DeAngelo Williams is the best pure runner in the NFL!

[Hagy34 0]

Ryan - stud

Flacco - stud

Thigpen - playing damn good

 

This was the greatest draft class I have ever seen - and thats really just with fantasy players.

 

Tyler Thigpen isnt a rookie.

[Four More Beers 0]

Chris Long, Sedrick Ellis, Glenn Dorsey - still waiting on D.Harvey

Jerrod Mayo, Curtis Lofton, Keith Rivers before injury

Brandon Flowers, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Leodis McKelvin (KR), Kenny Phillips, Chris Horton

[The Moz 69]

no...

 

just pointing out how dumb it is to say Deangelo Williams is the best pure runner in the game.

 

Oh and to say Williams runs with more determination than Peterson is a joke too.

 

Both runners have a great Oline

 

Both runners have a #2 that can take heat off of them to rest

 

Both runners have a int prone QB

 

Which runner has the better numbers?

 

Peterson - 293 carries for 1413 yards - 4.82 a carry and 9 scores

 

Dwilliams - 213 carries for 1144 yds at 5.37 a carry - numerous scores from 40 yds or more. and 15 total TD's.

 

I won't get into insults as far as being a douche is concerned you clearly have me beaten.

[dksmith17380 0]

Yeah Im a Carolina homer and there arent even this bad of koolaid chugging threads on the panthers message board. LOL

 

But here are some stats to support it:

 

DeAngelo Williams - Leads all NFL backs with 150+ carries in yards per carry at 5.4 Brandon Jacobs is a distant second now at 5.1.

 

Jim Brown leads all runners in NFL history with a 5.22 average, assuming 2,000 carries..

 

Last year, D was at 5.0... this year at 5.4

 

 

 

And if 2008 was so great think about 2006 draft:

 

 

Reggie Bush Southern California 1 2 New Orleans

 

Laurence Maroney Minnesota 1 21 New England

 

DeAngelo Williams Memphis 1 27 Carolina

 

Joseph Addai Louisiana State 1 30 Indianapolis

 

LenDale White Southern California 2 45 Tennessee

 

Maurice Drew UCLA 2 60 Jacksonville

 

Brian Calhoun Wisconsin 3 74 Detroit

 

Jerious Norwood Mississippi State 3 79 Atlanta

 

Leon Washington Florida State 4 117 N.Y. Jets

 

P.J. Daniels

[listen2me 23 1,542]

Both runners have a great Oline

 

Both runners have a #2 that can take heat off of them to rest

 

Both runners have a int prone QB

 

Which runner has the better numbers?

 

Peterson - 293 carries for 1413 yards - 4.82 a carry and 9 scores

 

Dwilliams - 213 carries for 1144 yds at 5.37 a carry - numerous scores from 40 yds or more. and 15 total TD's.

 

I won't get into insults as far as being a douche is concerned you clearly have me beaten.

 

Exactly my point. Typical fantasy football player who doesn't really watch players play, just looks at stats and assumes whoever is leading their fantasy league must be the best player.

 

If you watch the runners run and can say Williams runs with more determination than I don't know what to say. Sorry for the insults but you are clearly hung up on a Primetime game and your fantasy stats.

[listen2me 23 1,542]

Anyone who watches football, any past great RB (like Jim Brown himself in the clip I posted that ypu didn't look at) will say that Peterson is on a different level, he is a mega talent. And to go along with it he runs tougher than anyone in the league.

 

I say this being a Packers fan.

 

There are Carolina fans here saying you are wrong.

 

Williams has been great and has helped me in my fantasy league, I like the guy. But damn a guy can sure climb up the ladder fast to become the best pure runner in the game. Takes less than a year. The typical football fan has really changed since this fantasy football craze kicked in.

[LOD01 191]

DeAngelo isn't even the best runner on his own team... TOTALLY WRONG.

 

Fox is a veterans guy, everybody knows that. He gave DeAngelo all the chances in the world to win the job, in part because Stewart had blocking issues to start the season and was putting the ball on the ground so Fox brought him along slowly. DeAngelo is a very good back, better than I gave him credit for, and he's a freakin nightmare once he's in the open, but to put him above Adrian Peterson, Brian Westbrook, and a few others is a bit premature. Who deserves all the credit is the Panthers front office for making over that offensive line which is just focking MAULING poeple right now. But if I'm Fox, and I had to pick one, it's Stewart because he's light years ahead of where DeAngelo was his rookie season and can only get better.

 

No the OL is light years ahead of where it was 2 years ago.

[Bigunreal1 0]

It's nice to see that a monster Monday Night performance has finally garnered some attention for DeAngelo Williams.

 

First of all, for most of this season, there has not really been a time-share situation in Carolina. Stewart had been limited to 4-5 carries in several recent games. Second, DeAngelo Williams is producing more than any back in NFL history, given that his touches are always limited by his idiotic coach. This guy would be a guaranteed 2000+ yard back if he had a coach that built his offense around him. Just imagine what he would do with the touches that a Matt Forte, for instance, gets every game. DeAngelo reminds me more of Barry Sanders than any back I've seen in the past decade. The main reason he has put up the kind of incredible numbers he has is because of his long runs, which happen now every week. What other back ever got 15 TDs, despite being on the sidelines much of the time, and being almost ignored in the passing game (when he's a great receiver)?

 

DeAngelo continues to be underrated everywhere. Jon Gruden didn't even mention him in his post game press conference. Instead, he mentioned how great Julius Peppers and Steve Smith were. Wow- talk about lack of respect! Was this idiot watching the game? Why does everyone continue to claim that DeAngelo hadn't "developed" until this season? Only his idiotic coach held him back the first two seasons. As a rookie, Fox barely played him, but in his few chances to play, DeAngelo flashed great potential. Last season, every time Fox gave him half a chance. DeAngelo broke big runs and looked like a superstar in the making. Of course, moronic Fox constantly shuttled him out, in favor of future Hall of Famer DeShaun Foster. What a genius! Remember, DeAngelo averaged 5 yards a carry last season- clearly he was already great, but his coach held him back for unknown reasons.

 

At this point, Adrian Peterson is the only RB in the league in DeAngelo's class. Of couirse, he has to put up with an idiotic coach as well, who refuses to use him as a receiver, too (preferring the immortal Chester Taylor instead). DeAngelo may very well score 20 TDs this season, despite being pulled from the goal line often (although he was allowed to score 4 1 yard TDs last week for some reason), and having hit 20 carries in a game only once this season. That's an incredible achievement. To the clown who said DeAngelo wasn't even the best RB on his own team- how much better do you think Stewart could do than average 5.4 yards a carry (best in the NFL)? DeAngelo is clearly the star player on the Panthers, yet has to put up with watching much of each game from the sidelines. What other coach has ever treated his star player like this? Who thinks it's a brilliant strategy to limit the touches your best player gets every week? Okay, I'll now go and read my son DeAngelo a bedtime story....

[listen2me 23 1,542]

It's nice to see that a monster Monday Night performance has finally garnered some attention for DeAngelo Williams.

 

First of all, for most of this season, there has not really been a time-share situation in Carolina. Stewart had been limited to 4-5 carries in several recent games. Second, DeAngelo Williams is producing more than any back in NFL history, given that his touches are always limited by his idiotic coach. This guy would be a guaranteed 2000+ yard back if he had a coach that built his offense around him. Just imagine what he would do with the touches that a Matt Forte, for instance, gets every game. DeAngelo reminds me more of Barry Sanders than any back I've seen in the past decade. The main reason he has put up the kind of incredible numbers he has is because of his long runs, which happen now every week. What other back ever got 15 TDs, despite being on the sidelines much of the time, and being almost ignored in the passing game (when he's a great receiver)?

 

DeAngelo continues to be underrated everywhere. Jon Gruden didn't even mention him in his post game press conference. Instead, he mentioned how great Julius Peppers and Steve Smith were. Wow- talk about lack of respect! Was this idiot watching the game? Why does everyone continue to claim that DeAngelo hadn't "developed" until this season? Only his idiotic coach held him back the first two seasons. As a rookie, Fox barely played him, but in his few chances to play, DeAngelo flashed great potential. Last season, every time Fox gave him half a chance. DeAngelo broke big runs and looked like a superstar in the making. Of course, moronic Fox constantly shuttled him out, in favor of future Hall of Famer DeShaun Foster. What a genius! Remember, DeAngelo averaged 5 yards a carry last season- clearly he was already great, but his coach held him back for unknown reasons.

 

At this point, Adrian Peterson is the only RB in the league in DeAngelo's class. Of couirse, he has to put up with an idiotic coach as well, who refuses to use him as a receiver, too (preferring the immortal Chester Taylor instead). DeAngelo may very well score 20 TDs this season, despite being pulled from the goal line often (although he was allowed to score 4 1 yard TDs last week for some reason), and having hit 20 carries in a game only once this season. That's an incredible achievement. To the clown who said DeAngelo wasn't even the best RB on his own team- how much better do you think Stewart could do than average 5.4 yards a carry (best in the NFL)? DeAngelo is clearly the star player on the Panthers, yet has to put up with watching much of each game from the sidelines. What other coach has ever treated his star player like this? Who thinks it's a brilliant strategy to limit the touches your best player gets every week? Okay, I'll now go and read my son DeAngelo a bedtime story....

 

I respect your opinion, but I think Stewart gives Williams enough gas to be so good. If he was an almighty runner why wouldn't he look great from day one like Peterson has?

 

Automatic 2000+ yards? That is a bold statement.

 

You are questioning John Fox and his limit he puts on Williams' touches, yet they are a top 2 team in the NFC, with a chance to get the #1 seed. Stewart runs well, they have a great 2 back system. Don't call the guy an idiot for not meeting your fantasy needs, or for not trying to get Williams stats. Instead respect the guy for being a very solid coach and getting it right.

[Fantasy Bum 1]

 

Norwood's got some awesome cut-back ability. If he was a starter he would be a top 5 back year in year out. This boy was hyped on here in years past just like Ryan Torain was this season. I always understood the Norwood hype, but not so much Torain.

[dksmith17380 0]

save it Bigunreal.

 

The only moron here is you. Foxxy clearly has done something right if he has positioned himself at 10-3. As fantasy players we should also not be blind to the facts of real football and the growing trends in the league. Just think about the teams this year with multiple back compared to teams with one every down guy.

 

True 1 every down back teams (the list grows shorter and shorter)

San Diego - struggle

KC - obvious struggle

SF - Head coach didnt even make past week 8?

Eagles - Decent but still out of playoffs right now

 

Running back by comittee teams:

NYG - the best in NFC

Car - 2nd best

Ten - best in AFC

Atl - sleeper special this year

 

Even the teams that we expected are every down back teams are trending away from it (Buf, Min). And some are reduced to have every down backs due to injury but most are hurting (Dal, Hou).

 

This isn't baseball, football is about Ws not numbers. And if fantasy players don't understand that, they too will be left behind.

[Bigunreal1 0]

Atlanta isn't a committee by any definition. Turner gets tons of carries. Norwood is just a change of pace guy (although I think he deserves more touches). You left off Chicago- which gives more touches to one back than any other team, and Cleveland- where slow old Jamal Lewis is allowed to carry virtually the entire load. Also, at this point Arizona is a one-back team, although Hightower has been terribly unimpressive and doesn't deserve it by any means (not that they have much else). Still, they've been pretty successful. When Parker is healthy, he gets almost all the carries for the Steelers. Again, that's worked pretty well for them. Portis gets almost all the carries for the Redskins. Marion Barber got almost all the carries for Dallas, even when Felix Jones was flashing great skills. The Rams give Jackson almost all touches when he's healthy. Ryan Grant gives up passing situations to Jackson, but gets a ton of carries for Green Bay. Thomas Jones gets a ton of carries for the Jets, and they've done pretty well. Steve Slayton, now that ancient Ahman Green is hurt, is getting a lot more touches than DeAngelo (and looking great in doing so). Even Kevin Smith gets a much higher percentage of his team's touches than DeAngelo, even if the woeful Lions don't get to run the ball much. Joseph Addai normally gets a lot higher percentage of his team's touches than he has this season, but has been banged up a lot and often unimpressive when healthy. I don't think the Colts are sold on any kind of committee system. Really, only the Broncos, Saints, Patriots and Seahawks give less of a percentage of touches to one running back than Carolina does.

 

My point is, while more teams are splitting carries among two or more backs, there are several teams who still have a starting back who gets the lion's share of work. DeAngelo Williams is unquestionably more talented than Thomas Jones, Jamal Lewis, Matt Forte, Tim Hightower, Steven Jackson, Marion Barber, Ryan Grant, Clinton Portis, etc. Yet all of these guys are only taken out of the game for a breather here and there, or perhaps on passing downs. Even Adrian Peterson, while inexplicably giving up passing downs to Taylor, gets a lot more carries than DeAngelo. Of all the time-share situations in the NFL, only Tennessee comes close to matching Carolina in terms of splitting carries evenly. Of course, it makes no sense there, either, as brilliant rookie Chris Johnson is shuttled off the field regularly in favor of fat, plodding tortoise Lendale White. I agree that teams should give their backs a break, but it is ridiculous when a player like DeAngelo, no matter how well he peforms, has only had one 20 carry game this season, and is rarely used as a pass receiver. Compare DeAngelo's touches to other starting NFL backs- it's a disgrace. I don't care what Fox's won-loss record is- on this issue, he's a complete idiot.

[listen2me 23 1,542]

My point is, while more teams are splitting carries among two or more backs, there are several teams who still have a starting back who gets the lion's share of work. DeAngelo Williams is unquestionably more talented than Thomas Jones, Jamal Lewis, Matt Forte, Tim Hightower, Steven Jackson, Marion Barber, Ryan Grant, Clinton Portis, etc. Yet all of these guys are only taken out of the game for a breather here and there, or perhaps on passing downs. Even Adrian Peterson, while inexplicably giving up passing downs to Taylor, gets a lot more carries than DeAngelo. Of all the time-share situations in the NFL, only Tennessee comes close to matching Carolina in terms of splitting carries evenly. Of course, it makes no sense there, either, as brilliant rookie Chris Johnson is shuttled off the field regularly in favor of fat, plodding tortoise Lendale White. I agree that teams should give their backs a break, but it is ridiculous when a player like DeAngelo, no matter how well he peforms, has only had one 20 carry game this season, and is rarely used as a pass receiver. Compare DeAngelo's touches to other starting NFL backs- it's a disgrace. I don't care what Fox's won-loss record is- on this issue, he's a complete idiot.

 

[CrazyStanley 0]

I'm not sure this is a one-week-wonder thing here.

DeAngelo is currently the #1 Fantasy RB in my standard scoring league.

He's posted the following fantasy numbers over the last 9 weeks:

30

32

19

24

20

17

12

2

32

 

Cedric Benson would have to rip it up from now until week 6 of 2009 before anyone could crown him anything besides Bust.

 

I HATE Cedric Benson(but love this quote), what a waste/idiot/moron so on and so forth

[Wildman 0]

I respect your opinion, but I think Stewart gives Williams enough gas to be so good. If he was an almighty runner why wouldn't he look great from day one like Peterson has?

 

Automatic 2000+ yards? That is a bold statement.

 

You are questioning John Fox and his limit he puts on Williams' touches, yet they are a top 2 team in the NFC, with a chance to get the #1 seed. Stewart runs well, they have a great 2 back system. Don't call the guy an idiot for not meeting your fantasy needs, or for not trying to get Williams stats. Instead respect the guy for being a very solid coach and getting it right.

 

I'll answer that first question - O.J. Simpson didn't look almighty from day one and he was an all-time great. I have to argue that Williams play has nothing to do with Jonathan Stewart. So you know, Stewart is my top back in my annual draft publication and D Will was my #2 back in 2006.

 

Williams didn't play as well in 2006-2007 for several reasons. One of them was the lackluster offensive line compared to what they have now. Second, Williams tended to bounce too many plays outside and he's not as fast as Adrian Peterson nor as strong. Third, DeShaun Foster as top-shelf athleticism and hung onto the role for a bit long as Williams learned the ins and outs of the system. Fourth, part of learning those ins and outs was pass blocking something he didn't have to do much of as the Memphis offense.

 

Williams is showing all of the things I saw from him in college, deceptive power, good vision, decent movement, and enough speed to break big plays. Sometimes a player takes a bit more time to adjust to the speed and complexity of the pro game. When your athleticism goes from being better than 99% of your competition (college football) to being on par with everyone else (NFL), it's easy to think too much. When you think rather than react, you slow down and make poor decisions. You stop playing naturally. This often makes you look like a dud early in your career. It's the reason why some great QBs look like crap to begin their careers. It's just more noticeable with QBs than it is with RBs because it happens less often with backs. It doesn't make Williams stupid for not catching on as quickly. It just meant he dwelled on it a bit too much.

 

Jonathan Stewart is a going to be a stud, but that has nothing to do with Williams playing better. Derrick Ward doesn't make Brandon Jacobs better (or vice versa). Priest Holmes didn't make Larry Johnson great. Marion Barber didn't make Julius Jones a stud. Jerious Norwood is the same back since Michael Turner came to town. It's the offensive line and the success of the passing game that helps open holes for runners, not other running backs - unless they are lead blockers

 

All that said, Adrian Peterson and DeAngelo Williams are both two of the better performing runners in the league. Both are capable of big plays because they can get yardage after contact. What separates them from each other is that Williams faces fewer 8-man fronts and his big runs tend to come after making one man miss or breaking one past the line of scrimmage. What he does is impressive - especially his vision and balance - but you seriously need to watch some Walter Payton highlights and then put on that Peterson youtube clip and watch how Peterson's skills and situation (no QB, decent line) resembles Payton.

 

You may not like Jim Brown for whatever reason. But when the running back equivalent of Picasso says Peterson is at another level, you ought to at least try to see why he says that rather than write it off. Jim Brown has forgotten more about running the football than 2/3 of the backs in the NFL right now will ever know.

 

I watch so much tape of these guys and I'll tell you that I was very appreciative of Williams and Stewart. Stewart earned my first perfect grade. Williams was labeled a franchise talent in my scoring system. The reason is they both did a lot of fundamental things very well. Peterson was labeled a franchise talent with a lower score, but I noted that Peterson's talents only come around once every 10-15 years. When you are a special talent, you sometimes do things "the wrong way" but get away with it because of your immense skills that more than compensate:

 

Barry Sanders - he got stuffed as much if not more than most backs every year, but his lateral movement, open field vision, and balance were unheard of

 

Jim Brown - upright runner, not much of pass blocker, and carried the ball too far from his body. His combo of speed-power-balance-and vision is among the best of all-time.

 

Walter Payton - held the ball like a loaf of bread. Lost yardage going east-west too often. Might be the greatest all-around back ever.

 

It really puzzles me when someone tries to argue Williams is as good a player as Peterson. In terms of numbers, they are absolutely right. But when you take away the quantitative evidence and look at it in a qualitative way, I don't understand how anyone could compare the two. Peterson's ability may not be much better when charting it mathematically in some fashion but everything has both a scientific and artistic element to it. Some things are judged more towards one or the other.

 

In terms of production, Moz is right for this year. In terms of artistry, I hope he doesn't think the same thing, but that's his opinion.

[listen2me 23 1,542]

I'll answer that first question - O.J. Simpson didn't look almighty from day one and he was an all-time great. I have to argue that Williams play has nothing to do with Jonathan Stewart. So you know, Stewart is my top back in my annual draft publication and D Will was my #2 back in 2006.

 

Williams didn't play as well in 2006-2007 for several reasons. One of them was the lackluster offensive line compared to what they have now. Second, Williams tended to bounce too many plays outside and he's not as fast as Adrian Peterson nor as strong. Third, DeShaun Foster as top-shelf athleticism and hung onto the role for a bit long as Williams learned the ins and outs of the system. Fourth, part of learning those ins and outs was pass blocking something he didn't have to do much of as the Memphis offense.

 

Williams is showing all of the things I saw from him in college, deceptive power, good vision, decent movement, and enough speed to break big plays. Sometimes a player takes a bit more time to adjust to the speed and complexity of the pro game. When your athleticism goes from being better than 99% of your competition (college football) to being on par with everyone else (NFL), it's easy to think too much. When you think rather than react, you slow down and make poor decisions. You stop playing naturally. This often makes you look like a dud early in your career. It's the reason why some great QBs look like crap to begin their careers. It's just more noticeable with QBs than it is with RBs because it happens less often with backs. It doesn't make Williams stupid for not catching on as quickly. It just meant he dwelled on it a bit too much.

 

Jonathan Stewart is a going to be a stud, but that has nothing to do with Williams playing better. Derrick Ward doesn't make Brandon Jacobs better (or vice versa). Priest Holmes didn't make Larry Johnson great. Marion Barber didn't make Julius Jones a stud. Jerious Norwood is the same back since Michael Turner came to town. It's the offensive line and the success of the passing game that helps open holes for runners, not other running backs - unless they are lead blockers

 

All that said, Adrian Peterson and DeAngelo Williams are both two of the better performing runners in the league. Both are capable of big plays because they can get yardage after contact. What separates them from each other is that Williams faces fewer 8-man fronts and his big runs tend to come after making one man miss or breaking one past the line of scrimmage. What he does is impressive - especially his vision and balance - but you seriously need to watch some Walter Payton highlights and then put on that Peterson youtube clip and watch how Peterson's skills and situation (no QB, decent line) resembles Payton.

 

You may not like Jim Brown for whatever reason. But when the running back equivalent of Picasso says Peterson is at another level, you ought to at least try to see why he says that rather than write it off. Jim Brown has forgotten more about running the football than 2/3 of the backs in the NFL right now will ever know.

 

I watch so much tape of these guys and I'll tell you that I was very appreciative of Williams and Stewart. Stewart earned my first perfect grade. Williams was labeled a franchise talent in my scoring system. The reason is they both did a lot of fundamental things very well. Peterson was labeled a franchise talent with a lower score, but I noted that Peterson's talents only come around once every 10-15 years. When you are a special talent, you sometimes do things "the wrong way" but get away with it because of your immense skills that more than compensate:

 

Barry Sanders - he got stuffed as much if not more than most backs every year, but his lateral movement, open field vision, and balance were unheard of

 

Jim Brown - upright runner, not much of pass blocker, and carried the ball too far from his body. His combo of speed-power-balance-and vision is among the best of all-time.

 

Walter Payton - held the ball like a loaf of bread. Lost yardage going east-west too often. Might be the greatest all-around back ever.

 

It really puzzles me when someone tries to argue Williams is as good a player as Peterson. In terms of numbers, they are absolutely right. But when you take away the quantitative evidence and look at it in a qualitative way, I don't understand how anyone could compare the two. Peterson's ability may not be much better when charting it mathematically in some fashion but everything has both a scientific and artistic element to it. Some things are judged more towards one or the other.

 

In terms of production, Moz is right for this year. In terms of artistry, I hope he doesn't think the same thing, but that's his opinion.

 

Good post Wildman, and thanks for giving your 2 cents.

 

As for your take on Stewart's influence on Williams, I think he does help him just in the sense of Avg. Williams wouldn't have as juicy of an average if Stewart didn't get as many carries, especially the tough short yardage carries. I am liking the 2 back system more and more, there is no need for a RB to carry it 25-30 times. I think in a 2 back system there are more explosive runs, since runners are fresh and teh D is off-balance.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

DeAngelo is a hell of a runner, BUT the Panthers also have a fantastic O-Line. I think they have something like three first-round picks on that line (none of them busts). Also, I've never been a big fan of Delhomme, but he is still a far sight better than Tarvaris Jackson, a really old Gus Frerotte, or whatever other retread is playing QB for AD's team.

 

So while Williams is great, I would still take AD any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[Wildman 0]

I can see your point about average per carry due to the situational roles - it's a good argument I didn't think about.

[Houston Texans 10]

DeAngelo isn't even the best runner on his own team...

 

Fox is a veterans guy, everybody knows that. He gave DeAngelo all the chances in the world to win the job, in part because Stewart had blocking issues to start the season and was putting the ball on the ground so Fox brought him along slowly. DeAngelo is a very good back, better than I gave him credit for, and he's a freakin nightmare once he's in the open, but to put him above Adrian Peterson, Brian Westbrook, and a few others is a bit premature. Who deserves all the credit is the Panthers front office for making over that offensive line which is just focking MAULING poeple right now. But if I'm Fox, and I had to pick one, it's Stewart because he's light years ahead of where DeAngelo was his rookie season and can only get better.

I'm not sure that you are making a lot of sense with this post. You're saying that Stewart is "light years ahead of where DeAngelo was his rookie season." You make this statement right after you say "Who deserves all the credit is the Panthers front office for making over that offensive line which is just focking MAULING poeple right now."

 

If Williams' success this year is because of the improved offensive line, how come Stewart being "light years ahead of where DeAngelo was his rookie season" isn't due to the offensive line?

 

How about this? During Williams' rookie year, he gained 814 total yards. Stewart has 717 so far. Williams scored 2 TDs, Stewart has scored 8. Yards look similar, but Stewart appears to be better at scoring. But you have to look at the overall teams to determine if anyone is "light years ahead."

Williams scored 2 of the 7 TDs that Carolina RBs scored that year. Stewart has scored 8 of 23 TDs scored by Carolina RBs so far this year.

You can't discount the fact that Stewart, as a rookie, is running behind a better O-line and on a better team than Williams did as a rookie.

Stewart might be the more talented back, but using the logic that Stewart looks better as a rookie than Williams did is using flawed logic.

[dksmith17380 0]

Atlanta isn't a committee by any definition. Turner gets tons of carries. Norwood is just a change of pace guy (although I think he deserves more touches). You left off Chicago- which gives more touches to one back than any other team, and Cleveland- where slow old Jamal Lewis is allowed to carry virtually the entire load. Also, at this point Arizona is a one-back team, although Hightower has been terribly unimpressive and doesn't deserve it by any means (not that they have much else). Still, they've been pretty successful. When Parker is healthy, he gets almost all the carries for the Steelers. Again, that's worked pretty well for them. Portis gets almost all the carries for the Redskins. Marion Barber got almost all the carries for Dallas, even when Felix Jones was flashing great skills. The Rams give Jackson almost all touches when he's healthy. Ryan Grant gives up passing situations to Jackson, but gets a ton of carries for Green Bay. Thomas Jones gets a ton of carries for the Jets, and they've done pretty well. Steve Slayton, now that ancient Ahman Green is hurt, is getting a lot more touches than DeAngelo (and looking great in doing so). Even Kevin Smith gets a much higher percentage of his team's touches than DeAngelo, even if the woeful Lions don't get to run the ball much. Joseph Addai normally gets a lot higher percentage of his team's touches than he has this season, but has been banged up a lot and often unimpressive when healthy. I don't think the Colts are sold on any kind of committee system. Really, only the Broncos, Saints, Patriots and Seahawks give less of a percentage of touches to one running back than Carolina does.

 

My point is, while more teams are splitting carries among two or more backs, there are several teams who still have a starting back who gets the lion's share of work. DeAngelo Williams is unquestionably more talented than Thomas Jones, Jamal Lewis, Matt Forte, Tim Hightower, Steven Jackson, Marion Barber, Ryan Grant, Clinton Portis, etc. Yet all of these guys are only taken out of the game for a breather here and there, or perhaps on passing downs. Even Adrian Peterson, while inexplicably giving up passing downs to Taylor, gets a lot more carries than DeAngelo. Of all the time-share situations in the NFL, only Tennessee comes close to matching Carolina in terms of splitting carries evenly. Of course, it makes no sense there, either, as brilliant rookie Chris Johnson is shuttled off the field regularly in favor of fat, plodding tortoise Lendale White. I agree that teams should give their backs a break, but it is ridiculous when a player like DeAngelo, no matter how well he peforms, has only had one 20 carry game this season, and is rarely used as a pass receiver. Compare DeAngelo's touches to other starting NFL backs- it's a disgrace. I don't care what Fox's won-loss record is- on this issue, he's a complete idiot.

 

 

I think you are confused about what every down back means. That means they play every down. Even 3rd.

NYJ- leons there 3rd and long guy. even their gadget play guy. Forte looses Goalline carries. Jamals is losing carries to Harrison.

 

Sure I didnt mention Portis or S Jax who are every down backs but they also encourage my point. Both are banged up and struggling and their teams are most likely out of the playoffs because of it.

 

The proofs in the pudding. You play to win the game. And Fox is not worried about your fantasy team. Just FYI

[FeelingMN 273]

I'm not sure that you are making a lot of sense with this post. You're saying that Stewart is "light years ahead of where DeAngelo was his rookie season." You make this statement right after you say "Who deserves all the credit is the Panthers front office for making over that offensive line which is just focking MAULING poeple right now."

 

If Williams' success this year is because of the improved offensive line, how come Stewart being "light years ahead of where DeAngelo was his rookie season" isn't due to the offensive line?

 

How about this? During Williams' rookie year, he gained 814 total yards. Stewart has 717 so far. Williams scored 2 TDs, Stewart has scored 8. Yards look similar, but Stewart appears to be better at scoring. But you have to look at the overall teams to determine if anyone is "light years ahead."

Williams scored 2 of the 7 TDs that Carolina RBs scored that year. Stewart has scored 8 of 23 TDs scored by Carolina RBs so far this year.

You can't discount the fact that Stewart, as a rookie, is running behind a better O-line and on a better team than Williams did as a rookie.

Stewart might be the more talented back, but using the logic that Stewart looks better as a rookie than Williams did is using flawed logic.

 

At the same time, Stewart has been hobbled by injury, so the numbers skew accordingly.

 

Also, Stewart shares carries with DWill. For two consecutive years, DWill was sharing carries with DeShaun Focking Foster.

[surferskin 30]

I think having Stewart there really helps DeAngelo in the end. You don't bust that many long runs when your getting 25+ carries a game and trying to bruise out short yardage. He's got fresh legs in the 4th quarter and more importantly, at the end of the season. I think around 18 carries is optimal for guy of Williams size.

 

It's kinda like Portis in Washington. He's a great RB with pretty much every skill but the pounding has taken away his home run ability. And now he's totally dinged when his owners and the Redskins need him the most. If he had a guy like Stewart as his backup, you'd be seeing the best of him right now, not the worst.

[parrot 789]

I think having Stewart there really helps DeAngelo in the end. You don't bust that many long runs when your getting 25+ carries a game and trying to bruise out short yardage.

 

Chester Taylor would attest to this I think. Peterson hammers the defense down the field, then Chester comes in and breaks off the last 20 in one carry.

[Bigunreal1 0]

A few corrections- Forte does not lose goal line carries. Where did you get that from? He's the closest thing to a pure every down back in the league right now. My point was about touches in a given game, not the definition of "every down back." There is no such thing as a back that plays every single down in a game. Even a true workhorse back will be given a breather or two.

 

When I mentioned Thomas Jones, of course I was aware of Washington's role there. Despite the fact he sees action on most passing downs, he doesn't stop Jones from seeing a ton of touches per game. As for Jamal Lewis, Jerome Harrison is barely used- he's lucky to get a few touches each game. I'm simply saying that DeAngelo Williams sees fewer touches, by far, than any of the top backs in the league (and many of the obviously less talented backs). This is reflected in his league leading 5.4 ypc.

 

I don't expect any coach to cater to my fantasy team's needs. DeAngelo has led two of my teams into the championship game this season, even with his limited touches, so I'm not complaining about that. From a football standpoint, it makes no sense to limit your best player's participation in the offense. Why isn't DeAngelo used more as a receiver? Even with a time share similar to any other team in the league, except Tennessee, there is no reason in the world why a talent like DeAngelo doesn't see 25-30 touches per game. Also, why doesn't Fox ever have both backs on the field at the same time? Buffalo does this frequently with Lynch and Jackson (who is obviously not at the talent level of either Williams or Stewart).

 

Bottom line is- no back in the history of the league has produced as much with so few opportunities as DeAngelo has this season.

[dksmith17380 0]

if thats your point then fine I agree. But I thought that your point was that Fox can't coach, which is obviously wrong.

- Forte is losing goalline carries to McKie

 

- and why would you want J Stew and D Will on the field at the same time? Its working fine as it is now. Hoover is a great blocking FB and King is a great blocking TE. The only way we would do that is a gadget play or something.

[The Moz 69]

didn't d williams have like 4 1 yd plunges for a score in 1 game? where was the Stewy vulture that day?

[dksmith17380 0]

J Stew has been hampered with a toe injury recently. Monday night he was clearly healthy. Expect more of the 50/50 share if he is healthy. But from what I have seen recently, D Will has every bit of tackle breaking ability that J Stew has, if not more.