeed - your freedom TO religion does not superceed my freedom FROM your religion. Never forget that rights work both ways - the "double edged sword" as someone else mentioned. This is the point that the vast majority if Christains have trouble understanding - likely because one of the basic principals of Christianity is to proliferate.

 

I've argued with you before and I know it's not something I want to do again. I disagree with you here on so many levels it makes my head spin.....

 

I've got to get some work done. If you guys can keep this semi-civil, I'll leave it open, but if it heads in the next two hours where I'm afraid it might, we'll have to lock it up. You guys decide.

 

Ummm...if the synopsis of the programming was "Religious...espousing the word of God..." we would have, we THOUGHT we were watching a football game and post-game celebration. BTW, I did change the channel after that. But I wasn't quick enough with the thumb.

 

I'm not being sensitive, really. I'm enjoying the discussion.

I would counter that Atheists actually believe that their non-reliance on a mythical super being has assisted them in their lives as well. However, they don't feel the need to force their beliefs on others. The ONLY reason to praise God or thank God in public forum about a football game is to force your beliefs into the collective conscience of everyone watching the broadcast. I don't need you espousing it to me when I'm watching a SB celebration.

 

Also, I don't appreciate Hollywood actors espousing their beliefs during award acceptance speeches either.

I wish everyone would just keep their beliefs to themselves and live and let live.

 

I'm personally thrilled everyone doesn't "keep their beliefs to themselves" like you said. I admire people of conviction and I'm thrilled to live in a country where I don't have to do this.

 

In a lot of countries, you do have to keep your beliefs to yourself. I thank God that we don't.

[football_scooter 0]

So is your stance on Dungy and Isray based solely on your feelings of exclusion? Is our society made of entirely of 7th grade females? Cut the BS. Do you beleive every single person in America (or other countries) believes in hard work? If you don't, wouldn't it make sense that those individuals would feel excluded if the head coach had sited his team's hard work as a contributing factor toward the Super Bowl victory? Hell, I even think Peyton Manning made such statements in his speech while accepting the MVP trophy. How do you think those who don't beleive in hard work felt when Manning made such statements? Probably excluded. What's the point?

 

Oh...if you honestly think every individual believes in hard work, then I suppose there are other examples I could use. Just let me know.

 

More personal attacks...7th grade females, eh? Insults are a tool of the ignorant, friend. They certainly don't aid you in making your point.

 

As for that vague attempt at a point, apples, meet oranges.

 

If you're seriously attempting to make an analogy between someone preaching thier religion and someone preaching the benefits of hard work, then you really are reaching.

 

People universally work. Some harder than others. No one will be offended by someone working harder than they do.

 

People do not have the same universal beliefs, thus expressing your subscription to a specific faith is exclusionary.

 

Do I really need to spell that out for you?