Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted February 4, 2015 Oh I understood that. But it seems like he is disagreeing that federal tax returns are protected by law? Which concerns me because isn't he an accountant? Talking in generalities about what sorts of things that he sees on tax returns is not a federal crime and it is not even unethical. He has used no names, no specifics and has not breached any confidentiality. Do you really believe that he has done anything even remotely wrong? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,058 Posted February 4, 2015 Talking in generalities about what sorts of things that he sees on tax returns is not a federal crime and it is not even unethical. He has used no names, no specifics and has not breached any confidentiality. Do you really believe that he has done anything even remotely wrong? Yeah read my last post. Seems you are misunderstanding me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bert 1,128 Posted February 4, 2015 Talking in generalities about what sorts of things that he sees on tax returns is not a federal crime and it is not even unethical. He has used no names, no specifics and has not breached any confidentiality. Do you really believe that he has done anything even remotely wrong? I don't think he believed that. I wasn't clear that I prepare returns on the side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted February 4, 2015 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpgpf.org%2Fbudget-explainer%2Ftaxes&ei=FjDSVKXwLIP6Us2wgbgO&usg=AFQjCNEqi2Cq7v3bTcQPoiXI5PXCwwDbew One of the most hotly debated issues of our time is the fairness of our federal tax system. But too often, discussions are clouded and confused because they focus on only one part of our federal tax system — usually the individual income tax — and ignore the fact that Americans pay many other taxes, such as the payroll tax, the corporate income tax, and the estate tax. To assess whether the tax system is fair or not, it is important to look at all of the taxes that people pay, not one particular form of taxation. Using this broader approach dispels two misconceptions that have emerged in recent debates about our tax system. The first misconception is that "nearly half of taxpayers pay no federal tax." While it is true that many people pay no individual income tax, even those who do not pay income taxes pay payroll taxes if they are working. In fact, taxpayers with the bottom 90 percent of incomes pay, on average, more in payroll taxes than in income tax. The second misconception is that high-income Americans face low overall tax rates because they receive most of their income from tax-favored capital gains and dividends instead of wages and salaries. That conclusion, however, does not account for the fact that high-income taxpayers bear a disproportionate share of the corporate income tax, which significantly raises their overall effective tax rates. The individual income tax is structured to be progressive in the sense that the effective tax rate increases as income rises. In 2014, the bottom 20 percent of taxpayers face an average tax rate of -4.5 percent, which is essentially a tax subsidy.1 The top 1 percent of taxpayers face an average tax rate of 24.6 percent. However, within each of these categories there is variation among individuals, and it is true that some taxpayers with extremely high incomes face lower effective rates because much of their income comes from tax-favored capital gains and dividends. There are some really good graphs in the link. Bottom line is for the majority, overwhelming majority of people the more money you make the higher your effective tax rate is. And the bottom 20% pay no federal taxes, all of their taxes is payroll taxes (OASDI and Med). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,058 Posted February 4, 2015 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpgpf.org%2Fbudget-explainer%2Ftaxes&ei=FjDSVKXwLIP6Us2wgbgO&usg=AFQjCNEqi2Cq7v3bTcQPoiXI5PXCwwDbew There are some really good graphs in the link. Bottom line is for the majority, overwhelming majority of people the more money you make the higher your effective tax rate is. And the bottom 20% pay no federal taxes, all of their taxes is payroll taxes (OASDI and Med). The issue to me is that if your income isn't from wages but rather comes from capital gains, then you end up paying much less (as a percentage). Since you have to have money to invest money, that means that the system heavily favors the rich. And not even the self-made millionaire for the most part - more the people who were born into a whole pile of money to start with. To me, wages should be taxed lower than unearned income since you had to actually work your butt off for your wages. However I do realize we don't want to stifle investment so I'm not really sure what the answer is Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenryHill9323 65 Posted February 4, 2015 The vast majority of the richest people in the country are self made. They didn't inherit their wealth. Gotta love libtard wealth envy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted February 4, 2015 The issue to me is that if your income isn't from wages but rather comes from capital gains, then you end up paying much less (as a percentage). Since you have to have money to invest money, that means that the system heavily favors the rich. And not even the self-made millionaire for the most part - more the people who were born into a whole pile of money to start with. To me, wages should be taxed lower than unearned income since you had to actually work your butt off for your wages. However I do realize we don't want to stifle investment so I'm not really sure what the answer is Even when Capital Gains was 20% its still much higher than 90% of the public's federal tax rate. It's lower than the upper percentiles, which is why they do it, but it's sitll much higher than the overwhelming majority of people. 25% Capital Gains tax seems like a good balance to me. I'm just not sure how anywone can say with a straight face paying 1/4th of your money to the government isn't fair when 95% of the American Public doesn't even come close to that. Just seems odd. And I'm all for a progressive tax system. where the rich pay most of the taxes, but sheesh it seems like we can only go to that well but so much. Spending has to be on the table, and it's not, at least not enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,368 Posted February 4, 2015 The vast majority of the richest people in the country are self made. They didn't inherit their wealth. Gotta love libtard wealth envy. Exactly what I was thinking. Jealousy is so pathetic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,058 Posted February 4, 2015 Exactly what I was thinking. Jealousy is so pathetic. No jealousy whatsoever. That's really a very infantile why of looking at it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MTSkiBum 1,620 Posted February 4, 2015 No jealousy whatsoever. That's really a very infantile why of looking at it I agree. Capital gains taxes should be as high as possible without stifling investment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bert 1,128 Posted February 4, 2015 I agree. Capital gains taxes should be as high as possible without stifling investment. Well that is the rub. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MTSkiBum 1,620 Posted February 4, 2015 Well that is the rub. I certainly do not have wealth envy. :edited: I just think the wealthy can afford to pay a little more on capital gains than what they currently do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frank 2,306 Posted February 4, 2015 It's almost time for people to start bragging about their refunds and for everyone else to call them stupid for giving the government a free loan. What do you think is the perfect refund amount? I say $500. Much more than that and the money could have been used or invested. Having to pay at the end of the year would be a bummer to most people. I'm getting a little under $1500. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baker Boy 1,699 Posted February 4, 2015 IRS Commissioner John Koskinen told Senators on Capitol Hill Tuesday that illegal immigrants granted amnesty by President Obama’s executive actions will be eligible for extra tax refunds for those years they worked here illegally. An estimated 4 million illegals, who have been granted deferred action from prosecution, could rake in billions of dollars in refunds by claiming Earned Income Tax Credits on amended tax returns going back up to three years after being granted new Social Security numbers, the Washington Times reported. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bert 1,128 Posted February 4, 2015 I certainly do not have wealth envy. :edited: I just think the wealthy can afford to pay a little more on capital gains than what they currently do. Oh I agree with you. The problem is trying to determine what that % is on long term capital gains. You also have to worry about some retirees getting hit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bert 1,128 Posted February 4, 2015 It's almost time for people to start bragging about their refunds and for everyone else to call them stupid for giving the government a free loan. What do you think is the perfect refund amount? I say $500. Much more than that and the money could have been used or invested. Having to pay at the end of the year would be a bummer to most people. I'm getting a little under $1500. owing $500. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,058 Posted February 4, 2015 It's almost time for people to start bragging about their refunds and for everyone else to call them stupid for giving the government a free loan. What do you think is the perfect refund amount? I say $500. Much more than that and the money could have been used or invested. Having to pay at the end of the year would be a bummer to most people. I'm getting a little under $1500. I don't sweat it if it's +/- a grand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted February 4, 2015 I don't sweat it if it's +/- a grand. Pretty much me. I look at it like the Price is Right. I try to get as close to zero without going over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted February 4, 2015 I would rather owe $1,000 than get $1000 back. Although, I usually do my taxes and then decide on what we will put into my wife's IRA based on the tax position. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 191 Posted February 4, 2015 The vast majority of the richest people in the country are self made. They didn't inherit their wealth. That's comedy gold right there! Gotta love libtard wealth envy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,368 Posted February 5, 2015 I did my taxes today. $4,200 refund, except I took out a $7,500 interest free loan from the govt. in 2008 when I bought my home so I am paying back $500 (even though the minimum payment due is $33) every year for 15 years, so $3,700, same as last year. Thank you fed and state govt. for saving me money, since I can't seem to do it on my own. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frank 2,306 Posted February 5, 2015 I did my taxes today. $4,200 refund, except I took out a $7,500 interest free loan from the govt. in 2008 when I bought my home so I am paying back $500 (even though the minimum payment due is $33) every year for 15 years, so $3,700, same as last year. Thank you fed and state govt. for saving me money, since I can't seem to do it on my own. I got the same $7500. I think if we had waited until 2009, it would have been $8000 and we wouldn't have to pay it back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,368 Posted February 5, 2015 I got the same $7500. I think if we had waited until 2009, it would have been $8000 and we wouldn't have to pay it back. I think you are correct. And I bought in Fall of 2008 so missed it by like 3 months. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,230 Posted February 5, 2015 I would rather owe $1,000 than get $1000 back. Although, I usually do my taxes and then decide on what we will put into my wife's IRA based on the tax position. Yes, but I would rather get back $1 over any other result. If you are getting back $1000 you have essentially given the government an interest-free loan of 1k for the last year. My level of discontentment with the government in general leads me to desire to help them as little as possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,058 Posted February 5, 2015 It's almost time for people to start bragging about their refunds and for everyone else to call them stupid for giving the government a free loan. Nailed it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frank 2,306 Posted February 5, 2015 I think you are correct. And I bought in Fall of 2008 so missed it by like 3 months. I bought in August. I don't remember knowing about the $8000 until 2009. I wonder when that was decided. If it was already scheduled to happen when I bought the house, I owe the realtor a punch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,230 Posted February 5, 2015 owing $500. Did you get a fine for that as well? Just curious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bert 1,128 Posted February 5, 2015 Did you get a fine for that as well? Just curious. A fine? No we did our return and I owe the IRS an additional $485. It is with in acceptable limits for under payment. I will mail them a check on April 15th. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted February 5, 2015 Yes, but I would rather get back $1 over any other result. If you are getting back $1000 you have essentially given the government an interest-free loan of 1k for the last year. My level of discontentment with the government in general leads me to desire to help them as little as possible. I like the government giving me an interest free loan of $1000 even more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted February 5, 2015 Unless you invest that 1000 bucks (loan) then whats the difference really? People think way to much about this. Set your exemptions about where you think you'll break even and then just file and either pay a very small amount or get a little check in the mail. Done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,230 Posted February 5, 2015 I like the government giving me an interest free loan of $1000 even more. No question, but I would rather have the money in hand, its a personal choice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
