more proof how RIDICULOUS and unwatchable the NBA has become

[edjr 6,724]

Dennis Johnson in his ENTIRE career sank 80, 3 point shots out of 464 attempts.

 

Last year, 13 players in the NBA attempted 400 or more 3 pointers.

 

Last year, 70 players hit 80 or more 3 pointers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

R.I.P. D.J.

[MDC 7,634]

Korver

[KSB2424 3,148]

Not only that, but it has filtered down all the way to the kids. I used to referee youth rec league games for some extra cash in college and these lil fockers were throwing up 3 pointers left and right. Half of them were so small they couldn't even get it to the rim.

[PackerAttacker 0]

Whats funny is how this has not translated into better 3 point shooting. Shooting overall is at a premium in the NBA... look at why we lost in the olympics. Sure, kids might be firing up too many 3's when they are young... but they all get smitten with the slashing style of kobe bryant and dwayne wade. Once they can dunk they dont practice shooting.

 

There just arent enough Jeff Hornacek's out there any more.

[Cdub100 3,976]

The mid range jumper is all but gone in the nba.

 

Only a few players can do it. (Rip Hamilton)

 

Kids are taught to drive to the hole in the hopes of getting fouled or scoring. Or wait around the 3 point line and get a kick out from the person driving.

 

Why shoot a mid range jumper when you can either score or get the other team in foul trouble. Ref's hardly ever call offensive fouls. It's gotten so bad a player driving to the hole can shove his arm in the defenders chest and get the ref to call the foul on the defender. Jordan did this for years and now everyone does it.

 

Also it's easier to just shoot a 3

[Fumbleweed 552]

The mid range jumper is all but gone in the nba.

 

Only a few players can do it. (Rip Hamilton)

 

Kids are taught to drive to the hole in the hopes of getting fouled or scoring. Or wait around the 3 point line and get a kick out from the person driving.

 

Why shoot a mid range jumper when you can either score or get the other team in foul trouble. Ref's hardly ever call offensive fouls. It's gotten so bad a player driving to the hole can shove his arm in the defenders chest and get the ref to call the foul on the defender. Jordan did this for years and now everyone does it.

 

Also it's easier to just shoot a 3

 

I think if they moved the high school and college 3-point line out further, it would help with all of this. It would leave the 3-pointers to the specialists and force other players to develop more of a mid-range game.

[Team Revell 1]

Maybe it is because DJ wasn't a very good 3 point shooter?

 

I mean, his last season in 1990 he went 1 for 24. His best season he made under 27% of 3's. For his career he was a 17% 3 point shooter.

 

No wonder he wasn't chucking them up there.

 

 

The trend started in the late 80's. Blame Michael Adams, Vernon Maxwell, Thunder Dan, Starks, etc.

[edjr 6,724]

Maybe it is because DJ wasn't a very good 3 point shooter?

 

I mean, his last season in 1990 he went 1 for 24. His best season he made under 27% of 3's. For his career he was a 17% 3 point shooter.

 

No wonder he wasn't chucking them up there.

The trend started in the late 80's. Blame Michael Adams, Vernon Maxwell, Thunder Dan, Starks, etc.

 

my point being.. tell me a starting point guard in the NBA today that doesn't shoot at least 100 a year?

 

Jason Kidd who is a TERRIBLE shooter, his 3 point stats this year.

 

78 for 277 34%

 

career 40% from the field.

 

D.J. career was 45% from the field. who would you rather have chucking up 300, 3s a year?

[Strike 5,813]

my point being.. tell me a starting point guard in the NBA today that doesn't shoot at least 100 a year?

 

Jason Kidd who is a TERRIBLE shooter, his 3 point stats this year.

 

78 for 277 34%

 

career 40% from the field.

 

D.J. career was 45% from the field. who would you rather have chucking up 300, 3s a year?

 

DJ was a career 17% 3 pt shooter. I hate Jason Kidd but I'd rather have him shoot the 3.

[edjr 6,724]

DJ was a career 17% 3 pt shooter. I hate Jason Kidd but I'd rather have him shoot the 3.

 

 

 

Larry Bird was a career 38% shooting the 3.

 

I bet you'd rather have Brent Barry take a 3, right? he is 40% career

 

Has nothing to do with the fact that when Bird and DJ played it was a different game? it's because Kidd is a better shooter than DJ?

 

well played.

[Strike 5,813]

Larry Bird was a career 38% shooting the 3.

 

I bet you'd rather have Brent Barry take a 3, right? he is 40% career

 

Has nothing to do with the fact that when Bird and DJ played it was a different game? it's because Kidd is a better shooter than DJ?

 

well played.

 

I'm sure DJ would have been a good 3 pt. shooter in todays day and age. Kids grow up practicing the three. He didn't because it didn't exist when he was learning the game. Personally, I wouldn't want DJ or Jason Kidd shooting the 3. DJ because he's a low percentage shooter. Kidd because he's a choker. I'd love to know what Kidd's percentage is when it matters, probably closer to 17% than 34. So, your original premise is kinda scary to begin with.

 

BTW, shooting 33% from 3 is the equivalent of shooting 50% from 2. I've got no problem with anyone who shoots over 33% taking the 3. The game has changed. Live with it.

 

Lastly, I know why the NBA is unwatchable to you. You have to watch the Celtics.

[dirty dug 0]

Johnson also played his first three years without a 3 point line, right?

[edjr 6,724]

 

 

Lastly, I know why the NBA is unwatchable to you. You have to watch the Celtics.

 

Kicking me when I'm down?

[Strike 5,813]

Kicking me when I'm down?

 

Sorry man. I actually feel for you. I'm a Lakers fan true and true but I loved the 80's rivalry. The Bird era Celtics were unfreakinbelievable. It's unfortunate they haven't been able to rebuild.

[edjr 6,724]

Johnson also played his first three years without a 3 point line, right?

yes, 79-80 was the 1st year.

 

Chris Ford 1st ever to hit a 3.

 

A CELTIC

 

 

What else made that game so special?

 

LARRY BIRDS 1st NBA GAME

 

Sorry man. I actually feel for you. I'm a Lakers fan true and true but I loved the 80's rivalry. The Bird era Celtics were unfreakinbelievable. It's unfortunate they haven't been able to rebuild.

 

The celtics sucking does suck, but we have the Red Sox and Patriots to fall back on. When the Celtics and Bruins were great, the Sox (cept 86) and Patriots (cept 85) were horrible.

 

I was crushed to hear D.J. had died yesterday... 52 isn't old, but it makes me think I'm getting old.

[dirty dug 0]

yes, 79-80 was the 1st year.

 

Chris Ford 1st ever to hit a 3.

 

A CELTIC

What else made that game so special?

 

LARRY BIRDS 1st NBA GAME

 

I just find it pretty laughable that the stat you use is 3 pointers when he didn't play with a 3 pt line for a few years, and then when he did he played alongside Larry Bird, Danny Ainge, Gus Williams, ect. Gee, I wonder why he didn't shoot as much as the game was different and he was a slasher, not a shooter.

[edjr 6,724]

I just find it pretty laughable that the stat you use is 3 pointers when he didn't play with a 3 pt line for a few years, and then when he did he played alongside Larry Bird, Danny Ainge, Gus Williams, ect. Gee, I wonder why he didn't shoot as much as the game was different and he was a slasher, not a shooter.

 

Iverson is a slasher.

 

 

Name me a player in the NBA that is a point guard that doesn't chuck up 100 3's a year?

 

What's the best team since Jordan? The Pistons maybe? show me how many 3's billups took.

[dirty dug 0]

Iverson is a slasher.

Name me a player in the NBA that is a point guard that doesn't chuck up 100 3's a year?

 

What's the best team since Jordan? The Pistons maybe? show me how many 3's billups took.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?statsId=3527

 

Last year and this year.

 

And the best team since Jordan would be the Lakers, not the Pistons.

 

And again, why is this the reason the NBA is unwatchable? Because people shoot from further out?

[Cdub100 3,976]

Iverson is a slasher.

Name me a player in the NBA that is a point guard that doesn't chuck up 100 3's a year?

 

What's the best team since Jordan? The Pistons maybe? show me how many 3's billups took.

 

The best team since Jordan's Bulls....? I would say the 00-02 Lakers

 

00 1047 3pa 344 made, Glen Rice most attempted

01 1275 3pa 434 made, Robert Horry

02 1439 3pa 510 made, Derick Fisher

 

[dirty dug 0]

The best team since Jordan's Bulls....? I would say the 00-02 Lakers

 

00 1047 3pa 344 made, Glen Rice most attempted

01 1275 3pa 434 made, Robert Horry

02 1439 3pa 510 made, Derick Fisher

 

 

What numbers are those???

[Cdub100 3,976]

What numbers are those???

 

Year - 3 points attempted - 3 pointers made - Person on team that attempted most 3 pointers

00 1047 3pa - 344 made, Glen Rice most attempted

01 1275 3pa - 434 made, Robert Horry

02 1439 3pa - 510 made, Derick Fisher

[edjr 6,724]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?statsId=3527

 

Last year and this year.

 

And the best team since Jordan would be the Lakers, not the Pistons.

 

And again, why is this the reason the NBA is unwatchable? Because people shoot from further out?

 

another reason, not the only reason.

 

I'm not the only one that thinks this. The NBA is too "thugged" out. Too much "and one" bullsh!t. Not much skill, too much dunking, shooting stinks, passing isn't what it used to be. We can thank ESPN for a lot of that too.

 

Year - 3 points attempted - 3 pointers made - Person on team that attempted most 3 pointers

00 1047 3pa - 344 made, Glen Rice most attempted

01 1275 3pa - 434 made, Robert Horry

02 1439 3pa - 510 made, Derick Fisher

 

 

Not counting the playoffs, larry bird attempted 1727 3's his entire career.

 

Remember when hitting a 3 pointer used to mean something? it's a joke now. Maybe they should institute a 4 point shot for anything beyond half court?

[dirty dug 0]

Year - 3 points attempted - 3 pointers made - Person on team that attempted most 3 pointers

00 1047 3pa - 344 made, Glen Rice most attempted

01 1275 3pa - 434 made, Robert Horry

02 1439 3pa - 510 made, Derick Fisher

 

Gotcha, I thought that was saying that Fisher made 510 in '02 and I was about to question that! LOL

 

edjr, the game has evolved. You used to not be able to dunk. At one time there wasn't a 3-point line. Games evolve. With the significant ratings the NBA gets, apparently some people prefer it this way (note: I didn't say I do, but at least I accept it for what it is)

[Snoopy1 0]

my point being.. tell me a starting point guard in the NBA today that doesn't shoot at least 100 a year?

 

Jason Kidd who is a TERRIBLE shooter, his 3 point stats this year.

 

78 for 277 34%

 

career 40% from the field.

 

D.J. career was 45% from the field. who would you rather have chucking up 300, 3s a year?

 

If a player shoots 33% or better from 3 point land, he would have to shoot 50% of better from 2's to score the same amount of points. Since only a few guys can shoot 50%, mostly centers, it makes sense for a guy to continue chucking them up if he's hitting 34%.

 

 

 

BTW, shooting 33% from 3 is the equivalent of shooting 50% from 2. I've got no problem with anyone who shoots over 33% taking the 3. The game has changed. Live with it.

 

Lastly, I know why the NBA is unwatchable to you. You have to watch the Celtics.

 

 

Hadn't read this when I posted.

 

See, if me and Strike can agree on something, then it has to be right...

[BMoney 0]

no offense..but DJ was hard to watch also..in a Sam Cassell kinda way....

 

with the nfl..and nhl season...and march madness, i havent noticed the nba in 20 years....and from what people say, i havent missed a thing...

[edjr 6,724]

If a player shoots 33% or better from 3 point land, he would have to shoot 50% of better from 2's to score the same amount of points. Since only a few guys can shoot 50%, mostly centers, it makes sense for a guy to continue chucking them up if he's hitting 34%.

Hadn't read this when I posted.

 

See if me and Strike can agree on something, then it has to be right...

 

 

in todays NBA there are 28 guys shooting 40% of better from 3. I don't know why that is. I guess the 3 point shot in college might have a lot to do with that. In Bird's days the 3 point shot was seen as being hard to hit, now it's a joke, why is that?

 

no offense..but DJ was hard to watch...

 

 

what on earf dis mean?

[Strike 5,813]

in todays NBA there are 28 guys shooting 40% of better from 3. I don't know why that is. I guess the 3 point shot in college might have a lot to do with that. In Bird's days the 3 point shot was seen as being hard to hit, now it's a joke, why is that?

what on earf dis mean?

 

For the reasons you already mentioned. When DJ came in to the league the 3 didn't exist. When Bird came it was brand new. The game didn't revolve around it as it does now. Now people know it exists so they work on it and have it in their arsenal before they get to the NBA. And the guys who don't (Kobe, Wade) add it early in their careers. Even Jordan wasn't a 3 point shooter when he first entered the NBA but was more than competent by the time he retired.

 

 

See, if me and Strike can agree on something, then it has to be right...

 

We've agreed before!!!

[edjr 6,724]

For the reasons you already mentioned. When DJ came in to the league the 3 didn't exist. When Bird came it was brand new. The game didn't revolve around it as it does now. Now people know it exists so they work on it and have it in their arsenal before they get to the NBA. And the guys who don't (Kobe, Wade) add it early in their careers. Even Jordan wasn't a 3 point shooter when he first entered the NBA but was more than competent by the time he retired.

We've agreed before!!!

 

Agreed, but my point being.

 

Isn't it more exciting to see a basketball game with passing, shooting and the occasional 3? the 3 point shot was seen as a "dagger in the heart" late in games back then, now it's just, EH, we'll go hit one now.

[Snoopy1 0]

in todays NBA there are 28 guys shooting 40% of better from 3. I don't know why that is. I guess the 3 point shot in college might have a lot to do with that. In Bird's days the 3 point shot was seen as being hard to hit, now it's a joke, why is that?

 

 

 

Um, that was a complete and total non-response to the fact that a player hitting 33% of his 3 point attempts is doing a good job. Why does Kidd get a for hitting at a statistically good rate?

 

But to try an answer your question the game changed from mid-range guys and post plays to the current version. Also more people may have started to understand that hitting the long range shot at 33% was easier then being a 50% two point shooter, therefore attempting more shots and making it much more common-place then it was before.

[edjr 6,724]

Um, that was a complete and total non-response to the fact that a player hitting 33% of his 3 point attempts is doing a good job. Why does Kidd get a for hitting at a statistically good rate?

 

But to try an answer your question the game changed from mid-range guys and post plays to the current version. Also more people may have started to understand that hitting the long range shot at 33% was easier then being a 50% two point shooter, therefore attempting more shots and making it much more common-place then it was before.

 

I personally have never seen Kidd as a clutch shooter, so I picked him out. Even though the stats don't agree he is a career bad 3-point shooter, almost everytime I watched him play, if the game was on the line he missed an important 3.

[Strike 5,813]

Agreed, but my point being.

 

Isn't it more exciting to see a basketball game with passing, shooting and the occasional 3? the 3 point shot was seen as a "dagger in the heart" late in games back then, now it's just, EH, we'll go hit one now.

 

There's still passing and shooting. Most mid range shooting nowadays is done by big men, such as Adonis Haslem who can nail a 17 footer all day long, but it's still there. Phoenix is one of the most exciting and better passing teams, probably in NBA history. Detroit plays team ball as well as anyone.

[edjr 6,724]

I must be going for the day, dentist appt at 3:30

 

I'd like to thank those that didn't agree with me in this topic for having an intelligent discussion without any name calling.

[Snoopy1 0]

I personally have never seen Kidd as a clutch shooter, so I picked him out. Even though the stats don't agree he is a career bad 3-point shooter, almost everytime I watched him play, if the game was on the line he missed an important 3.

 

 

I'd probably agree he's not a clutch shooter, but IMO, you can only look at "effectiveness" "good/bad" from a statistical standpoint.

 

Meh, I agree, much of the excitement has been taken out of the 3 now. Games evolve, go through trends. Back when Dr. J played in the NFL, it was still mostly platoons, you didn't have first down linebackers, all the different coverages depending on down and distance. The same 11 guys played 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th basically. Some people think that was a better NFL game...things change.

[Foghorn Leghorn 0]

A couple of points:

 

1) Did the NCAA even HAVE a three-point line back when Bird and them were playing? From what I recall, they didn't, so guys like Bird probably didn't have nearly as much practice from long range.

 

2) No one's mentioned the fact that Dennis Johnson was one of the top defensive players in the NBA for years, and that was one of the main reasons the Celtics got him from Phoenix (again, IF I remember correctly!).

 

I was a Celtics fan for years until we finally got the Raptors, and I was saddened to hear this news.

 

Rest in peace, DJ.

[Riddlen 1]

Lastly, I know why the NBA is unwatchable to you. You have to watch the Celtics.

[Strike 5,813]

 

1) Did the NCAA even HAVE a three-point line back when Bird and them were playing? From what I recall, they didn't, so guys like Bird probably didn't have nearly as much practice from long range.

 

 

 

This isn't really relevant. The college 3 is a top of the key shot, 2-3 feet shorter than the NBA.

[Riddlen 1]

A couple of points:

 

1) Did the NCAA even HAVE a three-point line back when Bird and them were playing? From what I recall, they didn't, so guys like Bird probably didn't have nearly as much practice from long range.

 

2) No one's mentioned the fact that Dennis Johnson was one of the top defensive players in the NBA for years, and that was one of the main reasons the Celtics got him from Phoenix (again, IF I remember correctly!).

 

I was a Celtics fan for years until we finally got the Raptors, and I was saddened to hear this news.

 

Rest in peace, DJ.

The NCAA adopted the 3 point line in 1986

[Foghorn Leghorn 0]

This isn't really relevant. The college 3 is a top of the key shot, 2-3 feet shorter than the NBA.

 

Ture, but all of a sudden there was greater value in the longer distance shot, therefore more long-distance shots are being taken, no?

 

Actually, you remind me of another question I have: why are so many rules so different between US college and pro?

[Strike 5,813]

Ture, but all of a sudden there was greater value in the longer distance shot, therefore more long-distance shots are being taken, no?

 

Actually, you remind me of another question I have: why are so many rules so different between US college and pro?

 

I think it has to do with the talent level. Having a three point line at the top of the key in the NBA would be a joke. Shaq is probably the only guy who wouldn't make that shot consistently. I believe the Zone D wasn't allowed in the NBA for a long time because they thought it would slow the game down. Ironically, they started allowing it to improve scoring if memory serves correctly. I suspect most rule differences have to do with the different level of competition and style of game that constitutes the NBA versus college.

[t.j 35]

I agree with Team Revell. Dennis Johnson didn't shoot the three because he friggin sucked at it! I'm surprised there's anyone in the history of the NBA who took 400+ 3 pointers while making less than 20% of them.

 

Larry Bird played at basically the same time as DJ and jacked up over 1700 threes in his career. That's a heck of a lot more than DJ. But, Bird was an awesome shooter and never took more than 237 in a season. And you are right, there are a lot of guys taking more than that these days, way too many. Gilbert Arenas has already launched 416 threes this year. Corey Maggette has the most attempts buy a guy who shoots the 3 as badly (or worse) than DJ did... 43 attempts and he's only made 5!