Who was blackballed by MLB worse/more - Canseco or Bonds?

[edjr 7,038]

has to be canseco, he was 36, hit 15 dongs in 76 games the year before.

 

Bonds was 42, but still very productive 1.045 OPS @ age 42 and wasn't given a contract.

 

I stand corrected, the answer is Bonds

 

[Cruzer 1,996]

Hard to say... One thing that's not in question - Canseco at least admitted it.

[drobeski 3,061]

The fans, by them

[edjr 7,038]

Hard to say... One thing that's not in question - Canseco at least admitted it.

 

so did Pettitte, he only did it that one time. New York writers ate that sh1t right up!

[kilroy69 1,273]

Dude can you fit any more of Barry Bonds' c0ck in that mouth of yours? I somehow doubt it. You seriously are the biggest Barry Bonds homer I have ever seen in my life.

[edjr 7,038]

Dude can you fit any more of Barry Bonds' c0ck in that mouth of yours? I somehow doubt it. You seriously are the biggest Barry Bonds homer I have ever seen in my life.

 

he wasn't black balled? OOKKKAAAYYYY

[Mike Honcho 5,546]

has to be canseco, he was 36, hit 15 dongs in 76 games the year before.

 

Bonds was 42, but still very productive 1.045 OPS @ age 42 and wasn't given a contract.

 

I stand corrected, the answer is Bonds

 

 

You have mentioned this before, but I have to disagree. First Bonds at 42 was no longer worth starting as an outfielder and this limits him to be a DH in the AL. So A, you need to find teams that needed a DH. Sure, everyone would want that production, but at what price? Does the team have to eat the current salary of a DH, not all teams can afford to do that? And don't give me his agent said he would play for league min, agents can say anything and I find it hard to believe that Bonds would be okay with that. Don't forget, he was facing 14 counts of obstruction of justice from the DOJ, you sign Barry, and there was the possibility of him not playing the entire year and you would have passed on a DH who might have been available. Lastly, he would have been 43, you really want to count on a 43 year old player to run the bases and not get injured? Pass.

 

Bleacher Report: The 5 teams that could have used Barry Bonds the most in 2008

 

Fox Sports: ROSTERING BONDS JUST WASN'T WORTH IT IN '08

[Willis McGahee's Dentist 61]

No such thing as blackballing. Way too competitive. If a team thought it could get an edge by signing either one, they'd have been signed.

[edjr 7,038]

 

You have mentioned this before, but I have to disagree. First Bonds at 42 was no longer worth starting as an outfielder and this limits him to be a DH in the AL. So A, you need to find teams that needed a DH. Sure, everyone would want that production, but at what price? Does the team have to eat the current salary of a DH, not all teams can afford to do that? And don't give me his agent said he would play for league min, agents can say anything and I find it hard to believe that Bonds would be okay with that. Don't forget, he was facing 14 counts of obstruction of justice from the DOJ, you sign Barry, and there was the possibility of him not playing the entire year and you would have passed on a DH who might have been available. Lastly, he would have been 43, you really want to count on a 43 year old player to run the bases and not get injured? Pass.

 

Bleacher Report: The 5 teams that could have used Barry Bonds the most in 2008

 

Fox Sports: ROSTERING BONDS JUST WASN'T WORTH IT IN '08

 

who wants a guy with a 1.050 ops?

 

stop it.

 

 

 

Here's the full list of everyone who played more games at DH than any other position:

Rank Player Off Pos Field Total

1 Aubrey Huff 56 -14 1 42

2 Milton Bradley 50 -11 -4 36

3 Jim Thome 33 -13 0 21

4 David Ortiz 30 -11 0 19

5 Hideki Matsui 18 -8 -1 9

6 Jason J Kubel 23 -11 -9 8

7 Cliff Floyd 14 -6 0 8

8 Rocco Baldelli 5 -2 1 4

9 Mike Sweeney 4 -3 2 3

10 Greg Norton 3 0 -2 2

11 Jorge Velandia 1 0 1 2

12 Frank Thomas 7 -6 0 1

13 Kila K Kaaihue 1 -1 0 1

14 Gary Sheffield 10 -10 1 1

15 Jason J Bourgeois 0 0 -1 0

16 Chris Carter 1 0 -1 0

17 Ryan Roberts 0 0 0 0

18 Dan R Johnson 0 0 0 0

19 Randy R Ruiz 1 -2 0 -1

20 Freddy Sandoval 0 0 0 -1

21 Robinzon Diaz -1 0 0 -1

22 Matt Stairs 7 -8 -1 -1

23 Timothy C Hulett -1 -1 0 -2

24 Jeffrey Larish 1 -2 -2 -2

25 Jonny Gomes 2 -4 -4 -3

26 David Dellucci 5 -8 -1 -3

27 Billy R Butler 6 -10 -1 -5

28 Craig Monroe 0 -4 -4 -5

29 Travis Hafner -2 -5 0 -7

30 Jose Vidro -4 -7 0 -11

 

 

 

 

Look at that list of absolute studs.

Rocco Baldelli #8

[edjr 7,038]

No such thing as blackballing.

 

i've heard everything now

[giraldi02 476]

Pete Rose

[tanatastic 2,062]

If Edjr is slobbing Bonds knob, I am underneath working the ballz. I think Bonds is the GOAT by a decent margin, getting shafted by the league big time.

[Mike Honcho 5,546]

 

who wants a guy with a 1.050 ops?

 

stop it.

 

 

 

 

Look at that list of absolute studs.

Rocco Baldelli #8

 

Yup, go right to the 1.050, and ignore every other factor I listed, or in the articles. You go with your take, I'll go with mine. Good day....I said good day!

 

 

 

 

 

[posty 2,849]

If Bonds was blackballed by Major League Baseball, I doubt he would have been hired as a hitting coach...

[edjr 7,038]

 

Yup, go right to the 1.050, and ignore every other factor I listed, or in the articles. You go with your take, I'll go with mine. Good day....I said good day!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3rd highest OPS in the majors in 2007, behind aroid and papi.

 

honestly. Who would want that type of production?

[edjr 7,038]

If Bonds was blackballed by Major League Baseball, I doubt he would have been hired as a hitting coach...

 

McGwire was hired for christ sakes. the POSTER child for steroids

[posty 2,849]

McGwire was hired for christ sakes. the POSTER child for steroids

Duh, totally forgot about him with the Cardinals...

[Cruzer 1,996]

 

McGwire was hired for christ sakes. the POSTER child for steroids

So was Sosa... I know, bcoz we are the team that hired him. It was his last year in the league - he was 38.

[edjr 7,038]

Duh, totally forgot about him with the Cardinals...

 

even the baseball god of FFT can miss one now and then

[Mike Honcho 5,546]

 

 

3rd highest OPS in the majors in 2007, behind aroid and papi.

 

honestly. Who would want that type of production?

 

When I said "ignore every other factor I listed, or in the articles." I didn't think you would take me so literally.

[kilroy69 1,273]

That slurping sound you guys hear is Edjr slobbing bonds knob. Man is he going to a brick when Bonds never ever gets into the HOF.

[edjr 7,038]

 

When I said "ignore every other factor I listed, or in the articles." I didn't think you would take me so literally.

 

what is the #1 stat hitters are judged by today? and in 2007

[edjr 7,038]

That slurping sound you guys hear is Edjr slobbing bonds knob. Man is he going to ###### a brick when Bonds never ever gets into the HOF.

 

44.3% last year, up 8%

 

[Mike Honcho 5,546]

 

what is the #1 stat hitters are judged by today? and in 2007

 

We've been over this, I don't dispute he was a great hitter in 2007. I listed a few more considerations that teams had to look at that would have impacted the decision to sign him. Obviously, based on this thread, it seems you think those are not legitimate reasons and teams colluded against Barry. I disagree. The End.

[edjr 7,038]

 

We've been over this, I don't dispute he was a great hitter in 2007. I listed a few more considerations that teams had to look at that would have impacted the decision to sign him. Obviously, based on this thread, it seems you think those are not legitimate reasons and teams colluded against Barry. I disagree. The End.

[Hardcore troubadour 16,047]

Canseco was more exciting. Bonds was dull. When those A's teams of the late 80's and early 90's came to town Yankee stadium went nuts. And the Yanks sucked then and weren't drawing. But when that show came around it was a lot of fun . The right field bleachers used to torture Canseco. Good times.

[Hardcore troubadour 16,047]

If Edjr is slobbing Bonds knob, I am underneath working the ballz. I think Bonds is the GOAT by a decent margin, getting shafted by the league big time.

GOAT? Not by a decent margin. Not by any margin.

[tanatastic 2,062]

GOAT? Not by a decent margin. Not by any margin.

• 14× All-Star (1990, 1992–1998, 2000–2004,2007)
• 7× NL MVP (1990, 1992, 1993, 2001–2004)
• 8× Gold Glove Award (1990–1994, 1996–1998)
• 12× Silver Slugger Award (1990–1994, 1996, 1997, 2000–2004)
• 3× NL Hank Aaron Award (2001, 2002, 2004)
• 2× NL batting champion (2002, 2004)
• 2× NL home run leader (1993, 2001)
• NL RBI leader (1993)
• Home Run Derby champion (1996)

MLB Records

• 762 career home runs
• 73 home runs in a season
• 2,558 career walks
• 688 career intentional walks

 

Its open and shut really. 7x NL mvp?! 8 gold gloves...

[Hardcore troubadour 16,047]

 

• 14× All-Star (1990, 19921998, 20002004,2007)
• 7× NL MVP (1990, 1992, 1993, 20012004)
• 8× Gold Glove Award (19901994, 19961998)
• 12× Silver Slugger Award (19901994, 1996, 1997, 20002004)
• 3× NL Hank Aaron Award (2001, 2002, 2004)
• 2× NL batting champion (2002, 2004)
• 2× NL home run leader (1993, 2001)
• NL RBI leader (1993)
• Home Run Derby champion (1996)

MLB Records

• 762 career home runs
• 73 home runs in a season
• 2,558 career walks
• 688 career intentional walks

Its open and shut really. 7x NL mvp?! 8 gold gloves...</p>

How many wins did he have as a pitcher? And how did he pitch in the world series? And why are you leaving out his RBI's amd batting average?

[tanatastic 2,062]

How many wins did he have as a pitcher? And how did he pitch in the world series?

[Willis McGahee's Dentist 61]

 

i've heard everything now

I'll simplify it for you. If teams like the Yankees or Red Sox would have thought that signing Bonds could give them a better chance to win the division, league, and/or World Series, they would have signed him. Period. He was out of baseball for the same reason that Terrell Owens was out of football when he was. And the same reason Johnny Manziel won't get signed by anyone. There were receivers in the league who weren't as good as Owens. Ands there are third string quarterbacks who Manziel could be better than. But at some point, the talent-to-distraction ratio no longer works in your favor. Bonds had reached that point.

[edjr 7,038]

I'll simplify it for you. If teams like the Yankees or Red Sox would have thought that signing Bonds could give them a better chance to win the division, league, and/or World Series, they would have signed him.

 

 

they already had their DH.

 

HTH

[Willis McGahee's Dentist 61]

 

 

they already had their DH.

 

HTH

[Kopy 596]

Canseco might be a huge egomaniac, and a d1ckhead. But did he ever actually lie about anything?

I don't follow bball to closely anymore, and haven't in decades now. So this is no trolling, and a serious question on my part.

[Cruzer 1,996]

Canseco might be a huge egomaniac, and a d1ckhead. But did he ever actually lie about anything?

I don't follow bball to closely anymore, and haven't in decades now. So this is no trolling, and a serious question on my part.

I'm sure he told a chick or two that his c0ck was still solid, didn't shrink with the juice.

[Willis McGahee's Dentist 61]

Canseco might be a huge egomaniac, and a d1ckhead. But did he ever actually lie about anything?

I don't follow bball to closely anymore, and haven't in decades now. So this is no trolling, and a serious question on my part.

No. Canseco was probably considered a rat by a lot of players, but he blew the lid off the whole steroid story. If not for him, the Hall of Fame would be littered with cheaters. I consider him a hero.

[edjr 7,038]

No. Canseco was probably considered a rat by a lot of players, but he blew the lid off the whole steroid story. If not for him, the Hall of Fame would be littered with cheaters. I consider him a hero.

 

Wasn't Ken Caminiti the 1st?

 

http://www.si.com/mlb/2014/09/09/totally-juiced-tom-verducci-ken-caminiti-si-60

 

 

 

 

June 3, 2002 issue, in which Tom Verducci spoke to former National League MVP Ken Caminiti and others about the ongoing steroids problem in baseball.

Arizona Diamondbacks righthander Curt Schilling thinks twice before giving a teammate the traditional slap on the butt for a job well-done. "I'll pat guys on the ass, and they'll look at me and go, 'Don't hit me there, man. It hurts,'" Schilling says. "That's because that's where they shoot the steroid needles."

The Texas Rangers were packing their gear after the final game of a road series last year when a player accidentally knocked over a small carry bag by his locker. Several vials of steroids spilled out and rolled on the clubhouse carpet. The player, hardly embarrassed or concerned, gave a slight chuckle and scooped them up. No one else in the room showed any surprise.

Steroid use, which a decade ago was considered a taboo violated by a few renegade sluggers, is now so rampant in baseball that even pitchers and wispy outfielders are juicing up--and talking openly among themselves about it. According to players, trainers and executives interviewed by SI over the last three months, the game has become a pharmacological trade show. What emerges from dozens of interviews is a portrait of baseball's intensifying reliance on steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs. These drugs include not only human growth hormone (hGH) but also an array of legal and illegal stimulants, ranging from amphetamines to Ritalin to ephedrine-laced dietary supplements, that many big leaguers pop to get a jolt of pregame energy and sharpen their focus (box, page 38). But it is the use of illegal steroids that is growing fastest and having a profound impact on the game.

The surest sign that steroids are gaining acceptance in baseball: the first public admission of steroid use--without remorse--by a prominent former player. Ken Caminiti, whose 15-year big league career ended after a stint with the Atlanta Braves last season, revealed to SI that he won the 1996 National League Most Valuable Player award while on steroids he purchased from a pharmacy in Tijuana, Mexico. Spurred to try the drugs by concern over a shoulder injury in early '96, Caminiti said that his steroid use improved his performance noticeably and became more sophisticated over the next five seasons. He told SI that he used steroids so heavily in '96 that by the end of that season, his testicles shrank and retracted; doctors found that his body had virtually stopped producing its own testosterone and that his level of the hormone had fallen to 20% of normal. "It took four months to get my nuts to drop on their own," he said of the period after he stopped taking the drugs.

Yet Caminiti, a recovering alcoholic and former drug user, defended his use of steroids and said he would not discourage others from taking them because they have become a widely accepted--even necessary--choice for ballplayers looking for a competitive edge and financial security. "I've made a ton of mistakes," said Caminiti. "I don't think using steroids is one of them.

"It's no secret what's going on in baseball. At least half the guys are using steroids. They talk about it. They joke about it with each other. The guys who want to protect themselves or their image by lying have that right. Me? I'm at the point in my career where I've done just about every bad thing you can do. I try to walk with my head up. I don't have to hold my tongue. I don't want to hurt teammates or friends. But I've got nothing to hide.

"If a young player were to ask me what to do," Caminiti continued, "I'm not going to tell him it's bad. Look at all the money in the game: You have a chance to set your family up, to get your daughter into a better school.... So I can't say, 'Don't do it,' not when the guy next to you is as big as a house and he's going to take your job and make the money."

Anabolic steroids elevate the body's testosterone level, increasing muscle mass without changes in diet or activity, though their effect is greatly enhanced in conjunction with proper nutrition and strength training. Steroids are illegal in the U.S. unless prescribed by a physician for medical conditions, such as AIDS and hypogonadism (an inability to produce enough testosterone). Studies have shown that the side effects from steroids can include heart and liver damage, persistent endocrine-system imbalance, elevated cholesterol levels, strokes, aggressive behavior and the dysfunction of genitalia. Doctors suspect that steroid use is a major factor in the recent increase in baseball injuries, especially severe injuries such as complete muscle tears.

Unlike the NFL and NBA, both of which ban and test for steroid use--the NHL does neither--Major League Baseball has no steroid policy or testing program for big leaguers. (Baseball does test minor league players, but violators are neither penalized nor required to undergo counseling.) Any such program would have to be collectively bargained with the Major League Baseball Players Association, which traditionally has resisted any form of drug testing but now faces a division in its membership over this issue. "Part of our task is to let a consensus emerge," says Gene Orza, the associate general counsel for the players union.

 

[Willis McGahee's Dentist 61]

Then he's another hero

[edjr 7,038]

Then he's another hero

 

 

3 years before Caneco's book. Caminiti was doing it for the right reasons, as well as having no friends and hating everyone.

 

Canseco did it to make money. hardly a hero

[Hardcore troubadour 16,047]

Caminiti died in a shithole apt in the south Bronx.