Defenses were not set up to stop passing when Marino broke record

[santa*69 0]

Where was the dime or the cover two. Look at the replays they keep showing of Marino from 1984. Yes the QB got hit the WR got hit but when you completed a 6 yard slant it went 70 yards. Nobody was set up to stop Marino. Somebody lined up in the slot and they had a LB trying to cover one of the Mark's down the field. All that works both ways. In any era Marino, Brees, Brady etc are great QB's. Everybody wants to be sentimental and anti records these days. He broke and who knows maybe Brady passes Brees next week. They were all great.

[murf74 461]

Where was the dime or the cover two. Look at the replays they keep showing of Marino from 1984. Yes the QB got hit the WR got hit but when you completed a 6 yard slant it went 70 yards. Nobody was set up to stop Marino. Somebody lined up in the slot and they had a LB trying to cover one of the Mark's down the field. All that works both ways. In any era Marino, Brees, Brady etc are great QB's. Everybody wants to be sentimental and anti records these days. He broke and who knows maybe Brady passes Brees next week. They were all great.

 

cause Brees never gets yards after the catch

 

Sorry, but defenses played the nickel and dime back in Marino's day too and long before that. Cover 2? You think that is a new D? The Steel Curtain had forms of that back in the 70s. Bud Carson also used it.

 

 

....but something I doubt Marino ran was a spread offense the likes of Brees enjoys. I was a young teenager when he broke the record so don't expect me to break down the gametape, etc.

 

also Marino didn't play with a TE who could play or lineup like a WR or a Sproles whose job is basically to be a WR out of the backfield.

 

I like Brees a lot but I think you are way out of line diminishing Marino's record cause you think football was played without scheme's etc. to stop the pass, etc. I think you are mistaking the early 80s for a time when the QB wore #63 and had no facemask.

 

I think the biggest indicator that this year is easier to pass than it was back then is look at the other leading QBs in the league. there was only one other QB over 4,500 yards that year. This year with another game to go there are FIVE! And Brady is probably going to go over 5,000 yards. In 1984 there were 3 players to throw over 4,000 yards, this year I am willing to bet after week 17 there will be 10 (if Ben plays a full game).

[R8RMick 242]

For all of Marino's great accomplishments, and as a Raider fan I've seen plenty, by far his most outstanding moment was when he fileted the vaunted 46 defense of the Bears on a Monday night in 1985. That handed fat Buddy Ryan his only piece of humble pie and the Bears their only loss of the season. Even Ditka said, the only way to beat his team was to spread them out.

 

But only Marino and that quick delivery could do it.

 

BTW, on Brees, I've never seen a QB pick out and find the single covered reciever as well as Drew Brees. Never fails, he's always throwing into single coverage.

[sirensong 111]

 

Sorry, but defenses played the nickel and dime back in Marino's day too and long before that. Cover 2? You think that is a new D?

 

agreed--we were running cover 2 in high school in 1986--the defense was that well established. as were extra DB packages (though the dime wasn't terribly popular).

 

actually, marino was operating in a much more difficult environment for the passing game, since the officials were far more permissive of aggressive hits on the QB as well as contact by defensive backs. i don't say this to cheapen brees' achievement, but for someone to argue that brees has it tougher than marino did is just silly.

[Portis26 0]

The record stood for 25 + yrs. if it was so easy to break, why did it take so long.

[JT 137]

Where was the dime or the cover two. Look at the replays they keep showing of Marino from 1984. Yes the QB got hit the WR got hit but when you completed a 6 yard slant it went 70 yards. Nobody was set up to stop Marino. Somebody lined up in the slot and they had a LB trying to cover one of the Mark's down the field. All that works both ways. In any era Marino, Brees, Brady etc are great QB's. Everybody wants to be sentimental and anti records these days. He broke and who knows maybe Brady passes Brees next week. They were all great.

 

Please share more of your insights into how the game was played long before you watched it.

[Boilermaker04 11]

To say the game hasn't changed to make passing more favorable is just kind of silly...unless you don't actually watch the games. Marino was/is amazing. The game has changed to make passing easier, but its taken some of the best QBs in the last two decades to even approach Marino's record, let alone break it. It was an incredible feat. I'd argue it was the 3rd most impressive pro stat, behind DiMaggio's hit streak and Favre's consecutive starts. Cheers to Brees/Brady for breaking it this season, but trying to diminish Marino is ignorant.

[Law 220]

WOW! I think santa's trying to give us a late present of the dumbest post of the year!

Never too late to get those entries in!!

 

 

 

As for Brady maybe passing Brees this week, that will be hard unless Brees sits at some point. Brees is up 190 yards. That's at least half a game. It's not impossible, nothing is with stat hoo-oar Brady, but not very likely.

[nobody 2,044]

For what it's worth there was no such thing as a zone blitz in 1984

[sirensong 111]

For what it's worth there was no such thing as a zone blitz in 1984

 

not the best of sources, but...

 

"Miami Dolphins defensive coach Bill Arnsparger developed the zone blitz in 1971. He started by placing linebackers on the defensive line and having them drop back into coverage, and eventually included regular defensive linemen as well."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_blitz

[murf74 461]

For what it's worth there was no such thing as a zone blitz in 1984

Link?

[RoadLizard 73]

Its fair to at least say that defenses were allowed to do more back then though. You cant TOUCH a WR now and you cant TOUCH a QB either. Makes passing much easier overall. Some of that gets countered by better coverage schemes & better corners but overall I think its a little more pass-friendly these days.

 

Nothing against Brees - he got it and its 100% legit to me.

[jaxjag 43]

Where was the dime or the cover two. Look at the replays they keep showing of Marino from 1984. Yes the QB got hit the WR got hit but when you completed a 6 yard slant it went 70 yards. Nobody was set up to stop Marino. Somebody lined up in the slot and they had a LB trying to cover one of the Mark's down the field. All that works both ways. In any era Marino, Brees, Brady etc are great QB's. Everybody wants to be sentimental and anti records these days. He broke and who knows maybe Brady passes Brees next week. They were all great.

 

Further diminishing Marino's "mark" is that defenses were only allowed to use 7 players. Also, you could only blitz once every four downs and you had to scream "red dog" to let the offense know you weren't counting to 5 Missipippi.

[murf74 461]

Further diminishing Marino's "mark" is that defenses were only allowed to use 7 players. Also, you could only blitz once every four downs and you had to scream "red dog" to let the offense know you weren't counting to 5 Missipippi.

One Mississippi ....ah memories

[Thornton Melon 544]

Its fair to at least say that defenses were allowed to do more back then though. You cant TOUCH a WR now and you cant TOUCH a QB either. Makes passing much easier overall. Some of that gets countered by better coverage schemes & better corners but overall I think its a little more pass-friendly these days.

 

Nothing against Brees - he got it and its 100% legit to me.

 

The illegal contact rule came out in 1978 and was strictly enforced from the get go. QB protection rules started coming out in the early 80s. But yes, it is more pass friendly these days. I think it's just that players are bigger and quicker so defenses are more suited to stopping the run - offenses are more pass oriented out of necessity.

[Dan 59]

The illegal contact rule came out in 1978 and was strictly enforced from the get go. QB protection rules started coming out in the early 80s. But yes, it is more pass friendly these days. I think it's just that players are bigger and quicker so defenses are more suited to stopping the run - offenses are more pass oriented out of necessity.

 

Oh, stop now. It was enforced initially, and then let go to be very loose. It was nowhere near as strict as it now, in large thanks to the Patriots, who stretched the NFL's leniency to its limit in 2003. After that, the rule was reinforced, drilled home, and then buffed by additional rules to hamper and restrict defenses, resulting in the offensive free-for-all that the NFL has become.

[Thornton Melon 544]

Oh, stop now. It was enforced initially, and then let go to be very loose. It was nowhere near as strict as it now, in large thanks to the Patriots, who stretched the NFL's leniency to its limit in 2003. After that, the rule was reinforced, drilled home, and then buffed by additional rules to hamper and restrict defenses, resulting in the offensive free-for-all that the NFL has become.

 

My post was a response to Roadlizard, basically saying that defenders back in 1984 couldn't get away with as much as he might think. I'm talking about 1984, and you're talking about 2003.

 

In 1984, the illegal contact rule was STILL being strictly enforced, and QB protection rules were coming into play. In addition, the offensive holding rules were relaxed in the early 80s to allow O-lineman more use of the hands. Don Shula, being on the rules committee, was the best at knowing what his team could and couldn't get away with in terms of pass blocking, (and penalties in general).

 

With the crackdown on headshots, hits on defenseless receivers, etc, yeah, defenders today are more restricted. My point was Marino in 1984, besides having great natural ability, had some favorable conditions to work with himself.

[chroniciguana 13]

Found this nugget in a Bill Simmons column:

 

"When Dan Marino threw for 5,084 yards in 1984, you were allowed to (a) pummel the QB every chance you had, ( dive at the QB's knees as he was throwing the ball, © crush any receiver coming over the middle, and (d) jam receivers at the line by any means necessary, even if you had to use a crowbar or a chainsaw. It was impossible to throw for 5,000 yards back then. Only two other 1984 QBs cracked 4,000 yards (Neil Lomax and Phil Simms); nobody else cracked 3,800 yards; and only five guys even attempted 500+ passes (Marino's 564 was the highest)."

 

In my advanced years I'd forgotten we were fair game until the ball left the QB's hands. And that just about everything short of manslaughter was allowed anywhere on the field, not just the first five yards. You didn't run a crossing pattern unless the QB administered last rites in the huddle. If a Wes Welker played back then, he would have ended his career taking nourishment through a tube.

[Gephardt69 0]

Brees is an awesome QB, no doubt about it. However, if no one breaks a record for 25 years, and then a multiple players either break it or come close all in the same year, it's probable there's something else going on. I wish I'd thought of that principle during the 1998 baseball season but that's another story. Teams with kickass TEs just abused the middle of defenses this year, and the Saints just happen to have a kickass TE.

[JT 137]

Further diminishing Marino's "mark" is that defenses were only allowed to use 7 players. Also, you could only blitz once every four downs and you had to scream "red dog" to let the offense know you weren't counting to 5 Missipippi.

 

And they had to play in dress shoes.

[JT 137]

Brees is an awesome QB, no doubt about it. However, if no one breaks a record for 25 years, and then a multiple players either break it or come close all in the same year, it's probable there's something else going on. I wish I'd thought of that principle during the 1998 baseball season but that's another story. Teams with kickass TEs just abused the middle of defenses this year, and the Saints just happen to have a kickass TE.

 

12 of the top 20 seasons all time happened within the last 10 years. It's not like Brees and Brady came out of nowhere this season to challenge the mark. Warner, Peyton Manning, Rodgers, Schaub, Brady and Brees have all threatened it in recent years.

[Thornton Melon 544]

Found this nugget in a Bill Simmons column:

 

"When Dan Marino threw for 5,084 yards in 1984, you were allowed to (a) pummel the QB every chance you had, ( dive at the QB's knees as he was throwing the ball, © crush any receiver coming over the middle, and (d) jam receivers at the line by any means necessary, even if you had to use a crowbar or a chainsaw. It was impossible to throw for 5,000 yards back then. Only two other 1984 QBs cracked 4,000 yards (Neil Lomax and Phil Simms); nobody else cracked 3,800 yards; and only five guys even attempted 500+ passes (Marino's 564 was the highest)."

 

In my advanced years I'd forgotten we were fair game until the ball left the QB's hands. And that just about everything short of manslaughter was allowed anywhere on the field, not just the first five yards. You didn't run a crossing pattern unless the QB administered last rites in the huddle. If a Wes Welker played back then, he would have ended his career taking nourishment through a tube.

 

All if this would be true if Simmons had been talking about 1974, not 1984. Yeah, there wasn't the head shot or defenseless WR rule, but did he forget the original "In the grasp" rule? Even QBs hated that one.