The Bush Legacy: Failure

[wiffleball 4,797]

"Al Qaeda Resurgent

 

Almost five and a half years ago, America -- united by the shock of 9/11 -- understood exactly what it needed to do. It had to find, thwart and take down the command structure of Al Qaeda, which was responsible for the deaths of 3,000 innocent people on American soil. Despite years of costly warfare in Afghanistan and Iraq, America today is not significantly closer to that essential goal.

 

At a crucial moment, the Bush administration diverted America's military strength, political attention and foreign aid dollars from a necessary, winnable war in Afghanistan to an unnecessary, and by now unwinnable, war in Iraq. Al Qaeda took full advantage of these blunders to survive and rebuild. Now it seems to be back in business.

 

As reported last week, American intelligence and counterterrorism officials believe that Al Qaeda has rebuilt its notorious training camps, this time in Pakistan's loosely governed tribal regions near the Afghan border. Camp graduates are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq -- and may well be plotting new terrorist strikes in the West.

 

The same officials point to more frequent and more current videos as evidence that Al Qaeda's top leaders, Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahri -- once on the run for their lives and unable to maintain timely communications with their followers -- now feel more secure. Al Qaeda is not as strong as it was when its Taliban allies ruled Afghanistan. But, the officials warn, it is getting there.

 

Al Qaeda's comeback didn't have to happen. And it must not be allowed to continue. The new Qaeda sanctuaries in Pakistan do not operate with the blessing of the Pakistani government. But Pakistan's military dictator, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, has not tried very hard to drive them out. In recent months he has virtually conceded the tribal areas to local leaders sympathetic to Al Qaeda. President Bush needs to warn him that continued American backing depends on his doing more to rid his country of people being trained to kill Americans.

 

Washington also has to enlist more support on the Afghan side of the border. NATO allies need to drop restrictions that hobble their troops' ability to fight a resurgent Taliban. Afghan leaders need to wage a more aggressive campaign against corruption and drug trafficking. And Washington needs to pour significantly more money into rural development, to give Afghan farmers alternatives to drug cultivation. One reason General Musharraf has been hedging his bets with the Taliban and Al Qaeda is his growing doubt that Washington is determined to succeed in Afghanistan.

 

Having failed to finish off Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, Washington now finds itself fighting Qaeda-affiliated groups on multiple fronts, most recently in Somalia. Al Qaeda's comeback in Pakistan is a devastating indictment of Mr. Bush's grievously flawed strategies and misplaced Iraq obsession. Unless the president changes course, the dangers to America and its friends will continue to multiply. "

 

(Drudge/NYT)

_______________________________________________________________

 

If Bush's legacy is determined by his effectiveness against Terrorism, three facts really hurt him:

 

1) Over 5 years after declaring Al Qaeda and OBL 'enemy number one', Al Qaeda is resurgent & OBL and company are reported (by our own intelligence services) to be able to plan and execute attacks like the ones seen in the UK. Our own intelligence services tell us that they've resurrected their training camps and have trained many more since 9/11.

 

2) According to our own NIE, As a direct result of Iraq, we are less safe, recruiting and funding for AQ around the world has increased as a result of the Occupation of Iraq.

 

...So by our own account (not some liberal commie hippie commentator - our own NIE), Al Qaeda has actually BENEFITTED from GWB and is able to plan and execute large scale terrorist attacks.

 

3) Last: If we're really fighting 'terrorists' in Iraq & 'Stan (as we're told), that means that almost 30 THOUSAND Americans have been victims (either killed or wounded) of terrorism under Bush's watch. So much for "no terrorist attacks since 9/11" - But I guess terrorists killing Americans doesn't 'count' as long as it's not in your back yard. You don't count the hundreds of good men who can't walk or hug their children - because they got maimed somewhere else. - That' doesn't COUNT in the WOT. - Even though they're alledgedly FIGHTING the WOT against "terrorists".

 

_______________________

 

In the meantime, Bush is ignoring the camps, the madrassas, the terrorist in Pakistan - against the promises in his vaunted "Bush Doctrine". In fact, he's giving more aid to Pak than virtually any other place on earth. - While they plan, and we wait, for the next attack. - But I guess it won't be his fault as long as it doesn't happen here and/or not in the next 24 months...

 

 

Yeah, not a stellar record there.

 

Really wish this focker would read - and FOLLOW - the so-called "Bush Doctrine".

[Voltaire 5,502]

Mission Accomplished

[Boz/BoFan 0]

After 911, those that want to do harm to us saw that we are vulnerable and not the untouchable monolith some made us out to be. That alone was a signal to the masses that if done correctly we could be hurt, this more than anything else has inspired those who already wanted to hurt us to get off their ass and take a shot.

 

We dont even know if OBL is still alive and we have taken out some MAJOR terrorist leaders and one ruthless dictator. To take them completely out it will take the support of the complete nation back home, you and yours play a part in that failure. It will take a million slices to cut down this elephant and you are just one less slice of many.

 

"In the meantime, Bush is ignoring the camps, the madrassas, the terrorist in Pakistan" The fact that you just loosely throw that in and actually believe it takes out that one leg you were left standing on. Just as you criticized that police officer in the mall shooting a week or so ago without having been there on taken the time to actually read how it went down, you do the same thing with the most import situation our generation will face in our lifetime. You have your agenda and you will write your little New York times style articles here to push it. If you were actually calling it down the middle you would mention the major victories we've had over there. But you dont know what they are, and you could probably care less.....just push that agenda baby. Ill bet my net worth that Bush is not ignoring the camps......would you like some links?

[wiffleball 4,797]

Gee, let's see where we can predict BoKnowsNothing will link:

 

"Cheney Says Pakistan Must Do More! "

 

" Bush Says Pak Needs To Do More! "

 

 

But hey, I think I'll just stick with our own intel as opposed to "you better - or else!" They had five years to inflict "or else", what is "or else?" Pakistan is one of the top recipients of US aid. Way to get tuff with the one country that embodies everything you said you were going to fight against in the mythical Bush Doctrine.

 

Let's face it, I posted our own intel assessment. - And Bo can't say diddly to refute it. - Unless you think the NIE (comprised of all of America's top intelligence agencies) is WRONG. - You know, kinda like with the WMD?

[Boz/BoFan 0]

Gee, let's see where we can predict BoKnowsNothing will link:

 

"Cheney Says Pakistan Must Do More! "

 

" Bush Says Pak Needs To Do More! "

But hey, I think I'll just stick with our own intel as opposed to "you better - or else!" They had five years to inflict "or else", what is "or else?" Pakistan is one of the top recipients of US aid. Way to get tuff with the one country that embodies everything you said you were going to fight against in the mythical Bush Doctrine.

 

Let's face it, I posted our own intel assessment. - And Bo can't say diddly to refute it. - Unless you think the NIE (comprised of all of America's top intelligence agencies) is WRONG. - You know, kinda like with the WMD?

 

So they are incompetent douches when it fits your argument for WMD's but the right hand of God when it comes this info, which incidentally..........fits your agenda. The reason I'll own you all day long is because I im not fueled by agenda, I see the facts and and act accordingly. Its so much easier this way, you should try it some time.

[Voltaire 5,502]

If you were actually calling it down the middle you would mention the major victories we've had over there. But you dont know what they are, and you could probably care less

 

The only major victory we've had over there is Congress changed parties. The rest of whatever we've allegedly accomplished, you're right, I couldn't care less. And whatever it is that we supposedly accomplish, I can assure you, they aren't grateful in the least for it except for one thing- we did give Shiites the opportunity to turn the tables and start slaughter Sunnis so I guess they're grateful for that.

 

Starting to think... we can now rest assured there are no WMD in Iraq. So congrats on that.

 

Thinking more... maybe we made a permanent friend in the Kurds, but even there, Turkey's anger over that and fences will need to be mended with them.

 

Meanwhile the whole country is worse off than it was before, assmegs blowing up each other, refugees everywhere, the only illusion of government is provided by death squad gangs, hatred of the US intensifies. No electricity, no work, people can't shop without risking their lives.

 

The one saving grace of it all is that they hate each other as much or more than they hate us so if we leave, hopefully they'll focus their vengance on other factions since US troops won't be around.

 

 

Argh.... ETA- Sorry, I went off on my Iraq rant.

 

The problem of Iraq is of course it diverts money, troops and attention from the real problem in Afghanistan and Pakistan where bin Laden is. Why is this war so much less important than the Iraq one?

[SUXBNME 1,607]

The only major victory we've had over there is Congress changed parties.

 

A few of my close friends in the Mossad don't like this one bit

[Boz/BoFan 0]

The only major victory we've had over there is Congress changed parties. The rest of whatever we've allegedly accomplished, you're right, I couldn't care less. And whatever it is that we supposedly accomplish, I can assure you, they aren't grateful in the least for it except for one thing- we did give Shiites the opportunity to turn the tables and start slaughter Sunnis so I guess they're grateful for that.

 

Starting to think... we can now rest assured there are no WMD in Iraq. So congrats on that.

 

Thinking more... maybe we made a permanent friend in the Kurds, but even there, Turkey's anger over that and fences will need to be mended with them.

 

Meanwhile the whole country is worse off than it was before, assmegs blowing up each other, refugees everywhere, the only illusion of government is provided by death squad gangs, hatred of the US intensifies. No electricity, no work, people can't shop without risking their lives.

 

The one saving grace of it all is that they hate each other as much or more than they hate us so if we leave, hopefully they'll focus their vengance on other factions since US troops won't be around.

Argh.... ETA- Sorry, I went off on my Iraq rant.

 

The problem of Iraq is of course it diverts money, troops and attention from the real problem in Afghanistan and Pakistan where bin Laden is. Why is this war so much less important than the Iraq one?

 

 

So we kill OBL terrorism stops, right? Thats gonna be a hard sell to Hammas, the rest of AQ, Islamic Brotherhood, And these guys......granted, these are just the ones we know about.......

 

1. Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)

2. Abu Sayyaf Group

3. Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade

4. Ansar al-Islam

5. Armed Islamic Group (GIA)

6. Asbat al-Ansar

7. Aum Shinrikyo

8. Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)

9. Communist Party of the Philippines/New People's Army (CPP/NPA)

10. Continuity Irish Republican Army

11. Gama’a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group)

12. HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement)

13. Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)

14. Hizballah (Party of God)

15. Islamic Jihad Group

16. Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)

17. Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM) (Army of Mohammed)

18. Jemaah Islamiya organization (JI)

19. al-Jihad (Egyptian Islamic Jihad)

20. Kahane Chai (Kach)

21. Kongra-Gel (KGK, formerly Kurdistan Workers' Party, PKK, KADEK)

22. Lashkar-e Tayyiba (LT) (Army of the Righteous)

23. Lashkar i Jhangvi

24. Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)

25. Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG)

26. Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group (GICM)

27. Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK)

28. National Liberation Army (ELN)

29. Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)

30. Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)

31. Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLF)

32. PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC)

33. al-Qa’ida

34. Real IRA

35. Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)

36. Revolutionary Nuclei (formerly ELA)

37. Revolutionary Organization 17 November

38. Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)

39. Salafist Group for Call and Combat (GSPC)

40. Shining Path (Sendero Luminoso, SL)

41. Tanzim Qa'idat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn (QJBR) (al-Qaida in Iraq) (formerly Jama'at al-Tawhid wa'al-Jihad, JTJ, al-Zarqawi Network)

42. United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC)

 

and these, maybe some repeats.....

 

# Abu Sayyaf (1991-present; Islamist separatists; the Philippines)

 

* Based in the southern islands of Jolo, Basilan, and Mindanao.

* Branched off of the Moro National Liberation Front.

* Allegedly partnered with Jemaah Islamiyah and Al-Qaeda.

 

# Aden-Abyan Islamic Army (Yemen)

# Adolat - Uzbekistan

# Akramiya - Uzbekistan

# Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Late 1970s-present; Islamists; Egypt)

 

* Seeks to establish Islamist state in Egypt. Usually targets secular establishments, government buildings, police, the military, minorities, tourists, and “morally offensive” buildings.

 

# Armed Islamic Group (1992-present; Islamists; Algeria)

 

* Seeks to establish Islamist state in Algeria. Began operations in 1992 after the Algerian government ignored election results that gave victory to Islamist political parties.

 

# Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades

# Ansar al-Islam (December 2001-present; Islamists; Iraq)

 

* In Arabic, "Supporters of Islam."

* Also known as "Partisans of Islam or Helpers of Islam."

 

# Al-Qaeda (1988-present; Islamists; Afghanistan, Pakistan, and worldwide)

 

* In Arabic, "the foundation", "the base", or "the database" kept by intelligence services of anti-Soviet Afghani fighters.

* Also known as Qa‘idat al-Jihad, Islamic Army for the Liberation of the Holy Places, World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders, Islamic Salvation Foundation, and the Osama bin Laden Network.

* Related: Alneda (former web site), As-Sahab (affiliated public relations organization),

* Cells: Buffalo six, Hamburg cell,

 

# Asbat al-Ansar (early 1990s-present; Lebanese Sunni Islamists; southern Lebanon)

 

* In Arabic, "the League of the Followers."

* Acronym for "Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya," or Islamic Resistance Movement.

 

# Jama'at al-Tawhid wa'al-Jihad/Al-Qaeda in Iraq - Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's Sunni network, operating in Iraq

 

* on U.S. State Department list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations

 

# Eastern Turkestan Islamic Movement - al-Qaeda linked separatist group in China's Xinjiang Autonomous Region aiming to establish an Islamic state. Banned by China, along with related groups East Turkestan Liberation Organization, World Uighur Youth Congress and East Turkistan Information Center[3]

# Egyptian Islamic Jihad - Egypt (active since the late 1970s)

# Hamas - West Bank, Gaza Strip. Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the European Union, Israel, and the United States

# Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM) - Pakistan and Kashmir

# Hizb-an-nusra - Uzbekistan

# Hizb ut-Tahrir - international (legal in Britain and Australia)

# Hezbollah - Lebanon; Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, Israel, and the United States

# Hizbul Mujahideen - Pakistan and Kashmir

# Hofstad Network - Netherlands

# Islamic Front for the Liberation of Bahrain - Defunct

# Islamic Movement of Central Asia - Central Asia (affiliated with Al Qaeda)

 

* Islamic Movement of Tajikistan - Tajikistan

* Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan - Uzbekistan

 

# Jaish-e-Mohammed - Pakistan

# Jaish Ansar al-Sunna - Iraq

# Jama'at al-Jihad al-Islami

# Jemaah Islamiyah - Southeast Asia

# Jihad Rite - Australia (linked with Al Qaeda. Founded in 2001)

# Lashkar-e-Jhangvi - Pakistan

# Lashkar-e-Toiba - Pakistan

# Maktab al-Khadamat - Afghanistan - Defunct

# Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group - Morocco and Spain

# Moro Islamic Liberation Front - (Islamic separatists; the Philippines)

# Palestinian Islamic Jihad - Israel, West Bank, Gaza Strip

# People Against Gangsterism and Drugs - South Africa

# Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat - Algeria

# Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan - Pakistan

# Students Islamic Movement of India - India

# Takfir wal-Hijra - Egypt/Sudan/Algeria

# Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat- e-Moh

* Al-Barakaat (Al-Qaida front)

* Al-Wafa Humanitarian Organization (Al-Qaida front)

* Benevolence International Foundation (Al-Qaida front)

* Global Relief Foundation (Al-Qaida front)

* Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (Hamas)

* Konsojaya Trading Company (Jemaah Islamiyah front)

 

There are more but you get the point.

[SUXBNME 1,607]

So we kill OBL terrorism stops, right? Thats gonna be a hard sell to Hammas, the rest of AQ, Islamic Brotherhood, And these guys......granted, these are just the ones we know about.......

 

1. Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)

2. Abu Sayyaf Group

3. Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade

4. Ansar al-Islam

5. Armed Islamic Group (GIA)

6. Asbat al-Ansar

7. Aum Shinrikyo

8. Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)

9. Communist Party of the Philippines/New People's Army (CPP/NPA)

10. Continuity Irish Republican Army

11. Gama’a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group)

12. HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement)

13. Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)

14. Hizballah (Party of God)

15. Islamic Jihad Group

16. Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)

17. Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM) (Army of Mohammed)

18. Jemaah Islamiya organization (JI)

19. al-Jihad (Egyptian Islamic Jihad)

20. Kahane Chai (Kach)

21. Kongra-Gel (KGK, formerly Kurdistan Workers' Party, PKK, KADEK)

22. Lashkar-e Tayyiba (LT) (Army of the Righteous)

23. Lashkar i Jhangvi

24. Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)

25. Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG)

26. Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group (GICM)

27. Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK)

28. National Liberation Army (ELN)

29. Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)

30. Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)

31. Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLF)

32. PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC)

33. al-Qa’ida

34. Real IRA

35. Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)

36. Revolutionary Nuclei (formerly ELA)

37. Revolutionary Organization 17 November

38. Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)

39. Salafist Group for Call and Combat (GSPC)

40. Shining Path (Sendero Luminoso, SL)

41. Tanzim Qa'idat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn (QJBR) (al-Qaida in Iraq) (formerly Jama'at al-Tawhid wa'al-Jihad, JTJ, al-Zarqawi Network)

42. United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC)

 

You forgot PETA

[donhaas 19]

The reason I'll own you all day long is because I im not fueled by agenda, I see the facts and and act accordingly.

 

Funniest thing you've ever said, tubby.

And you've had some doozies

 

Keep 'em coming.

[Boz/BoFan 0]

Funniest thing you've ever said, tubby.

And you've had some doozies

 

Keep 'em coming.

 

oh man. earth shattering stuff there. sounds like you dont have too much on your mind sooooo why dont you let us handle this pallo. i now know why you want to force equal results rather than equal opportunity ,,,,,,because you're one of them,,,,,the ones that wouldnt make it with 1million dollar trust fund or gubment handouts. From your posts, its obvious you JUST DONT HAVE IT UPSTAIRS.

 

You have the greatest, fastest, most comprehensive research tool at your disposal and you still cant contribute. Go back to your '88 F150 and your 700sq ft apartment. I have no sympathy for failures in this society.

[Voltaire 5,502]

Half of the dingleberries on your (Bo/Boz fan's) list I never heard of, the other half are mostly all regional groups that are no threat to the US. Even of the big ones with the most moneyt and notoriety that stand out, Hamas has never attacked the US and Hezbullah hasn't hit us since -like- 1983 and that attack was in their own country.

 

That's why al Qaeda is the most important one by far.

[Boz/BoFan 0]

Half of the dingleberries on your (Bo/Boz fan's) list I never heard of, the other half are mostly all regional groups that are no threat to the US. Even of the big ones with the most moneyt and notoriety that stand out, Hamas has never attacked the US and Hezbullah hasn't hit us since -like- 1983 and that attack was in their own country.

 

That's why al Qaeda is the most important one by far.

 

Oh so youuuuuu've never heard of these......is that how we fight the war now, on the intel from some dood on a fantasy football forum? Awesome brother. Incedentally they were important enough to be listed on a government website so im sure some time and effort has gone into surveillance of these groups. And good call on Hamas............

 

"On November 8, 2006 the military wing of Hamas called on Muslims around the world to attack American targets. "America is offering political, financial and logistic cover for the Zionist occupation crimes, and it is responsible for the Beit Hanoun massacre. Therefore, the people and the nation all over the globe are required to teach the American enemy tough lessons," Hamas said in a statement sent to The Associated Press. Ghazi Hamad, spokesman for the Hamas-led Palestinian government said, however, that the group had no intention of attacking American targets. [54]"

 

Who cares about those guys??????? They've never attacked us.......no threat at all!!

[donhaas 19]

oh man. earth shattering stuff there. sounds like you dont have too much on your mind sooooo why dont you let us handle this pallo. i now know why you want to force equal results rather than equal opportunity ,,,,,,because you're one of them,,,,,the ones that wouldnt make it with 1million dollar trust fund or gubment handouts. From your posts, its obvious you JUST DONT HAVE IT UPSTAIRS.

 

You have the greatest, fastest, most comprehensive research tool at your disposal and you still cant contribute. Go back to your '88 F150 and your 700sq ft apartment. I have no sympathy for failures in this society.

 

Grab another cheeseburger, chubs, and relax a bit.

 

You have the greatest, fastest, most comprehensive research tool at your disposal and all you do is regurgitate Rush.

I know fat "D" student losers feel like they must stick together, but give it a rest already. Rush is doing fine without you slobbing his knob 24/7.

Try venturing out from his website once in awhile.

There's all types of info available..... some from people who aren't fat losers who live in their mom's basement like you.

Real world.... go out and see it... I know it can be bright outside sometimes, but you'll get used to it.

 

[Boz/BoFan 0]

Grab another cheeseburger, chubs, and relax a bit.

 

You have the greatest, fastest, most comprehensive research tool at your disposal and all you do is regurgitate Rush.

I know fat "D" student losers feel like they must stick together, but give it a rest already. Rush is doing fine without you slobbing his knob 24/7.

Try venturing out from his website once in awhile.

There's all types of info available..... some from people who aren't fat losers who live in their mom's basement like you.

Real world.... go out and see it... I know it can be bright outside sometimes, but you'll get used to it.

 

 

I work for a living azzhole. I havent heard Rush in like 10 years. Its one of those things that happens when you , ya know, have a job. I am however flattered that becasue of what I write here you think its a carbon copy of Rush, one of the, if not THEE most listened too/successful people on the radio. Whille you still make cheeseburger jokes. I know, you are poor, and probably hungry so that CBurger keeps poppin into your head. Well you know what, maybe if you would put down the hippie pipe and sacrificed a bit whey you were younger you wouldnt be living off of payday loans at 50% interest. Clown. We do reap what we sew, dont we.

[birdbrain3X 0]

Half of the dingleberries on your (Bo/Boz fan's) list I never heard of,

 

Well heck that does it fellas, call the White House and cancel the war efforts cause Voltaire hasn't heard of you. Um yea, I feel safer already.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Voltaire 5,502]

Oh so youuuuuu've never heard of these......is that how we fight the war now, on the intel from some dood on a fantasy football forum? Awesome brother. Incedentally they were important enough to be listed on a government website so im sure some time and effort has gone into surveillance of these groups. And good call on Hamas............

 

"On November 8, 2006 the military wing of Hamas called on Muslims around the world to attack American targets. "America is offering political, financial and logistic cover for the Zionist occupation crimes, and it is responsible for the Beit Hanoun massacre. Therefore, the people and the nation all over the globe are required to teach the American enemy tough lessons," Hamas said in a statement sent to The Associated Press. Ghazi Hamad, spokesman for the Hamas-led Palestinian government said, however, that the group had no intention of attacking American targets. [54]"

 

Who cares about those guys??????? They've never attacked us.......no threat at all!!

 

Far better me than your retarded hero.

 

What I'm saying is the ones on the list that I recgnise with any notoriety at all are all small, local, and poorly financed. The other half must be even more obscure. I'm not going to get bent out of shape over some pack of teenagers who threw rocks at cops in Uzbekistan 20 years ago. Most of the list are too minor to even make the news.

 

We ought to deal with the real threats on the list and when you narrow it down to who has attacked the US, you only get a couple and oon US soil only one -al Qaeda- the one your retarded hero mostly ignores.

[Boz/BoFan 0]

Far better me than your retarded hero.

 

What I'm saying is the ones on the list that I recgnise with any notoriety at all are all small, local, and poorly financed. The other half must be even more obscure. I'm not going to get bent out of shape over some pack of teenagers who threw rocks at cops in Uzbekistan 20 years ago. Most of the list are too minor to even make the news.

 

We ought to deal with the real threats on the list and when you narrow it down to who has attacked the US, you only get a couple and oon US soil only one -al Qaeda- the one your retarded hero mostly ignores.

 

If you are saying my retarded hero is Bush, you are wrong. Ive come down on Bush many times and likewise given credit to Clinton for the positive things he did while in office (welfare reform was incredible). But Bush is the sitting president and we are at war. A war I happen to agree with. While I dont agree with every strategy, Im for the war as a whole. You, are not, I have no problem with that. But to reduce 99% of the terrorist organizations listed on a gov website to merely rock throwers is disingenuous.

[Voltaire 5,502]

If you are saying my retarded hero is Bush, you are wrong. Ive come down on Bush many times and likewise given credit to Clinton for the positive things he did while in office (welfare reform was incredible). But Bush is the sitting president and we are at war. A war I happen to agree with. While I dont agree with every strategy, Im for the war as a whole. You, are not, I have no problem with that. But to reduce 99% of the terrorist organizations listed on a gov website to merely rock throwers is disingenuous.

 

I'm not saying there aren't turds floating around in Planet Earth's toilet regions, just that the only time they can get their sh*t on you is when you stick your hand in the toilet to clean them up. Tim McVeigh, Ted Kacinski, and the anthrax mailer (likely) are all homegrown.

 

How many Americans have been injured by the groups on that list in the last 15 years? Less than ten perhaps.

[donhaas 19]

I work for a living azzhole. I havent heard Rush in like 10 years. Its one of those things that happens when you , ya know, have a job.

 

so your boss let's you regurgitate neo-con talking points and tough chickenhawk talk for 8 hours a day on the internet but he won't let you listen to Rush?? something sounds fishy here.

I think as long as you keep the french fries fresh, you should be able to do whatever you want.

 

I am however flattered that becasue of what I write here you think its a carbon copy of Rush, one of the, if not THEE most listened too/successful people on the radio.

You're flattered to be compared to a D- student? Good to have ambition.

 

 

We do reap what we sew, dont we.

 

Yes, we do. And all of those doughnuts have made you one of those guys who has to ride in a cart when he goes to the grocery store. ....

 

and washes himself with a rag on a stick...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-ejgAtQ-QI

[D_House 0]

Given all these terror networks worldwide, doesn't it seem somewhat shortsighted to be focusing so much time, effort, money, political capital, and personnel non one country?

 

It would seem to me that our resources would have been better spent finishing the job in Afghanistan, and then following that up by using the political capital garnered through 9/11 and the success of Afghanistan to assure cooperation from friendly nations in multilateral efforts to quash terrorism. That way we could have avoided cooperating with known terrorist sponsors like Pakistan, and Iran's saber-rattling would have been met with disapproval from the entire global community.

 

My $0.02

[akaoni 0]

After you fellows are finished with your bickering, maybe you should take a look at Seymour Hersh's new article in the New Yorker.

 

In the past few months, as the situation in Iraq has deteriorated, the Bush Administration, in both its public diplomacy and its covert operations, has significantly shifted its Middle East strategy. The “redirection,” as some inside the White House have called the new strategy, has brought the United States closer to an open confrontation with Iran and, in parts of the region, propelled it into a widening sectarian conflict between Shiite and Sunni Muslims.

 

To undermine Iran, which is predominantly Shiite, the Bush Administration has decided, in effect, to reconfigure its priorities in the Middle East. In Lebanon, the Administration has coöperated with Saudi Arabia’s government, which is Sunni, in clandestine operations that are intended to weaken Hezbollah, the Shiite organization that is backed by Iran. The U.S. has also taken part in clandestine operations aimed at Iran and its ally Syria. A by-product of these activities has been the bolstering of Sunni extremist groups that espouse a militant vision of Islam and are hostile to America and sympathetic to Al Qaeda.

 

One contradictory aspect of the new strategy is that, in Iraq, most of the insurgent violence directed at the American military has come from Sunni forces, and not from Shiites. But, from the Administration’s perspective, the most profound—and unintended—strategic consequence of the Iraq war is the empowerment of Iran. Its President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has made defiant pronouncements about the destruction of Israel and his country’s right to pursue its nuclear program, and last week its supreme religious leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said on state television that “realities in the region show that the arrogant front, headed by the U.S. and its allies, will be the principal loser in the region.”

 

So long story short, according to Hersh, the US government has within the last year done a bit of an about face. Through clandestine and covert operations the US is seeking to strengthen Sunni extremest groups (like the Muslim Brotherhood and Salafis, who both have had AQ ties) in an attempt to weaken Shiite positions in the Middle East. It's a dangerous game, and one the US has played before in Afghanistan and in the Iran Contra manuvers of the Reagan administration.

 

Whatever you think of Hersh, he's been pretty much correct each step allong the course our adventures in the Middle East. He predicted the conflict with Iran before it was a blip on the National radar. The article is well worth a read, and even if 10% of what he writes is true, I think it's a very scary course of action..

[Toro 3]

What do you want the US to do? Invade Pakistan?

[parrot 790]

It will take a million slices to cut down this elephant and you are just one less slice of many.

Then again, maybe we'd have a better chance of slicing down the elephant if we actually went after the elephant instead of using the elephant's attack as an excuse to go after that rhino with the pissy attitude.

[MDC 7,955]

I just pray we don't go to war with Iran until after this administration is out of office. I don't trust Bush or Cheney to present an accurate picture of the threat Iran poses to us, and even if a military strike were justified this White House is totally incompetent - I have no faith in their ability to pull it off.

[parrot 790]

Given all these terror networks worldwide, doesn't it seem somewhat shortsighted to be focusing so much time, effort, money, political capital, and personnel non one country?

 

It would seem to me that our resources would have been better spent finishing the job in Afghanistan, and then following that up by using the political capital garnered through 9/11 and the success of Afghanistan to assure cooperation from friendly nations in multilateral efforts to quash terrorism. That way we could have avoided cooperating with known terrorist sponsors like Pakistan, and Iran's saber-rattling would have been met with disapproval from the entire global community.

 

My $0.02

[Snuff 10]

 

I agree, hindsight is wonderful. Too bad we can't go back in time and change some things, and thus we have to figure out what to do next. Which some people in this country just won't do for some reason. They'd rather focus on past blunders by the President whom they hate and then look forward to any future blunders by him/his administration so they can whine some more. I see it here and on other message boards.

[footballpowers 0]

Given all these terror networks worldwide, doesn't it seem somewhat shortsighted to be focusing so much time, effort, money, political capital, and personnel non one country?

 

It would seem to me that our resources would have been better spent finishing the job in Afghanistan, and then following that up by using the political capital garnered through 9/11 and the success of Afghanistan to assure cooperation from friendly nations in multilateral efforts to quash terrorism. That way we could have avoided cooperating with known terrorist sponsors like Pakistan, and Iran's saber-rattling would have been met with disapproval from the entire global community.

 

My $0.02

 

 

Wow! Very well said. The problem is when we told the world they were either with us or against us we isolated ourselves from all of our allies.

[parrot 790]

I agree, hindsight is wonderful. Too bad we can't go back in time and change some things, and thus we have to figure out what to do next. Which some people in this country just won't do for some reason. They'd rather focus on past blunders by the President whom they hate and then look forward to any future blunders by him/his administration so they can whine some more. I see it here and on other message boards.

Yeah, it is hindsight, and no, we can't go back in time and change anything.

 

But when dildoes like Bozo fan say things like "you people are the reason we aren't winning" it's worth pointing out that the reason we aren't winning is because our leadership launched us into a counter-productive war with no real Plan B for winning it if things didn't go exactly according to their completely unrealistic Plan A. People like that jackass want to revise history and make this a failure of will rather than put the blame where it belongs, on faulty strategies, crappy planning, and misplaced priorities at the highest levels.

 

Plain and simple, invading Iraq was STUPID and that's the reason we find ourselves in the bind we do, not because the big bad liberals back home don't sufficiently support the war.

[MDC 7,955]

I agree, hindsight is wonderful. Too bad we can't go back in time and change some things, and thus we have to figure out what to do next. Which some people in this country just won't do for some reason. They'd rather focus on past blunders by the President whom they hate and then look forward to any future blunders by him/his administration so they can whine some more. I see it here and on other message boards.

 

This post is based on a few faulty assumptions.

 

* There was no "hindsight" needed to see that the war in Iraq was a bad idea. The White House was told at the time that a lot of the WMD evidence was flawed, invading Iraq could set off a sectarian war, and we'd need many more troops to complete the mission, but they went ahead with it anyway.

 

* It's not just "past blunders" by Bush that we rip him for. He initially focked up with the decision to go to war with Iraq and by putting his trust in an incompetent like Rumsfeld ... and he continues to fock up by being too stubborn to change his strategery in any real way.

 

* Who is rooting for future blunders? I'm praying that we don't go to war with Iran because the White House is full of liars and incompetents and I wouldn't trust Bush to manage a McDonald's.

[D_House 0]

I agree, hindsight is wonderful. Too bad we can't go back in time and change some things, and thus we have to figure out what to do next. Which some people in this country just won't do for some reason. They'd rather focus on past blunders by the President whom they hate and then look forward to any future blunders by him/his administration so they can whine some more. I see it here and on other message boards.

Some people had foresight on this matter, ( http://www.commonwealthclub.org/archive/02...ore-speech.html ), but no matter.

 

The problem with Iraq now is that the situation is so difficult that there are no easy answers, and I don't think any single person has the whole solution. Really, are any of our options attractive? It's my personal belief that we've made our bed, and now we have to lie in it, so to speak. But it's a hard pill to swallow. Especially given the understandable difficulties in trusting an adminstration whose foreign policy has, as wiffleball put it, failed up to this point. These failures make future endeavors that much more difficult.

 

But what Iraq has offered us is a precedent for the situation in Iran. In my opinion a full scale invasion of Iran would be a complete mistake. While we have to assure that Iran does not go ahead with any possible plans to build nukes, we must absolutely make sure our intelligence is top notch and that we use diplomacy in multilateral efforts to get Iran to disarm before hastily engaging in any type of military solution.

 

Also, a lot of people feel very strongly about the illegal immigration issue and the ongoing failure by this (and of course previous) administrations to secure the border. While often framed as an economic debate, the issue needs to be rearticulated within the context of the War on Terror: our border with Mexico is still our biggest vulnerability with regards to terrorism. As some have pointed out on this board, the problem seems to actually be getting worse - see the plans for the international highway to link Mexico, the US, and Canada.

[Snuff 10]

This post is based on a few faulty assumptions.

 

* There was no "hindsight" needed to see that the war in Iraq was a bad idea. The White House was told at the time that a lot of the WMD evidence was flawed, invading Iraq could set off a sectarian war, and we'd need many more troops to complete the mission, but they went ahead with it anyway.

 

* It's not just "past blunders" by Bush that we rip him for. He initially focked up with the decision to go to war with Iraq and by putting his trust in an incompetent like Rumsfeld ... and he continues to fock up by being too stubborn to change his strategery in any real way.

 

* Who is rooting for future blunders? I'm praying that we don't go to war with Iran because the White House is full of liars and incompetents and I wouldn't trust Bush to manage a McDonald's.

 

Hindsight. It is what it is.

 

Opinions, we all gots em.

 

Sure seems like some people root for future blunders with this administration. Something bad happens, some people will discuss that, and only that. Something good happens, we don't hear a peep from them. IMO, more bad than good has happened, and i know you will agree with that, and I think we can agree with the state of the media, we see alot more bad than good. Some people have hard ons' for the bad stuff.

 

Some people had foresight on this matter, ( http://www.commonwealthclub.org/archive/02...ore-speech.html ), but no matter.

 

The problem with Iraq now is that the situation is so difficult that there are no easy answers, and I don't think any single person has the whole solution. Really, are any of our options attractive? It's my personal belief that we've made our bed, and now we have to lie in it, so to speak. But it's a hard pill to swallow. Especially given the understandable difficulties in trusting an adminstration whose foreign policy has, as wiffleball put it, failed up to this point. These failures make future endeavors that much more difficult.

 

But what Iraq has offered us is a precedent for the situation in Iran. In my opinion a full scale invasion of Iran would be a complete mistake. While we have to assure that Iran does not go ahead with any possible plans to build nukes, we must absolutely make sure our intelligence is top notch and that we use diplomacy in multilateral efforts to get Iran to disarm before hastily engaging in any type of military solution.

 

Also, a lot of people feel very strongly about the illegal immigration issue and the ongoing failure by this (and of course previous) administrations to secure the border. While often framed as an economic debate, the issue needs to be rearticulated within the context of the War on Terror: our border with Mexico is still our biggest vulnerability with regards to terrorism. As some have pointed out on this board, the problem seems to actually be getting worse - see the plans for the international highway to link Mexico, the US, and Canada.

 

Agreed on all accounts, however, you can't have "hindsight" at the beginning. That was merely an opinion, an opinion that proved to be true, but at the time....an opinion nonetheless.

[Guest Davaco]

and katrina

[Snuff 10]

and katrina

 

Yeah, and a few weeks ago when we had those ice storms in the north east. Focking Bush and his weather patterns.

[Franknbeans 46]

Yeah, and a few weeks ago when we had those ice storms in the north east. Focking Bush and his weather patterns.

 

[Snuff 10]

 

Yeah, it's stupid to blame Bush on a bad hurricane but not on ice storms.

[wiffleball 4,797]

It just warms my wittle heart to see my night threads still alive and kicking the morning after....

 

Post Count:

BoPhan - 98

everybody else: 2

 

[Uh-huh 0]

Hindsight? What a load of revisionist crap.

 

People, please stop this BoBoFan abuse. It's creepy to watch: it's like a bunch of adults beating up a cranky 4 year old.

[Guest Davaco]

Yeah, and a few weeks ago when we had those ice storms in the north east. Focking Bush and his weather patterns.

 

well, not the weather, but the response to it. specifically, making FEMA part of homeland security. too much red tape led to a stalled response, the millions lost in fraud, and the condition of New Orleans and other Gulf coast areas today.

[Snuff 10]

well, not the weather, but the response to it. specifically, making FEMA part of homeland security. too much red tape led to a stalled response, the millions lost in fraud, and the condition of New Orleans and other Gulf coast areas today.

 

Agreed. But really, all these things you mention, you really feel all of them were GB's fault huh? His and his alone? There was no line of order or anything?