Is Obama's candidacy constitutional?

[Korben Dallas 0]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: you're reluctance to accept this reality is why your side will lose. But hey, you'll have another 4 years of biotching with your holier than thou attitude, so you've go that going for you.

 

What "reality" is that. That a large amount of the American people are for some reason suckered by this drivel. I refuse to accept that, I agree.

 

And the only thing left now is if both houses of congress will be buster-proof for the Dem's. We've got 3 times the money and a candidate that, while I'll never convince the trolls here to stop and pay attention, is at least interesting and exciting. While McCain has alienated everyone he's touched. I'm ready to bet on that anytime. I'll take Obama against McCain in the general election straight up anytime against anyone.

[I have no idea what i'm doing 0]

What "reality" is that. That a large amount of the American people are for some reason suckered by this drivel. I refuse to accept that, I agree.

 

And the only thing left now is if both houses of congress will be buster-proof for the Dem's. We've got 3 times the money and a candidate that, while I'll never convince the trolls here to stop and pay attention, is at least interesting and exciting. While McCain has alienated everyone he's touched. I'm ready to bet on that anytime. I'll take Obama against McCain in the general election straight up anytime against anyone.

Wait, how has McCain alienated everyone he has ever touched? He has a proven record of bipartisan bill crafting. The kind of record that Obama wishes he had, to back up his message of being a uniter.

 

I'll admit Obama is more 'exciting', for multiple reasons. That doesn't mean he's fit to lead the country, and it actually contradicts your whole point of hoping people aren't suckers for drivel. Just exhange flash for drivel and that's your whole argument for Obama over McCain.

[Me_2006 14]

What "reality" is that. That a large amount of the American people are for some reason suckered by this drivel. I refuse to accept that, I agree.

 

And the only thing left now is if both houses of congress will be buster-proof for the Dem's. We've got 3 times the money and a candidate that, while I'll never convince the trolls here to stop and pay attention, is at least interesting and exciting. While McCain has alienated everyone he's touched. I'm ready to bet on that anytime. I'll take Obama against McCain in the general election straight up anytime against anyone.

Is that really the argument you want to go with FOR Obama? "My guy is only slightly less divisive than Hillary Clinton." Not the catchiest slogan bro.

[footballpowers 0]

What the fock is up with the kpbuckeye/footballpowers crap? Any thread either of you post in immediately becomes your own personal sissy-fight. Damnit you guys are annoying.

 

kpbuckeye- the quote manip is weak. We're of roughly the same political persuasion, but you're doing us no favors with the name-calling, even if they DO follow you around or whatever.

footballpowers- you didn't own him because you asked for a picture and he has better things to do than prove he hasn't gained 200 lbs in 3 years.

both of you- please go away, although I get a feeling you'll stalk me now.

so what's the general consensus on this? I don't see any chance anything ever comes of it. Surely he hasn't gotten this far without it catching him, and at this point he's got the power and people to just produce some fake documents or something.

Come on, that’s not a fair assessment! Kpb does his little douche bag routine w/ just about every poster here. The reason I fock w/ him and gocolts is, as I’ve said before, because they are primary examples of why this bored has gone downhill. What was once educated, political discussions have become 3rd grade name calling and cut and paste extreme BS. All I try and do is call those two douche bags out and expose them for what they are.

If you look you won’t find another poster I go at it w/ other than these 2 yet they have MANY posters who go at it w/ them. Proof is in the pudding…..

1. Do a search on all Kpbuckeyes threads, no more needs to be said

2. As for gocolts, here is all you need…. http://www.fftodayforums.com/forum/index.p...howtopic=313548

[Thornton Melon 622]

Sorry, the thought that some people think there is even a remote amount of possibility that this is even possible as a minute chance kind of calls you out as a fool. You think that wouldn't have been investigated by the DNC, or the CLINTON campaign. You don't think Hillary would have pulled that out last month when she would have then waltzed to the nomination.

 

This helps me understand all about our country that there are people dumb enough to buy anything that Rove and the right wing brigade trots out.

 

Exhibit A on people getting all pissy about it....

 

And yeah, I would think the DNC, and even more so, the Clinton campaign would investigate it. I also don't know why Obama isn't showing his birth certificate. I also don't know why it isn't a requirement that all candidates prove they meet the Constitutional eligibility requirements to be President, to avoid any problems. The "right wing brigade" wouldn't even have been able to bring it up if such a requirement existed.

 

We've got 3 times the money and a candidate that, while I'll never convince the trolls here to stop and pay attention, is at least interesting and exciting.

 

Jimmy Carter was interesting and exciting too.....

 

While McCain has alienated everyone he's touched.

 

Let's see.... McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform, McCain-Kennedy illegal alien amnesty, offering to be VP for Democrat Joe Lieberman. Some alienation there...

 

 

Wait, you're right - he's alienated his own party. Touche....

[Korben Dallas 0]

Wait, how has McCain alienated everyone he has ever touched? He has a proven record of bipartisan bill crafting. The kind of record that Obama wishes he had, to back up his message of being a uniter.

 

I'll admit Obama is more 'exciting', for multiple reasons. That doesn't mean he's fit to lead the country, and it actually contradicts your whole point of hoping people aren't suckers for drivel. Just exhange flash for drivel and that's your whole argument for Obama over McCain.

 

I think you are mistaken my friend. That is the image he's pretending to have, but couldn't be farther from the truth. He used all that imaginary capital to sell out the Dem party during Bush's first 6 years. My guess is McCain is one of the most hated politicians in the country, next to the cabal of course, by liberals and democrats. Certainly those in the house. I'm sure Obama would like the free pass McCain gets by the media on that. He's not a maverick, he's a short GWB with military experience. I laugh every time I hear a rightwinger call him a RINO, because he's a perfect example of a republican.

 

He's voted Bush party line 100% last year and 95+% the year before. 8 YEARS ago, people thought he was bipartisan, but he sold himself out long ago.

 

I think you are missing my drivel point. I readily admit that Obama lacks whatever experience you think he needs. I find that to be a plus. I am absolutely sick of the current executive branch and want all of them out. McCain said yeesterday that he wants D1ck Cheney on his staff...if you think Obama doesn't get it, try McCain. D1ck Cheney?!?!

[jerryskids 6,816]

I think you are missing my drivel point. I readily admit that Obama lacks whatever experience you think he needs. I find that to be a plus. I am absolutely sick of the current executive branch and want all of them out. McCain said yeesterday that he wants D1ck Cheney on his staff...if you think Obama doesn't get it, try McCain. D1ck Cheney?!?!

Korben, you are being torrid-esque in this thread. The purpose of which is the constitutionality of Obama's candidacy, and why he doesn't just pony up his birth certificate.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Korben, you are being torrid-esque in this thread. The purpose of which is the constitutionality of Obama's candidacy, and why he doesn't just pony up his birth certificate.

 

I agree that he could pony up the birth certificate to nip this in the bud, but wouldn't that information be available anywhere via FOI?

 

Also, just because he has a valid birth certificate, it would not make him qualified under the Constitution. I think that is the issue with McCain's situation.

 

Right?

[Voice_Of_Reason 0]

Here's what I learned from this thread.....

 

 

1. Obama hasn't learned that nipping things in the bud quickly is far better than letting anything drag out.

2. Korben Dallas, FootballPowers, Igotworms, David Ruffin, Rattlesnake are Democrats that hate Republicans and will defend Obama to the end. They are liberal to the death.

3. GoColts, Kpbuckeye are Republicans and will denouce Obama at every turn. They are conservative to the death.

4. BabyCakes is new to FFToday and isn't likely to let grammar go. He also appreciates not being called dumb.

5. JerryKids, Me_2006, I have no idea what I am doing, and PatriotsFatBoy are reasonable posters who see both sides of the coin.

6. This type of thread isn't likely to go away anytime soon.

7. Nothing has changed my mind, I still think Obama is grossly overrated and not qualified to run the country and McCain is a lifetime politcian which is a four letter word to me.

8. Arguing on a message board is still as pointless as eating plastic.

[pimptastic69 0]

I agree that he could pony up the birth certificate to nip this in the bud, but wouldn't that information be available anywhere via FOI?

 

Also, just because he has a valid birth certificate, it would not make him qualified under the Constitution. I think that is the issue with McCain's situation.

 

Right?

 

Hawaii doesn't release birth certificates to anyone. So, it's up to Obama to produce it.

 

The difference between McCain's and Obama's situations, is that McCain has already covered his a$$.

From wiki:

If he wins the presidency, John McCain’s birth (in Panama) would be the first presidential birth outside the current 50 states. A bipartisan legal review as well as a unanimous Senate resolution indicate that he is nevertheless a natural-born citizen of the United States, a constitutional requirement to become president.

 

As for Obama - this information has to be erroneous, because I can't believe that someone would be so dumb to run for Pres. without knowing for sure he meets the qualifications.

[gocolts 300]

Is this how McCain qualifies?

 

:Hesolderthanthefuckingconstituion"

 

Sorry, the thought that some people think there is even a remote amount of possibility that this is even possible as a minute chance kind of calls you out as a fool. You think that wouldn't have been investigated by the DNC, or the CLINTON campaign. You don't think Hillary would have pulled that out last month when she would have then waltzed to the nomination.

 

This helps me understand all about our country that there are people dumb enough to buy anything that Rove and the right wing brigade trots out.

After all the stuff that has came out about Obama in the last 2 years, it is almost as if the Democrats did not look into his back round whatsoever. Just look at bad the BO supporters(On TV) stumbled each time something new came out.

[Korben Dallas 0]

Korben, you are being torrid-esque in this thread. The purpose of which is the constitutionality of Obama's candidacy, and why he doesn't just pony up his birth certificate.

 

 

Uh Oh...

 

Obama's Birth Certificate

 

Also, the campaign said that no one had actually asked for it.

 

Now either stfu or apologize.

[gocolts 300]

He's not a maverick, he's a short GWB with military experience. I laugh every time I hear a rightwinger call him a RINO, because he's a perfect example of a republican.

 

He's voted Bush party line 100% last year and 95+% the year before. 8 YEARS ago, people thought he was bipartisan, but he sold himself out long ago.

This just demonstrates that you have no idea whatsoever about conservatives and republicans. McCain, like Bush, are far from conservative and are most certainly not "A perfect example of a republican." Their many liberal stances are why so many republicans ans conservatives don't like them. You may be right about one thing though. McCain did vote with GWB a lot because they both have let down conservatives and republicans in a big way. They are far to liberal for most republicans and conservatives. The fact that you think these two are a perfect example of a republican is focking laughable.

[Korben Dallas 0]

Exhibit A on people getting all pissy about it....

 

And yeah, I would think the DNC, and even more so, the Clinton campaign would investigate it. I also don't know why Obama isn't showing his birth certificate. I also don't know why it isn't a requirement that all candidates prove they meet the Constitutional eligibility requirements to be President, to avoid any problems. The "right wing brigade" wouldn't even have been able to bring it up if such a requirement existed.

Jimmy Carter was interesting and exciting too.....

Let's see.... McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform, McCain-Kennedy illegal alien amnesty, offering to be VP for Democrat Joe Lieberman. Some alienation there...

Wait, you're right - he's alienated his own party. Touche....

 

Carter wasn't interesting and exciting, he wasn't Nixon. Which was enough in 76.

 

Let's see campaign finance reform - which he cheated on this year, gambling that they wouldn't rule until after November.

 

McCain-Kennedy illegal alien amnesty - I'm sorry, did this pass? Hasn't he completely 180'd on this

 

Joe Lieberman is not a Democrat, he WAS a Democrat, then he was thrown out in his own primary. He is a Uncommited Republican.

[footballpowers 0]

Uh Oh...

 

Obama's Birth Certificate

 

Also, the campaign said that no one had actually asked for it.

 

Now either stfu or apologize.

 

 

[Korben Dallas 0]

This just demonstrates that you have no idea whatsoever about conservatives and republicans. McCain, like Bush, are far from conservative and are most certainly not "A perfect example of a republican." Their many liberal stances are why so many republicans ans conservatives don't like them. You may be right about one thing though. McCain did vote with GWB a lot because they both have let down conservatives and republicans in a big way. They are far to liberal for most republicans and conservatives. The fact that you think these two are a perfect example of a republican is focking laughable.

 

Actually, they ARE the embodiment of Conservativism and the GOP. Without a check of the Dem party, this is what your belief structure looks like in policy action. Sorry your belief structure is a resounding failure.

 

GWB positions on nearly every imaginable topic are the anti-thesis of the belief structure of liberalism.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Here's what I learned from this thread.....

5. JerryKids, Me_2006, I have no idea what I am doing, and PatriotsFatBoy are reasonable posters who see both sides of the coin.

 

I call BS.

[pimptastic69 0]

Uh Oh...

 

Obama's Birth Certificate

 

Also, the campaign said that no one had actually asked for it.

 

Now either stfu or apologize.

 

Who is this "kos" guy and why would he just happen to have an original copy of Obama's birth certificate laying around?

 

In any case, here is Obama's birth certificate. Click on it for a bigger version. Note, I have trimmed the edges of the scan, so before someone tries to inevitably "debunk" this based on the dimensions of a Hawaiian birth certificate, that should be noted.

[Korben Dallas 0]

Who is this "kos" guy and why would he just happen to have an original copy of Obama's birth certificate laying around?

 

 

Are you kidding about kos? He's the owner of the most powerful and largest blog on the internet.

 

And is the founder of the netroots movement, along with Atrios and a few others that have changed election politics.

 

Kos, while virulently liberal, would NEVER post it unless he had the goods.

[Voice_Of_Reason 0]

I call BS.

Well at least in this thread....

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Kos, while virulently liberal, would NEVER post it unless he had the goods.

 

 

Like when they said Rove had informed the White House his indictment was "imminent".

 

[I have no idea what i'm doing 0]

Here's what I learned from this thread.....

1. Obama hasn't learned that nipping things in the bud quickly is far better than letting anything drag out. .

5. JerryKids, Me_2006, I have no idea what I am doing, and PatriotsFatBoy are reasonable posters who see both sides of the coin.

7. Nothing has changed my mind, I still think Obama is grossly overrated and not qualified to run the country and McCain is a lifetime politcian which is a four letter word to me.

8. Arguing on a message board is still as pointless as eating plastic.

First, thanks for the complement. As for your first point, there's an interesting article in TIME online on Obama's new strategy for dealing with these rumors.

 

Lastly, I'm in full agreement with 7&8.

[pimptastic69 0]

Are you kidding about kos? He's the owner of the most powerful and largest blog on the internet.

 

And is the founder of the netroots movement, along with Atrios and a few others that have changed election politics.

 

Kos, while virulently liberal, would NEVER post it unless he had the goods.

 

So this blogger guy was able to outmuscle ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, USAToday, CNn, and so on to get on original copy of Obama's birth certificate.

[jerryskids 6,816]

Uh Oh...

 

Obama's Birth Certificate

 

Also, the campaign said that no one had actually asked for it.

 

Now either stfu or apologize.

Apologize for what? I never said that he didn't have one. I merely questioned why he wasn't producing it.

 

Personally I hope the one you posted is legit; I'd hate to see either side lose the choice of their voters based on a technicality.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

These stupid rumors are nothing more than hit pieces, and it would debase Obama's campaign to respond to each and every little slander that right-wing internet trolls can come up with. That said, if something potentially significant comes along, like the Swift Boat Veterans bullsh!t, then hopefully the Obama campaign WILL step up and nip that in the bud.

 

 

ETA: Like I said before, the whole idea behind this and similar lines of attack is to remind voters that Obama is not one of "us," i.e., not white. Another purpose these kinds of attacks serve is to put Obama in a constant defensive posture. His campaign would be stupid to walk into these traps by actually dignifying these sorts of attacks with a response.

[I have no idea what i'm doing 0]

These stupid rumors are nothing more than hit pieces, and it would debase Obama's campaign to respond to each and every little slander that right-wing internet trolls can come up with. That said, if something potentially significant comes along, like the Swift Boat Veterans bullsh!t, then hopefully the Obama campaign WILL step up and nip that in the bud.

Obama's Anti-Rumor Plan

 

Kind of a fluff piece, but it does show he is changing the way he handles these things.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Obama's Anti-Rumor Plan

 

Kind of a fluff piece, but it does show he is changing the way he handles these things.

 

Interesting strategy. Like I said, responding to these rumors seems to actually lend them an air of credibility that they might not have if they were just ignored. However, I guess that in a way it is good to try to nip ALL of them in the bud so that one of them doesn't manage to grow into a much bigger "controversy." So I think the strategy can be risky, but at any rate, it is good to see a Democrat be proactive in campaigning for a change. The Swiftboat Veterans cost Kerry the campaign in 2004, and if he had come out very strongly against them as soon as he learned of their plan to run those BS ads, he would probably be President today. (I'm not saying that would be a great thing. I was no fan of his. But he certainly could not have been worse than Bush's second term.)

[itsjjw 0]

Uh Oh...

 

Obama's Birth Certificate

 

Also, the campaign said that no one had actually asked for it.

 

Now either stfu or apologize.

Umm, that birth certificate does nothing to answer the question about the age of Obama's mother at the time of his birth. Isn't that the central question as to his candidacy being constitutional?

[IGotWorms 4,058]

If a future Presidential candidate came out of itsjjw's filty, disease-ridden womb, would that baby be considered a "natural born American citizen" or just more of an abomination of nature in general?

[itsjjw 0]

If a future Presidential candidate came out of itsjjw's filty, disease-ridden womb, would that baby be considered a "natural born American citizen" or just more of an abomination of nature in general?

Do you really think it would be more degenerate than the people who already inhabit this board?

 

 

Nice way to deflect from the real question.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Do you really think it would be more degenerate than the people who already inhabit this board?

Nice way to deflect from the real question.

 

We may be degenerates, but at least (most of us) aren't crack babies with HIV!

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Umm, that birth certificate does nothing to answer the question about the age of Obama's mother at the time of his birth. Isn't that the central question as to his candidacy being constitutional?

Well, it does. Considering that the first part of the article indicates that there was a concern that Obama was born in Kenya, which would disqualify him.

 

The 2nd part of the argument is based upon what a blogger tells us a website says the law at the time indicates the qualifications of being "natural born". From the McCain article in the NY Times (which seems to have more facts than the blogger), it appears that the phrase has not been adequately defined or challenged in court. As such, any determination is speculation at best as to what the law is currently.

 

Like I said when the McCain article came out, I think that they should define it, challenge it and move on.

[itsjjw 0]

Well, it does. Considering that the first part of the article indicates that there was a concern that Obama was born in Kenya, which would disqualify him.

 

The 2nd part of the argument is based upon what a blogger tells us a website says the law at the time indicates the qualifications of being "natural born". From the McCain article in the NY Times (which seems to have more facts than the blogger), it appears that the phrase has not been adequately defined or challenged in court. As such, any determination is speculation at best as to what the law is currently.

 

Like I said when the McCain article came out, I think that they should define it, challenge it and move on.

I thought the second part was based on

 

"If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least 10 years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16."

 

and that she was only 18 not 21?

[itsjjw 0]

We may be degenerates, but at least (most of us) aren't crack babies with HIV!

Is that how you always handle an embarrassing situation (for your candidate)? by lashing out and attacking? tsk tsk.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I thought the second part was based on

and that she was only 18 not 21?

Not really. If you read the article, the blogger says that Findlaw.com indicates that is the law. However, if you don't take his word for it (I don't) and you actually go to FindLaw.com, you will see that they say:

Clause 5. Qualifications

 

All Presidents since and including Martin Van Buren were born in the United States subsequent to the Declaration of Inde pendence. The only issue with regard to the qualifications set out in this clause, which appears to be susceptible of argument, is whether a child born abroad of American parents is ''a natural born citizen'' in the sense of the clause. Such a child is a citizen as a consequence of statute. 94 Whatever the term ''natural born'' means, it no doubt does not include a person who is ''naturalized.'' Thus, the answer to the question might be seen to turn on the interpretation of the first sentence of the first section of the Fourteenth Amendment, providing that ''[a]ll persons born or naturalized in the United States'' are citizens. 95 Significantly, however, Congress, in which a number of Framers sat, provided in the Naturalization act of 1790 that ''the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond the sea, . . . shall be considered as natural born citizens. . . .'' 96 This phrasing followed the literal terms of British statutes, beginning in 1350, under which persons born abroad, whose parents were both British subjects, would enjoy the same rights of inheritance as those born in England; beginning with laws in 1709 and 1731, these statutes expressly provided that such persons were natural-born subjects of the crown. 97 There is reason to believe, therefore, that the phrase includes persons who become citizens at birth by statute because of their status in being born abroad of American citizens. 98 Whether the Supreme Court would decide the issue should it ever arise in a ''case or controversy'' as well as how it might decide it can only be speculated about.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constit...cle02/03.html#1

[Recliner Pilot 61]

The article is a little vague, but I'm gonna have to agree with the Fatboy from cheaterland. If he was born in Hawaii it would seem he is American.

 

However, if the article is correct that the elder Hussein fella was still married when he got hitched to the younger Hussein fella's mom that would make the younger Hussein fella a bastage.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Is that how you always handle an embarrassing situation (for your candidate)? by lashing out and attacking? tsk tsk.

 

Is it an "embarassing situation" for you when you have to explain why your love canal is wider than the Chunnel?

[itsjjw 0]

Is it an "embarassing situation" for you when you have to explain why your love canal is wider than the Chunnel?

Tsk tsk, aren't you embarrassed that you are unable to defend your candidate without attacking someone? Isn't this childish deflection merely you admitting that the question is correct? and that your candidate is not eligible to run for president?

 

In which case my candidate gets to run in his place.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Tsk tsk, aren't you embarrassed that you are unable to defend your candidate without attacking someone? Isn't this childish deflection merely you admitting that the question is correct? and that your candidate is not eligible to run for president?

 

In which case my candidate gets to run in his place.

 

And here I would've thought you would like black guys. It seems like they would be the only ones that could possibly fill up that canyon you've got between your legs!

[itsjjw 0]

And here I would've thought you would like black guys. It seems like they would be the only ones that could possibly fill up that canyon you've got between your legs!

I enjoy sleeping with black guys. No problems with that. No problems voting for one I like either, like Condi.

 

I just think this one isn't qualified enough, and only speaks in broad terms, without any real substance. And that I do not trust.

 

Of course I also like them to be constitutionally able to do the job.