Convince me

[ERZER 0]

Seriously folks, just give me good hard evidence why my undecided mind should vote for the candidate you support versus writing in say Glenn Beck and Juan Williams.

 

Please, don't insult yourself by saying BO is about change or that JM was a war hero or even that Bush suxs and BO will change it or JM will just be the same. If you are as passionate about your selection as you think you are, you should be able to provide some really good details.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

If your life's ambition it to live off Gubmint handouts, Vote for The Clown.

 

 

If you plan on being a contributing member of society and want to keep some of YOUR money you work your a$$ off for, vote for McCain.

[Brad GLuckman 518]

To me...

 

The left believes in wealth re-distribution. They believe that if the rich have so much, then they should give more to those with less who struggle through life. They believe the community as a whole should pitch in and support those that do not support themselves. The money gained by the government through these tax increases should be used for social programs to improve welfare of the overall society.

 

Those on the right believe in a smaller government, and letting people take care of themselves. Even though those rich people have more than they will ever need, it is money they earned and they deserve to keep what they work for. They believe that with corporate tax breaks, businesses will expand, improving job growth, allowing people to support themselves without the need for the government to do it for them.

 

I think both sides have good intentions. I lean to the right and will vote for McCain.

[MTSkiBum 1,601]

I dont like either candidate.

 

However, McCain is more likely to drill the hell out of Alaska, which i am for.

McCain is also less likely to put environmental restrictions on mining(I work at a Bentonite mine)

McCain is more likely to push through an offshore oil drilling bill.

I do enjoy guns, and I like that Palin was an NRA member her whole life.

 

 

McCain is not as fiscally conservative as I like, in fact he is pretty fiscally liberal(Most republicans are now days )

I dont like how pro life Palin is. However McCain seems indifferent on the issue.

I dont like the fact that McCain is changing his views, i understand why he is doing it, but i liked the old McCain better.

I dont like the fact that he supports the bailouts. He had nothing to do with them, but I want a president that is going to let a company go under when they deserve it.

 

 

 

 

I am voting for McCain, but it has more to do with my field, than anything else.

[ERZER 0]

If your life's ambition it to live off Gubmint handouts, Vote for The Clown.

If you plan on being a contributing member of society and want to keep some of YOUR money you work your a$$ off for, vote for McCain.

 

 

Come on RP, I really expected more than just rhetoric. You have been one of the most outspoken people on this board about the political situation.

 

BTW good start Brad

[Guest BernardPollardFan]

They believe that with corporate tax breaks, businesses will expand, improving job growth, allowing people to support themselves without the need for the government to do it for them.

So they believe in fairy tales?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Come on RP, I really expected more than just rhetoric. You have been one of the most outspoken people on this board about the political situation.

 

BTW good start Brad

 

WTF!

 

I just gave the cliff note's version of Brad's post.

 

Most of the idiots here have the attention span of a worm with ADD.

[Brad GLuckman 518]

So they believe in fairy tales?

 

No I don't believe so. I think when taxes are cut for businesses, job growth is the result. Currently the United States has the second highest in the world, Japan is #1.

 

Ireland is a good story of what cutting the corporate tax rate can do, currently theirs is 12.5%, ours is higher than 35%.

 

As federal lawmakers debate the merits of long-range tax reform, including the lowering of U.S. corporate tax rates in order to spur economic growth, some reform proponents point to Ireland as an example of what such a change in policy could do in the United States.

 

Ireland, which has one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the industrialized world, is unlikely to change its policies anytime soon, said Paul Reck, tax partner, of Deloitte Ireland, LLP, on January 31, 2008. Reck believes that Ireland's 12.5 percent corporate tax rate will remain on the books for the near future because of its beneficial economic effects. The development is likely to encourage proponents of lowering the U.S. corporate tax rate, which is three times higher, ranging from 35 to 39 percent.

 

Ireland adopted its 12.5 percent corporate tax rate on January 1, 2003. "When Ireland introduced its rate, the government looked at making it effective for 25 years," Reck said. However, this would likely have generated some controversy with Ireland's relationship with its European Union member countries. Reck spoke during a webcast hosted by Deloitte Touche, LLP.

 

Combined with lower levels of government spending, the tax changes have jump-started an economic miracle in Ireland: once one of the poorer countries in Western Europe, it now boasts the highest per capita GDP on the continent. Moreover, the influx of young educated professionals looking to take part in the Irish resurgence has also made the country's population one of the youngest in the Western world.

 

Reck said there are no proposals in Ireland now to change the 12.5 percent rate. "At a political level, there is a consensus that it will remain unchanged for the near future."

 

Reck explained that Ireland's 12.5 percent corporate tax rate has benefited a variety of taxpayers and has led to high job growth. Manufacturing, especially in the pharmaceutical sector, has been attracted to Ireland because of its lower corporate tax rate.

 

Link

 

Cutting Spending. Lower Corporate Tax. I only hope McCain would abide by these conservative principles.

[ERZER 0]

So they believe in fairy tales?

 

So why is it a fairy tale.

[MTSkiBum 1,601]

Combined with lower levels of government spending, the tax changes have jump-started an economic miracle in Ireland: once one of the poorer countries in Western Europe, it now boasts the highest per capita GDP on the continent.

 

This is pretty much the reason we dont need obama in the white house, we need less government spending, especially after Bush spent all that money.

[Guest BernardPollardFan]

No I don't believe so. I think when taxes are cut for businesses, job growth is the result. Currently the United States has the second highest in the world, Japan is #1.

 

Ireland is a good story of what cutting the corporate tax rate can do, currently theirs is 12.5%, ours is higher than 35%.

Link

 

Cutting Spending. Lower Corporate Tax. I only hope McCain would abide by these conservative principles.

I'll just go ahead and read the underlined. Per capita income....nope, nothing about new jobs or people being able to support themselves.

[Guest BernardPollardFan]

This is pretty much the reason we dont need obama in the white house, we need less government spending, especially after Bush spent all that money.

What do you think Bush spent all that money on? THE WAR.

 

What is McCain going to do in office? PROLONG THE WAR.

 

 

 

 

But right, we don't need obama, he's gonna spend a lot of money... :overhead: :rolleyes:

[listen2me 23 1,556]

What does the war cost per day? I know it was some crazy number, I forgot though...

 

anyone?

[gocolts 300]

Since I loathe both, it's coming down to SCOTUS appointments and the guy who I don't think actually puts our country at risk. I thought we had some terrible choices the last couple of times, little did I know each party could outdo themselves.

[Guest BernardPollardFan]

Since I loathe both, it's coming down to SCOTUS appointments and the guy who I don't think actually puts our country at risk. I thought we had some terrible choices the last couple of times, little did I know each party could outdo themselves.

How is Obama going to put our country at risk? The only recent attack on the US in recent history came under Republican watch, lest you forget.

[buffalobillsffl2003 0]

What is Obongo going to do?

 

[GettnHuge 1]

[Brad GLuckman 518]

I'll just go ahead and read the underlined. Per capita income....nope, nothing about new jobs or people being able to support themselves.

 

Reck explained that Ireland's 12.5 percent corporate tax rate has benefited a variety of taxpayers and has led to high job growth

 

Same Link as Before

[ERZER 0]

 

This really sums up my feelings about both "camps" a lot of rhetoric and argumentative statements but nothing of much substance. There have been a few good posts in this thread, but for the most part nothing but zingers or what I would call "nice hair" comebacks.

[GettnHuge 1]

This really sums up my feelings about both "camps" a lot of rhetoric and argumentative statements but nothing of much substance. There have been a few good posts in this thread, but for the most part nothing but zingers or what I would call "nice hair" comebacks.

 

When the poo hits the fan and I'm faced with two candidates I don't like I typically just go with who will reduce all taxes the most

cause that affects my family and I and friends more than anything else.

 

[phillybear 365]

Voting for Obama is the leading cause of S.I.D.S.

 

Vote Libertarian.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I am voting for Obama for the following reasons.

 

I believe the Republicans have allowed corporations to run amok, and that this has jeopardized the safety and security of the American people. I believe that Obama is more likely to propertly regulate them than McCain is.

 

I believe the war in Iraq was a terrible mistake, and that setting up a democracy in Iraq will never work. I believe that under Obama, our troops will come home. I believe that under McCain, they won't.

 

I believe that Obama will restore our credibility as a leader on the world stage by reaching out to other countries and conducting diplomacy, even with those countries that we are not friendly with. I believe that McCain will continue our jingoistic policy of "America can do whatever the hell it wants" and probably get us involved in some other stupid war. I believe that everyone in the world hating America is a grave risk to our security, and that Obama will be more effective at correcting that. (No, I do not so much care about the world's opinion of America per se, except when they have a point.)

 

I believe that Obama will appoint SCOTUS justices that are more in line with my beliefs of keeping the government out of the private lives of its citezens. I believe that Obama's justices will be more likely to overturn the abbortion of a law that is the Patriot Act and correct other tramplings of the Constitution that George W. Bush has perpetuated.

 

While I have grave misgivings about "universal health care", I believe that something absolutely has to be done to fix our health care system. I believe that Obama will at least try, where as McCain won't.

 

I believe that the enviornment and energy independence are two of the most crucial issues we face as a nation. I believe that Obama will provide the leadership to make progress on this issue, whereas McCain will merely drill in Alaska (which I do support as a short term band-aid) which is not a long term solution to our problem.

 

That is as simple a listing of why I support Obama as I can muster.

 

Oh, and RP, ShoNuff and Co., don't bother to critique my statements, I know you disagree, and that's fine. I was just trying to honestly answer the OP's question. I'm not trying to start a p!ssing contest with the McCain camp.

[Brad GLuckman 518]

I am voting for Obama for the following reasons.

 

I believe the Republicans have allowed corporations to run amok, and that this has jeopardized the safety and security of the American people. I believe that Obama is more likely to propertly regulate them than McCain is.

 

I believe the war in Iraq was a terrible mistake, and that setting up a democracy in Iraq will never work. I believe that under Obama, our troops will come home. I believe that under McCain, they won't.

 

I believe that Obama will restore our credibility as a leader on the world stage by reaching out to other countries and conducting diplomacy, even with those countries that we are not friendly with. I believe that McCain will continue our jingoistic policy of "America can do whatever the hell it wants" and probably get us involved in some other stupid war. I believe that everyone in the world hating America is a grave risk to our security, and that Obama will be more effective at correcting that. (No, I do not so much care about the world's opinion of America per se, except when they have a point.)

 

I believe that Obama will appoint SCOTUS justices that are more in line with my beliefs of keeping the government out of the private lives of its citezens. I believe that Obama's justices will be more likely to overturn the abbortion of a law that is the Patriot Act and correct other tramplings of the Constitution that George W. Bush has perpetuated.

 

While I have grave misgivings about "universal health care", I believe that something absolutely has to be done to fix our health care system. I believe that Obama will at least try, where as McCain won't.

 

I believe that the enviornment and energy independence are two of the most crucial issues we face as a nation. I believe that Obama will provide the leadership to make progress on this issue, whereas McCain will merely drill in Alaska (which I do support as a short term band-aid) which is not a long term solution to our problem.

 

That is as simple a listing of why I support Obama as I can muster.

 

Oh, and RP, ShoNuff and Co., don't bother to critique my statements, I know you disagree, and that's fine. I was just trying to honestly answer the OP's question. I'm not trying to start a p!ssing contest with the McCain camp.

 

 

Good Post. I disagree with you on everything, but it's nice to see people lay out the reason they are voting for a candidate.

[listen2me 23 1,556]

I am voting for Obama for the following reasons.

 

I believe the Republicans have allowed corporations to run amok, and that this has jeopardized the safety and security of the American people. I believe that Obama is more likely to propertly regulate them than McCain is.

 

I believe the war in Iraq was a terrible mistake, and that setting up a democracy in Iraq will never work. I believe that under Obama, our troops will come home. I believe that under McCain, they won't.

 

I believe that Obama will restore our credibility as a leader on the world stage by reaching out to other countries and conducting diplomacy, even with those countries that we are not friendly with. I believe that McCain will continue our jingoistic policy of "America can do whatever the hell it wants" and probably get us involved in some other stupid war. I believe that everyone in the world hating America is a grave risk to our security, and that Obama will be more effective at correcting that. (No, I do not so much care about the world's opinion of America per se, except when they have a point.)

 

I believe that Obama will appoint SCOTUS justices that are more in line with my beliefs of keeping the government out of the private lives of its citezens. I believe that Obama's justices will be more likely to overturn the abbortion of a law that is the Patriot Act and correct other tramplings of the Constitution that George W. Bush has perpetuated.

 

While I have grave misgivings about "universal health care", I believe that something absolutely has to be done to fix our health care system. I believe that Obama will at least try, where as McCain won't.

 

I believe that the enviornment and energy independence are two of the most crucial issues we face as a nation. I believe that Obama will provide the leadership to make progress on this issue, whereas McCain will merely drill in Alaska (which I do support as a short term band-aid) which is not a long term solution to our problem.

 

That is as simple a listing of why I support Obama as I can muster.

 

Oh, and RP, ShoNuff and Co., don't bother to critique my statements, I know you disagree, and that's fine. I was just trying to honestly answer the OP's question. I'm not trying to start a p!ssing contest with the McCain camp.

 

Nice Post.

 

And many of the same reasons I will vote for Obama.

[Me_2006 14]

I am voting for Obama for the following reasons.

 

I believe the Republicans have allowed corporations to run amok, and that this has jeopardized the safety and security of the American people. I believe that Obama is more likely to propertly regulate them than McCain is.

 

I believe the war in Iraq was a terrible mistake, and that setting up a democracy in Iraq will never work. I believe that under Obama, our troops will come home. I believe that under McCain, they won't.

 

I believe that Obama will restore our credibility as a leader on the world stage by reaching out to other countries and conducting diplomacy, even with those countries that we are not friendly with. I believe that McCain will continue our jingoistic policy of "America can do whatever the hell it wants" and probably get us involved in some other stupid war. I believe that everyone in the world hating America is a grave risk to our security, and that Obama will be more effective at correcting that. (No, I do not so much care about the world's opinion of America per se, except when they have a point.)

 

I believe that Obama will appoint SCOTUS justices that are more in line with my beliefs of keeping the government out of the private lives of its citezens. I believe that Obama's justices will be more likely to overturn the abbortion of a law that is the Patriot Act and correct other tramplings of the Constitution that George W. Bush has perpetuated.

 

While I have grave misgivings about "universal health care", I believe that something absolutely has to be done to fix our health care system. I believe that Obama will at least try, where as McCain won't.

 

I believe that the enviornment and energy independence are two of the most crucial issues we face as a nation. I believe that Obama will provide the leadership to make progress on this issue, whereas McCain will merely drill in Alaska (which I do support as a short term band-aid) which is not a long term solution to our problem.

 

That is as simple a listing of why I support Obama as I can muster.

 

Oh, and RP, ShoNuff and Co., don't bother to critique my statements, I know you disagree, and that's fine. I was just trying to honestly answer the OP's question. I'm not trying to start a p!ssing contest with the McCain camp.

Well done. Though I disagree with you on basically all points, at least you're an informed supporter of the other side are realize the basic flaws of government run programs. I can respect that.

[TD Ryan2 315]

The Military and The Economy.

These are the 2 important issues to me, and in that order.

 

All I'm looking for out of my government is to:

1. Keep us safe and strong against foreign aggressors

2. Keep our economy sound.

 

After that, it's up to the free people in this country to make what they will out of the freedom they have been given.

 

First and Foremost is the military and foreign policy.

If we don't have National Security, we have nothing.

I believe McCain is the most qualified candidate when it comes to the military and foreign policy.

All war hero stuff aside, he's been educated by the finest military schools around. He's lived and breathed the life of a US military man.

 

Second is the economy.

As Brad Gluckman posted above, I am not a big believer in wealth re-distribution and I'm not a big fan of social programs.

Government intervention along with "social programs" in the free market is a big part of what just happened with Fannie/Freddie/Lehman/AIG.

Accountability and Responsibility are the keys. Whether it's in a school system or a billion dollar corporation. If you don't produce, if your business strategy fails, then your business should fail and there shouldn't be a government to back you or bail you out.

 

I really don't give a damn about the social issues: abortion, gay marriage, gun control, capital punishment, etc.

IMO, these are small potatoes compared to the 2 big issues. I have opinions on them but really, it's all secondary to national security and economy.

And while I am voting for McCain, I'll make it clear that I don't like the Palin VP choice.

I have a lot of respect for the charisma and intelligence that Obama has. We often talk about athletes that have "IT": that intangible something that separates them. I do believe Obama has "IT" and the ability to inspire and lead that go along with "IT". I just don't like his lack of military/foreing policy experience nor do I like his rhetoric which suggests an increase in social programs.

[Guest BernardPollardFan]

How is a guy that was dumb enough to get imprisoned in combat, and then proceeded to break military code, going to make our military better?

[GettnHuge 1]

I am voting for Obama for the following reasons.

 

I believe the Republicans have allowed corporations to run amok, and that this has jeopardized the safety and security of the American people. I believe that Obama is more likely to propertly regulate them than McCain is.

 

Do we need to even go past point 1?

 

Nov 12 1999 Clinton signed Gramm deregulation bill that Pelosi and Biden voted for.

 

April 14 2000Clinton, Cuomo etc told Freddie and Fannie to take on the poor/minority mortgages despite F+F's objection.

 

Sept 11 2003 Bush actually asked Congress to put a stop and regulate this oncoming crisis.

Dems told him off.

 

May 25 2006 John McCain goes to the senate floor saying there will be a crisis if they don't act.

 

Osama gets 2nd most Fannie and Freddie contributions to Dem Chris Dodd.

 

Frank Raines, CEO of Fannie Mae is an Osama adviser on mortages and housing.

 

James Johnson, another CEO of Fannie Mae was leading Osama's vice presidential search team.

 

 

McCain is on record trying to stop this crisis years ago.

Osama is on record still neck deep with these guys who focked everyone over.

I suppose when you look up at the sun you say: beautiful moon out tonite.

[posty 2,304]

So they believe in fairy tales?

 

Name a country that has taxed themselves into prosperity?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

How is a guy that was dumb enough to get imprisoned in combat, and then proceeded to break military code, going to make our military better?

 

WTF?

 

Dude, you just put yourself forever on par with Txstang, tikigods, and gutterslut on the dumb scale.

 

I see no reason to attempt dialog with you beyond this post.

[ERZER 0]

Do we need to even go past point 1?

 

Nov 12 1999 Clinton signed Gramm deregulation bill that Pelosi and Biden voted for.

 

April 14 2000Clinton, Cuomo etc told Freddie and Fannie to take on the poor/minority mortgages despite F+F's objection.

 

Sept 11 2003 Bush actually asked Congress to put a stop and regulate this oncoming crisis.

Dems told him off.

 

May 25 2006 John McCain goes to the senate floor saying there will be a crisis if they don't act.

 

Osama gets 2nd most Fannie and Freddie contributions to Dem Chris Dodd.

 

Frank Raines, CEO of Fannie Mae is an Osama adviser on mortages and housing.

 

James Johnson, another CEO of Fannie Mae was leading Osama's vice presidential search team.

McCain is on record trying to stop this crisis years ago.

Osama is on record still neck deep with these guys who focked everyone over.

I suppose when you look up at the sun you say: beautiful moon out tonite.

 

 

Very good points and definitely gives one something to think about when you hear change change change.

 

At this point, the other posts by titans&bucs&bearsohmy and TD Ryan2 were very good posts and for a change not just a lot of one liners, but some good thought as to why they support their choice.

 

As to the post below, I really find this to be pretty dam inappropriate. While I may not want to hear the JM camp constantly remind us of his record, to reduce his service record, sacrifice, and pain while a POW down to statements like this is really classless.

 

How is a guy that was dumb enough to get imprisoned in combat, and then proceeded to break military code, going to make our military better?

[Guest BernardPollardFan]

Very good points and definitely gives one something to think about when you hear change change change.

 

At this point, the other posts by titans&bucs&bearsohmy and TD Ryan2 were very good posts and for a change not just a lot of one liners, but some good thought as to why they support their choice.

 

As to the post below, I really find this to be pretty dam inappropriate. While I may not want to hear the JM camp constantly remind us of his record, to reduce his service record, sacrifice, and pain while a POW down to statements like this is really classless.

[GettnHuge 1]

Very good points and definitely gives one something to think about when you hear change change change.

 

At this point, the other posts by titans&bucs&bearsohmy and TD Ryan2 were very good posts and for a change not just a lot of one liners, but some good thought as to why they support their choice.

 

 

:banana: