More patients packing Emergency Rooms under Obamacare than before.

[NewbieJr 541]

No, the argument that makes sense, and is happening, is trainees don't pursue primary care. But it ain't due to the ACA.

everyone except the usual Obama haters realize that. And they're not changing their minds. They're brainwashed lemmings.

[Googballz 39]

No, the argument that makes sense, and is happening, is trainees don't pursue primary care. But it ain't due to the ACA.

http://www.physicianspractice.com/blog/surveys-patients-coming-physicians-leaving-due-aca

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

 

1- How is an EMT's perspective skewed? They deliver the patients to the ER. They talk to the doctors and nurses. They see who is in the ER. That's their job.

 

2- My point about MRI's is that we are using them less now. There are fewer of them as their costs of usage and maitenance are very high. Which is causing people to wait longer to get them. That was never a problem before. It's an example. I read a story a few months back about a town in Canada that's citizens were complaining about the wait time for MRI's. They found out that they went from three MRI machines to one. And the neigboring towns didn't have any, so they were using theirs causing long log jams and doctors fighting with admistrators about which patients needed the MTI's.

1- EMTs deliver a minority of patients to the ED ~15% of patients IIRC. Theoretically they see both the sickest and the biggest abusers of the system, but not much in between.

 

2- My point is we should be using MRIs less - there is an unreasonable expectation to utilize technology that often has no impact on health care outcomes.

[jerryskids 7,085]

No, the argument that makes sense, and is happening, is trainees don't pursue primary care. But it ain't due to the ACA.

Do you think the ACA will help, hurt, or have no effect on this trend over time?

[penultimatestraw 473]

http://www.physicianspractice.com/blog/surveys-patients-coming-physicians-leaving-due-aca

Unless the ACA works through a time machine, it didn't cause the primary care physician shortage.

 

Also, your article says almost nothing about the ACA specifically, nor does it give actual numbers of physicians who have left the profession due to the ACA.

[Googballz 39]

Unless the ACA works through a time machine, it didn't cause the primary care physician shortage.

 

Also, your article says almost nothing about the ACA specifically, nor does it give actual numbers of physicians who have left the profession due to the ACA.

The questions were asked about future decisions looking through the prism of having to operate under the ACA. One has to do a minimal amount of extrapolation, so I can see why you are having trouble understanding the results. :wink:

[penultimatestraw 473]

Do you think the ACA will help, hurt, or have no effect on this trend over time?

Hard to say. There are financial incentives for primary care built into it, though they are not enough to offset reimbursement cuts and the huge disparity between pay for procedures versus cognitive work.

 

My best guess: the trend continues on about the same trajectory.

[penultimatestraw 473]

The questions were asked about future decisions looking through the prism of having to operate under the ACA. One has to do a minimal amount of extrapolation, so I can see why you are having trouble understanding the results. :wink:

It's a lot of extrapolation, as it is just a bunch of doctors worried about the future. Newsflash: doctors are neurotic, and fearful of change in general. Get back to me when a significant number leave their jobs as a direct result of the legislation.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Unless the ACA works through a time machine, it didn't cause the primary care physician shortage.

 

Also, your article says almost nothing about the ACA specifically, nor does it give actual numbers of physicians who have left the profession due to the ACA.

And that link is from an organization setting out to repeal ACA. I recall GP before going after people's sources...yet has no problem posting that as "proof".

[Googballz 39]

It's a lot of extrapolation, as it is just a bunch of doctors worried about the future. Newsflash: doctors are neurotic, and fearful of change in general. Get back to me when a significant number leave their jobs as a direct result of the legislation.

You could back up your position here if you had a similar survey before the ACA was a possibility that showed similar numbers saying they are considering leaving the profession.

[Googballz 39]

And that link is from an organization setting out to repeal ACA. I recall GP before going after people's sources...yet has no problem posting that as "proof".

They clearly point that out, and reference another survey from MDLynx that had similar results.

 

You should hang it up for the day.

[penultimatestraw 473]

You could back up your position here if you had a similar survey before the ACA was a possibility that showed similar numbers saying they are considering leaving the profession.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/11/17/primary.care.doctors.study/

updated 9:29 a.m. EST, Tue November 18, 2008

 

(CNN) -- Nearly half the respondents in a survey of U.S. primary care physicians said that they would seriously consider getting out of the medical business within the next three years if they had an alternative.

 

The survey, released this week by the Physicians' Foundation, which promotes better doctor-patient relationships, sought to find the reasons for an identified exodus among family doctors and internists, widely known as the backbone of the health industry.

A U.S. shortage of 35,000 to 40,000 primary care physicians by 2025 was predicted at last week's American Medical Association annual meeting.

In the survey, the foundation sent questionnaires to more than 270,000 primary care doctors and more than 50,000 specialists nationwide.

Of the 12,000 respondents, 49 percent said they'd consider leaving medicine. Many said they are overwhelmed with their practices, not because they have too many patients, but because there's too much red tape generated from insurance companies and government agencies.

And if that many physicians stopped practicing, that could be devastating to the health care industry.

"We couldn't survive that," says Dr. Walker Ray, vice president of the Physicians Foundation. "We are only producing in this country a thousand to two thousand primary doctors to replace them. Medical students are not choosing primary care."

Dr. Alan Pocinki has been practicing medicine for 17 years. He began his career around the same time insurance companies were turning to the PPO and HMO models. So he was a little shocked when he began spending more time on paperwork than patients and found he was running a small business, instead of a practice. He says it's frustrating.

To manage their daily work schedules, many survey respondents reported making changes. With lower reimbursement from insurance companies and the cost of malpractice insurance skyrocketing, these health professionals say it's not worth running a practice and are changing careers. Others say they're going into so-called boutique medicine, in which they charge patients a yearly fee up front and don't take insurance."I had no business training, as far as how to run a business, or how to evaluate different plans," Pocinki says. "It was a whole brave new world and I had to sort of learn on the fly."

And some like Pocinki are limiting the type of insurance they'll take and the number of patients on Medicare and Medicaid. According to the foundation's report, over a third of those surveyed have closed their practices to Medicaid patients and 12 percent have closed their practices to Medicare patients That can leave a lot of patients looking for a doctor.

And as Ray mentioned, med school students are shying away from family medicine. In a survey published in the Journal of the American Medical Association in September, only 2 percent of current medical students plan to take up primary care. That's because these students are wary of the same complaints that are causing existing doctors to flee primary care: hectic clinics, burdensome paperwork and systems that do a poor job of managing patients with chronic illness.

[Googballz 39]

Pre-ACA. 49%

 

ACA. 83%

 

Looks like we have our answer. :

[penultimatestraw 473]

They clearly point that out, and reference another survey from MDLynx that had similar results.

 

You should hang it up for the day.

Actually the MDLynx results weren't nearly as bad.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Pre-ACA. 49%

 

ACA. 81%

 

Looks like we have our answer. :

No, the point is doctors have been bitching about leaving for years, yet few of them do. Until you actually show numbers of physicians leaving due to the ACA, not those worried about the future of medicine or considering leaving it, the polls don't reflect reality.

[Googballz 39]

Actually the MDLynx results weren't nearly as bad.

They limited their question to "in the next year". If they don't put such a short time limit on it the number goes up.

 

Once again, one needs to be able to extrapolate.

[Googballz 39]

No, the point is doctors have been bitching about leaving for years, yet few of them do. Until you actually show numbers of physicians leaving due to the ACA, not those worried about the future of medicine or considering leaving it, the polls don't reflect reality.

 

The number bitching has skyrocketed due to the ACA. You claimed earlier the ACA has no bearing on those decisions.

 

Must be something else........

[NewbieJr 541]

The number bitching has skyrocketed due to the ACA. You claimed earlier the ACA has no bearing on those decisions.

 

Must be something else........

See earlier post regarding doctors and change. Bitching. lolol itsatip

[Googballz 39]

Bitching.

 

His word, Sport.

[MDC 7,887]

Good thing there are so many more doctors under the ACA.

[penultimatestraw 473]

The number bitching has skyrocketed due to the ACA. You claimed earlier the ACA has no bearing on those decisions.

 

Must be something else........

Also you have no idea whether their bitching is the direct result of the ACA, or the natural history of physicians' job satisfaction. Whatever the case, the actual number of physicians hasn't decreased.

[penultimatestraw 473]

They limited their question to "in the next year". If they don't put such a short time limit on it the number goes up.

 

Once again, one needs to be able to extrapolate.

How do you know it goes up or stays the same?

[Sho Nuff 720]

See earlier post regarding doctors and change. Bitching. lolol itsatip

 

And malpractice being the largest reason they were bitching according to the first link GP brought.

But does anyone here really expect him to admit he was talking out his ass?

Really?

[Googballz 39]

Also you have no idea whether their bitching is the direct result of the ACA, or the natural history of physicians' job satisfaction. Whatever the case, the actual number of physicians hasn't decreased.

The numbers say the ACA is impacting the thinking of physicians. You claimed it doesn't, but have nothing to back up that claim.

[penultimatestraw 473]

The numbers say the ACA is impacting the thinking of physicians. You claimed it doesn't, but have nothing to back up that claim.

No, I claimed doctors have been bitching for years, and there has been a primary care shortage long before the ACA. I don't know what impact the ACA will have on that shortage, though it wouldn't surprise me if some doctors leave the profession, while others fill the void.

[NewbieJr 541]

 

And malpractice being the largest reason they were bitching according to the first link GP brought.

But does anyone here really expect him to admit he was talking out his ass?

Really?

Google Pilot has 50.000 posts and has never been wrong once. Just ask him. ROFL

[Googballz 39]

How do you know it goes up or stays the same?

Common sense. If you ask a question and limit the time frame for their answer you will get fewer responses that fall into that time frame than you would without that time limit.

 

It's called critical thinking.

[Voltaire 5,491]

Doctors have been leaving their private practices for years and years, long before anybody heard of Obummer or Obummercare. I've known about this for years. That Obummer may have accelerated the trend, well probably, but in many instances there was already an eye towards the door anyways.

[drobeski 3,061]

Do they have to show id at the hospital?

[IGotWorms 4,063]

Doctors have been leaving their private practices for years and years, long before anybody heard of Obummer or Obummercare. I've known about this for years. That Obummer may have accelerated the trend, well probably, but in many instances there was already an eye towards the door anyways.

No, everything bad in the world today is Obummer's fault and Obummer's fault alone. Otherwise you're just an apologist

[Googballz 39]

No, everything bad in the world today is Obummer's fault and Obummer's fault alone. Otherwise you're just an apologist

I thought nothing was Obama's fault because he has no idea what is going on and only finds out about stuff on the news, and if you expect him to be informed on WTF his administration is doing you are a racist.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

I thought nothing was Obama's fault because he has no idea what is going on and only finds out about stuff on the news, and if you expect him to be informed on WTF his administration is doing you are a racist.

Obummer seemed to know bin Laden was dead before the news did

[Googballz 39]

Obummer seemed to know bin Laden was dead before the news did

Jarrett called him before MSNBC?