IS Forte for D Will a good trade?

[Agame 2]

I have Forte and I'm thinking about trying to sell high before the week is out. Can I pull this of?

[Phil Simms 11 127]

its a good trade for the person getting Forte, yes.

 

It is a fair trade though

[The Unknown Poster 0]

No. Daniel Williams hasn't been productive since '02. Stick with Mike Forte.

[Sifu21 0]

Forte is getting more looks from the passing game and doesn't have to deal with a time share possibility, unlike Dwill. Keep Forte.

[Bones40 0]

Forte's value is much higher, especially from a PPR perspective. These two backs may end up with similarly solid numbers by years end, but Forte has much more upside and stands a far greater chance at putting up great numbers. I'd stick with Forte.

[Moemoney 8]

Stick with Forte. Dwill will getbinjured, as usual, by years end...

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Ha.......sheep. Forte instead of Deangelo. Seriously? Good luck with all that.

[Mike Nice 40]

Ha.......sheep. Forte instead of Deangelo. Seriously? Good luck with all that.

 

 

I agree i would take DWill over Forte in a heartbeat

 

 

I take that back in a PPR league i will take Forte

[pathman 0]

It's crazy how much things change after one week. Wasn't DW a late first early second round pick and Forte was a fourth round pick?

 

I would stick with DW. He did play the Lions. And it's not like he dominated them. He had two nice pass plays that accounted for 85% of his production. I know that can be said for every running back. Take away Chris Johnson and Jamaal Charles two best plays and they also would of had below average days. So I understand that. I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm not sold on Forte yet. I would of liked to see him get those yards through the run and not the air. His three chances from the one yard line and getting stuffed everytime didn't build my confidence.

[bugzy 1]

I'm planning on offering Forte to all the guys with top backs that under performed last week. maybe someone will bite.

[Runningriot1966 6]

I watched a replay of the game and Forte looked quick and explosive. Im kicking myself for not taking a chance on the guy, he went sorta late in both my leagues. No way I would trade him for Williams after seeing his game last sunday.

[nflsoup.com 0]

Its a fair trade, but I don't see a need to "sell high".

 

Carolina clearly isn't imposing their will through the air, and D Will DOES still have a timeshare to worry about. I know you're thinking to sell on Forte before he sucks or before Williams blows up, but it's very possible that neither of those happen.

 

Outside of Tampa Bay, its not like D Will has an easy schedule this year. And Forte has clearly shown that even when he's not running well, he can tear it up. He's obviously the more valuable back in PPR leagues, and its not even close, really.

 

The Bears offense will run through him more than the other receivers, as he's seen as a poor man's M Faulk.

 

I'd wait on this and stick it out with Forte.

[Bones40 0]

Ha.......sheep. Forte instead of Deangelo. Seriously? Good luck with all that.

 

Forte is clearly a better value, especially in PPR leagues. He had a "down" year last year because of injuries (knee, ankle, hamstring)and a very bad o-line. His rookie year he was lights out, second only to DWill in PPRs. Even with half of his time in the league (last year) being considered a "huge disappointment" by fantasy players everywhere, over his two year career he ranks third in yards from scrimmage in the NFL behind CJ and AP. He leads all running backs in receptions and receiving yards. That was before he got Martz as an OC. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you he's the new Marshall Faulk, but all signs point to him being a lot like that and his fantasy value being a lot like that.

 

Speaking of Forte's "terrible" year last year, and DWill being rated higher by "draft experts", lets take a look at why.

 

2009

Forte: 1400 total yards, 57 rec, 4 TD

DWill: 1369 total yards, 29 rec, 7 TD

 

Hmmm, instead of just parroting what some fantasy 'expert' said in your magazine, maybe you could look at those numbers and explain to me why you think DWill is so much more valuable than Forte this year. Basically, other than "wasn't DWill a high first rounder and Forte a 4th rounder" as an argument. What do you have?

 

I'd bet pretty much anything that, barring injuries to either him or DWill, he will outscore DWill by a fair margin. He will blow him away in PPRs.

[Matt Mueller 146]

So glad to hear everyone singing Forte's praises.

 

I have him in 2 12 team .5 ppr leagues matched with Foster and CJ2K.

 

I like my chances

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Forte is clearly a better value, especially in PPR leagues. He had a "down" year last year because of injuries (knee, ankle, hamstring)and a very bad o-line. His rookie year he was lights out, second only to DWill in PPRs. Even with half of his time in the league (last year) being considered a "huge disappointment" by fantasy players everywhere, over his two year career he ranks third in yards from scrimmage in the NFL behind CJ and AP. He leads all running backs in receptions and receiving yards. That was before he got Martz as an OC. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you he's the new Marshall Faulk, but all signs point to him being a lot like that and his fantasy value being a lot like that.

 

Speaking of Forte's "terrible" year last year, and DWill being rated higher by "draft experts", lets take a look at why.

 

2009

Forte: 1400 total yards, 57 rec, 4 TD

DWill: 1369 total yards, 29 rec, 7 TD

 

Hmmm, instead of just parroting what some fantasy 'expert' said in your magazine, maybe you could look at those numbers and explain to me why you think DWill is so much more valuable than Forte this year. Basically, other than "wasn't DWill a high first rounder and Forte a 4th rounder" as an argument. What do you have?

 

I'd bet pretty much anything that, barring injuries to either him or DWill, he will outscore DWill by a fair margin. He will blow him away in PPRs.

Deangelo played in 13 games last year, and one of those games he left in the 1st quarter because of injury and didn't return.

 

Deangelo had a 5.2 ypc average for 1117 yards on 216 carries. He had 29 receptions for 252 yards, an 8.7 ypc average. He had 7 TD's. All that was in 12 games and not even a full quarter of the 13th game. He played hurt most of the year as well.

 

Forte had a 3.6 ypc average for 929 yards on 258 carries. He had 57 receptions for 471 yards, an 8.3 ypc average. He had 4 TD's. He didn't miss a game.

 

Deangelo had a 13.8 fantasy points per game average in 2009. (Scoring per FFToday stats)

Forte had a 10.3 fantasy points per game average in 2009.

 

I don't play in any ppr leagues but I'd guess it would add 1 point per reception for both guys, right? So then if my math is correct, adding the receptions, it would have given....

 

Deangelo 15.9 fantasy points per game average.

Forte 13.8 fantasy points per game average.

 

Deangelo is more explosive based on his higher yards per carry/catch, and scores more TD's, giving him a higher points per week average.

 

You based your argument on 16 full games for Forte and 12 1/4 games for Deangelo. That's the problem.

 

 

ETA: You should wait until Forte plays someone other than the Lions before going too crazy about him.

[Puddleglum 0]

Deangelo is more explosive based on his higher yards per carry/catch, and scores more TD's, giving him a higher points per week average.

 

You based your argument on 16 full games for Forte and 12 1/4 games for Deangelo. That's the problem.

 

Ding ding ding ding ding! We have a winner.

 

Not to mention, you just saw the best game (fantasy scoring wise) of Forte's career, and almost certainly his best game of the season.

 

They might end the year with similar stats, but for the *next* 15 games, I'd take Williams for sure.

[Bones40 0]

Deangelo played in 13 games last year, and one of those games he left in the 1st quarter because of injury and didn't return.

 

Deangelo had a 5.2 ypc average for 1117 yards on 216 carries. He had 29 receptions for 252 yards, an 8.7 ypc average. He had 7 TD's. All that was in 12 games and not even a full quarter of the 13th game. He played hurt most of the year as well.

 

Forte had a 3.6 ypc average for 929 yards on 258 carries. He had 57 receptions for 471 yards, an 8.3 ypc average. He had 4 TD's. He didn't miss a game.

 

Deangelo had a 13.8 fantasy points per game average in 2009. (Scoring per FFToday stats)

Forte had a 10.3 fantasy points per game average in 2009.

 

I don't play in any ppr leagues but I'd guess it would add 1 point per reception for both guys, right? So then if my math is correct, adding the receptions, it would have given....

 

Deangelo 15.9 fantasy points per game average.

Forte 13.8 fantasy points per game average.

 

Deangelo is more explosive based on his higher yards per carry/catch, and scores more TD's, giving him a higher points per week average.

 

You based your argument on 16 full games for Forte and 12 1/4 games for Deangelo. That's the problem.

 

 

ETA: You should wait until Forte plays someone other than the Lions before going too crazy about him.

 

That's a valid point I suppose. DWill missed 3 games due to injury. But, I would argue that had the Bears had an RB like JStew to fall back on, Forte would have missed at least 3 games last year. That might not mean much, but the fact that he didn't miss any time, yet had significant injuries and continued to play at a much lower ability can help explain why he had a "down year". Could that make up for the 2 points per game he was below DWill last year? That's up to each to decide for their own. It also may be significant that Forte got better later in the year last year once he either healed a bit from his injuries or learned to play with them.

 

I don't know if you watched much of Forte his rookie season vs Forte last year, but he was a completely different back. Last year he seemed sluggish and slow, but still had good vision etc. His rookie year he looked explosive and fast. This year he looks even more explosive and fast and will benefit from the Martz system.

 

Regardless of all that, a banged up Forte in Ron Turner's system with perhaps the worst oline in the league put up 2 points a game less than DWill and outscored him for overall points.

 

DWill is in a significant timeshare, Forte is the man. DWill is on a young and pretty bad offense who defenses will stack the box against, Forte is on a good offense with an O Coordinator who loves him and is responsible for making Faulk into a fantasy god and a quarterback who will keep defenses honest.

 

I just can't see a good argument that supports your opinion that DWill is a better fantasy value.

[Puddleglum 0]

DWill is in a significant timeshare, Forte is the man. DWill is on a young and pretty bad offense who defenses will stack the box against, Forte is on a good offense with an O Coordinator who loves him and is responsible for making Faulk into a fantasy god and a quarterback who will keep defenses honest.

 

I find these claims suspect. Let us examine the evidence:

 

Here is Chicago's rank in yards per game from 2007-2009:

 

27,26,23

 

And now Carolina:

 

29,10,19

 

And finally, Mike Martz's teams 2006-2008:

22,19,23

 

So we can see the Chicago's offensive output has been consistently poor for 3 years running. Carolina's has been slightly better. And Mike Martz hasn't really done anything of note since the glory days in St. Louis. On what basis can we claim that Chicago's offense is "good" and Carolina's is "pretty bad", other than preseason hype and one game against one of the worst teams in football? After all, Carolina scored only one point less than Chicago, and they were playing a vastly superior defense.

[Phil Simms 11 127]

i think forte will have the better season when all is said and done, but i thought that before the week 1 games also.

 

Week 1 games plus common sense > spot player drafted

 

 

You cant look at week 1 and proclaim Forte is awesome and D Will sucks, maybe after 3-4 weeks. Right now i think they end with similar stats but Forte slightly ahead. I wouldnt trade Forte for Dwill but if you do i think you arent gaining or losing much.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

That's a valid point I suppose. DWill missed 3 games due to injury. But, I would argue that had the Bears had an RB like JStew to fall back on, Forte would have missed at least 3 games last year. That might not mean much, but the fact that he didn't miss any time, yet had significant injuries and continued to play at a much lower ability can help explain why he had a "down year". Could that make up for the 2 points per game he was below DWill last year? That's up to each to decide for their own. It also may be significant that Forte got better later in the year last year once he either healed a bit from his injuries or learned to play with them.

 

I don't know if you watched much of Forte his rookie season vs Forte last year, but he was a completely different back. Last year he seemed sluggish and slow, but still had good vision etc. His rookie year he looked explosive and fast. This year he looks even more explosive and fast and will benefit from the Martz system.

 

Regardless of all that, a banged up Forte in Ron Turner's system with perhaps the worst oline in the league put up 2 points a game less than DWill and outscored him for overall points.

 

DWill is in a significant timeshare, Forte is the man. DWill is on a young and pretty bad offense who defenses will stack the box against, Forte is on a good offense with an O Coordinator who loves him and is responsible for making Faulk into a fantasy god and a quarterback who will keep defenses honest.

 

I just can't see a good argument that supports your opinion that DWill is a better fantasy value.

Deangelo couldn't play last year, it's not because they had Stewart. He was legitimately too hurt to play.

 

Your post is just full of hypotheticals and assumptions.

 

Forte was not that far off last year from the numbers he posted the year before really. In 2008 he eeked out 1231 yards on 315 carries.....that's 3.9 ypc. In 2009 he had 3.6 ypc but didn't have the massive amount of carries as in 2008. It's not like he was so awesome in 2008, it's that they had a solid defense and played conservative as hell on offense using Forte like a rented mule. And he had more receptions in 2008 along with a yard less per catch at only 7.6. He had 8.7 yards per catch in 2009.

 

Deangelo has an average yards per carry of over 5 for his career. Forte has never even cracked 4 yards yet. Deangelo shares carries with Stewart and still outproduces Forte.

 

So far in 2010 Forte has 17 carries for 50 yards....2.9 yards per carry. 17 carries for 50 yards against the DETROIT LIONS! Do you realize how bad that is? He had a great day in the passing game and if you're a Forte owner you'd better pray that he stays that active in the passing game because history tells us the guy is a plodder. He's Eddie George in the last couple years of his career. 3 yards and a cloud of dust.

 

Deangelo plays on a team with a bad QB, but the OL is still pretty good. And the Panthers play in a notoriously bad rush defense division. You say Chicago is a good offense but I'd take a wait and see approach on that one. As I've mentioned before, they played the Lions...on their own turf in their home opener...and it took an idiotic rule for them to pull off the win. And oh yeah, Detroit didn't even have their starting QB for a lot of the game. How can you say Chicago has a good offense? Seriously.

 

I am not the believer that you are, obviously, in Forte. However Deangelo's numbers speak for themselves. The guy isn't a plodder, he's a game breaker. He has a much better chance of putting up huge numbers than Forte. Forte had a great fantasy score this past week, but I wouldn't plan on that being the norm. Unless there's some huge change or an injury, Deangelo will outplay Forte once again.

[Turducken 0]

its a good trade for the person getting Forte, yes.

 

It is a fair trade though

lmao. no it's not.

[swamp dog 0]

Forte's value is much higher, especially from a PPR perspective. These two backs may end up with similarly solid numbers by years end, but Forte has much more upside and stands a far greater chance at putting up great numbers. I'd stick with Forte.

 

forte=this year's ray rice. mark it down.

 

went in drafts about the same area that rice did in 2009. it's obvious after one game--and from martz has been saying--that forte will be a big factor in the passing game.

 

he may end up being the #1 rb in ppr leagues at the end of the year. dead serious. not because of his rushing stats--but because he's going to catch an utter shiatload of passes.

 

in other words, i wouldn't trade him.

[Phil Simms 11 127]

lmao. no it's not.

 

yes it is. LOL

[Puddleglum 0]

DWill is in a significant timeshare, Forte is the man. DWill is on a young and pretty bad offense who defenses will stack the box against, Forte is on a good offense with an O Coordinator who loves him and is responsible for making Faulk into a fantasy god and a quarterback who will keep defenses honest.

 

Just noticed the bit about timeshare. Honestly, you are really stretching things here. There's no doubt that Chicago will be passing to their RB's this year. But again, let's look at the facts:

 

Carolina Carries:

DWill: 16, Stewart: 5

 

Chicago Carries:

Forte: 17, Taylor: 9

 

Yes, Forte caught 7 passes, and that's great, but Chester also caught 3, bringing the total touch ratio to 2:1. They did not pay Chester to come in and ride the pine. Forte is not "the man", he is in a timeshare just like almost every other guy in the league. And yes, Forte got 24 total touches, 50% more than Williams' 16. But again, perspective here, they were playing the Lions, meanwhile Moore was doing his best Delhomme impression. All that said, seeing him more active in the passing game than Chester clearly makes him more valuable than where he was being drafted. The concern coming in was that Chester was going to get most of those touches.

[MDC 5,990]

Forte is on a good offense

 

No, he's not.

 

A good offense doesn't put up only 19 points against a woeful defense despite ringing up 463 yards and hold the ball for nearly 35 minutes. A good offense also doesn't allow 4 sacks to the Lions or turn the ball over 4 times.

 

This is a classic Mike Martz offense: totally inefficient with tons of meaningless yards and lots of sacks and turnovers. It's sometimes fun to watch and may be good for fantasy football teams, but it's far from a "good" offense.

[Maulers1973 117]

Oh geez, people. The Chicago O-line is bad. Cutler is prone to making bad decisions with the football. Do some research on Martz offenses not lead by Kurt Warner. Interceptions galore is what you get. Cutler is already an Int machine. So, how many carries is Forte going to get when the other team has the ball because Cutler will be throwing 2-3 int's each game. If you think he can make a year of it dumping to Forte, then you don't know NFL D-cordinators very well. Let's see how Forte does against the Packers and Vikings defenses.

 

Forte is better than Deangelo. That's laughable.

 

Now, I do think that Forte is a good back. On a team with a good o-line like the Jets or Colts he would be flippin fantastic, but he doesnt.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Just noticed the bit about timeshare. Honestly, you are really stretching things here. There's no doubt that Chicago will be passing to their RB's this year. But again, let's look at the facts:

 

Carolina Carries:

DWill: 16, Stewart: 5

 

Chicago Carries:

Forte: 17, Taylor: 9

 

Yes, Forte caught 7 passes, and that's great, but Chester also caught 3, bringing the total touch ratio to 2:1. They did not pay Chester to come in and ride the pine. Forte is not "the man", he is in a timeshare just like almost every other guy in the league. And yes, Forte got 24 total touches, 50% more than Williams' 16. But again, perspective here, they were playing the Lions, meanwhile Moore was doing his best Delhomme impression. All that said, seeing him more active in the passing game than Chester clearly makes him more valuable than where he was being drafted. The concern coming in was that Chester was going to get most of those touches.

 

Something to note as well....I didn't realize Forte fumbled twice on Sunday, losing one. He fumbled 6 times last year as well. With Chester Taylor looming, Forte is not Adrian Peterson and does not have the luxury of putting the ball on the ground with no chance of losing time. Chicago could be fine with Taylor running the same routes as Forte. Meanwhile Deangelo has fumbled 5 times in his entire career. He takes care of the ball and will not be in danger of losing out due to turnovers anytime soon.

 

Just something to consider.

[bugzy 1]

has anyone mentioned Forte's playoff schedule? 14-16 - pats, vikings, jets... ugh

[Matt Mueller 146]

Pats don't scare me.

 

Vikes aren't a great matchup be he's a start imo.

 

Jets DO scare me.

[swamp dog 0]

has anyone mentioned Forte's playoff schedule? 14-16 - pats, vikings, jets... ugh

 

worry about making the playoffs first and then worry about the playoffs. i never draft with week 14-16 in mind. that's silly.