Most overrated head coaches NFL

[Sho Nuff 720]

Hmmmm MCCarthy riding Rodgers coat tails? What say you slow nuff? That's your people saying that.

He sad he wonders.

He does not talk about McCarthy in several GC threads and venture to the main board to troll about him too.

[Brad GLuckman 519]

He sad he wonders.

He does not talk about McCarthy in several GC threads and venture to the main board to troll about him too.

Ya, to be clear I'm not saying McCarthy is a crap coach. I just wonder how successful he'd be without Rodgers. I am curious of the coach/QB dynamic in general.

 

While only having one Super Bowl appearance, they've been one of the most successful franchises in the league since TT and MM got there. I don't think there is some magic formula to win it all. I think you just have to work to build a consistent winner that gets to the playoffs every year, and hope for a couple breaks along the way. This is exactly what GB does and I'm happy with it. I think it's pretty normal to wonder how good the team would be without an elite talent at QB. Also, it's easy to downplay the role McCarthy may have played in Rodgers becoming an elite QB.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

Agree on Dungy, but didn't Gruden take two different teams to the SB?

No. He got the Raiders to the AFC championship and lost the tuck rule game to the Pats.

[mighty_thor 115]

I'm gonna' go with more of an "All Time" list and I'll give you 2 lists, one for most overrated, one for most deserving of their accolades.

 

Most Overrated (in random order)

Jerry Glanville

Mike Ditka

Mike Shannahan

Norv Turner

Tony Dungy

Jeff Fisher

John Gruden

Dan Reeves

 

Most Deserving of Accolades (in random order)

Vince Lombardi

Tom Landry

Bill Parcells

John Madden

Bill Belichick

Bill Walsh

Don Shula

Chuck Knoll

Paul Brown

Don Coryell

 

I'm sure it's debatable - lot's of older coaches I don't really know enough about to evaluate and I'm probably missing some off both lists. but these are the ones in my brain now/today.

I think Madden was a bit overrated. He took over a great team. They were like 12-2 each the previous 2 seasons and had been to a super bowl. Then he couldn't even get that great team to a super bowl. He finally won a super bowl and didn't do too much more after that. He did not coach very long at all. He was the equivalent of a bill cowher. Tom Flores took over the Raiders after Madden left with a 9-7 record. And in short order won 2 Super Bowls. Madden's Raiders were a tough but dirty team. The Steelers were just as tough as the Raiders but were more disciplined and better coached than Madden's Raiders.

 

The fact is that Al Davis was the brains of the Raiders in those years. Davis looked foolish at the end of his reign but he was a great football guy before senility set in.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

Madden was unlucky that he had to contend with the Steelers in their prime. Good, not great. The Immaculate reception didn't help matters. Bad break.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Ya, to be clear I'm not saying McCarthy is a crap coach. I just wonder how successful he'd be without Rodgers. I am curious of the coach/QB dynamic in general.

 

While only having one Super Bowl appearance, they've been one of the most successful franchises in the league since TT and MM got there. I don't think there is some magic formula to win it all. I think you just have to work to build a consistent winner that gets to the playoffs every year, and hope for a couple breaks along the way. This is exactly what GB does and I'm happy with it. I think it's pretty normal to wonder how good the team would be without an elite talent at QB. Also, it's easy to downplay the role McCarthy may have played in Rodgers becoming an elite QB.

Yeah, a fair thing to wonder. Is BB that great without Brady?

And I think both coaches played a role in the development of their qbs.

[mayhem39 3]

As a Packer fan, I wonder how good Thompson and McCarthy really are. A great QB can single-handedly make a team playoff caliber every year. Just look at Ken Whisenhunt with and without Kurt Warner. I wonder how many crap coaches stay on because of great QBs and how many good coaches get fired because they're forced to lead a team with guys like Weeden, Manziel, Gabbert, Ponder etc.

Maybe that is true, but to me the O-line is just as important, if not more important.

[jerryskids 6,954]

No. He got the Raiders to the AFC championship and lost the tuck rule game to the Pats.

Was that the Gannon era? That's the team I was thinking about. Regardless, he was a Patriot * away from two SBs with two teams.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

Another thing Madden had to contend with was that through the mid 70's the team with the best record didn't necessarily get a home game in the playoffs. They rotated them. The immaculate reception game would have been played in Oakland under today's rules.

[jerryskids 6,954]

Another thing Madden had to contend with was that through the mid 70's the team with the best record didn't necessarily get a home game in the playoffs. They rotated them. The immaculate reception game would have been played in Oakland under today's rules.

 

Really? I didn't know that. How did the rotation go? I forget how many divisions there were and how many teams made the playoffs back then.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

 

Really? I didn't know that. How did the rotation go? I forget how many divisions there were and how many teams made the playoffs back then.

It was just rotated on a yearly basis through the divisions. There were 3 divisions in each conference and one wild card. When the Dolphins had their undefeated season they had to go on the road and play the Sfeelers.

[mighty_thor 115]

Another thing Madden had to contend with was that through the mid 70's the team with the best record didn't necessarily get a home game in the playoffs. They rotated them. The immaculate reception game would have been played in Oakland under today's rules.

The Steelers had a better record than the Raiders in the year of the Immaculate reception. That was the same year that the Dolphins went undefeated. The Raiders never Played a playoff game in Pittsburgh in a year they had a better record than the steelers.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

The Steelers had a better record than the Raiders in the year of the Immaculate reception. That was the same year that the Dolphins went undefeated. The Raiders never Played a playoff game in Pittsburgh in a year they had a better record than the steelers.

I guess I mixed it up with the Dolphins having to play the steelers in Pitt whe they were undefeated. My bad.

[nzoner 937]

The big thing about Gibbs was he won all different ways with 3 different QB's. He coached in probably the best division of all time, against 2 HOF coaches. The detraction is he won 2 of his titles during strike years. But yeah, his teams were always sharp and ready to play. Won 3 out of the 4 Super Bowls he went to, with lots of different rosters. Yes, he was great.

It didn't hurt having John Riggins,that dude was a beast,his run in Super Bowl XVII was

[nzoner 937]

Yeah, a fair thing to wonder. Is BB that great without Brady?

 

BB was great in NY,Parcells was lucky to have him as a DC

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

BB was great in NY,Parcells was lucky to have him as a DC

They were both lucky to have LT.

[Cruzer 1,995]

BB was great in NY,Parcells was lucky to have him as a DC

True - but he wasn't a HC in NY... In the actual HC role - he was a miserable failure in Cleveland. And not just for a year or two, he had 5 full seasons - more than enough time to show what you actually are. His 1 winning season there? He followed it up with yet another 5-11 performance.

 

Did he all of the sudden find the "secret" in NE, or did Tom Brady arrive? I'm not taking a shot at him - I'm really not, but I do think it's a fair topic open for debate.

[nzoner 937]

True - but he wasn't a HC in NY... In the actual HC role - he was a miserable failure in Cleveland. And not just for a year or two, he had 5 full seasons - more than enough time to show what you actually are. His 1 winning season there? He followed it up with yet another 5-11 performance.

 

Did he all of the sudden find the "secret" in NE, or did Tom Brady arrive? I'm not taking a shot at him - I'm really not, but I do think it's a fair topic open for debate.

Oh there's no doubt that Brady has helped BB reach the pinnacle of coaching but couldn't we more than not find player/coach combinations throughout history we could say that about i.e. my comment about Parcells/BB and MB pointing out LT.

[Cruzer 1,995]

Oh there's no doubt that Brady has helped BB reach the pinnacle of coaching but couldn't we more than not find player/coach combinations throughout history we could say that about i.e. my comment about Parcells/BB and MB pointing out LT.

You could - but the NE example is exceptionally glaring... BB had 5 full years to show what he was in Cleveland - was a disaster. Then all of the sudden Brady shows up - Belichick not only turns it around, he instantly becomes a coaching juggernaut, reeling off 11, 12, 14 win seasons on a regular basis... That's almost the equivalent of a 15 handicap in golf all of the sudden showing up the next season playing to a 3.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

True - but he wasn't a HC in NY... In the actual HC role - he was a miserable failure in Cleveland. And not just for a year or two, he had 5 full seasons - more than enough time to show what you actually are. His 1 winning season there? He followed it up with yet another 5-11 performance.

 

Did he all of the sudden find the "secret" in NE, or did Tom Brady arrive? I'm not taking a shot at him - I'm really not, but I do think it's a fair topic open for debate.

If you look at BB's Cleveland tenure in just the W and L's, it might not tell the whole story. Just when he had gotten the ship right and turned in an 11-5 season in 94, Modell decided to announce he was moving the team in the middle of the season in 95. We will never know if they were on their way to something, but the arrow was pointing up before it was ruined by Modell.

[Cruzer 1,995]

If you look at BB's Cleveland tenure in just the W and L's, it might not tell the whole story. Just when he had gotten the ship right and turned in an 11-5 season in 94, Modell decided to announce he was moving the team in the middle of the season in 95. We will never know if they were on their way to something, but the arrow was pointing up before it was ruined by Modell.

Good points.... The flip side to that is, barring a catastrophic injury to your Qb - does a team as talented 11-5 all of the sudden do a 180 and fall to 5-11 all bcoz the owner pissed them off? I don't know - maybe. Seems hard to fathom though - talent is talent.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

Good points.... The flip side to that is, barring a catastrophic injury to your Qb - does a team as talented 11-5 all of the sudden do a 180 and fall to 5-11 all bcoz the owner pissed them off? I don't know - maybe. Seems hard to fathom though - talent is talent.

I don't know. But those are some hard circumstances to overcome. You can plan for an injury, but what went on there is like nothing else.

[Sho Nuff 720]

BB was great in NY,Parcells was lucky to have him as a DC

As a DC...but as a head coach?

McCarthy made Aaron Brooks offenses look good in NO.

[nzoner 937]

Good points.... The flip side to that is, barring a catastrophic injury to your Qb - does a team as talented 11-5 all of the sudden do a 180 and fall to 5-11 all bcoz the owner pissed them off? I don't know - maybe. Seems hard to fathom though - talent is talent.

Speaking of 11-5 any coach that can get that record out of Matt Cassel must be doing something right.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

Now that I think about it, BB had the greatest defensive player in history when he was coming up, and he's had one of, if not the, greatest QB's of all time. Nice. I still think he's a hell of a coach.

[Cruzer 1,995]

Speaking of 11-5 any coach that can get that record out of Matt Cassel must be doing something right.

After seeing him here, ha - you have a damn good point.

[MDC 7,642]

Anybody mentioned Marvin Lewis yet? I believe he has 13 seasons with the Bengals, 0-6 in the postseason.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Now that I think about it, BB had the greatest defensive player in history when he was coming up, and he's had one of, if not the, greatest QB's of all time. Nice. I still think he's a hell of a coach.

 

I think he is too...and I think the coaches have a lot to do with the success of some players.

 

Not that Brady or Rodgers or anyone with the talent would not be really good anyway...I think the right coach takes them to the next level and gets the most out of them.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

 

I think he is too...and I think the coaches have a lot to do with the success of some players.

 

Not that Brady or Rodgers or anyone with the talent would not be really good anyway...I think the right coach takes them to the next level and gets the most out of them.

Then that's why Pagano has to go. Not getting to the next level. I get that his GM and owner are idiots, but still. What's going on there is inexcusable.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Then that's why Pagano has to go. Not getting to the next level. I get that his GM and owner are idiots, but still. What's going on there is inexcusable.

 

No doubt...he has talent at QB...though, hamstrung a bit by having a GM who ignores the glaring needs and keeping his franchise player upright.

 

Im sure they wished they would have just kept Arians.

[mighty_thor 115]

It didn't hurt having John Riggins,that dude was a beast,his run in Super Bowl XVII was

Riggens only played on one of his super bowl winning teams. I believe Gibbs' Redskins are the only great team whose biggest star was the offensive line.

[peenie 1,944]

(it woulda been nice if you guys included the teams they coached....)

[MDC 7,642]

(it woulda been nice if you guys included the teams they coached....)

Everybody else here knows football

[peenie 1,944]

Everybody else here knows football

 

[nzoner 937]

Riggens only played on one of his super bowl winning teams. I believe Gibbs' Redskins are the only great team whose biggest star was the offensive line.

yeah that was why I referred to that Super Bowl and agreed The Hogs were

[GutterBoy 2,900]

On 11/5/2015 at 1:08 PM, Magnificent Bastard said:

1. Andy Reid.