Pierre Thomas

[Laurence Maroney's Nuts 2]

Haven't seen any mention of teams being interested in Pierre Thomas, save for an article that mentions the 49ers...

 

Guy can run / catch and break plays.

 

Some injury risk I suppose, and maybe teams think he's a product of the Saints' system???

 

He would've been a nice fit in SD, no? Not gonna happen now that they paid a hefty price to keep Sproles, but jus sayin.

[doughboys_2002 11]

The reality is NO wouldn't part with him...They would easily match any offer for him. Until Hammy can prove himself, Thomas is not expendable. Plus Bush can't run up the middle, to much of a chicken, so he is a situational player.

 

With them letting Bell go, it made a statement towards there stance on Thomas, no one will make a better offer than NO.

 

Besides Fargas is out there and no one has signed him yet, I think a lot of teams feel there is some talent to be had in the draft and they would rather take there chance there!

[Raider 84 29]

I agree that the Saints won't let him go. The Saints need him and he is a valuable piece of the Saints success.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,920]

I still can't believe a team hasn't made a move to get him. He is a really good back that is flying under the radar. He is the best screen pass running back in the league without question. Look what he did in the playoffs.

[MDC 5,895]

PT is a good player and he impressed me a lot in the playoffs, but he was part of a 3-man RBBC and didn't even lead his team in carries. A 2nd round pick is a lot to give up for a guy who probably isn't going to shoulder the load as a featured back.

[kmbryant09 1]

The reality is NO wouldn't part with him...They would easily match any offer for him. Until Hammy can prove himself, Thomas is not expendable. Plus Bush can't run up the middle, to much of a chicken, so he is a situational player.

 

With them letting Bell go, it made a statement towards there stance on Thomas, no one will make a better offer than NO.

 

Besides Fargas is out there and no one has signed him yet, I think a lot of teams feel there is some talent to be had in the draft and they would rather take there chance there!

 

 

I agree that the Saints won't let him go. The Saints need him and he is a valuable piece of the Saints success.

If this is the case - why not make an offer to him??? What's the worst that happens...you end up paying an extra million or two for a solid, versatile, proven RB. You make him a lucrative offer, if the Saints don't match it...you've got a top20 RB in the NFL. If they match it? Well you've made the defending champs spend extra money to keep one of their own.

 

Pierre Thomas could be a solid RB for almost any team. Yes he definitively helps the Saints, but in their multi-back, spread offense that focuses on the passing game, he's a bit under utilized. Not saying it's the Saints fault, but he'd be worth a lot more to a team like the Raiders, Eagles, Chargers, Seahawks, etc. And I'm surprised none of those teams have made an offer...

[doughboys_2002 11]

If this is the case - why not make an offer to him??? What's the worst that happens...you end up paying an extra million or two for a solid, versatile, proven RB. You make him a lucrative offer, if the Saints don't match it...you've got a top20 RB in the NFL. If they match it? Well you've made the defending champs spend extra money to keep one of their own.

 

Pierre Thomas could be a solid RB for almost any team. Yes he definitively helps the Saints, but in their multi-back, spread offense that focuses on the passing game, he's a bit under utilized. Not saying it's the Saints fault, but he'd be worth a lot more to a team like the Raiders, Eagles, Chargers, Seahawks, etc. And I'm surprised none of those teams have made an offer...

In an uncapped year why would making a team spend a little extra money make sense? All the Saints have to do is offer him a front loaded deal and they would be good to go...So why would other teams even waste there time when they are other players out there and the draft comming up?

 

Not very well thought out!

[kmbryant09 1]

In an uncapped year why would making a team spend a little extra money make sense? All the Saints have to do is offer him a front loaded deal and they would be good to go...So why would other teams even waste there time when they are other players out there and the draft comming up?

 

Not very well thought out!

Uhhh no - I'm talking about another team coming in and offering that exact contract. Load the contract up in the first year or two, but make an offer that will be tough for the Saints to match. I know it's an uncapped year, but we've already seen that some/most owners won't go crazy with their spending money...Say the market value for Thomas would be 2 years, $10 million contract. So offer him 3 years, $20 million, with a lot of guaranteed money. Would the Saints match it? I doubt it - in which case you overpaid slightly in an uncapped year for a very, very solid, proven, versatile RB. If the Saints do match it, well then you lose nothing, and the Saints hafta spend more money.

[Chronic Husker 85]

I think a lot of it boils down to this being a deep draft. Nobody wants to part with their 2nd and 3rd rounders this year.

 

Another thing to consider is salaries. It's pretty easy to draft a RB late that can put up good rookie numbers at low cost. Happens every year. Why spend money on a RB when they can be found on the cheap?

[ratbastard1 0]

His injury history, big weight when evaluating his worth.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Uhhh no - I'm talking about another team coming in and offering that exact contract. Load the contract up in the first year or two, but make an offer that will be tough for the Saints to match. I know it's an uncapped year, but we've already seen that some/most owners won't go crazy with their spending money...Say the market value for Thomas would be 2 years, $10 million contract. So offer him 3 years, $20 million, with a lot of guaranteed money. Would the Saints match it? I doubt it - in which case you overpaid slightly in an uncapped year for a very, very solid, proven, versatile RB. If the Saints do match it, well then you lose nothing, and the Saints hafta spend more money.

 

You don't even have to do that. You can put in a poison pill in the contract that makes it almost impossible for NO to match.

 

For example:

- SD offers him a contract with a bonus of $10M if he plays in 4 games in Louisiana during 2010.

[kmbryant09 1]

You don't even have to do that. You can put in a poison pill in the contract that makes it almost impossible for NO to match.

 

For example:

- SD offers him a contract with a bonus of $10M if he plays in 4 games in Louisiana during 2010.

That can't be legal...Well, I could see it being a legal clause, but I can't see New Orleans having to match that. It's like incentives - If Team A offers a 2 year/$10 million contract with $50 million in incentives, I'm pretty sure the Saints only need to match the 2 year/$10 million part of the deal.

 

Don't quote me, cause I'm not sure, but I can't imagine that scenario you mention being plausible.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

That can't be legal...Well, I could see it being a legal clause, but I can't see New Orleans having to match that. It's like incentives - If Team A offers a 2 year/$10 million contract with $50 million in incentives, I'm pretty sure the Saints only need to match the 2 year/$10 million part of the deal.

 

Don't quote me, cause I'm not sure, but I can't imagine that scenario you mention being plausible.

 

I would suggest you look at the cases of Steve Hutchinson and Nate Burleson because this can happen and it has happened.

[Phurfur 70]

I would suggest you look at the cases of Steve Hutchinson and Nate Burleson because this can happen and it has happened.

 

The 4 games in XXX city would not be approved by the NFL, Huch's deal was different.

 

Hutchinson signed a controversial offer sheet from the Vikings, for $49 million over seven years, believed to be the richest contract ever offered a guard. The offer sheet, though, contained a poison pill provision that would have guaranteed his entire salary if he was not the highest-paid lineman on the team.

 

I believe this was poison for Seattle because they had a tackle making more money. I think it was Walter Jones.

[jgcrawfish 232]

The 4 games in XXX city would not be approved by the NFL, Huch's deal was different.

 

Hutchinson signed a controversial offer sheet from the Vikings, for $49 million over seven years, believed to be the richest contract ever offered a guard. The offer sheet, though, contained a poison pill provision that would have guaranteed his entire salary if he was not the highest-paid lineman on the team.

 

I believe this was poison for Seattle because they had a tackle making more money. I think it was Walter Jones.

 

The 4 games in (insert city here) is legal, or (insert state here), or whatever. Poison pill isn't used because the teams and owners choose not to use it, because they know it's a dirty, underhanded way to do business. The Hutch thing, if I recall, was personal issues between the Seattle GM and Hutch. The Burleson thing was a retaliation for Minny doing it. The owners don't do it because they don't want it done to them, but there was some talk of it again this year regarding Miles Austin of the Cowboys. I'm sorry, but with the league entering an uncapped year next year (which will be even more cut-throat) and with a lockout looming the following season, if I were a rich owner, I'd be using the poison pill to get the players that I thought could win me a championship now.

 

Jerry Jones wades into "poison pill" minefield

 

Posted by Mike Florio on March 9, 2010 9:49 PM ET

 

As concerns of collusion claims by the NFLPA hover over the still-fledgling free-agency period, there's a 600-pound elephant in the room. Which actually is sort of svelte for an elephant.

 

The poison pill.

 

Four years ago, the Vikings concocted a fairly simple procedure for crafting an offer sheet that, as a practical matter, couldn't be matched based on factors that would make the full value of the deal guaranteed in his current city. The league fought the process, the union supported the device as a tool for promoting the ability of players to move from team to team, and the labor deal ultimately was interpreted as permitting the poison-pill process.

 

In the end, guard Steve Hutchinson left Seattle and headed to Minnesota.

 

The Seahawks responded by doing the same thing to the Vikings, securing receiver Nate Burleson, a restricted free agent at the time, with an offer sheet that the Vikings could not match.

 

When the 32 teams convened at league meetings later that same month, the Vikings were met with animosity. Then, the NFL tried to write the poison-pill process out of the CBA. But a deal could not be reached.

 

Through the passage of time, many (including some media members) have assumed that the poison-pill is no longer a viable tool for use in offer sheets. The truth is that it remains on the books, and that the union is likely poised to pitch a fit if it's not used in any offer sheets signed by 2010 restricted free agents.

 

Teams vulnerable to a poison-pill attack include the Cowboys, who have tendered restricted free agent receiver Miles Austin at the highest possible level, requiring compensation in the amount of a first-round pick and a third-round pick if Dallas opts not to match. And owner Jerry Jones apparently is nervous about the possibility that someone will make Miles Austin an offer that the Cowboys can't match.

 

"That's always a concern and that's one of the things that needs to be addressed in the new collective bargaining agreement," Jones said Tuesday, per Todd Archer of the Dallas Morning News. "Those are called unintended consequences there. What turns into trying to be competitive among clubs and what turns into trying to be fair for a player turns into being a disadvantage for the clubs."

 

Here's the problem, as we see it. By acknowledging the ongoing viability of the poison pill, Jones has now made it even harder for teams not to use it. The players won this battle four years ago, the owners failed to offer a sufficient concession at the time to make it go away, and no team has used it since then in signing players to offer sheets.

 

We're surprised that the union hasn't made an issue out of the situation in 2007, 2008, or 2009. We'll be shocked if the union looks the other way if teams fail to use the poison pill in any offer sheets presented to restricted free agents in 2010.

 

Then again, the hidden genius of Jones' remarks could be that he possibly has foreclosed teams from choosing to sign any restricted free agents to offer sheets, since his comments arguably now compel use of the poison pill. Though the union can still cry collusion if no RFAs are pursued, it will be very easy for teams to argue that they prefer not to sacrifice draft picks in what many regard as the deepest pool of incoming talent in years.

 

In the end, Jones won't have to worry about losing Austin -- or about being forced to sign him to a long-term deal.

[doughboys_2002 11]

Uhhh no - I'm talking about another team coming in and offering that exact contract. Load the contract up in the first year or two, but make an offer that will be tough for the Saints to match. I know it's an uncapped year, but we've already seen that some/most owners won't go crazy with their spending money...Say the market value for Thomas would be 2 years, $10 million contract. So offer him 3 years, $20 million, with a lot of guaranteed money. Would the Saints match it? I doubt it - in which case you overpaid slightly in an uncapped year for a very, very solid, proven, versatile RB. If the Saints do match it, well then you lose nothing, and the Saints hafta spend more money.

Uhh that is some of the most ignorant rational I have had the displeasure to read...What happens if the Saints don't match? According to your theory, the big hole, the other team would end up overpaying! Not very well thought out, I guess that is why you aren't a GM! The Saints only have to match the offer, if a team makes a large contract offer the Saints can either match or decline. If they decline, which if it is a large contract offer they probably would, then your plan backfires and the other team is holding the bag!

 

A 3 year $20 million contract is a 3 year $20 million contract, no matter who foots the bill!

 

But as I said before fairly deep RB draft class, and there are still some servicable RB's in FA.....

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

The 4 games in XXX city would not be approved by the NFL, Huch's deal was different.

 

Hutchinson signed a controversial offer sheet from the Vikings, for $49 million over seven years, believed to be the richest contract ever offered a guard. The offer sheet, though, contained a poison pill provision that would have guaranteed his entire salary if he was not the highest-paid lineman on the team.

 

I believe this was poison for Seattle because they had a tackle making more money. I think it was Walter Jones.

 

Read Burleson's deal. As a direct result of the deal offered to Hutchinson, the Seahawks offered a deal to Burleson that was based on games played in the state of Minnesota.

 

I gave you one example. There are many others that could be offered.

 

How about a deal that was based on the team that the player could not be traded to (Favre - Vikings)? Poison pill provisions happen and have happened.

[Phurfur 70]

Read Burleson's deal. As a direct result of the deal offered to Hutchinson, the Seahawks offered a deal to Burleson that was based on games played in the state of Minnesota.

 

I gave you one example. There are many others that could be offered.

 

How about a deal that was based on the team that the player could not be traded to (Favre - Vikings)? Poison pill provisions happen and have happened.

 

Yup, my mistake. I didn't look at Burleson's contract because he is Nate Burleson so who really cares. I am really surprised the NFL let this go through; to me it cheapens the entire process.

 

The contract given to Burleson had two vengeful poison pill clauses in response to the contract offered to Hutchinson. Firstly, it stipulated that if Burleson were to play five or more games in the state of Minnesota during any single season over the life of the contract, the entire $49 million would become guaranteed. Secondly, if Burleson were to earn more per year on average than all of his team's running backs combined, the $49 million would be guaranteed. Since the Vikings play half of their games at home in Minnesota, and their running backs combined earned less per year than the $7 million in Burleson's contract, Minnesota was unable to match it.

[kmbryant09 1]

Uhh that is some of the most ignorant rational I have had the displeasure to read...What happens if the Saints don't match? According to your theory, the big hole, the other team would end up overpaying! Not very well thought out, I guess that is why you aren't a GM! The Saints only have to match the offer, if a team makes a large contract offer the Saints can either match or decline. If they decline, which if it is a large contract offer they probably would, then your plan backfires and the other team is holding the bag!

 

A 3 year $20 million contract is a 3 year $20 million contract, no matter who foots the bill!

 

But as I said before fairly deep RB draft class, and there are still some servicable RB's in FA.....

I guess everyone keeps mis-understanding my point.

 

What's so bad about giving a PROVEN, versatile, VERY EFFECTIVE RB a big contract? I understand the RB class is deep, but I'll take Thomas over any of em with the exception of Spiller.

 

And yes I understand what happens if the Saints don't match a 3 year $20 million contract....yes you end up overpaying for Thomas, but we are in an uncapped year which allows owners to spend spend spend. Hell, if Chester Taylor can get a 4 year $20 million contract, then I don't think Pierre's what-if contract is really a bad deal for any team.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I guess everyone keeps mis-understanding my point.

 

What's so bad about giving a PROVEN, versatile, VERY EFFECTIVE RB a big contract? I understand the RB class is deep, but I'll take Thomas over any of em with the exception of Spiller.

 

And yes I understand what happens if the Saints don't match a 3 year $20 million contract....yes you end up overpaying for Thomas, but we are in an uncapped year which allows owners to spend spend spend. Hell, if Chester Taylor can get a 4 year $20 million contract, then I don't think Pierre's what-if contract is really a bad deal for any team.

 

Why overpay for a guy if you don't have to? Even though it is an uncapped year, that does not mean that teams don't have a budget. Also, just because the current season is not capped, that does not mean that next year won't be capped.

 

I agree that he is probably worth something, but giving him a big contract AND a 2nd rounder is too much when there are options in the draft this season that would be more affordable.

[Portis26 0]

I think the warning lights should come on since not 1 team made a play for him

[Raider 84 29]

Saints have had J. Lewis stop for a tryout. What does that say about Pierre? Jamal Lewis sucks.

[itsbigmoni 1]

Read Burleson's deal. As a direct result of the deal offered to Hutchinson, the Seahawks offered a deal to Burleson that was based on games played in the state of Minnesota.

 

I gave you one example. There are many others that could be offered.

 

How about a deal that was based on the team that the player could not be traded to (Favre - Vikings)? Poison pill provisions happen and have happened.

 

I don't think you can do it as a bonus though. There have been only 2 poison pill contracts and both made the whole contract guaranteed. I'm 99% sure you can't offer a regular deal, then add a 20 million bonus for playing 5 games in louisana. You are limited to guaranteeing the contract.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I don't think you can do it as a bonus though. There have been only 2 poison pill contracts and both made the whole contract guaranteed. I'm 99% sure you can't offer a regular deal, then add a 20 million bonus for playing 5 games in louisana. You are limited to guaranteeing the contract.

 

I don't know that it defines it in any manner. The only rules that I have seen are:

- Team A offers contract to player

- Team B has a right to match that offer

- If Team B does not match, then they get the pick(s) based on the tender

 

However, my point was that a team does not have to overpay for Thomas if they want him. They could just make it untenable for the Saints to match.

 

What no one has pointed out is that if you do a poison pill, then you open yourself to poaching by the Saints as payback somewhere down the line. Sort of a d!ck move, so you have to be prepared for the corresponding karma.

[itsbigmoni 1]

I don't know that it defines it in any manner. The only rules that I have seen are:

- Team A offers contract to player

- Team B has a right to match that offer

- If Team B does not match, then they get the pick(s) based on the tender

 

However, my point was that a team does not have to overpay for Thomas if they want him. They could just make it untenable for the Saints to match.

 

What no one has pointed out is that if you do a poison pill, then you open yourself to poaching by the Saints as payback somewhere down the line. Sort of a d!ck move, so you have to be prepared for the corresponding karma.

 

I think you would have to overpay to nab him. If you offer him a reasonable contract, the saints will match. If its slightly over paying, the saints will most likely match since its an uncapped year. I think there's sort of an unwritten rule agaisnt using poison pill. The last time it happened, the vikes did it, haws retaliated. Since then, no one has done it.

 

I don't get why you don't think a team would have to overpay. If say a team like the niners are willing to pay 3yr/20mil, why wouldn't the saints be willing to match? Its one thing if they would get a 1st/3rd or even jsut a first, but they only got him at a 2nd.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I think you would have to overpay to nab him. If you offer him a reasonable contract, the saints will match. If its slightly over paying, the saints will most likely match since its an uncapped year. I think there's sort of an unwritten rule agaisnt using poison pill. The last time it happened, the vikes did it, haws retaliated. Since then, no one has done it.

 

I don't get why you don't think a team would have to overpay. If say a team like the niners are willing to pay 3yr/20mil, why wouldn't the saints be willing to match? Its one thing if they would get a 1st/3rd or even jsut a first, but they only got him at a 2nd.

 

If the Saints match, you are out absolutely nothing. The Saints don't even want to extend him at the going rate and they are not too fearful of someone swooping in because they tendered him at the 2nd round tender. As such, you offer him a good contract, but you don't overpay. If the Saints match, then you still have that 2nd rounder, which you can use on someone younger and lower cost. Either way, it is costing the Saints more than they are paying him today.

 

As far as the unwritten rule on a poison pill, it was used in the Favre trade to the Jets.

[swamp dog 0]

there are rbs with more upside to be had with your 2nd round pick this year.

[Laurence Maroney's Nuts 2]

I just don't get it... draft picks are UNPROVEN commodities. Pierre has shown his skill set...

 

But as someone mentioned -- the fact no one has touched him does speak volumes.

 

Might he be a product of the Saints juggernaut system? I mean, hell, Mike Bell was productive there.

 

Are the Saints the new Broncos -- Can you put any slug in that offense and he'll look good????

[Yippie Skippy 0]

I still can't believe a team hasn't made a move to get him. He is a really good back that is flying under the radar. He is the best screen pass running back in the league without question. Look what he did in the playoffs.

 

Really without question?? Put Steven Jackson or Chris Johnson in place of Thomas and how do you think that they would of looked in that offense catching screen passes.

 

IMO, Pierre is between an average and good NFL RB who is not durable. He needs to put in one full season of not missing games due to injury to shake that tag.

 

If I were a GM I'd look at it like this. I'd prepare as if there was going to be a salary cap next season and a new CBA. There is a glut right now of RBs in the NFL, so it is not a position to overspend on. There are several rookie RBs worthy of a 2nd round selection who will cost the franchise tens of millions less than Pierre Thomas. That selection may even turn out to be better than Pierre and more durable.