And yet MORE "doom and gloom" from Obama...

[posty 2,822]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9...;show_article=1

 

WASHINGTON (AP) - Republicans tried to push back against the ballooning size of President Barack Obama's economic recovery plan Wednesday, even as he warned that the financial crisis will turn into "a catastrophe" if the bill isn't passed quickly.

 

Obama summoned centrist senators to the White House Wednesday afternoon to discuss a plan to cut more than $50 billion in spending from the measure, which breached the $900 billion barrier in the Senate on Tuesday and appears headed higher.

 

Republican Sens. Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe of Maine, as well as Ben Nelson, D-Neb., have tentatively agreed to cutting more than $50 billion from the bill, a Nelson spokesman said, though details weren't yet available.

 

Their effort is central to building at least some bipartisan support for the bill, which has come under increasing attack for too much spending unrelated to jolting the economy right away.

 

Obama indicated he's amenable to changes.

 

"No plan is perfect, and we should work to make it stronger," Obama said at the White House Wednesday. "Let's not make the perfect the enemy of the essential. Let's show people all over our country who are looking for leadership in this difficult time that we are equal to the task."

 

The cost of the plan expanded past $900 billion after the Senate on Tuesday added money for medical research and tax breaks for car purchases. An effort to add $25 billion more for infrastructure projects—which narrowly failed to advance—is likely to be revived.

 

The cost could go higher Wednesday if a tax break for homebuyers is made more generous.

 

Sen. Johnny Isakson, R-Ga., is pressing for a tax credit of up to $15,000 for everyone who buys a home this year, at a cost of about $20 billion. The pending measure would award a $7,500 tax credit only to first-time homebuyers.

 

Taken together, the developments prompted a scolding from the Senate's top Republican.

 

"At some point, we're going to have to learn to say no," said Sen. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky. "If we're going to help the economy, we need to get a hold of this bill. And making it bigger isn't the answer."

 

The president rejected some criticisms of the plan: that tax cuts alone would solve the problem, or that longer-term goals such as energy independence and health care reform should wait until afterward.

 

In remarks at the White House, Obama argued that recalcitrant lawmakers need to get behind his approach, saying the American people embraced his ideas when they elected him president in November.

 

But Republicans have focused the debate on questionable spending in the bill, pushing down its popularity with complaints about items such as money to combat sexually transmitted diseases, fix problems with the Census and combat the flu.

 

Some Democrats are griping as well. Rep. Jim Cooper, D-Tenn., a big critic of the measure, told a Nashville radio station that he "got some quiet encouragement from the Obama folks for what I'm doing.... They know its a messy bill and they wanted a clean bill."

 

Obama has sought each day to ratchet up the pressure on lawmakers, bringing different supportive groups to the White House, scheduling a series of TV interviews, even traveling to a charter school to tout one portion of the bill.

 

"A failure to act, and act now, will turn crisis into a catastrophe and guarantee a longer recession, a less robust recovery, and a more uncertain future," Obama said in his prepared remarks.

[surferskin 31]

Isn't this what he called during his campaign as "fear mongering"?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Still talking down the economy.

[RLLD 4,275]

Isn't this what he called during his campaign as "fear mongering"?

 

Sure was, by those heavily invested in people ignoring reality. One thing about Obama, he is calling it right. At least one person in government is willing to admit the truth, maybe this can be the tipping point for us to arrive at a meaningful solution.

[Voltaire 5,497]

The politics of fear works ... Republicans should try it some time.

[gocolts 300]

The politics of fear works ... Republicans should try it some time.

 

They would never be able to catch up with the libs fear mongering. Just look at what they have done with global warming. Never has there been so much fear mongering in history. It is unbelievable how they can freak out so many with a temperature change of 1 degree over a 100 years. At least now even the left is even laughing at this obvious scam.

[tikigods 76]

The politics of fear works ... Republicans should try it some time.

 

Thread. Over.

[gocolts 300]

Thread. Over.

 

 

The Democrat have used fear just as much if not more. They have been using it recently with global warming, the economy, the war, etc....

 

It's silly to think only the republicans use it.

[tikigods 76]

 

The Democrat have used fear just as much if not more. They have been using it recently with global warming, the economy, the war, etc....

 

It's silly to think only the republicans use it.

 

Please, stop. I live in NH and watched the NeoCons campaign here for two years singing the terrorist boogyman and how Obama was a Muslim. The economy is on the verge of total collapse. It's a worldwide issue, not just a US issue.

[FeelingMN 273]

 

The Democrat have used fear just as much if not more. They have been using it recently with global warming, the economy, the war, etc....

 

It's silly to think only the republicans use it.

 

 

While I agree with you that politicians use fear mongering to further their political aims, and that the Left does this as much as the Right, I disagree that global warming is a scam, and the economy is nothing but a ploy for the Dems to gain political traction with the American public.

 

Global warming is a scientific issue, and so I'll cede to the scientists who are researching the problem. I do agree the thing has been politicized to the point where John Q Public thinks the earth is about to blow up if something isn't done ASAP. But to say it's a scam, or a hoax is a wee bit shortsighted on your part.

 

Same goes with the economy. People are losing jobs/homes, their financial footing right now. Maybe things won't get any worse (I can hear RLLD screaming THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING!), but they sure as hell ain't anywhere close to getting any better. Is the stimulus package gonna singlehandedly deliver us to prosperity? Nope. Does Obama phrase his speech in such a way as to highlight the package as such an antedote? Yep. Politics is being played, no doubt. But it's not exactly fear mongering.

[gocolts 300]

Please, stop. I live in NH and watched the NeoCons campaign here for two years singing the terrorist boogyman and how Obama was a Muslim. The economy is on the verge of total collapse. It's a worldwide issue, not just a US issue.

 

So we are not supposed to point out when the democrats do it. Gotcha.

[tikigods 76]

So we are not supposed to point out when the democrats do it. Gotcha.

 

Proof is in the pudding, GC. The economy is quickly shiitting the bed. It's fact, not politics. McCain made the mistake of saying it was stable only days before the house of cards fell. It was his downfall in the election.

 

How we deal with faltering economy is now the issue. I say let it collapse and allow the free market sort it out. Government intervention only adds/slows the misery.

[gocolts 300]

Proof is in the pudding, GC. The economy is quickly shiitting the bed. It's fact, not politics. McCain made the mistake of saying it was stable only days before the house of cards fell. It was his downfall in the election.

 

How we deal with faltering economy is now the issue. I say let it collapse and allow the free market sort it out. Government intervention only adds/slows the misery.

Even if everything you are saying is true, that doesn't really address what I said about how the democrats use fear plenty themselves or why you don't like folks to bring up this fact.

[tikigods 76]

Even if everything you are saying is true, that doesn't really address what I said about how the democrats use fear plenty themselves or why you don't like folks to bring up this fact.

 

The Democrats aren't using fear they're stating a FACT. Matter of fact, both political parties are in agreement that the economy is in dire straits. They differ over spending in the economy v. tax cuts. If you're too stupid to see that than discussing this any further is really a waste of my time.

[gocolts 300]

The Democrats aren't using fear they're stating a FACT. Matter of fact, both political parties are in agreement that the economy is in dire straits. They differ over spending in the economy v. tax cuts. If you're too stupid to see that than discussing this any further is really a waste of my time.

 

You think the Democrats don't use fear and then think I am the stupid one. I even gave you 2 other examples. Incredible.

[Mile High Drunk 13]

The Democrats aren't using fear they're stating a FACT. Matter of fact, both political parties are in agreement that the economy is in dire straits. They differ over spending in the economy v. tax cuts. If you're too stupid to see that than discussing this any further is really a waste of my time.

Fact is a 4 letter word.

[FeelingMN 273]

You think the Democrats don't use fear and then think I am the stupid one. I even gave you 2 other examples. Incredible.

 

How is global warming fear mongering? I agree they politicize the issue to their benefit, but it's really not any different than pro-choice or gay rights. It's just a point of distinction between the left and the right.

 

Fear mongering is what happened ALOT in the '04 election. Did the Republicans run on a platform of homeland security? Yep. And a lot of their campaigns focused on their 'abilities' to keep America safe, implying a vote for Democrats would be a vote against safety. That's blatant fear mongering.

 

IF the Dems used GW to rouse fear in the populace, they'd draw contrast between themselves and the Right regarding the issue: if you don't vote Dem., the world is gonna fry in the next century. I've never heard this. I have heard Dems broach the issue. I've heard McCain and Bush address it as well. None of them has ever said 'If you don't vote for me, the world will fry.'

 

By the way, EVERYONE agrees that Global Warming is occurring. And EVERYONE agrees man has played some role in it. Differences arise in the relative man made contributions. Fine. I can live with that. Do more research. Initiate further discussion. But to play it off as a scam is to commit the same mistake as the environmental zealots who screech the world will end if we don't start shut down all the factories and stop driving cars: to act indifferently in face of the available evidence.

 

And the economy is in dire condition. That is a fact. Are we gonna go Mad Max? Prolly not. But everyone agrees we're on dangerous footing economically. The difference lies in how best to mete out aid. I will agree with you that Obama spikes his words for effect. But that's politics....as usual. Fear mongering would say 'Me and the Dems have a way to save you. The Reps are against this, so they don't care if you lose your home.' That's not exactly what he's saying. I hear him just explaining the situation, albeit embellished to ensure there's support for his stimulus package. And his point seems to be more in getting something passed quick, than getting this bill passed.

 

Just quit listening to Michael Savage and you won't see things so black and white.

[MTSkiBum 1,626]

By the way, EVERYONE agrees that Global Warming is occurring. And EVERYONE agrees man has played some role in it. Differences arise in the relative man made contributions. Fine. I can live with that. Do more research. Initiate further discussion. But to play it off as a scam is to commit the same mistake as the environmental zealots who screech the world will end if we don't start shut down all the factories and stop driving cars: to act indifferently in face of the available evidence.

 

Everyone agrees, that over the last 30 years, that the average surface temperature has risen, however that is a far leap from what you posted. I dont want this to turn into an argument on global warming, but i am going to say you are wrong

[FeelingMN 273]

Everyone agrees, that over the last 30 years, that the average surface temperature has risen, however that is a far leap from what you posted. I dont want this to turn into an argument on global warming, but i am going to say you are wrong

 

Alright, EVERYONE is a pretty broad term. I will say most climatologists, even the skeptics, have conceded man is playing some role in warming. The extent to which man is responsible for the warming is up for debate.

[pimptastic69 0]

Alright, EVERYONE is a pretty broad term. I will say most climatologists, even the skeptics, have conceded man is playing some role in warming. The extent to which man is responsible for the warming is up for debate.

 

No. It's not.

 

It's a total marketing scam. "We're green and we're awesome, so buy our stuff. :puke:"

 

The rules change all the time. It's either too hot or too cold. Too many hurricanes or not enough hurricanes. Too much ice or not enough ice. So when the term changes from global warming to climate change......

 

It's a focking joke. Why don't we just call it weather and be done with it?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

By the way, EVERYONE agrees that Global Warming is occurring. And EVERYONE agrees man has played some role in it.

 

 

Wrong and wronger.

[FlaHawker 24]

Alright, EVERYONE is a pretty broad term. I will say most climatologists, even the skeptics, have conceded man is playing some role in warming. The extent to which man is responsible for the warming is up for debate.

How about a link?

[FeelingMN 273]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/01/...lwarmingsurvey/

 

Human-induced global warming is real, according to a recent U.S. survey based on the opinions of 3,146 scientists. However there remains divisions between climatologists and scientists from other areas of earth sciences as to the extent of human responsibility.

 

 

Now, this is a bit of fear mongering from the Energy Sec.:

 

I don't think the American public has gripped in its gut what could happen," he said. "We're looking at a scenario where there's no more agriculture in California." And, he added, "I don't actually see how they can keep their cities going" either.

 

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wa...,0,567052.story

 

Could be doom and gloom. Could be a portent of things to come.

 

 

GW is a scientific debate. Each side might resort to hyperbole to get their points across. That's politics. And it's our civic responsibility to sift through the bullsh!t to figure out what's fact, and what's fiction.

 

Fear mongering doesn't afford such opportunity:

 

Vote Republican to keep America safe. Vote Democrat and the terrorists win.

 

Nothing to research. Nothing to contemplate. The decision is based on an emotional reaction. And that's fear mongering 101.

[Franknbeans 46]

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[gocolts 300]

How is global warming fear mongering? I agree they politicize the issue to their benefit, but it's really not any different than pro-choice or gay rights. It's just a point of distinction between the left and the right.

 

Fear mongering is what happened ALOT in the '04 election. Did the Republicans run on a platform of homeland security? Yep. And a lot of their campaigns focused on their 'abilities' to keep America safe, implying a vote for Democrats would be a vote against safety. That's blatant fear mongering.

 

IF the Dems used GW to rouse fear in the populace, they'd draw contrast between themselves and the Right regarding the issue: if you don't vote Dem., the world is gonna fry in the next century. I've never heard this. I have heard Dems broach the issue. I've heard McCain and Bush address it as well. None of them has ever said 'If you don't vote for me, the world will fry.'

 

By the way, EVERYONE agrees that Global Warming is occurring. And EVERYONE agrees man has played some role in it. Differences arise in the relative man made contributions. Fine. I can live with that. Do more research. Initiate further discussion. But to play it off as a scam is to commit the same mistake as the environmental zealots who screech the world will end if we don't start shut down all the factories and stop driving cars: to act indifferently in face of the available evidence.

 

And the economy is in dire condition. That is a fact. Are we gonna go Mad Max? Prolly not. But everyone agrees we're on dangerous footing economically. The difference lies in how best to mete out aid. I will agree with you that Obama spikes his words for effect. But that's politics....as usual. Fear mongering would say 'Me and the Dems have a way to save you. The Reps are against this, so they don't care if you lose your home.' That's not exactly what he's saying. I hear him just explaining the situation, albeit embellished to ensure there's support for his stimulus package. And his point seems to be more in getting something passed quick, than getting this bill passed.

 

Just quit listening to Michael Savage and you won't see things so black and white.

Look man, I was not trying to hijack this into a GW thread. I think most of your post is way over the top regarding GW. We can just agree to disagree on that for the sake of the thread. I was simply pointing out things that the democrats use for fear mongering. You evidently don't like that. Just because you don't think that it was as much fear mongering as Bush used in 2004 doesn't make it so. Gore has said we are in grave danger with this supposed crisis. Sounds like fear mongering to me.

 

As far as listening to Savage goes, you have got your wish. I will no longer listen to him. The radio station that caries him just replaced him with focking Glen Beck yesterday.

[posty 2,822]

It is getting serious...

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090205/ap_on_...ss_stimulus_126

 

"This recession might linger for years. Our economy will lose 5 million more jobs. Unemployment will approach double digits. Our nation will sink deeper into a crisis that, at some point, we may not be able to reverse,"

 

We will be better off doing nothing...