Return of the Pooper

[davebg 0]

I read those rules. I don't see anywhere in those rules anything precluding the dog from pooping on her private property. Do you? It just talks about where the dogs can poop once they ARE off private property. If they told her it couldn't poop on the balcony, that's clearly outside of the written rules you all agreed upon. - There you might have an argument in getting what they told her codified. But without it being codified, you don't seem to have much to stand on.

I'm not a lawyer, so maybe you'd have a point if we were in a court of law, but we're not. In fact, due to the way my development is set up, enforcement of such a thing is entirely within the purview of the board and mangement. I know this b/c in the past when I've lodged complaints against her w/the Health Dept the inspector pretty much told me that he didn't have jurisdiction.

 

The rules were set up to instruct dog owners as to where it was and was not acceptable for their dog to do its business on development property and while it does not specifically bar her from letting her dog crap on her balcony, IMO it is implied. However, even if you could make the argument that the rule was unclear in some way, she was supposedly told, flat out, no if's and's or but's...that she could not let her dog do that in the future by the board. Period. End of story.

[TheNewGirl 1,633]

I'm not a lawyer, so maybe you'd have a point if we were in a court of law, but we're not. In fact, due to the way my development is set up, enforcement of such a thing is entirely within the purview of the board and mangement. I know this b/c in the past when I've lodged complaints against her w/the Health Dept the inspector pretty much told me that he didn't have jurisdiction.

 

The rules were set up to instruct dog owners as to where it was and was not acceptable for their dog to do its business on development property and while it does not specifically bar her from letting her dog crap on her balcony, IMO it is implied. However, even if you could make the argument that the rule was unclear in some way, she was supposedly told, flat out, no if's and's or but's...that she could not let her dog do that in the future by the board. Period. End of story.

 

Therein lies your problem.

 

In YOUR OPINION, something is IMPLIED. You interpret it one way, the pet owner interprets it another. As Devil's Advocate, in HER OPINION, it's IMPLIED that what she's doing is just fine.

 

End of story.

[davebg 0]

Therein lies your problem.

 

In YOUR OPINION, something is IMPLIED. You interpret it one way, the pet owner interprets it another. As Devil's Advocate, in HER OPINION, it's IMPLIED that what she's doing is just fine.

 

End of story.

Regardless, there was nothing IMPLIED about the board telling her that she could not do it anymore.

 

I only wish that was the end of the story.

[TheNewGirl 1,633]

Regardless, there was nothing IMPLIED about the board telling her that she could not do it anymore.

 

I only wish that was the end of the story.

 

Okay, you said...

 

 

The rules were set up to instruct dog owners as to where it was and was not acceptable for their dog to do its business on development property and while it does not specifically bar her from letting her dog crap on her balcony, IMO it is implied.

 

It's doesn't specifically bar her from letting th dog crap on her balcony, yet in your opinion it's implied? This makes NO sense, esp. given that you said the board told her she couldn't do it.

 

There is nothing in writing that says, "No dogs crapping on balconies" right?

[wiffleball 4,797]

... even if you could make the argument that the rule was unclear in some way, she was [b]supposedly[/b] told, flat out, no if's and's or but's...that she could not let her dog do that in the future by the board. Period. End of story.

 

You don't even have PROOF of this - and you think it's "Period. End of Story?"

 

Dude, I'm trying to be nice here, but I think you're a little wrapped up in this to see the forest for the trees:

 

1) Your community rules - that you all signed off on - make no mention of pooping on private property.

 

2) You apparently have nothing proving that the board really signed off on this, nor that they told the woman her dog couldn't do this?

 

Step back. Take a deep breath and read and re-read those 2 points. If you're going to go up against the board - and its President, you're going to look like an arse if and when somebody points out #1 and #2 and the BEST you have is "supposedly".

 

What do you have to firm up and document #2?

 

And in the meantime, before you call for a board purge, I'd suggest you get #1 amended. If the board is so "with you" on this, that shouldn't be a problem at all. But it's hard to call for a guy's head for not enforcing a rule that doesn't focking exist.

 

I'm not trying to argue with you man. I'm trying to give you good advice. You can either come across as some kind of raving lunatic, or you can work the process to its natural - and beneficial - conclusion.

 

Your call.

[TheNewGirl 1,633]

Clearly, I am with wiff on this one.

 

He's pretty much making the same points I am about this.

[wiffleball 4,797]

Clearly, I am with wiff on this one.

 

He's pretty much making the same points I am about this.

 

Yes. We agree.

 

Wanna make out?

[davebg 0]

You don't even have PROOF of this - and you think it's "Period. End of Story?"

 

Dude, I'm trying to be nice here, but I think you're a little wrapped up in this to see the forest for the trees:

 

1) Your community rules - that you all signed off on - make no mention of pooping on private property.

 

2) You apparently have nothing proving that the board really signed off on this, nor that they told the woman her dog couldn't do this?

 

Step back. Take a deep breath and read and re-read those 2 points. If you're going to go up against the board - and its President, you're going to look like an arse if and when somebody points out #1 and #2 and the BEST you have is "supposedly".

 

What do you have to firm up and document #2?

 

And in the meantime, before you call for a board purge, I'd suggest you get #1 amended. If the board is so "with you" on this, that shouldn't be a problem at all. But it's hard to call for a guy's head for not enforcing a rule that doesn't focking exist.

 

I'm not trying to argue with you man. I'm trying to give you good advice. You can either come across as some kind of raving lunatic, or you can work the process to its natural - and beneficial - conclusion.

 

Your call.

The rules as they were written do not mention the balconies. I said as much. However, when I was told by a board member that my neighbor was instructed that she could no longer do so I figured that would be the end of it.

 

Did that actually happen? I can't say for sure, as I don't know if a board member was delivering the message or if that task was relegated to Bill...who doesn't always follow through on the board's instructions.

 

Also, I think you are a little confused in the sense that this Bill character is not on the board. The board is made up of owners. Bill is not an owner or a resident. He was hired to run the day to day operations of the development. He is supposed to take direction from the board, but instead has this nasty habit of trying to play the residents against the board.

 

I have spoken directly about this issue w/two of the seven board members and they have shown me nothing but support in this matter. The problem lies in the fact that the board gives Bill instructions to follow and then he doesn't. Hence, why I am also attacking him.

 

As for getting the board to change the bylaws...HAHAHAHHAHAHA. Apparently, you have not lived in such a community. They have been trying to change the rule against hard wood floors in non-first floor units for years. The problem is that per the bylaws it takes a 2/3 majority of owners to make a change. Not 2/3 vote in favor of, but 2/3 of all owners. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get 2/3 of the owners to vote...on anything...let alone all vote in favor of a proposal? It's damn near impossible.

[wiffleball 4,797]

#1) I was told by a board member that my neighbor was instructed that she could no longer do so.

 

Did that actually happen? I can't say for sure, as

 

I don't know if a board member was delivering the message or if that task was relegated to Bill.

 

Sounds to me like you have a few things to do before calling for Bill's head:

 

1) Identify the board member that told you. Ask him/her the following:

 

2) If he/she was the board member who told your neighbor

3) If not, which board member was it?

4) If a board member relegated this to Bill, which board member told Bill to do so.

 

5) Then, write a note to Bill, copying the person ID'd in #4 asking if

5a) He was instructed to do so by this person. And:

5b) Did he do so?

 

6) And, if he did so, how did he do so? In writing or verbally?

 

 

Any community has to keep records of breaches and warnings. Otherwise, owners can simply say, "you never told me!" the first time they're sanctioned/fined. Bill should know that. And you should request to see a copy of that documentation.

 

If and when you determine that Bill is in violation of #5b, then you might have a cause of action to go after him. But why go after him until you know so? By your OWN admission, you don't know who the fock did what in this case. For all you know, the board member could've just told you that to shut your nutty axx up.

 

 

Again, work the logical path to a beneficial conclusion. Calling for Bill's head and running around with a bunch of "supposedlies, apparentlies, and I assumes" won't give you nearly as much traction as simple, obvious clear-cut questions and answers.

[Strike 5,968]

Can someone explain to me how the sound of a plastic "poop" bag differs from that of any old other plastic bag? I didn't know human hearing was so discerning.

[wiffleball 4,797]

Can someone explain to me how the sound of a plastic "poop" bag differs from that of any old other plastic bag? I didn't know human hearing was so discerning.

 

 

I've already addressed this. Apparently, she's using old empty microwave popcorn bags to store the poop in.

[jerryskids 7,047]

I hate to beat a dead horse but... then again, I don't hate it, that is why I spend time here.

 

1. Wiff's points about closing the loop on who did or did not do what is obvious, I'm sure you can see it.

 

2. You have no evidence that the dog is peeing on a mat or whatever such that rain will cause pee-soaked runoff.

 

On this second point, it seems to me from past posts that you have an old lady who has trouble taking her dog out every time it has to go, so she has come up with what might be an acceptable compromise.

[TheNewGirl 1,633]

Sounds to me like you have a few things to do before calling for Bill's head:

 

1) Identify the board member that told you. Ask him/her the following:

 

2) If he/she was the board member who told your neighbor

3) If not, which board member was it?

4) If a board member relegated this to Bill, which board member told Bill to do so.

 

5) Then, write a note to Bill, copying the person ID'd in #4 asking if

5a) He was instructed to do so by this person. And:

5b) Did he do so?

 

6) And, if he did so, how did he do so? In writing or verbally?

Any community has to keep records of breaches and warnings. Otherwise, owners can simply say, "you never told me!" the first time they're sanctioned/fined. Bill should know that. And you should request to see a copy of that documentation.

 

If and when you determine that Bill is in violation of #5b, then you might have a cause of action to go after him. But why go after him until you know so? By your OWN admission, you don't know who the fock did what in this case. For all you know, the board member could've just told you that to shut your nutty axx up.

Again, work the logical path to a beneficial conclusion. Calling for Bill's head and running around with a bunch of "supposedlies, apparentlies, and I assumes" won't give you nearly as much traction as simple, obvious clear-cut questions and answers.

 

ITA.

 

I think at this point, blaming Bill is the only way to go for davebg. Dave, you're looking to blame someone, Bill seems like the ultimate person, since he is employed by the development, etc.

 

If you ask for documentation, and they can't provide you any stating that the laws/rules were changed, then you don't really have much to stand on. It sucks, but it's true. Like wiff said, all the owner of the pet has to do is say, "No, they never told me that...." unless something is signed and noted/received, etc.

 

Again, at this point, I would be looking to move. Your development and it's owners either 1) hire sh!tty people to uphold their laws and rules, or 2) the management itself is shady and they don't give a crap about you, or the other residents complaints about pets and the carelessness involved. Either way, I woulnd't want to live there, and I certainly wouldn't want to raise a family there, JMO.

 

As you can see, in the letter that I revised, I removed everything about Bill and your assumptions...as the development doesn't givea sh!t about what you assume, your opinion, and what is or what isn't implied.

[jets24 6]

I am considering posting the following note in all of the buildings in the development. I haven't fully decided if I will or not yet and this is only a draft, but in light of some of the comments that I have received, I have tried to elimiate the cursing, fragment/run on sentences and sound less like a crazy person.

 

 

As a property manager, I would love to for a moron in my community to post something like that. I would make your life a living hell. You think dog poop is your biggest problem? Wait til the attorney contacts you. You would be up sh!ts creek.

 

Also, it is amazing to me that your last name is XXX and so is the name of the street you live on.

[jets24 6]

Here ya go - Just tightened your language a bit for you.

 

 

I hate you but that was focking hysterical!

[jets24 6]

I am not selling my home and moving b/c of this slob.

You're right, the dog didn't do anythng wrong and I do not blame the dog...I blame the owners

Yes, I was out on my patio. It's not very hard to hear that from there. We're out on a pier, so it's pretty quiet...no noise from the street.

I was LOOKING to enjoy some burgers that I grilled out on my patio.

I am not complaining about a board member. I am complaining about the non-resident, non-property owner who was hired to run the management office and supposedly enforce the rules of the development.

Actually, there are many more complainers in my development...who complain much more loudly about much more stoopid stuff than I.

 

 

unpossible.

[jets24 6]

Since Wiff and TNG are playing along, I'll play along seriously this one time. David, I told you months ago that the only way to resolve this issue is to tell Bill that you want to be put on the Agenda for the next Board meeting. You will then be given ample time to explain your position to the Board and more importantly, the Board President. Once the President gets involved, you can be sure that Bill will follow his lead. Trust me Dave, it's what I do for a living. You can hang a hundred notices up and it's not gonna make a difference. You are being "yes'd" to death by the board member and also Bill, the manager. He's not doing anything about your problem and is hoping for three things. 1. Grandma to die 2. Dog to die. 3. You to move.

 

Demand to Bill that you want to be put on the Agenda. TRUST ME! Once the Board sees what has been happening and Bill's lack of follow through, you will get the results you have want.

 

Good luck.

 

Now...stop being a dooshbag with your stupid answers.

[davebg 0]

David, I told you months ago that the only way to resolve this issue is to tell Bill that you want to be put on the Agenda for the next Board meeting.

Thanks...and I remembered and took your advice. I did just that in part of the email that I sent to Bill and a member of the board today when management responded that they would take no action.

[jets24 6]

Thanks...and I remembered and took your advice. I did just that in part of the email that I sent to Bill and a member of the board today when management responded that they would take no action.

 

Follow up with Bill tomorrow and ask him for the entire board's email addresses. Or, have him send your email to the full board. You will be amazed how helpful Bill will become.

[davebg 0]

I hate to beat a dead horse but... then again, I don't hate it, that is why I spend time here.

 

1. Wiff's points about closing the loop on who did or did not do what is obvious, I'm sure you can see it.

 

2. You have no evidence that the dog is peeing on a mat or whatever such that rain will cause pee-soaked runoff.

 

On this second point, it seems to me from past posts that you have an old lady who has trouble taking her dog out every time it has to go, so she has come up with what might be an acceptable compromise.

1. Yes, I see that.

 

2. I assume they would have noticed a p|ss stained mat when they went up there in the cherry picker to see what was going on the last time I and another neighbor complained.

 

She's not that old. She's likely in her 50's. She works. She gets around just fine. She also has her daughter living w/her who is in her 30's.

[davebg 0]

Follow up with Bill tomorrow and ask him for the entire board's email addresses. Or, have him send your email to the full board. You will be amazed how helpful Bill will become.

Mrs. DaveBG isn't working until the afternoon tomorrow. I am having her go to the office in the morning and request copies of the bylaws as they pertain to our monthly management fees. I want to investigate to see what options I have (if any) for witholding my monthly fees in an escrow account and dispute resolution.

 

I would assume that might get his attention as well.

[jets24 6]

Mrs. DaveBG isn't working until the afternoon tomorrow. I am having her go to the office in the morning and request copies of the bylaws as they pertain to our monthly management fees. I want to investigate to see what options I have (if any) for witholding my monthly fees in an escrow account and dispute resolution.

 

I would assume that might get his attention as well.

 

 

DO NOT DO WITHHOLD YOUR MONTHLY DUES! You will only fock things up further. Believe me Dave, this will not help the situation. The Board and Bill could give two sh!ts about your dues. However, once this thing gets into the hands of their attorney and unless you plan on spending lots of money on your own attorney, you are screwed. Also, they may charge you for a copy of the Bylaws, so have her bring a check. You should have been given a copy at closing and if you didn't, then you may have to pay now.

[Franknbeans 46]

there's nothing quite like the smell of dog feces during supper

[Strike 5,968]

DO NOT DO WITHHOLD YOUR MONTHLY DUES! You will only fock things up further. Believe me Dave, this will not help the situation. The Board and Bill could give two sh!ts about your dues. However, once this thing gets into the hands of their attorney and unless you plan on spending lots of money on your own attorney, you are screwed. Also, they may charge you for a copy of the Bylaws, so have her bring a check. You should have been given a copy at closing and if you didn't, then you may have to pay now.

 

$450/month in dues and he can't $1 worth of copying done for free. LOL. My bylaws are available via PDF from our website, and I only pay $65/mo in dues. Ironic, ain't it?

[wiffleball 4,797]

Actually, I'm still trying to figure out what kind of aerodynamic wonders this dog poops out that somehow manage to miss the patio RIGHT BELOW him, but somehow makes it to Dave's patio two stories below.

[jerryskids 7,047]

Actually, I'm still trying to figure out what kind of aerodynamic wonders this dog poops out that somehow manage to miss the patio RIGHT BELOW him, but somehow makes it to Dave's patio two stories below.

It's that funky Dice-K pitch we heard so much about. It's a Japanese dog.

[wiffleball 4,797]

It's that funky Dice-K pitch we heard so much about. It's a Japanese dog.

 

"That's one heck of a curveball your dog's pitchin there ma'am!"

[davebg 0]

Actually, I'm still trying to figure out what kind of aerodynamic wonders this dog poops out that somehow manage to miss the patio RIGHT BELOW him, but somehow makes it to Dave's patio two stories below.

Everyone has a blacony that is the same size, except for us. We are on the "ground" floor, so we have a wood deck that is the exact same dimensions as the balconies. In addition, we have a large stone patio that extends out from the deck, which triples the outdoor space that we have compared to everyone above us.

[Strike 5,968]

Everyone has a blacony that is the same size, except for us. We are on the "ground" floor, so we have a wood deck that is the exact same dimensions as the balconies. In addition, we have a large stone patio that extends out from the deck, which triples the outdoor space that we have compared to everyone above us.

 

So if you eat on the wood deck you're safe? What's the problem?

[davebg 0]

So if you eat on the wood deck you're safe? What's the problem?

Because the large glass patio table, chairs and umbrella don't fit on the deck. You see, when I was in the market for patio furniture I figured that I would be able to use all of my outdoor space...sh|t free.

[hoytdwow 202]

Have the other tenants voted you out of the complex yet?

[hellothere 1]

you should set up base camp at the "designated pooping areas" or in a nearby park or grass strip with your baggie and gloves at the ready. you could even go in camo, set up a little blind, the whole nine yards. as soon as you see a dog squirt out a little turdie of appropriate size, run over and begin testing. if size, consistency, flavor, are all spot on, grab it and run for home. set up the planted evidence on your patio and complete the crime scene. call in bill and the trust fund on your specially rigged bat-phone and have them inspect the evidence. you could even put a little themometer in it to show its still warm if you really want to sprinkle some pizazz on the whole situation.

 

happy hunting.

[wiffleball 4,797]

Everyone has a blacony that is the same size, except for us. We are on the "ground" floor, so we have a wood deck that is the exact same dimensions as the balconies. In addition, we have a large stone patio that extends out from the deck, which triples the outdoor space that we have compared to everyone above us.

 

So yer thinkin that little dog has been somehow specially trained to hang his hiney off the balcony - risking life and limb - just to do his bidness?

[kutulu 1,701]

Is there any chance of you posting a link to a picture of the dog poop? TIA.

[DAVID RUFFIN 2]

Do you ever have a good day? I have a feeling that this isn't the only issue that keeps you in a constant state of turmoil. Have you ever considered anger management? You are wasting your life away. How many hours have you devoted to this petty crusade. Think about the people that would gladly trade your asinine problems for theirs. You are so pathetic it's laughable.

[davebg 0]

I decided not to post that letter, as I wanted to give the board time to act. I received this email last night from the board member who was copied on all of the emails that I sent to management.

I want you to be assured that I have received the emails. I have circulated

them to the remaining board & I am pressuring them for some type of decision

regarding your individual complaint as well as the Management or

MIS-management office in general.

 

Please let me know. I am trying to get some type of cleaning done in the

XXX Court area in the meantime, while it is decided about the proper

course of action to actually stop the occurrences of the situation.

[Mephisto 15]

Won't DaveBG be surprised when he finds out that the sound was not a "poop-bag" used for post-defecation manual pick-up, but the doggy-diapers that the dog now wears due to his incessant complaining. I can see where he would mistake the scrunching of a doggy-diaper with the sound of the mysterious and elusive "poop-bag."

 

Or buy her a box and have them delivered.

[Blitzen 1]

Although I don't necessarily agree with everything davebg says, one major health issue with letting a dog crap on a top floor are coliform bacteria. Unless the dog owner is using bleach to clean the crap, when rain falls on that balcony, E. coli are going to be raining down below and that has to go against some sort of health regulations. If it doesn't, then you should move to an area where it does because I wouldn't trust any of the restaurants there.

 

davebg should've poisoned the dog and its owner when I told him to.

 

Oh and the manager's name, Bill XXX, should've been a dead giveaway as to his talent.

[jets24 6]

I decided not to post that letter, as I wanted to give the board time to act. I received this email last night from the board member who was copied on all of the emails that I sent to management.

 

 

You're welcome.

[wiffleball 4,797]

I decided not to post that letter, as I wanted to give the board time to act. I received this email last night from the board member who was copied on all of the emails that I sent to management.

 

 

Good boy.