Chronic Husker 85 Posted March 7, 2007 They were sour grapes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,597 Posted March 7, 2007 They were sour grapes. Do you ever say anything that makes one lick of sense? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surferskin 30 Posted March 7, 2007 for once the redskins are being somewhat responsible with their money and the rest of the league is going focking crazy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,597 Posted March 7, 2007 for once the redskins are being somewhat responsible with their money and the rest of the league is going focking crazy. they don't have any left to spend. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chronic Husker 85 Posted March 7, 2007 Do you ever say anything that makes one lick of sense? Are you a Pats fan? I know a lot of people here think you're a bandwagon fan, but do you consider yourself a Pats fan? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surferskin 30 Posted March 7, 2007 they don't have any left to spend. when has that stopped them before? people said they didn't have any money last year too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SmartassBoiler 0 Posted March 7, 2007 Tis the result of a market void of superstars. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,597 Posted March 7, 2007 Are you a Pats fan? I know a lot of people here think you're a bandwagon fan, but do you consider yourself a Pats fan? Giving Daniel Graham 15 million up front is laughable. hth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chronic Husker 85 Posted March 7, 2007 Giving Daniel Graham 15 million up front is laughable. hth Good job on deflecting. Guess my post did make sense, huh? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,597 Posted March 7, 2007 Tis the result of a market void of superstars. They are paying Graham like he's a superstar, it's laughable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FranksTanks 0 Posted March 7, 2007 He'll be a superstar from now on! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,597 Posted March 7, 2007 Good job on deflecting. Guess my post did make sense, huh? any fan of the NFL, cept a Broncos fan knows what a joke this contract is. hth He'll be a superstar from now on! Last time a blocking TE was a superstar? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swirvenirvin 25 Posted March 7, 2007 I thought Scheffler was looking pretty good Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,597 Posted March 7, 2007 I thought Scheffler was looking pretty good That's ok, Graham is best at blocking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Davaco Posted March 7, 2007 for once the redskins are being somewhat responsible with their money and the rest of the league is going focking crazy. not really. the skins went crazy when the cap was much lower. those contracts took up way more cap space than these deals with the cap 27% higer than just 2 years ago, you can lop off 4 mil in guarantees (15 x 27%). 11 mil guaranteed over 5 years isnt much Giving Daniel Graham 15 million up front is laughable. hth its not up front, its guaranteed. they could have guaranteed his salary for a few years or spaced out the bonus over a few years. plus, he has to play out the entire deal to get the 30 mil, which he wont. no one in the nfl does. one thing that will happen becasue of the guaranteed money is more trades. look at the NBA, they dont trade players, they trade salaries Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FranksTanks 0 Posted March 7, 2007 Last time a blocking TE was a superstar? I can name some blocking WRs that have been superstars in the Broncos system. And TEs usually thrive in Denver. Plus he'll finally have a superstar QB feeding him the rock! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surferskin 30 Posted March 7, 2007 it hurts to say it but i agree with everthing edger said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,597 Posted March 7, 2007 I can name some blocking WRs that have been superstars in the Broncos system. And TEs usually thrive in Denver. Plus he'll finally have a superstar QB feeding him the rock! Plummer decided not to retire? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FranksTanks 0 Posted March 7, 2007 Plummer decided not to retire? Plummer did free them up some cash by retiring! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,597 Posted March 7, 2007 Plummer did free them up some cash by retiring! To overpay a TE? I have no problem with the Broncos signing graham, but 15 focking million guaranteed?????? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted March 7, 2007 I can name some blocking WRs that have been superstars in the Broncos system. And TEs usually thrive in Denver. Plus he'll finally have a superstar QB feeding him the rock! 2006 Total of 38 receptions to 3 different TEs 2005 Putz led the way with 37 receptions for TEs...481 yards...0 TDs...1 TD to a TE 2004 A bit better year...but the love was spread around...Putz had the recpetions and decent yards...but only 2 TDs...Hape with 4 TDs but only 8 receptions, They had one TE to really thrive and that was Shannon Sharpe... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,790 Posted March 7, 2007 Shanny's smarter'n me, but I sure don't understand this one: Last year, they cut Putzier. +Putzier is an inch taller and the same weight as Graham. +Putzier was top 10 in TE's the last 2 years he played with Den averaging 14 ypc. + In the same 2-year span, he had more rec and a better ypc than Graham. + Putzier then goes on to sign a 4 yr $8M with Houston (2M guaranteed) - And they bring in this guy in for 5 yr $30 million - 12M guaranteed? WTF? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,232 Posted March 7, 2007 To overpay a TE? I have no problem with the Broncos signing graham, but 15 focking million guaranteed?????? I think it is hilarious.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SmartassBoiler 0 Posted March 7, 2007 They are paying Graham like he's a superstar, it's laughable. I understand that, but he's arguably the most talented TE on the market in an overall (catching and blocking) sense. The fact the cap went up and the fact there isn't elite talent at any position in free agency drives the market up, and allows non-elite talent to cash in with elite talent contracts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,597 Posted March 7, 2007 Shanny's smarter'n me, but I sure don't understand this one: Last year, they cut Putzier. +Putzier is an inch taller and the same weight as Graham. +Putzier was top 10 in TE's the last 2 years he played with Den averaging 14 ypc. + In the same 2-year span, he had more rec and a better ypc than Graham. + Putzier then goes on to sign a 4 yr $8M with Houston (2M guaranteed) - And they bring in this guy in for 5 yr $30 million - 12M guaranteed? WTF? [chwords] It's pretty obvious, you're just an upset Patriots fan. [chwords] Are you a Pats fan? I know a lot of people here think you're a bandwagon fan, but do you consider yourself a Pats fan? Look at all these "patriot fans" chiming in on what great contract this was. Good call champ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgod 0 Posted March 7, 2007 It no doubt has to be a big picture thing. With a coach who can run the ball as well as Shanny can to sign one of the better blocking TEs who is also a threat to catch the ball it will open things up even more for Henry, Mike Bell and whoever else is hauling the rock for Denver. Plus, it'll give Cutler another dimension in the game when they can mask runs and passes better. A lot of money? Sure, but hey, there's a reason these guys are running teams and we're sitting here criticizing them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chronic Husker 85 Posted March 7, 2007 Shanny's smarter'n me, but I sure don't understand this one: Last year, they cut Putzier. +Putzier is an inch taller and the same weight as Graham. +Putzier was top 10 in TE's the last 2 years he played with Den averaging 14 ypc. + In the same 2-year span, he had more rec and a better ypc than Graham. + Putzier then goes on to sign a 4 yr $8M with Houston (2M guaranteed) - And they bring in this guy in for 5 yr $30 million - 12M guaranteed? WTF? Putzier was a very poor blocker and that's why he was let go. Scheffler's no better. There's no secret why Denver made this move. The running game dropped a notch last year and Shanny's making changes. Traded Foster away. Traded Bell away. Got a blocking TE. I don't have a problem with the signing at all. Graham definitely fills a need. He'll probably be here three years and then gone. If Denver has the money to spend, why save it when you have needs? Overpay for Graham a bit? Probably. But I like his contract a hell of a lot better than the ones Leonard Davis and Welker are getting. Shanahan is a known genius at capology. cmh ranted all year about how Denver was going to be in salary cap trouble this offseason. Sure doesn't look like it to me. I'm glad we have a GM and owner not afraid to go out and do what they have to in order to get players to help their team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,790 Posted March 7, 2007 As I recall, I think this is a Cap thing from Shanny's perspective. With the comparison I threw out, there's no way that Graham is worth SO much more than Putzier. But last year, as I recall, the Broncos had to clear cap space. Seems like Putz was a cap victim as I recall (could be wrong) They focked up by cutting him to be sure. A year later, after they realized they focked up, the market tightened up on them. but then again, Like I said, Shanny's a crapload smarter than me. Could be none of the above. Just hard to believe Graham is almost 400% better than Putzier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgod 0 Posted March 7, 2007 Putzier was a very poor blocker and that's why he was let go. Scheffler's no better. There's no secret why Denver made this move. The running game dropped a notch last year and Shanny's making changes. Traded Foster away. Traded Bell away. Got a blocking TE. I don't have a problem with the signing at all. Graham definitely fills a need. He'll probably be here three years and then gone. If Denver has the money to spend, why save it when you have needs? Overpay for Graham a bit? Probably. But I like his contract a hell of a lot better than the ones Leonard Davis and Welker are getting. Shanahan is a known genius at capology. cmh ranted all year about how Denver was going to be in salary cap trouble this offseason. Sure doesn't look like it to me. I'm glad we have a GM and owner not afraid to go out and do what they have to in order to get players to help their team. What are the numbers you hear on Welker? Seems to me it's not as steep as it was intially reported. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,597 Posted March 7, 2007 What are the numbers you hear on Welker? Seems to me it's not as steep as it was intially reported. 5 years, 18 million? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted March 7, 2007 Plummer did free them up some cash by retiring! Actually, he retired from the Bucs. His trade may have saved them from some space, but it would be the same as if they released him from the roster. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GettnHuge 2 Posted March 7, 2007 yay, leonard davis no longer most overpaid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,232 Posted March 7, 2007 yay, leonard davis no longer most overpaid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,597 Posted March 7, 2007 yay, leonard davis no longer most overpaid ch says you're a patriots fan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redtodd 7 Posted March 7, 2007 Can you imagine what Gonzo would have gotten had he went into Free Agency? I do not think anyone expected this Free Agency would be THIS crazy. Last year people were thinking the Vikings overpaid for Hutchinson (7 years, 49 Million). Now that is the going rate for mediocre guards. The Graham deal is for too much, but that is where the market is going. I actually think he will put up decent receiving numbers in Denver. The Patriots chose to use him more for blocking, but he is still a serious threat in the passing game when he goes out for a catch. Especially after the catch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Davaco Posted March 7, 2007 Can you imagine what Gonzo would have gotten had he went into Free Agency? I do not think anyone expected this Free Agency would be THIS crazy. Last year people were thinking the Vikings overpaid for Hutchinson (7 years, 49 Million). Now that is the going rate for mediocre guards. The Graham deal is for too much, but that is where the market is going. I actually think he will put up decent receiving numbers in Denver. The Patriots chose to use him more for blocking, but he is still a serious threat in the passing game when he goes out for a catch. Especially after the catch. the 49 mil signed by todays guards are a lesser percentage of the cap than hutchinson's deal. People are just looking at the $$$$ without putting them into context. a 49,000,000 dollar contact in a 109 mil cap is different than a 49,000,000 dollar contact in a 98 mil cap (or what ever it was last year) as for graham(and every NFL player), he will never see the full 30mil, but with 15 mil guaranteed, it is more of a 3 year 15 mil deal + whatever his base salaries are. or they may guarantee his salary for a few years. 15 mil guaranteed, is not a 15 mil signing bonus. if it was reported as a 3 year 16 mil deal, would anyone even notice? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redtodd 7 Posted March 7, 2007 the 49 mil signed by todays guards are a lesser percentage of the cap than hutchinson's deal. People are just looking at the $$$$ without putting them into context. a 49,000,000 dollar contact in a 109 mil cap is different than a 49,000,000 dollar contact in a 98 mil cap (or what ever it was last year) To put it into context, the 49 million example is over 7 years so the contract is averaging 7 million a year. In a 98 million cap, that is 7.1%. In a 109 million cap, it is 6.4%. Which do you think is smarter? Spending 7.1% of your cap on the best or close to the best guard in the league, or 6.4% of your cap on a mediocre guard. as for graham(and every NFL player), he will never see the full 30mil, but with 15 mil guaranteed, it is more of a 3 year 15 mil deal + whatever his base salaries are. or they may guarantee his salary for a few years. 15 mil guaranteed, is not a 15 mil signing bonus. if it was reported as a 3 year 16 mil deal, would anyone even notice? Yes, $5+ million a year for a non-top flight TE is a lot and people would still notice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Davaco Posted March 7, 2007 To put it into context, the 49 million example is over 7 years so the contract is averaging 7 million a year. In a 98 million cap, that is 7.1%. In a 109 million cap, it is 6.4%. Which do you think is smarter? Spending 7.1% of your cap on the best or close to the best guard in the league, or 6.4% of your cap on a mediocre guard. Yes, $5+ million a year for a non-top flight TE is a lot and people would still notice. dockery, steinbach and dielman are better than hutch....he got fat off walter jones. just ask the fans in minnesota 3 years 16 mil for graham, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites